Does HP original ink smudge less than refill ink? Brand difference?

A

Aaron S

Does the ink in HP's original inkjet cartidge smudge less when wet than the
sort of ink usually used to refill the cartridge at home?

I have noticed that the refill ink I have been using in my HP inkjet
cartridge (ref: HP 26A) smears a lot if my documents get caught in the rain.
Maybe all inkjets are like this?

I wonder ... is the ink used by some printer manufacturers (Epson, HP,
Lexmark, etc) less likely to smear than the ink used by other manufacturers?
 
J

John

Does the ink in HP's original inkjet cartidge smudge less when wet than the
sort of ink usually used to refill the cartridge at home?

I have noticed that the refill ink I have been using in my HP inkjet
cartridge (ref: HP 26A) smears a lot if my documents get caught in the rain.
Maybe all inkjets are like this?

I wonder ... is the ink used by some printer manufacturers (Epson, HP,
Lexmark, etc) less likely to smear than the ink used by other manufacturers?

I dont know about the rain but there was article on Cnet and other
places a while ago that claimed refill inks were inferior though some
were defintely better than others. The manufacturers used this to
justify the ridiculous prices they charge for ink cartridges.

Ill take their word for it but Ive heard and Ive used refills that
were fine. However they said overall - the none official inks were
much worse , tended to smear and didnt last anywhere near as long as
the third party inks and some were supposedly really bad. They claimed
they clogged your print heads. However a few got decent remarks from
users in the article. I guess as long as you dont get the really bad
ones , find a place that uses a decent supplier - its defintely worth
it. If you need really high quality print outs that last then maybe
use a laser or the official inks which probably last longer but I dont
know about any rain test though. Thats a pretty tough test.

The worst inks they hinted were counterfeit stuff. They warned about a
huge rise in counterfeit cartridges that were really crappy , that
looked like HP , etc cartridges.
 
E

Edward W. Thompson

Does the ink in HP's original inkjet cartidge smudge less when wet than the
sort of ink usually used to refill the cartridge at home?

I have noticed that the refill ink I have been using in my HP inkjet
cartridge (ref: HP 26A) smears a lot if my documents get caught in the rain.
Maybe all inkjets are like this?

I wonder ... is the ink used by some printer manufacturers (Epson, HP,
Lexmark, etc) less likely to smear than the ink used by other manufacturers?


There may be different formulations but in general inks are water
soluable so when type is wetted it will be prone to smear until it is
thoroughly cured.
 
J

John

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:50:15 GMT, "(e-mail address removed)"

Make that :

However they said overall , non-official inks were
much worse , tended to smear and didnt last anywhere near as long as
the official inks and some were supposedly really bad.
 
J

jdj

Does the ink in HP's original inkjet cartidge smudge less when wet than the
sort of ink usually used to refill the cartridge at home?

I have noticed that the refill ink I have been using in my HP inkjet
cartridge (ref: HP 26A) smears a lot if my documents get caught in the rain.
Maybe all inkjets are like this?

Every single Hp inkjet I have ever used uses water-soluble ink. It all
smears, runs, bleeds, etc., when it gets wet.
I wonder ... is the ink used by some printer manufacturers (Epson, HP,
Lexmark, etc) less likely to smear than the ink used by other manufacturers?

Epson "DuraBright" inks do not smear or bleed when wet, after they have
dried. Some other Epson inks also do not bleed.

Some Canon photo inks also do not bleed, etc. when wet after drying.

Some refill inks for any printers also do not bleed when wet, after drying
first. Not all are like this, just some.

It seems that printer manufacturers are switching from inks that bleed,
smear, run, etc., when the paper gets wet.

=-=
 
D

Dorothy Bradbury

I use epson compatibles in my epson 1160 printer mainly due to large A3
volume (prj 2k charts, CAD charts, many large manuscripts) - an inkaholic.

o I notice once dry that they will withstand water from a tap
o The top layer smudges, but there is no smearing or loss of legibility

Q: Does that mean "prolonged" water content would not "dissolve the text"?

I ask because I have around 90,000 pages of work archived and so water
damage is always a concern. Laser text is robust, but can cost more/is-B&W.

I guess I'll have to do some tests. If it does it's get & reprint with a HP 4MV.
 
R

Ray.Milne

Dorothy Bradbury said:
I use epson compatibles in my epson 1160 printer mainly due to large A3
volume (prj 2k charts, CAD charts, many large manuscripts) - an inkaholic.

o I notice once dry that they will withstand water from a tap
o The top layer smudges, but there is no smearing or loss of legibility

Q: Does that mean "prolonged" water content would not "dissolve the text"?

I ask because I have around 90,000 pages of work archived and so water
damage is always a concern. Laser text is robust, but can cost
more/is-B&W.
Dorothy Bradbury

Dorothy, I have the same printer, and also use compatible inks, get mine
from Viking. Have printed out Rally Stage plans, plus maps for setting up
crews etc. Have found that the paper will have to get very soggy before
the ink does anything. Have also used printed paper as beer mats, and it's
stood up to that as well.

Ray.
 
C

CBFalconer

Dorothy said:
.... snip ...

I ask because I have around 90,000 pages of work archived and so
water damage is always a concern. Laser text is robust, but can
cost more/is-B&W.

Actually laser operation is much cheaper than ink jets. You can
get the printers for as little as USD 199, printing is faster, no
smudges, and no gyrations with printers that claim they are out of
ink to force you to buy more. Also the jets don't clog. The
penalty is no color printing without considerable added expense.
 
J

jdj

I use epson compatibles in my epson 1160 printer mainly due to large A3
volume (prj 2k charts, CAD charts, many large manuscripts) - an
inkaholic.

o I notice once dry that they will withstand water from a tap o The top
layer smudges, but there is no smearing or loss of legibility

Q: Does that mean "prolonged" water content would not "dissolve the
text"?

It is impossible to tell one way or the other. All inks are not the same.
Vendors have been known to switch ink sources without telling anyone, too.

The best way to find out is to test your ink.

I tested with tap water for the ordinary and distilled water to simulate
rain. I tested for a little over 24 hours with black and colour text and
images at fine resolutions and let the prints dry for an hour in 30%
humidity.

In those tests, the "Durabright" ink only smudged when physically rubbed
while wet. The ink did appear to bleed but the apparent bleeding
disappeared when the paper dried.

I also tested for bleaching in sunlight and longwave UV over 9 days making
three sets of prints and keeping one in the dark then comparing them.
There was negligible bleaching, barely noticeable, unlike the HP inks.
I ask because I have around 90,000 pages of work archived and so water
damage is always a concern. Laser text is robust, but can cost
more/is-B&W.

Laser print also has it's own problems. The biggest one is fusing to
plastic surfaces it's placed in contact with and to print on facing pages.

I have a lot of archival material that was laser printed or
xerographically produced and I find that print is stuck to loose-leaf
binders, to facing printed pages and sometimes even to blank facing pages.

In the oldest archive, all the xerographic docs are stuck to each other
and the image is lifting from the page. The xerographic docs are not quite
35 years old.

I've only had the "durabright" ink printer for a year but I have none of
the problems I've had with laser and xerographic print. Indeed, it has
quite a few advantages over laser.

Laser and xerographic print uses super fine styrene powder to produce the
image. This material, even after being fused to paper and allowed to cure,
still sticks to other things, especially plastics and itself. It also
seems to like to flake and peel at times.
I guess I'll have to do some tests. If it does it's get & reprint with a
HP 4MV.

You may also consider testing inks from other sources as well.

=-=
(note: "Durabright" is a trademark of Epson USA. It may have a different
name in the rest of the world.)
 
K

kony

Laser and xerographic print uses super fine styrene powder to produce the
image. This material, even after being fused to paper and allowed to cure,
still sticks to other things, especially plastics and itself. It also
seems to like to flake and peel at times.

Yes/no/maybe... that can have a bit to do with what paper is
used, and it wouldn't be surprising if laser toner has
evolved in the past 35 years.

I do sometimes note plastic (vinyl?) binders have some toner
transfer to them, but of several decade-or-so old home laser
printed pages, none have transferred to other pages, peeled,
or flaked, AFAIK. Even those that transferred to the vinyl
binder did so only on the outer surface of the toner, the
image itself is still solid black.
 
J

jdj

Yes/no/maybe... that can have a bit to do with what paper is used, and
it wouldn't be surprising if laser toner has evolved in the past 35
years.
Toner may have evolved but it still smells like styrene. A big print job can
really stink things up.

Paper quality is indeed important but transfer still does occur with the
best laser paper.
I do sometimes note plastic (vinyl?) binders have some toner transfer to
them, but of several decade-or-so old home laser printed pages, none
have transferred to other pages, peeled, or flaked, AFAIK. Even those
that transferred to the vinyl binder did so only on the outer surface of
the toner, the image itself is still solid black.

Looseleaf binders are typically covered with vinyl.

GIve it some time, it will happen. If any prints are archived, check them
again in a few years.

I have some 12 year old laser 2-sided print that has been left alone since
it was bound. The pages are stuck together. The print lifts as the pages
are separated. The paper came from Xerox.
 
D

Dorothy Bradbury

Ray.Milne said:
Dorothy, I have the same printer, and also use compatible inks, get mine
from Viking. Have printed out Rally Stage plans, plus maps for setting up
crews etc. Have found that the paper will have to get very soggy before
the ink does anything. Have also used printed paper as beer mats, and it's
stood up to that as well.

Great, thanks for that info.
Reading pace notes is definately good test of quality :)

Will do some testing.
 
D

Dorothy Bradbury

Lasers can be cheaper, but with compatibles it gets quite close:
o The 1160 uses non-chipped 1520 inkjet cartridges
o As such black can be had for £1.99 in qty - and does ~500pgs
o So 8,000pgs is about £32

Of course the limit with epson inkjets is, famed-clogged aside, the waste
ink tank which effectively ends the life of the printer at some stage. So that
needs to be factored into the price as well - lasers have far higher duty cycles.

So far Samsung haven't done a £50-special A3 laser - although I'm not sure
their physical construction could withstand that form-factor re lettuce leaf :)
Their drivers do allow 50% shrinkage from A3 to A4, so must try for archiving.

Samsung also have a remove-bung-add-toner refill capability to factor in, not
many laser printers still allow that easy method v cornering with a black-n-decker.

Thanks.
 
K

kony

Looseleaf binders are typically covered with vinyl.

GIve it some time, it will happen. If any prints are archived, check them
again in a few years.

I have some 12 year old laser 2-sided print that has been left alone since
it was bound. The pages are stuck together. The print lifts as the pages
are separated. The paper came from Xerox.

That's just it, I'm sure many of the pages are at least 12
years old, and they aren't sticking together. Although I
mentioned the ones sticking to vinyl, darn near anything
will stick to vinyl, has nothing to do with it being laser
printed, styrene toner, etc. Your results may vary from
others'.
 
L

[L.]

The new issue of PCPLus (222 -November 2004) has an article on
durability of printed documents. Might make a useful read at your
local WHSmith.

HIH

Lorenz
 
L

[L.]

Samsung also have a remove-bung-add-toner refill capability to factor in, not
many laser printers still allow that easy method v cornering with a black-n-decker.

One factor that limits the refillability of laser cartridges is the
waste toner reservoir.

On my HP Laserjet 6L I'm already on the 6th refill without any
noticeable loss of quality, but I cut a hole on the location of the
waste toner and empty it at every fill.

Lorenz

PS B&D is definitely overkill. A heated-up apple corer works wonders,
with duck tape to seal the holes.
 
D

Dorothy Bradbury

The new issue of PCPLus (222 -November 2004) has an article on
durability of printed documents. Might make a useful read at your
local WHSmith.

Thanks.
 
P

Panos Popadopalous

Aaron, please tell us how and why you are exposing your printouts to rain?

Do you lie on the grass in the rain and read them?

Do you take them in the shower to read?

Ever thought about putting them in a plastic protector?
 
P

Panos Popadopalous

Hi Ed!

Guess he likes to play with the printouts in the bathtub because he has no
rubber ducky!
 

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