Dual boot Win98 / XP

[google3luo359]

I will be purchasing a new desktop system shortly and like 99% of new
systems, WinXP will be pre-installed on it. I learned that only a WinXP
recovery CD will be provided.

I have Win98 on my current system with my Win '98 installation CD.

So my question to start is very simple. Can I install a dual boot
system on my new computer,
WinXP + Win98?

If so what steps in general would I need to take to accomplish this?

TIA Ric

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I will be purchasing a new desktop system shortly and like 99% of new
systems, WinXP will be pre-installed on it. I learned that only a WinXP
recovery CD will be provided.

I have Win98 on my current system with my Win '98 installation CD.

So my question to start is very simple. Can I install a dual boot
system on my new computer,
WinXP + Win98?

If so what steps in general would I need to take to accomplish this?

TIA Ric

Unless you have a number of suitable tools to manipulate
your partitions and play with disk images, this is not a
simple affair. In your case the easiest way might be to
install Win98 using Virtual PC under WinXP. I believe
it is now free.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

 

[Dan]

I will be purchasing a new desktop system shortly and like 99% of new
systems, WinXP will be pre-installed on it. I learned that only a WinXP
recovery CD will be provided.

I have Win98 on my current system with my Win '98 installation CD.

So my question to start is very simple. Can I install a dual boot
system on my new computer,
WinXP + Win98?

If so what steps in general would I need to take to accomplish this?

TIA Ric

There are limits to what Virtual Machine can do. I know that the amount
of video memory that it can use is limited. I dual-boot with a Pentium
4 2.4 Ghz. and I have two hard drives and XP PRO. is in NTFS and 98SE is
in Fat32. I like 98SE for use with older programs and it is a very nice
operating system. I have cross-posted with the Windows 98 general
newsgroup so you can get more answers.

 

[Guest]

Hi Ric:

This can certainly be done. However, if this is your first experience with
XP, you may find that you will not use the '98 very much.

An alternative to what you suggest would be to place all your data from the
old system into a folder named "Old win98 stuff" (or similar). It would then
be accessible to XP and you would not have to change any partitions, etc..
Also, XP will allow you to install and run any of your old '98 compatible
programs (except for really old DOS stuff).

If you really want to have a '98/XP dual boot (I had one for years but
rarely used it), the general steps would follow one of two paths:

Recommended: Obtain a third-party partitioning software that has a boot
manager and learn the instructions and caveats well since modifying
partitions is rather invasive and can be downright destructive. Partition
Magic is one. There are others.

OR

Try to install the dual boot using the XP and '98 install disks. This gets
a bit complicated since '98 would want to install onto C: as default. You
can try to force it to install to another drive (which you would have to
create somehow) but it might falter during installation or subsequently
during operations with other '98 applications (which probably would prefer C:
as well). Also, '98 can't read NTFS which is 99.99% likely the file system
your new unit came with. It would be like a wino on Jesus Juice seeing God.

Therefore, in my mind, the most "pristine" way to do this without
third-partyware would be to set the boot order to CD, insert the '98 install
disk and let it re-format the C: drive to its tastes (you will lose all data
previously on C. After installing '98, insert the XP CD. Contact the
manufacturer of your new unit to see if the "recovery CD" would be compatible
for this purpose. Read all prompts and warnings carefully during
installation. XP will "see" the existing O/S, recognize it as a cousin,
create a new NTFS partition for itself (probably D: or F, automatically
dance around '98 during installation and even create a boot menu which you
will see at startup.

Whew!! I hope someone else has a shorter-winded and better advice for you.

Happy computing.

Mark

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I will be purchasing a new desktop system shortly and like 99% of new
systems, WinXP will be pre-installed on it. I learned that only a WinXP
recovery CD will be provided.

I have Win98 on my current system with my Win '98 installation CD.

So my question to start is very simple. Can I install a dual boot
system on my new computer,
WinXP + Win98?

If so what steps in general would I need to take to accomplish this?

TIA Ric

I thought of another option that requires no commercial tools:
Ask your friendly computer dealer for an old hard disk
(2 or 4 GBytes would do very nicely), to be used for your
Win98 installation. Installing multi-booting in this environment
is not very hard. Post again if you intend to follow this path.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

I will be purchasing a new desktop system shortly and like 99% of new
systems, WinXP will be pre-installed on it. I learned that only a WinXP
recovery CD will be provided.

I have Win98 on my current system with my Win '98 installation CD.

So my question to start is very simple. Can I install a dual boot
system on my new computer,
WinXP + Win98?

If so what steps in general would I need to take to accomplish this?

TIA Ric

If your C: drive is formatted using the FAT32 file system, MS-MVP
Doug Knox has kindly provided clear instructions:

Install Windows 98 after XP is Installed.
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_9x.htm

Otherwise:

The simplest way I've found to dual boot between Win9x/Me and WinXP
would be to partition your drive(s) roughly as follows:

C: Primary FAT32 Win9x/Me/Legacy Apps
D: Extended NTFS WinXP/Modern Apps

Adjust the partition sizes according to your actual hard drive(s)
size and the amount of space you'd like to allocate to each OS and its
applications.

Create the partitions using Win9x's FDISK so you can enable large
disk support (FAT32). (No need for 3rd party partitioning
utilities/boot managers and their frequent complications.)

Install Win9x/Me first, being sure to select "C:\Windows" (or
D:\Windows, if you prefer) when asked for the default Windows
directory. When you subsequently install WinXP, be sure to specify
"D:\Winnt" (or "D:\Windows," "C:\Winnt" as referred/applicable) when
asked for the default Windows directory, to place it in the other
partition. The WinXP installation routine will automatically set up a
Multi-boot menu for you. The default settings for this menu can be
readily edited from within WinXP. NOTE: If you elect to place
Win9x/Me on the "D:" drive, you'll _have_ to leave the "C:" drive as
FAT32.

This method can be adapted to using 2 physical hard drives by
placing the boot partition (C:, which still must be FAT32) and either
of the operating systems on the Primary Master hard drive, and the
second operating system on the second hard drive.

It is also possible to have a 3rd partition for shared
applications, but it would be necessary for such a partition to be
formatted in the common file format (FAT32). The applications would
also have to be installed into each OS (to ensure proper system file
placement and registry updates), one at a time, but the bulk of the
program files could be located on this common partition. I do not,
however, actually recommend doing this as, if you were to uninstall
such an application from one OS, you may not be able to gracefully
uninstall it from the second OS, having already deleted crucial
installation data during the first uninstall action.

Just about everything you need to know (URLs may wrap):

http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q217/2/10.ASP

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/using/howto/gettingstarted/multiboot.asp



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrum Russell

 

[Guest]

Cool !!! It might take some "custom" installing of old, old programs made
for '98 in order to point them toward something other than C: but that option
keeps '98 below the boot boundary and is probably a cheaper solution than
commercial partitionaing software. Yoooo smart

 

[Guest]

wow more good options. Respectufully, one ammendment Bruce. You probably
meant that, under the partition scenario you suggest, C: = FAT, D: = NTFS,
the '98 would have to install C: ONLY.

Now I have a question: If you install '98 to a second hdd, it installls
it's booty files before the boot boundary on that second hdd , right? and if
you install '98 on the first hdd BEFORE you install XP, '98 installs its
booty on the first hdd in the same fashion, clearly.

I know that XP is much less strict about boot boundaries and such: So, when
you install XP after '98, does XP bootstrap off the very same exact ini files
that '98 uses? or does it create some additional files which are pointed to
from the boot menu? if so, where are those files written? I guess this
would have implications only if the user at some point in the future decided
to lose the '98: would the FAT partition have to be retained in some form?
or could it be deleted or converted to NFTS without losing the bootstrap?

PS: Thanks for all the stuff I have learned here.

Mark

 

[Bruce Chambers]

wow more good options. Respectufully, one ammendment Bruce. You probably
meant that, under the partition scenario you suggest, C: = FAT, D: = NTFS,
the '98 would have to install C: ONLY.

Well, yes, that's what I said.

Now I have a question: If you install '98 to a second hdd, it installls
it's booty files before the boot boundary on that second hdd , right?

Regardless of where you install Win98's Windows folder, it must place
it's boot files on the Primary Active partition, which would be the C:
drive.

and if
you install '98 on the first hdd BEFORE you install XP, '98 installs its
booty on the first hdd in the same fashion, clearly.

I know that XP is much less strict about boot boundaries and such: So, when
you install XP after '98, does XP bootstrap off the very same exact ini files
that '98 uses?

Win9x doesn't use any *.ini files for booting, it uses the old,
standard MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM, etc. WinXP uses NTDETECT.COM, NTLDR,
and BOOT.INI.

or does it create some additional files which are pointed to
from the boot menu? if so, where are those files written?

WinXP will place Win98's boot files in BOOTSEC.DOS, to be called as
necessary by BOOT.INI when the user chooses to boot into Win98.

I guess this
would have implications only if the user at some point in the future decided
to lose the '98: would the FAT partition have to be retained in some form?

Yes, as WinXP's system files (BOOT.INI, NTDETECT.COM, and NTLDR are
still there; removing or formatting that partition would render WinXP
unbootable, as well.

or could it be deleted .....

Not easily, without having to then take complicated measures to repair
the WinXP boot process.

or converted to NFTS without losing the bootstrap?

That wouldn't hurt.

PS: Thanks for all the stuff I have learned here.

You're welcome.


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrum Russell

 

[Timothy Daniels]

If there is only one HD/partition visible when each OS is installed,
each OS will call its own partition "C:" when it is running, and it will
call the other OS's partition "D:" (or whatever letter is available).
In this way, any software that deamands to be installed on the "C:"
partition will be kept happy.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Jonny]

Extremely doubtful for suitable operation in 98 OS. Most likely, no driver
support for 98 for a current PC.

A "Win98 installation CD" can mean more than a generic installation OEM CD,
recovery, retail, or OEM. Which do you mean?

 

[Pegasus \(MVP\)]

I get the impression that you have sufficient information
from the various contributors to get you started. Unless
you say otherwise I won't spend the time to give you a
step-by-step recipe.

 

[John]

I will be purchasing a new desktop system shortly and like 99% of new
systems, WinXP will be pre-installed on it. I learned that only a WinXP
recovery CD will be provided.

Can I install a dual boot

system on my new computer,
WinXP + Win98?

If you ever had to re-install XP the recovery CD would wipe the drive
including W98, assuming you manage to get it installed on a computer
that most likely will only have one NTFS partition which W98 can't read.
The W98 installer would just want to format the drive because it can't
read it.

Honestly, XP is *way* better than W98, its not even close. Give XP an
honest try and I think you will see a major difference in quality and
stability.

John

 

[google3luo359]

I'd first like to thank all who have replied. You folks here are really
wonderful!

Unless you have a number of suitable tools to manipulate
your partitions and play with disk images, this is not a
simple affair. In your case the easiest way might be to
install Win98 using Virtual PC under WinXP. I believe
it is now free.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/virtualpc/default.mspx

Thanks I don't have any special tools so I will look into this
possibility!

Ric

 

[google3luo359]

Hi Ric:

This can certainly be done. However, if this is your first experience with
XP, you may find that you will not use the '98 very much.
... An alternative to what you suggest would be to place all your data from the
old system into a folder named "Old win98 stuff" (or similar). It would then
be accessible to XP and you would not have to change any partitions, etc..
Also, XP will allow you to install and run any of your old '98 compatible
programs (except for really old DOS stuff).

Thanks Mark. If WinXP will let me run all the apps I'm now running
under Win98 then I won't have any qualms about using WinXP exclusively.
So I suppose I should first try to install all my important apps in
WinXP and see if they run properly.

If you really want to have a '98/XP dual boot (I had one for years but
rarely used it), the general steps would follow one of two paths:

Recommended: Partition Magic is one. There are others.

I have PM. So this is a possibility.

OR

Try to install the dual boot using the XP and '98 install disks.

I don't see how this is different from using PM?
I'd still have to install from install disks if I went the PM route
wouldn't I?

Therefore, in my mind, the most "pristine" way to do this without
third-partyware would be to set the boot order to CD, insert the '98 install
disk and let it re-format the C: drive to its tastes (you will lose all data
previously on C. After installing '98, insert the XP CD. Contact the
manufacturer of your new unit to see if the "recovery CD" would be compatible
for this purpose.

This is really the key to my post. I wanted to know if a WinXP
recovery disk would allow me to install WinXP in a d: or e: partition,
leaving Win98 intact on c:.

Furthuremore, would this recovery CD do its thing on the c: drive to
install the boot menu to choose between Win98 and WinXP?

Ric

 

[google3luo359]

There are limits to what Virtual Machine can do. I know that the amount
of video memory that it can use is limited. I dual-boot with a Pentium
4 2.4 Ghz. and I have two hard drives and XP PRO. is in NTFS and 98SE is
in Fat32. I like 98SE for use with older programs and it is a very nice
operating system. I have cross-posted with the Windows 98 general
newsgroup so you can get more answers.

Thanks Dan.

 

[google3luo359]

I thought of another option that requires no commercial tools:
Ask your friendly computer dealer for an old hard disk
(2 or 4 GBytes would do very nicely), to be used for your
Win98 installation. Installing multi-booting in this environment
is not very hard. Post again if you intend to follow this path.

Thanks Peg for this idea.

First I will try to install my important Win98 apps on WinXP and see if
they run properly. If they do, then I may not need to have a dual boot
machine.

If I did need a dual boot I would first try to install Win98 on c: and
then WinXP recovery on d:

If that didn't work I might try two HD's but it would be a last resort
as it would add considerable noise to my work environment.

Ric

 

[google3luo359]

If your C: drive is formatted using the FAT32 file system, MS-MVP
Doug Knox has kindly provided clear instructions:

Install Windows 98 after XP is Installed.
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_9x.htm

NTFS would almost certainly be the format with WinXP.

Otherwise:

The simplest way I've found to dual boot between Win9x/Me and WinXP
would be to partition your drive(s) roughly as follows:

C: Primary FAT32 Win9x/Me/Legacy Apps
D: Extended NTFS WinXP/Modern Apps

Adjust the partition sizes according to your actual hard drive(s)
size and the amount of space you'd like to allocate to each OS and its
applications....

Thanks very much Bruce for these instructions!
As I mentioned in my previous replies I will first try to run all my
Win98 apps under WinXP and see if they will work properly. If so I
won't need a dual boot system afterall.
But If I do I will try your suggestions.

Thanks again!

Ric

 

[google3luo359]

Extremely doubtful for suitable operation in 98 OS. Most likely, no driver
support for 98 for a current PC.

A "Win98 installation CD" can mean more than a generic installation OEM CD,
recovery, retail, or OEM. Which do you mean?

Hi Jonny. Thanks for your reply!
I meant I have a Win98 retail CD.

Ric

 

[google3luo359]

If you ever had to re-install XP the recovery CD would wipe the drive
including W98, assuming you manage to get it installed on a computer
that most likely will only have one NTFS partition which W98 can't read.
The W98 installer would just want to format the drive because it can't
read it.

Honestly, XP is *way* better than W98, its not even close. Give XP an
honest try and I think you will see a major difference in quality and
stability.

John

Thanks John. I will try to see how XP handles my Win98 apps first.

Are you saying that if I installed Win98 and then tried to install from
the WinXP recovery CD onto d:, it would wipe out Win98?

Or are you saying that I could install both, but later on if I had to
re-install from the recovery CD it would wipe out Win98 on c: drive?

Ric