Digital Signatures - Confusion!


B

BoaterDave

Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem" ............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to do with when the original "tool" was published and given its' Digital Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
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S

Steven L Umbach

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a trusted publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered with. The file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a Certificate Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You can see the CAs that your computer trusts in Internet Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However if the date of the certificate has expired it is not considered valid and you will get a warning message stating such which apparently is what you are seeing. I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any company that values it's security will carefully secure it's signing certificates and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have been compromised. As always good backups of at least data files, ideally the System State also which includes registry backup, and possibly an image of the system drive is best practice to prevent undue hardship from any surprises that can include hardware failure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx --- making backups on XP
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx --- XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem" ............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to do with when the original "tool" was published and given its' Digital Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
B

BoaterDave

Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as I'd used
the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need. However...........
I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes and will therefore follow
the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
............ what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a single
sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her ..... above which was
printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a trusted
publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered with. The file
must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a Certificate Authority
that your computer trusts and be valid. You can see the CAs that your
computer trusts in Internet Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However
if the date of the certificate has expired it is not considered valid and
you will get a warning message stating such which apparently is what you are
seeing. I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their
certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any company
that values it's security will carefully secure it's signing certificates
and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have been compromised. As
always good backups of at least data files, ideally the System State also
which includes registry backup, and possibly an image of the system drive is
best practice to prevent undue hardship from any surprises that can include
hardware failure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help
Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first
place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was
well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I believe
that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does leave me
"wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the Digital
Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a Digital Signature
which, when I check (say after downloading a programme from the Internet) to
have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order to
obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a Certificate
which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with Microsoft, and
was told that they were "aware of the problem" ............... and accept it
anyway! I gather it has something to do with when the original "tool" was
published and given its' Digital Signature, but I've always been sceptical
about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from
Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it required to
"update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated in 2004? (I
haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the Digital
Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't always work as
one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting much harder to
remember!).

David B.
 
S

Steven L Umbach

Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it up
without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan for
malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


BoaterDave said:
Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as I'd
used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes and
will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a single
sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her ..... above which was
printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a trusted
publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered with. The file
must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a Certificate Authority
that your computer trusts and be valid. You can see the CAs that your
computer trusts in Internet Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However
if the date of the certificate has expired it is not considered valid and
you will get a warning message stating such which apparently is what you
are seeing. I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their
certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any
company that values it's security will carefully secure it's signing
certificates and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have been
compromised. As always good backups of at least data files, ideally the
System State also which includes registry backup, and possibly an image of
the system drive is best practice to prevent undue hardship from any
surprises that can include hardware failure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP

tp://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help
Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first
place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was
well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I
believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does leave
me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a Digital
Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a programme from the
Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order to
obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a Certificate
which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with Microsoft, and
was told that they were "aware of the problem" ............... and accept
it anyway! I gather it has something to do with when the original "tool"
was published and given its' Digital Signature, but I've always been
sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from
Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it required
to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated in 2004? (I
haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the Digital
Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't always work
as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting much harder to
remember!).

David B.
 
B

BoaterDave

I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again - result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Steven L Umbach said:
Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it up
without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan for
malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


BoaterDave said:
Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as I'd
used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes and
will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a single
sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her ..... above which
was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a trusted
publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered with. The file
must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a Certificate
Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You can see the CAs
that your computer trusts in Internet Explorer/tools/content -
certificates. However if the date of the certificate has expired it is
not considered valid and you will get a warning message stating such
which apparently is what you are seeing. I have no idea why these
companies have not renewed their certificates. However I would not be
that concerned about it as any company that values it's security will
carefully secure it's signing certificates and revoke any issued
certificates that they feel have been compromised. As always good
backups of at least data files, ideally the System State also which
includes registry backup, and possibly an image of the system drive is
best practice to prevent undue hardship from any surprises that can
include hardware failure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP


://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help
Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first
place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was
well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I
believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does leave
me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a Digital
Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a programme from the
Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order to
obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a Certificate
which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with Microsoft, and
was told that they were "aware of the problem" ............... and accept
it anyway! I gather it has something to do with when the original "tool"
was published and given its' Digital Signature, but I've always been
sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from
Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it required
to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated in 2004? (I
haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the Digital
Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't always work
as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting much harder
to remember!).

David B.
 
S

Steven L Umbach

Be sure to scan for viruses also as those programs do not. I would not worry
about spyware that is detected if it is shown to be low risk by AdAware as
it is not unusual to find something after every internet browsing session.
Trend Micro has a great free utility called Sysclean that scans for and
deletes malware [virus/worm/trojan] it can detect. You do not have to
install it just run Sysclean from the same folder as their latest pattern
file. More info is at the link below and click Trend Micro pattern files
under the list for update center on the left hand side of the page to access
the pattern files. --- Steve

http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp

BoaterDave said:
I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again - result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I
suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Steven L Umbach said:
Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it up
without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan for
malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


BoaterDave said:
Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as I'd
used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes and
will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a single
sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her ..... above which
was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a trusted
publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered with. The
file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a Certificate
Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You can see the CAs
that your computer trusts in Internet Explorer/tools/content -
certificates. However if the date of the certificate has expired it is
not considered valid and you will get a warning message stating such
which apparently is what you are seeing. I have no idea why these
companies have not renewed their certificates. However I would not be
that concerned about it as any company that values it's security will
carefully secure it's signing certificates and revoke any issued
certificates that they feel have been compromised. As always good
backups of at least data files, ideally the System State also which
includes registry backup, and possibly an image of the system drive is
best practice to prevent undue hardship from any surprises that can
include hardware failure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP



/www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help
Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file
anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first
place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was
well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I
believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does
leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a
Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a programme
from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order to
obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a Certificate
which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with Microsoft,
and was told that they were "aware of the problem" ............... and
accept it anyway! I gather it has something to do with when the original
"tool" was published and given its' Digital Signature, but I've always
been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from
Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it required
to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated in 2004? (I
haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the Digital
Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't always
work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting much
harder to remember!).

David B.
 
Ad

Advertisements

B

BoaterDave

I may not have followed you exactly Steve! I ended up here
http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp and DID download Sysclean - and,
guess what, the downloaded file, when checked for its' Digital Signature,
said it was from an Unknown Publisher!

Now why should that be? I thought I might be "safe" using this newsgroup!!

D.

Steven L Umbach said:
Be sure to scan for viruses also as those programs do not. I would not
worry about spyware that is detected if it is shown to be low risk by
AdAware as it is not unusual to find something after every internet
browsing session. Trend Micro has a great free utility called Sysclean
that scans for and deletes malware [virus/worm/trojan] it can detect. You
do not have to install it just run Sysclean from the same folder as their
latest pattern file. More info is at the link below and click Trend Micro
pattern files under the list for update center on the left hand side of
the page to access the pattern files. --- Steve

http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp

BoaterDave said:
I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again - result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I
suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Steven L Umbach said:
Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it up
without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan for
malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as I'd
used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes and
will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a single
sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her ..... above which
was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a
trusted publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered
with. The file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a
Certificate Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You can
see the CAs that your computer trusts in Internet
Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However if the date of the
certificate has expired it is not considered valid and you will get a
warning message stating such which apparently is what you are seeing. I
have no idea why these companies have not renewed their certificates.
However I would not be that concerned about it as any company that
values it's security will carefully secure it's signing certificates
and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have been
compromised. As always good backups of at least data files, ideally
the System State also which includes registry backup, and possibly an
image of the system drive is best practice to prevent undue hardship
from any surprises that can include hardware failure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP



/www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help
Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file
anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first
place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was
well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I
believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does
leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a
Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a
programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order
to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a
Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with
Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem"
............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to do
with when the original "tool" was published and given its' Digital
Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free from
Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it
required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated
in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the
Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't
always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's getting
much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
S

Steven L Umbach

I would go ahead and use it. I have several times on different computers. It
sounds like you may be missing some certificates maybe? Anyhow you could
verify the MD5 hash of sysclean.com to see if it matches what they show. You
can download programs to do that such as fsum and check it like I did in the
example below. --- Steve

http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/ --- Fsum

D:\test1>fsum sysclean.com

SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51
Implemented using SlavaSoft QuickHash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
Copyright (C) SlavaSoft Inc. 1999-2004. All rights reserved.

; SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51 <www.slavasoft.com>
;
; Generated on 02/19/06 at 01:59:45
;
7a84da903c56ba0646eacf6b42957594 *sysclean.com

BoaterDave said:
I may not have followed you exactly Steve! I ended up here
http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp and DID download Sysclean - and,
guess what, the downloaded file, when checked for its' Digital Signature,
said it was from an Unknown Publisher!

Now why should that be? I thought I might be "safe" using this newsgroup!!

D.

Steven L Umbach said:
Be sure to scan for viruses also as those programs do not. I would not
worry about spyware that is detected if it is shown to be low risk by
AdAware as it is not unusual to find something after every internet
browsing session. Trend Micro has a great free utility called Sysclean
that scans for and deletes malware [virus/worm/trojan] it can detect. You
do not have to install it just run Sysclean from the same folder as their
latest pattern file. More info is at the link below and click Trend Micro
pattern files under the list for update center on the left hand side of
the page to access the pattern files. --- Steve

http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp

BoaterDave said:
I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again -
result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I
suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it
up without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan
for malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as I'd
used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes
and will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a
single sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her .....
above which was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a
trusted publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered
with. The file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a
Certificate Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You can
see the CAs that your computer trusts in Internet
Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However if the date of the
certificate has expired it is not considered valid and you will get a
warning message stating such which apparently is what you are seeing.
I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their
certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any
company that values it's security will carefully secure it's signing
certificates and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have
been compromised. As always good backups of at least data files,
ideally the System State also which includes registry backup, and
possibly an image of the system drive is best practice to prevent
undue hardship from any surprises that can include hardware
ailure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP




ww.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro Help
Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file
anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the first
place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it was
well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by Sophos, I
believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about) it does
leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a
Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a
programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order
to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a
Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this with
Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem"
............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to do
with when the original "tool" was published and given its' Digital
Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free
from Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it
required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated
in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the
Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't
always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's
getting much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
S

Steven L Umbach

After further thought you probably are not missing any certificates but the
message simply means that the file is probably not signed and XP is warning
you of such. That does not always mean that the file is malicious. Checking
the MD5 hash in this case would show whether the file was authentic or
ot. --- Steve


Steven L Umbach said:
I would go ahead and use it. I have several times on different computers.
It sounds like you may be missing some certificates maybe? Anyhow you could
verify the MD5 hash of sysclean.com to see if it matches what they show.
You can download programs to do that such as fsum and check it like I did
in the example below. --- Steve

http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/ --- Fsum

D:\test1>fsum sysclean.com

SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51
Implemented using SlavaSoft QuickHash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
Copyright (C) SlavaSoft Inc. 1999-2004. All rights reserved.

; SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51 <www.slavasoft.com>
;
; Generated on 02/19/06 at 01:59:45
;
7a84da903c56ba0646eacf6b42957594 *sysclean.com

BoaterDave said:
I may not have followed you exactly Steve! I ended up here
http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp and DID download Sysclean -
and, guess what, the downloaded file, when checked for its' Digital
Signature, said it was from an Unknown Publisher!

Now why should that be? I thought I might be "safe" using this
newsgroup!!

D.

Steven L Umbach said:
Be sure to scan for viruses also as those programs do not. I would not
worry about spyware that is detected if it is shown to be low risk by
AdAware as it is not unusual to find something after every internet
browsing session. Trend Micro has a great free utility called Sysclean
that scans for and deletes malware [virus/worm/trojan] it can detect.
You do not have to install it just run Sysclean from the same folder as
their latest pattern file. More info is at the link below and click
Trend Micro pattern files under the list for update center on the left
hand side of the page to access the pattern files. --- Steve

http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp

I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again -
result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I
suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it
up without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan
for malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as
I'd used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes
and will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read and
decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly" version
........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page, but a
single sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her .....
above which was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a
trusted publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered
with. The file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a
Certificate Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You can
see the CAs that your computer trusts in Internet
Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However if the date of the
certificate has expired it is not considered valid and you will get a
warning message stating such which apparently is what you are seeing.
I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their
certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any
company that values it's security will carefully secure it's signing
certificates and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have
been compromised. As always good backups of at least data files,
ideally the System State also which includes registry backup, and
possibly an image of the system drive is best practice to prevent
undue hardship from any surprises that can include hardware
ilure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP




ww.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro
Help Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file
anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the
first place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it
was well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by
Sophos, I believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned about)
it does leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a
Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a
programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations of
Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in order
to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a
Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this
with Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem"
............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to do
with when the original "tool" was published and given its' Digital
Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free
from Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it
required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature dated
in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the
Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it doesn't
always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but it's
getting much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
B

BoaterDave

Forgive me Steve - over this past few months I've changed from being a
simple, trusting human being into a highly sceptical and paranoid PC "nurd"!
I know absolutely nothing about you - and the advice you have given in your
last two messages goes right back to my concern at the beginning of this
post!

I have never heard of Slavasoft ............ Lavasoft - yes! How can I
possibly use their "fsum" programme when it comes in a .zip file and I have
no idea what will happen when (IF!) I were to extract the contents?

I need to study more and find anwswers to my concerns from sources that I
trust! Sorry.

David B.

Steven L Umbach said:
After further thought you probably are not missing any certificates but
the message simply means that the file is probably not signed and XP is
warning you of such. That does not always mean that the file is malicious.
Checking the MD5 hash in this case would show whether the file was
authentic or ot. --- Steve


Steven L Umbach said:
I would go ahead and use it. I have several times on different computers.
It sounds like you may be missing some certificates maybe? Anyhow you
could verify the MD5 hash of sysclean.com to see if it matches what they
show. You can download programs to do that such as fsum and check it like
I did in the example below. --- Steve

http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/ --- Fsum

D:\test1>fsum sysclean.com

SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51
Implemented using SlavaSoft QuickHash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
Copyright (C) SlavaSoft Inc. 1999-2004. All rights reserved.

; SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51 <www.slavasoft.com>
;
; Generated on 02/19/06 at 01:59:45
;
7a84da903c56ba0646eacf6b42957594 *sysclean.com

BoaterDave said:
I may not have followed you exactly Steve! I ended up here
http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp and DID download Sysclean -
and, guess what, the downloaded file, when checked for its' Digital
Signature, said it was from an Unknown Publisher!

Now why should that be? I thought I might be "safe" using this
newsgroup!!

D.

Be sure to scan for viruses also as those programs do not. I would not
worry about spyware that is detected if it is shown to be low risk by
AdAware as it is not unusual to find something after every internet
browsing session. Trend Micro has a great free utility called Sysclean
that scans for and deletes malware [virus/worm/trojan] it can detect.
You do not have to install it just run Sysclean from the same folder as
their latest pattern file. More info is at the link below and click
Trend Micro pattern files under the list for update center on the left
hand side of the page to access the pattern files. --- Steve

http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp

I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again -
result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I
suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing it
up without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly scan
for malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as
I'd used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes
and will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read
and decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly"
version ........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page,
but a single sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her
..... above which was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

message Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a
trusted publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered
with. The file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a
Certificate Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You
can see the CAs that your computer trusts in Internet
Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However if the date of the
certificate has expired it is not considered valid and you will get
a warning message stating such which apparently is what you are
seeing. I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their
certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any
company that values it's security will carefully secure it's signing
certificates and revoke any issued certificates that they feel have
been compromised. As always good backups of at least data files,
ideally the System State also which includes registry backup, and
possibly an image of the system drive is best practice to prevent
undue hardship from any surprises that can include hardware
lure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP





.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro
Help Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file
anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the
first place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it
was well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by
Sophos, I believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned
about) it does leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how the
Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see a
Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a
programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations
of Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in
order to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept a
Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this
with Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem"
............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to
do with when the original "tool" was published and given its'
Digital Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free
from Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN - it
required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature
dated in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the
Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it
doesn't always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but
it's getting much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
Ad

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S

Steven L Umbach

Heh heh. No problem. There are a lot of great utilities out there from
little known companies or people. What you should do is to use your
antivirus program to check any files first [including .zip files] and most
good antivirus programs monitor your computer for suspicious activity such
as running a script and warn you and ask how to proceed. Here is a link to
another MD5 verification program from a well known website if you want to
try that one instead. The other links will help you educate yourself. ---
Steve

http://www.webattack.com/reviews/Authent-I/authenti.html
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/protect/windowsxpsp2/Default.mspx
--- Protect Your PC tips from Microsoft.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/topics/serversecurity/avdind_0.mspx
--- Microsoft Antivirus in Depth Guide
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/default.mspx --- Microsoft
Security at Home.
http://labmice.techtarget.com/windowsxp/security/default.htm --- Labmice XP
security

BoaterDave said:
Forgive me Steve - over this past few months I've changed from being a
simple, trusting human being into a highly sceptical and paranoid PC
"nurd"! I know absolutely nothing about you - and the advice you have
given in your last two messages goes right back to my concern at the
beginning of this post!

I have never heard of Slavasoft ............ Lavasoft - yes! How can I
possibly use their "fsum" programme when it comes in a .zip file and I
have no idea what will happen when (IF!) I were to extract the contents?

I need to study more and find anwswers to my concerns from sources that I
trust! Sorry.

David B.

Steven L Umbach said:
After further thought you probably are not missing any certificates but
the message simply means that the file is probably not signed and XP is
warning you of such. That does not always mean that the file is
malicious. Checking the MD5 hash in this case would show whether the file
was authentic or ot. --- Steve


Steven L Umbach said:
I would go ahead and use it. I have several times on different computers.
It sounds like you may be missing some certificates maybe? Anyhow you
could verify the MD5 hash of sysclean.com to see if it matches what they
show. You can download programs to do that such as fsum and check it like
I did in the example below. --- Steve

http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/ --- Fsum

D:\test1>fsum sysclean.com

SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51
Implemented using SlavaSoft QuickHash Library <www.slavasoft.com>
Copyright (C) SlavaSoft Inc. 1999-2004. All rights reserved.

; SlavaSoft Optimizing Checksum Utility - fsum 2.51 <www.slavasoft.com>
;
; Generated on 02/19/06 at 01:59:45
;
7a84da903c56ba0646eacf6b42957594 *sysclean.com

I may not have followed you exactly Steve! I ended up here
http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp and DID download Sysclean -
and, guess what, the downloaded file, when checked for its' Digital
Signature, said it was from an Unknown Publisher!

Now why should that be? I thought I might be "safe" using this
newsgroup!!

D.

Be sure to scan for viruses also as those programs do not. I would not
worry about spyware that is detected if it is shown to be low risk by
AdAware as it is not unusual to find something after every internet
browsing session. Trend Micro has a great free utility called Sysclean
that scans for and deletes malware [virus/worm/trojan] it can detect.
You do not have to install it just run Sysclean from the same folder
as their latest pattern file. More info is at the link below and click
Trend Micro pattern files under the list for update center on the left
hand side of the page to access the pattern files. --- Steve

http://www.trendmicro.com/download/dcs.asp

I did scan earlier today and "cleaned". I've just done so again -
result:-

Spybot found nothing!
Trend Micro AntiSpyware found 10 items!
Lavasoft Ad-Aware found 7 items (some the same as Trend)

Quite amazing really - but the price to pay for surfing the .net I
suppose!

Thanks for your interest Steve.

David


Interesting. I just did the same thing and had no problem printing
it up without selecting printer friendly version. I would certainly
scan for malware/spyware including in Safe Mode. --- Steve


Well - I thought I'd seen it all!.

Thanks for the links Steve. Whilst I had seen the pages before, as
I'd used the Windows OneCare back-up facility I saw no real need.
However........... I'm no longer experimenting with Beta programmes
and will therefore follow the Microsoft advice.

I went to the "Windows XP Backup Made Easy site, had a quick read
and decided to print it. I failed to select a "printer friendly"
version ........... what was printed? Not the whole as a web page,
but a single sheet with a Lady and a small window in front of her
..... above which was printed "I've been bitten".

Any comment or ideas why?

David B.

message Digital signatures are used to verify that the file comes from a
trusted publisher and can rule out that the file has been tampered
with. The file must be signed by a certificate that was issued by a
Certificate Authority that your computer trusts and be valid. You
can see the CAs that your computer trusts in Internet
Explorer/tools/content - certificates. However if the date of the
certificate has expired it is not considered valid and you will get
a warning message stating such which apparently is what you are
seeing. I have no idea why these companies have not renewed their
certificates. However I would not be that concerned about it as any
company that values it's security will carefully secure it's
signing certificates and revoke any issued certificates that they
feel have been compromised. As always good backups of at least
data files, ideally the System State also which includes registry
backup, and possibly an image of the system drive is best practice
to prevent undue hardship from any surprises that can include
hardware lure. --- Steve

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/learnmore/bott_03july14.mspx
--- making backups on XP





.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/asr.mspx ---
XP Automated System Recovery backup
Hello.

I recently received this message (part only) from the Trend Micro
Help Centre:-

Thank you for your email and the screenshot.
1.
Please ignore that Digital Signature and install and run the file
anyway.

Really .......... I thought that's why warnings are given in the
first place! Whilst I'm sure that, in that particular scenario, it
was well-intentioned (and after having had the file checked by
Sophos, I believe that there is nothing for me to be concerned
about) it does leave me "wondering"!

However, I must admit that I do not fully understand exactly how
the Digital Signature system is supposed to work. I "expect" to see
a Digital Signature which, when I check (say after downloading a
programme from the Internet) to have a date which is current .

However, (and as a "for instance") during my many re-installations
of Windows XP since Christmas (7 in all now!) I discovered that in
order to obtain Updates from Microsoft thereafter, I had to accept
a Certificate which had a "out of date" signature. I did raise this
with Microsoft, and was told that they were "aware of the problem"
............... and accept it anyway! I gather it has something to
do with when the original "tool" was published and given its'
Digital Signature, but I've always been sceptical about this.

This has just occured again when (now that my PC is, at last, free
from Malware [ ??? ever the optomist!]) I attempted to join MSN -
it required to "update" itself - and wants me to accept a sinature
dated in 2004? (I haven't, yet!)

Someone "out there" must surely be able to explain to me how the
Digital Signature system works ......... or, perhaps, that it
doesn't always work as one might expect! I'm willing to learn (but
it's getting much harder to remember!).

David B.
 
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