Dual XP boots problems

[user]

I'm having difficulty getting two XP partitions to boot and be completely
independent of each other. Would appreciate someone's help/ideas.

I have the following:

HD0: (60gb)
- XP pro (4gb Fat32)
- unused (11gb)
- W98 boot (10gb Fat32)
- Data (20gb)
- unused(15)

HD1: (10gb)
- W98 boot (5gb fat32)
- Data (5gb fat32)

I want to replace the W98 on HD0 with XP pro (ntfs). I don't want the new
XP to know about the other boot partitions. So what I did was:

1. delete W98 (HD0)
2. delete XP pro (HD0)
3. delete W98 (HD1)
4. install XP (ntfs) on HD0 making it C:
5. boot XP (ntfs) to verify it works
6. slide XP (ntfs) to the right using PartitionMagic
7. change the xp(ntfs) boot.ini to say .... partition(2)
8. restore the XP 4gb fat32 to HD0 partition 1
9. restore the W98 (5gb fat32) to HD1
10. make XP (4gb fat32) active, hide the other bootable partitions and reboot

This is where it gets strange. When XP (4gb fat32) is booted, it somehow
picks up pieces of the new XP ntfs partition. I.e., I will see the
desktop of the XP fat32 but with the background screen of the XP ntfs. Or
if I add a new user to the XP ntfs partition, the same new user shows up
on the login Welcome screen of the XP fat32 part.

My ultimate goal is to have 2 independent bootable XP partitions managed
by BootMagic. I've successfully done a lot of different bootable
configurations, using multiple W98s with and without an XP partition, but
when a 2nd XP is thrown in it gets ugly. Can anyone enlighten me?. Thanks

Bruce

 

[I'm Dan]

I'm having difficulty getting two XP partitions to boot and be
completely independent of each other. Would appreciate
someone's help/ideas.

I have the following:

HD0: (60gb)
- XP pro (4gb Fat32)
- unused (11gb)
- W98 boot (10gb Fat32)
- Data (20gb)
- unused(15)

HD1: (10gb)
- W98 boot (5gb fat32)
- Data (5gb fat32)

I want to replace the W98 on HD0 with XP pro (ntfs). I
don't want the new XP to know about the other boot
partitions. So what I did was:

1. delete W98 (HD0)
2. delete XP pro (HD0)
3. delete W98 (HD1)
4. install XP (ntfs) on HD0 making it C:
5. boot XP (ntfs) to verify it works
6. slide XP (ntfs) to the right using PartitionMagic
7. change the xp(ntfs) boot.ini to say .... partition(2)
8. restore the XP 4gb fat32 to HD0 partition 1
9. restore the W98 (5gb fat32) to HD1
10. make XP (4gb fat32) active, hide the other bootable
partitions and reboot

This is where it gets strange. When XP (4gb fat32) is
booted, it somehow picks up pieces of the new XP
ntfs partition. I.e., I will see the desktop of the XP
fat32 but with the background screen of the XP ntfs.
Or if I add a new user to the XP ntfs partition, the
same new user shows up on the login Welcome
screen of the XP fat32 part.

My ultimate goal is to have 2 independent bootable
XP partitions managed by BootMagic. I've successfully
done a lot of different bootable configurations, using
multiple W98s with and without an XP partition, but
when a 2nd XP is thrown in it gets ugly. Can anyone
enlighten me?. Thanks

The "strange" stuff is quite predictable when two installations become
scrambled from cloning. In fact, that's one of the tests to see if you've
got things scrambled -- change the wallpaper under one boot and see if it
also changes the other boot.

You left out some background info. Implicit in your outline is that you
must have earlier made images of the XP/4GB and W98/5GB partitions, but you
haven't said how those installations were originally created, if they worked
properly before, and if the XP/4GB, when originally installed, set itself up
as C: or some other drive letter.

Nevertheless, I'm going to zero in on what I see as obvious red flags --
steps 6 and 7.

Step 6 problem: XP remembers assigned drive letters by recording in the
registry a list of partition "signatures" and associating them with drive
letters. The signature is derived, in part, from the starting sector number
of the subject partition. So, in step 4 you installed XP2 at the beginning
of the disk (usually, LBA sector #63), and XP2 would record in its registry
that drive C: begins at sector 63. Then in step 6 you slide XP2 to a new
starting sector, but the registry still thinks C: begins at sector 63. In
step 8 you put XP1 at the beginning -- sector 63. Now when XP2 boots, lo
and behold, there is a partition at sector 63 so XP2 calls that C:, just
like it "remembered", and your boot is scrambled.

The solution is to make XP2 forget its drive letter assignments and redo the
partition signatures. XP should do that automatically if during bootup it
discovers there is no partition matching its remembered signatures. You can
force XP2 to do that if you reboot into XP2 between steps 6 and 7. XP2
should notice there is no partition at sector 63 anymore and re-record drive
C: as being at the new partition location. Then when you get to step 8, XP2
won't be confused about where C: is anymore.

Step 7 problem: The entries in the partition table do not always appear in
the same order as the physical partitions on the disk. In fact, they
usually appear in the order they were created. Partition Magic (like most
tools) does not re-order the partition table when new partitions are
created. Thus, when XP2 was installed in step 4, its partition was listed
in slot 1 of the partition table. By the time you get to step 8, the
partition location is different but it's still entry #1 in the partition
table, while XP1 becomes entry #2. Boot.ini uses the order in the partition
table, not the physical order of the partitions themselves. Thus, XP2's
boot.ini still needs to point to "...partition(1)..." and XP1's boot.ini
needs to be "partition(2)". In step 7, you effectively told XP2 to boot the
XP1 partition instead. Try fixing the two boot.ini's so they point to the
right partitions.

Note that Partition Magic won't show you this partition-ordering anomaly
because it rearranges the display so it's easier for you to understand, but
you can confirm this is what has happened by using ptedit.exe, which you'll
find on the PM CD. Copy ptedit to a floppy or some place convenient, then
run it from a DOS/Win98 boot (either a boot floppy, or boot into the W98
partition -- I don't think it will run under XP). Ptedit will open up
showing you the actual partition table and its four entries. Look at the
starting cylinder locations and you'll probably find that partitions 1 and 2
are reversed. That's not a problem, as long as you point boot.ini to the
right entry.

 

[user]

The "strange" stuff is quite predictable when two installations become
scrambled from cloning. In fact, that's one of the tests to see if you've
got things scrambled -- change the wallpaper under one boot and see if it
also changes the other boot.

You left out some background info. Implicit in your outline is that you
must have earlier made images of the XP/4GB and W98/5GB partitions, but you
haven't said how those installations were originally created, if they worked
properly before, and if the XP/4GB, when originally installed, set itself up
as C: or some other drive letter.

Yes, I used Drive Image (DI) to backup the XP/4GB and W98/5GB partitions
prior to starting this. I used DI to do the restores (steps 8, 9).
W98/5GB was originally created on HD0 and moved to HD1. XP/4GB was
originally newly installed on HD0 as drive C:. Both worked properly.

Nevertheless, I'm going to zero in on what I see as obvious red flags --
steps 6 and 7.

Step 6 problem: XP remembers assigned drive letters by recording in the
registry a list of partition "signatures" and associating them with drive
letters. The signature is derived, in part, from the starting sector number
of the subject partition. So, in step 4 you installed XP2 at the beginning
of the disk (usually, LBA sector #63), and XP2 would record in its registry
that drive C: begins at sector 63. Then in step 6 you slide XP2 to a new
starting sector, but the registry still thinks C: begins at sector 63. In
step 8 you put XP1 at the beginning -- sector 63. Now when XP2 boots, lo
and behold, there is a partition at sector 63 so XP2 calls that C:, just
like it "remembered", and your boot is scrambled.

I neglected to say XP2 was booted after step 6 to verify it could boot
successfully after the slide over. So there should be a step "6a - boot
XP2" in my list. However thank you for the explanation on why this needs
to be done.

The solution is to make XP2 forget its drive letter assignments and redo the
partition signatures. XP should do that automatically if during bootup it
discovers there is no partition matching its remembered signatures. You can
force XP2 to do that if you reboot into XP2 between steps 6 and 7. XP2
should notice there is no partition at sector 63 anymore and re-record drive
C: as being at the new partition location. Then when you get to step 8, XP2
won't be confused about where C: is anymore.

Step 7 problem: The entries in the partition table do not always appear in
the same order as the physical partitions on the disk. In fact, they
usually appear in the order they were created. Partition Magic (like most
tools) does not re-order the partition table when new partitions are
created. Thus, when XP2 was installed in step 4, its partition was listed
in slot 1 of the partition table. By the time you get to step 8, the
partition location is different but it's still entry #1 in the partition
table, while XP1 becomes entry #2. Boot.ini uses the order in the partition
table, not the physical order of the partitions themselves. Thus, XP2's
boot.ini still needs to point to "...partition(1)..." and XP1's boot.ini
needs to be "partition(2)". In step 7, you effectively told XP2 to boot the
XP1 partition instead. Try fixing the two boot.ini's so they point to the
right partitions.

Note that Partition Magic won't show you this partition-ordering anomaly
because it rearranges the display so it's easier for you to understand, but
you can confirm this is what has happened by using ptedit.exe, which you'll
find on the PM CD. Copy ptedit to a floppy or some place convenient, then
run it from a DOS/Win98 boot (either a boot floppy, or boot into the W98
partition -- I don't think it will run under XP). Ptedit will open up
showing you the actual partition table and its four entries. Look at the
starting cylinder locations and you'll probably find that partitions 1 and 2
are reversed. That's not a problem, as long as you point boot.ini to the
right entry.

Aha! This explains why after the last step, PM showed XP/4GB as primary
#1 and XP2 as primary #2 but BootMagic showed XP2 as Pri-1 and XP/4GB as
Pri-2. This confused me. I believed PM when BM had the right info.

Thank you for taking the time for explaining in detail. I will try the
install again and report back.

Bruce

 

[user]

Yes, I used Drive Image (DI) to backup the XP/4GB and W98/5GB partitions
prior to starting this. I used DI to do the restores (steps 8, 9).
W98/5GB was originally created on HD0 and moved to HD1. XP/4GB was
originally newly installed on HD0 as drive C:. Both worked properly.


I neglected to say XP2 was booted after step 6 to verify it could boot
successfully after the slide over. So there should be a step "6a - boot
XP2" in my list. However thank you for the explanation on why this needs
to be done.



Aha! This explains why after the last step, PM showed XP/4GB as primary
#1 and XP2 as primary #2 but BootMagic showed XP2 as Pri-1 and XP/4GB as
Pri-2. This confused me. I believed PM when BM had the right info.

Thank you for taking the time for explaining in detail. I will try the
install again and report back.

Bruce

Dan,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! With your help I was able to install 2
independent XP C: drive bootable partitions! Can't thank you enough.

The last piece to the puzzle was understanding the relationship of the
boot.ini "..partition(x)" entry vs the relative location in the partition
table, not the location of the partition itself.

Many moons ago when I was researching multi-boot partitions I came a
cross a site that gave very clear and excellent info on how to set up
multiple boot partitions using XP, W98, NT, etc. I believe the author's
name was Dan. Unfortunately I lost the url. However your email id kind of
triggered something. Did I come across your site?

Again many thanks ... "I'm Dan" said Dan I am!

 

[I'm Dan]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! With your help I was able to
install 2 independent XP C: drive bootable partitions! Can't thank
you enough.

The last piece to the puzzle was understanding the relationship
of the boot.ini "..partition(x)" entry vs the relative location in the
partition table, not the location of the partition itself.

Many moons ago when I was researching multi-boot partitions
I came a cross a site that gave very clear and excellent info on
how to set up multiple boot partitions using XP, W98, NT, etc.
I believe the author's name was Dan. Unfortunately I lost the url.
However your email id kind of triggered something. Did I come
across your site?

Well, I have had a special page (www.goodells.net/multiboot) on my website
for a little over a year now, but I don't know if that's "many moons ago"
and it's never explicitly addressed NT, so I guess it must have been someone
else.

I'm glad you were able to get it all sorted out.

 

[user]

Well, I have had a special page (www.goodells.net/multiboot) on my website
for a little over a year now, but I don't know if that's "many moons ago"
and it's never explicitly addressed NT, so I guess it must have been someone
else.

I'm glad you were able to get it all sorted out.

That's the one! Going into my bookmarks right now. Have a good holiday.

Bruce