Disk image software

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I wanted to dual boot XP and Win98. MS says install older MS OS first
and AFAIK I can't do that. I was allowed to create one XP image (blank
CDs were included). An XP restore from the CDs wipes the drive and
repartitions it with the original two partitions (XP and an XP restore
partition). Catch 22. . .
Lots of ways around these annoyances - so far they all seem to involve
spending more money. . .
Susan
Click to expand...

Or time! Susan, have you tried making a "slipstream" install from your
recovery CD's? I'm not too familiar with the end-product but it would
seem to me that, whilst incorporating service patches & the like, one
might be able to (re-)define partition settings.

regards,
-Sparky
 
Mel said:
Apparently MS's OEM licence is in conflict with EU law and UK consumer law though.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/08/selling_oem_windows_copies_you/
Click to expand...

ISTM the article made some good points. Microsoft is placing restrictions on resale that *should* be illegal everywhere. The MS OEM licence restrictions go well beyond the *advertised* goal of preventing piracy.

Susan
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Or time! Susan, have you tried making a "slipstream" install from your
recovery CD's? I'm not too familiar with the end-product but it would
seem to me that, whilst incorporating service patches & the like, one
might be able to (re-)define partition settings.
Click to expand...

Good idea. There is a slick program to slipstream SP's and create an
image with the OS already updated and ready to install. I've been
fumbling around with it, figuring everyway to mess up. I was intending
on pointing the program out after I understood better how it works. It
does work with an MS XP install CD and it "might" work with the flaky
image install CD's. For me it created an image with XP Pro (install)
updated to SP2. I haven't seen a way to apply other critical updates
yet, and I haven't had time to venture into the official forum yet
either.

AutoStreamer: 846k

http://www.littlbuger.info/winubcd/files/

If you can extract the files from your image CD, (Win install files
only) I think it possibly can create a REAL updated install CD for
you. I'll email you a directory listing if you want to see if you can
find the few directories needed.

On another note, I cannot see why you can't install XP, partition and
format them as required, and then install 98 on a FAT32 partition. If
not, Ranish and XOSL surely will work. They won't even know the other
exists.

Do you feel lucky?
 
Sparky said:
Or time! Susan, have you tried making a "slipstream" install from your
recovery CD's? I'm not too familiar with the end-product but it would
seem to me that, whilst incorporating service patches & the like, one
might be able to (re-)define partition settings.
Click to expand...

The legacy hardware is mostly installed. . . I need to find and learn several new apps to replace ones I can't use on this system. . .

Lots of time consuming things to do/try/learn about and not much time ATM. I'm not sure yet what gets wiped out with the various XP restore options - so need to make backup CDs before each experiment.

FWIW - the hard drive is repartitioned (my first exercise in partitioning).

I made some bootable CDs (also a first for me) but did not succeed in installing Win 98 on a repartitioned hard drive - had to reinstall XP to get a working system - repartitioned again after that reinstall - which nuked everything. . .

I installed a diskette drive yesterday (yet another first) so *might* be able to install Win 98 in the future. Linux coming soon I hope. . .

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
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Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
 
http://www.littlbuger.info/winubcd/files/

If you can extract the files from your image CD, (Win install files
only) I think it possibly can create a REAL updated install CD for
you. I'll email you a directory listing if you want to see if you can
find the few directories needed.

On another note, I cannot see why you can't install XP, partition and
format them as required, and then install 98 on a FAT32 partition. If
not, Ranish and XOSL surely will work. They won't even know the other
exists.

Do you feel lucky?
Click to expand...

Thanks REM - unfortunately ATM I have zero time - shouldn't be even writing this. More in a few days when RL demands aren't so pressing (FYI - *not* a crisis).

Susan
--
Posted to alt.comp.freeware
Search alt.comp.freeware (or read it online):
http://groups.google.no/groups?q=+group:alt.comp.freeware&hl=en
Pricelessware & ACF: http://www.pricelesswarehome.org
Pricelessware: http://www.pricelessware.org (not maintained)
 
Susan said:
AFAIK a preinstalled OS does suit *many* people (take it home, turn it
on and away you go). . . It's just that you and I are not among them.
Click to expand...

My latest machine (9-'04) from the BIG TEXAS outfit did come with a OEM CD.

I "demanded" it though I believe it is SOP. Not only did I want to
reformat (and obviously need to re-install) as I have my own odd way of
partiontioning a drive - - I discovered it had a 'hidden' utility
partition (diags and such). It wasn't the boot partition - - But after
I reformatted the whole thing? It was still there!!

I had to replace the MBR to get rid of it. Yeah, they had their
propriatary partition code and I had to take it out by had... (Why? I
don't know - But I couldn't wipe it out with any known formatting techinque)
The good news - the price was right. I have a computer that works. The
rest of the news is not so good. . .
I've thrown out about a dozen apps/trial versions so far - many tenacled
monsters - dunno how much crap they've left behind. . .
Click to expand...

Generally? If you wipe out the OS folders, not much is left behind.
Yeah, they 'are' your OS registry as well as everything you can see.
I wanted to dual boot XP and Win98. MS says install older MS OS first
and AFAIK I can't do that.
Click to expand...

Yes, XP uses differnt system/boot files - even W2k's are "older" and
should go in first -- But I had an easy time?
I simply copied the XP files over the W2k files and the boot.ini (one of
them) is always backed up in several places.

There are many work-arounds - But do you "need" 98?
I was allowed to create one XP image (blank
CDs were included). An XP restore from the CDs wipes the drive and
repartitions it with the original two partitions (XP and an XP restore
partition). Catch 22. . .
Click to expand...

Did you "ask" for a full copy of the OS (after the fact). See, that CD
will come in handy for more than a full re-install. Plus, one is able do
get out of fixes that don't require a full image. I'd give the
manufacturer a jingle, it can't hurt.
Lots of ways around these annoyances - so far they all seem to involve
spending more money. . .
Click to expand...

Nope, just time...You may not want to accept some of the XP defaults?
It's pretty easy (nad safe) to tweak.
Time spent here is well worth it---> http://tinyurl.com/3336
Thought that's a spcific page, the site is loaded.
I sent you to a nice rundown of the activation process and a couple of
files to back-up..."When things go wrong..."
 
seems that OEM Win XP licenses cannot be transferred - if the computer dies so does
the license for the OS.
This has been advertised as part of XP right from the beginning.
Change your PC, or more than three? significant items, and you have to
reregister. You should be able to ring MS and get the new registration
number from them.
Click to expand...

That's correct! A co-worker just reformatted his daughter's laptop...and
had to call MS to give them info, sn, etc., and they gave him a new # about
thirteen miles long! But now it's up, clean and working for her next year
in college, after a summer in Germany!
 
who are the primary users of Microsoft programs, such as Office and Word, to install one additional copy on their portable computers
for their exclusive use. This does not apply to product licenses that are acquired with the purchase of a computer. These OEM
licenses are single-use licenses that cannot be transferred to another computer. Windows XP can only be installed on a single
computer. A new license is required if you install and activate the product on a different computer.

Apparently MS's OEM licence is in conflict with EU law and UK consumer law though.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/08/selling_oem_windows_copies_you/

But would anyone fancy taking MS to court :)

Mel.
Click to expand...
It is also in conflict with Australian law. We just report them to the
ACCC.
 
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;302878#5j

<q>

Activation and Product Licensing Policies

Does MPA allow customers to install products on a portable
computer and on a desktop computer?

Consumers may use the terms of the product's EULA to determine if
this is allowed. Sometimes, the Microsoft EULA permits customers
who are the primary users of Microsoft programs, such as Office
and Word, to install one additional copy on their portable
computers for their exclusive use. This does not apply to product
licenses that are acquired with the purchase of a computer. These
OEM licenses are single-use licenses that cannot be transferred to
another computer. Windows XP can only be installed on a single
computer. A new license is required if you install and activate
the product on a different computer.

</q>

Thanks for proving my point about the additional limitations of
OEM licenses not being advertised. ;)
Click to expand...

Microsoft have issued several vague and/or contradictory statements
about their OEM licenses, IMO intentionally to cause confusion.

I use an OEM version of XP home, and here's the relevant part of my
eula.txt:

4. TRANSFER-Internal. You may move the Product to a different
Workstation Computer. After the transfer, you must
completely remove the Product from the former Workstation
Computer. Transfer to Third Party. The initial user of the
Product may make a one-time transfer of the Product to
another end user. The transfer has to include all
component parts, media, printed materials, this EULA, and
if applicable, the Certificate of Authenticity. The
transfer may not be an indirect transfer, such as a
consignment. Prior to the transfer, the end user receiving
the transferred Product must agree to all the EULA terms.
No Rental. You may not rent, lease, lend or provide
commercial hosting services to third parties with the
Product.

AFAICT, that is no different than the EULA for the retail version.

After reading quite a few Microsoft statements about their OEM
licenses, in which they claim various strange things about them, AFAIAC
I may do whatever I want[1] with my copy of WinXP home, and if they
have problems with it they can come find me and explain it all to me at
that point.

[1] And, no, I don't want to make copies of my OEM cd for friends to
use. ;)
 
Susan, I think this huge thread about the use of one's own copy of
Windows XP (Home in my case) is wishful thinking for many, and making
problems where there aren't any .. for others.

My personal experiences with three separate computers, all with XP Home:

I have balded the hard drives down to shiny bare metal, and reinstalled
from scratch many times with each computer. Each time, upon entering
in the proper Pass Key for each respective copy of Win XP on its own
separate computer .. the installations went perfectly and they
auto-registered just fine every single time. I have never had to
contact MS for any new numbers or permissions.

I have made TeraByte and Ghost images on all three computers several
times, and repainted such images successfully many times. No probs.

Now, get this: two of my computers are same brand, but different
models with some components quite different. One was a 30-Gig
partition, and the other was a 20-Gig partition. I once mistakenly
repainted the 20-gig image back onto the 30-Gig computer partition.
NO PROBLEM !! The unused portion formatted on out as unused empty
drive space. I got two errors specifying that my graphics board
was different, and my modem was different. It just asked for
drivers during the bootup process, and I had to reset resolution
back to 1024x768 16-bit from the 640x480 16-color default it gave
me. Upon going online, there still was NO conflict with Microsoft
update center that checked me for validity, and I merely downloaded
all the Q packages necessary.

This has been ages ago, and I'm still percolating just fine.
I really don't think MS cares about one particular product # being
put on a different machine as long as the original one has been
deleted.
 
Susan, I think this huge thread about the use of one's own copy of
Windows XP (Home in my case) is wishful thinking for many, and making
problems where there aren't any .. for others.

My personal experiences with three separate computers, all with XP Home:

I have balded the hard drives down to shiny bare metal, and reinstalled
from scratch many times with each computer. Each time, upon entering
in the proper Pass Key for each respective copy of Win XP on its own
separate computer .. the installations went perfectly and they
auto-registered just fine every single time. I have never had to
contact MS for any new numbers or permissions.

I have made TeraByte and Ghost images on all three computers several
times, and repainted such images successfully many times. No probs.

Now, get this: two of my computers are same brand, but different
models with some components quite different. One was a 30-Gig
partition, and the other was a 20-Gig partition. I once mistakenly
repainted the 20-gig image back onto the 30-Gig computer partition.
NO PROBLEM !! The unused portion formatted on out as unused empty
drive space. I got two errors specifying that my graphics board
was different, and my modem was different. It just asked for
drivers during the bootup process, and I had to reset resolution
back to 1024x768 16-bit from the 640x480 16-color default it gave
me. Upon going online, there still was NO conflict with Microsoft
update center that checked me for validity, and I merely downloaded
all the Q packages necessary.

This has been ages ago, and I'm still percolating just fine.
I really don't think MS cares about one particular product # being
put on a different machine as long as the original one has been
deleted.
Click to expand...

Thank you for confirming my original post.
 
Lord Possum said:
Susan, I think this huge thread about the use of one's own copy of
Windows XP (Home in my case) is wishful thinking for many, and making
problems where there aren't any .. for others.

My personal experiences with three separate computers, all with XP Home:

I have balded the hard drives down to shiny bare metal, and reinstalled
from scratch many times with each computer. Each time, upon entering
in the proper Pass Key for each respective copy of Win XP on its own
separate computer .. the installations went perfectly and they
auto-registered just fine every single time. I have never had to
contact MS for any new numbers or permissions.
snip


This has been ages ago, and I'm still percolating just fine.
I really don't think MS cares about one particular product # being
put on a different machine as long as the original one has been
deleted.
Click to expand...

That's interesting. I wish my experience had been the same!

About 6 weeks ago I had the bright idea of swapping the Hdd from
one computer into another as a quick check to see if a small
problem I was having was hardware or software related.

The two computers were from a batch of six, all the same model
and brand, bought from the same shop at the same time, and
supposedly identical.

After temporarily fitting the Hdd into the second computer (its
own Hdd had been removed first) and starting up I was surprised
to see the Microsoft message mentioning hardware changes and
advising that Windows would need to be activated within the next
48 hours (I'm going from memory but I think that's what it said).

This was a bit of a disappointment but I was even more
disappointed when I replaced the Hdd in the origninal computer,
and saw the same message. It seems that the attempt to run the
Hdd in another computer had resulted in something being written
to the disk which now made it foreign to its own mother!!

In the end I had to phone Micosoft, talk to a computer robot,
copy down a huge string of characters from the computer screen
and punch them into the phone, then write down another huge
string of characters dictated to me by the robot and enter them
into a dialogue box on the computer to reactivate Windows XP.

Fortunately the computer worked OK after that, but my experience
suggests that it's not difficult to get caught by this product
activtion thing.

By the way, the OS was Windows XP home.

Cheers,

John S
 
That's interesting. I wish my experience had been the same!

About 6 weeks ago I had the bright idea of swapping the Hdd from
one computer into another as a quick check to see if a small
problem I was having was hardware or software related.

The two computers were from a batch of six, all the same model
and brand, bought from the same shop at the same time, and
supposedly identical.

After temporarily fitting the Hdd into the second computer (its
own Hdd had been removed first) and starting up I was surprised
to see the Microsoft message mentioning hardware changes and
advising that Windows would need to be activated within the next
48 hours (I'm going from memory but I think that's what it said).

This was a bit of a disappointment but I was even more
disappointed when I replaced the Hdd in the origninal computer,
and saw the same message. It seems that the attempt to run the
Hdd in another computer had resulted in something being written
to the disk which now made it foreign to its own mother!!

In the end I had to phone Micosoft, talk to a computer robot,
copy down a huge string of characters from the computer screen
and punch them into the phone, then write down another huge
string of characters dictated to me by the robot and enter them
into a dialogue box on the computer to reactivate Windows XP.

Fortunately the computer worked OK after that, but my experience
suggests that it's not difficult to get caught by this product
activtion thing.

By the way, the OS was Windows XP home.

Cheers,

John S
Click to expand...
And people ask why I won't upgrade past 98!
 
[snip]
In the end I had to phone Micosoft, talk to a computer robot, copy
down a huge string of characters from the computer screen and punch
them into the phone, then write down another huge string of characters
dictated to me by the robot and enter them into a dialogue box on the
computer to reactivate Windows XP.

Fortunately the computer worked OK after that, but my experience
suggests that it's not difficult to get caught by this product
activtion thing.

By the way, the OS was Windows XP home.
Click to expand...
And people ask why I won't upgrade past 98!
Click to expand...

The above does sound like a bit of a pain, but I gladly except it to have
gotten away from that gigantic PITA that was Windows 98!

--
Colonel Sanders: What the #$%# is this?
Darkhelmet: This is right now.
Colonel Sanders: Then when did the past happen?
Darkhelmet: A little while ago.
Colonel Sanders: Then when is the future?
Darkhelmet: *SOON*
 
David - 23.05.2005 16:28 :


please dont post unnecessary quoting lines again. THX.
Click to expand...

I considered that all was necessary to explain my comment. Not all
readers have previous posts available when they read a message.
 
David - 24.05.2005 01:28 :
I considered that all was necessary to explain my comment. Not all
readers have previous posts available when they read a message.
Click to expand...

it's up to you. In some cases you are right. But in most cases people
quote 100 quoting lines only to say "thanks" for example. So, IMHO, it
would be best only to quote absolutely necessary quoting parts to keep a
NG/Thread readable (and bandwidth!). If one want to go/participate in a
thread he/she should be able reading back.
 
David said:
And people ask why I won't upgrade past 98!
Click to expand...

I "skipped* 98. It's stil on a lapper I never us.

I had enough frustration with 95 and went to W2K. (It wasn't that much
more $'s).. I ran it till I got a new machine last Fall. I didn't even
plan on using XP --- Oh, spring a few bucks more, get Pro.

I installed it anyway and gave it a try. I slowly added apps and in a
month was not using W2k?

Yeah, I still can believe it.

Now, things are highly tweaked - -it does not look like XP anymore. But
most of what I've read in this thread is not XP specific. These
complaints can occur in any OS. Consider what has happened since '98?
That't a bunch of computing years ago!

Nothing I've seen/experienced suggests you are better off with 98.

From a skeptic: XP Pro is lightyears ahead. You do know it is built
on a different architecture? Assuming you have sufficient RAM and CPU,
you will be retracting the above statement very soon after you install.
Unless you are vastly underpowered, 98 holds no advantage. Even then,
I'm not certain of the minimum specs for XP.
 
David - 24.05.2005 01:28 :


it's up to you. In some cases you are right. But in most cases people
quote 100 quoting lines only to say "thanks" for example. So, IMHO, it
would be best only to quote absolutely necessary quoting parts to keep a
NG/Thread readable (and bandwidth!). If one want to go/participate in a
thread he/she should be able reading back.
Click to expand...

I, generally, am quite strict in the amount of material I retain since
I am on dial-up and don't like to download more than is necessary. I
use Agent newsreader and when I have finished reading a message I
delete it so reading back is not an option for me and, I would
presume, for most people who use an off-line reader. Trimming a post
requires diligence to trim enough and no more. In the post under
discussion all the quoted material was relevant to my comment as it
highlighted the point I was attempting to make.
 
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