Differences in HP 57 cartridges?

[John Pezzano]

Anyone know the difference between the Q7940AN#140 HP57 cartridge with 50
sheets of paper and the C6657AN cartridge which is an HP 57 without the
paper but which costs about $11 more? Both are available at hpshopping.com.
According to HP's web site the technical description for each lists them
both as 17ml but the HPShopping web site does not show any volume for the
Q7940AN#140.

John Pezzano

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Anyone know the difference between the Q7940AN#140 HP57 cartridge with 50
sheets of paper and the C6657AN cartridge which is an HP 57 without the
paper but which costs about $11 more? Both are available at hpshopping.com.
According to HP's web site the technical description for each lists them
both as 17ml but the HPShopping web site does not show any volume for the
Q7940AN#140.

John Pezzano

There are three types of this cartridge

Standard: 17ml of ink

'HP 57 Series' - usually bundled with a HP 56 Black cartridge and a
stack of photo paper. The same as the 'starter cartridge' the printer
comes with. About 9 ml of ink.

HP 57+ - 17 ml of Vivera ink, new product.

Either the cheaper one is a smaller tank, or the more expensive one is
a 57+ cartridge. I'd lean more towards the one with the paper being a
'half-size' cartridge.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[Bob Headrick]

There are three types of this cartridge

Standard: 17ml of ink

'HP 57 Series' - usually bundled with a HP 56 Black cartridge and a
stack of photo paper. The same as the 'starter cartridge' the printer
comes with. About 9 ml of ink.

HP 57+ - 17 ml of Vivera ink, new product.

Either the cheaper one is a smaller tank, or the more expensive one is
a 57+ cartridge. I'd lean more towards the one with the paper being a
'half-size' cartridge.

That is not quite true. There is not a "starter" version of the 57
cartridge. There are several versions with different ink fills, the
standard 57 and the "Photo Value Pack series" that are sold with paper
and ink sized to match. I believe the link that says the 50 page photo
value pack has 17mL cartridges is in error.

The 57+ cartridge has the same ink as the 57 but uses the new more
lightfast Vivera ink first introduced in the 97 cartridge.

Regards,
Bob Headrick

 

[Fred McKenzie]

The 57+ cartridge has the same ink as the 57 but uses the new more
lightfast Vivera ink first introduced in the 97 cartridge.

Bob-

My HP 450 uses the 57 cartridge, so I'll definitely look for the plus version.

One problem I've had, is that the 57 ink has almost zero resistance to
water, no matter how long it has dried. Do you know if the 57+ is any
better in that department?

Fred

 

[measekite]

That is not quite true. There is not a "starter" version of the 57
cartridge. There are several versions with different ink fills, the
standard 57 and the "Photo Value Pack series" that are sold with paper
and ink sized to match. I believe the link that says the 50 page
photo value pack has 17mL cartridges is in error.

The 57+ cartridge has the same ink as the 57 but uses the new more
lightfast Vivera ink first introduced in the 97 cartridge.

Regards,
Bob Headrick

THE COST (I MEAN COST TO MAKE) IS SO CHEAP THAT HP CAN MAKE A HEALTHY
PROFIT BY CHARGING THE SMALL SIZE PRICE FOR THE LARGEST SIZE IN VOLUME.

AND ALL OF THE PRINTER COMPANIES SHOULD MAKE TRIPLE SIZE CARTS FOR THE
PRICE THEY ARE SELLING THE STANDARD SIZE NOW.

LOOK AT CANON SELLING THE LARGER SIZE BLACK FOR THE IP4000 AT ABOUT THE
SAME PRICE AS THE SMALLER SIZE BLACK. DO YOU REALLY THINK THAT IS THAT
MUCH OF A DIFFERENCE IN COST.

ALL WE NEED IS 1 MAJOR INK/FORMULATOR OF HIGH QUALITY INK THAT WILL
PREFILL CARTS UNDER THEIR OWN NAME AND BOX AND SELL THEM IN ALL TYPES OF
VENUES AT ABOUT 50% OF THE PRICE OF OEMS. YOU CAN THEN TRACK THE
PERFORMANCE (OR LACKOF THEREOF) IN THE MARKETPLAFE AND YOU WOULD THEN
SEE THE SALES PRICE OF OEM INK RAPIDLY ADJUST.

 

[Bob Headrick]

One problem I've had, is that the 57 ink has almost zero resistance to
water, no matter how long it has dried. Do you know if the 57+ is any
better in that department?

I would not expect the water resistance to be significantly different.
Are you having this issue with plain paper or photo paper? The paper
type can make a big difference in waterfastness. HP has a new plain
paper called "HP Advanced - Multi-use". It says "improved water and
smear resistance with darker blacks and more vivid colors".

Regards,
Bob Headrick


There are also photo papers that have better water resistance, although
there is typically a tradeoff between image quality, water resistance
and light fade.

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Bob-

My HP 450 uses the 57 cartridge, so I'll definitely look for the plus version.

One problem I've had, is that the 57 ink has almost zero resistance to
water, no matter how long it has dried. Do you know if the 57+ is any
better in that department?

Fred

HP Vivera ink is unlike the Epson DuraBrite ink; it's not pigment
based, but is chemically formulated, along with the HP Premium Plus
Photo Paper, to sink and lock into the paper so that it's actually
underneath the gloss coat (not entirely scientifically accurate, but
close enough). This lets them claim the longevity that they attribute
to it. I'm not sure how this would affect the waterfastness. Using it
on plain paper or with another brand of photo paper would be the same
as any other dye ink.

I doubt anything that comes out of an inkjet would be what most people
wold consider 'waterproof'; I finally gave up and had my bumper
stickers laser printed onto waterproof labels. Onlinelabels.com
carries an 'inkjet waterproof label' that supposedly 'encapsulates'
the ink. This would still not be fade-resistant unless you had pigment
inks (which might not even work with it). Office Depot also makes
'waterproof bumper stickers' but the old packages of them used to say
something about 'take them off if the car will be exposed to heavy
amounts of rain', I don't see this on the new packages. As someone
else also said 'HP Advance' paper is supposed to be water resistant
with all HP inks, but it's pretty thin, 20 lb.

---

http://www.FenrirOnline.com

Computer services, custom metal etching,
arts, crafts, and much more.

 

[Bob Headrick]

HP Vivera ink is unlike the Epson DuraBrite ink; it's not pigment
based, but is chemically formulated, along with the HP Premium Plus
Photo Paper, to sink and lock into the paper so that it's actually
underneath the gloss coat (not entirely scientifically accurate, but
close enough). This lets them claim the longevity that they attribute
to it. I'm not sure how this would affect the waterfastness. Using it
on plain paper or with another brand of photo paper would be the same
as any other dye ink.

The last statement is not correct. The Vivera inks use different dyes
that are more light fast. While the best lightfastness is achieved with
the Premium Plus paper, the Vivera ink has about 2-4X the lightfastness
compared to the standard HP #57 cartrdige when using the same paper for
both. See Henry Wilhelm's data at http://www.wilhelm-research.com/, in
particular http://www.wilhelm-research.com/4x6/4x6.html.

I doubt anything that comes out of an inkjet would be what most people
wold consider 'waterproof' [snip]

I have printed inkjet photo's on two different manufacturer's printers
with photo paper that could be dunked in a cup of coffee, removed and
wiped off without any noticeable effect on the image. The tradeoff is
in image quality and lightfastness.

- Bob Headrick

 

[Fred McKenzie]

I would not expect the water resistance to be significantly different.
Are you having this issue with plain paper or photo paper? The paper
type can make a big difference in waterfastness. HP has a new plain
paper called "HP Advanced - Multi-use". It says "improved water and
smear resistance with darker blacks and more vivid colors".

Bob-

For most of my prints, I've used HP's Premium Inkjet Paper, 51634Y. I
started using it with the old HP PaintWriter many years ago.

I haven't been able to find it recently, so now use HP's Premium
Presentation Paper, Q5449A. This has the added advantage of being coated
on both sides.

For my purposes, glossy photo paper is too thick, although I'm sure the
photos would look nice.

Fred

 

[Fred McKenzie]

I doubt anything that comes out of an inkjet would be what most people
wold consider 'waterproof'; I finally gave up and had my bumper
stickers laser printed onto waterproof labels. Onlinelabels.com
carries an 'inkjet waterproof label' that supposedly 'encapsulates'
the ink. This would still not be fade-resistant unless you had pigment
inks (which might not even work with it). Office Depot also makes
'waterproof bumper stickers' but the old packages of them used to say
something about 'take them off if the car will be exposed to heavy
amounts of rain', I don't see this on the new packages.

Fenrir-

I recently replaced the control panel of an emergency generator, but was
unble to obtain a replacement for the lable. I photographed the original
and printed it exact-size on Office Max white inkjet bumper stickers. It
doesn't say to keep it dry, but does have a suggestion to "spray lightly
with clear acrylic gloss or matte sealant."

The printer I used for this, is the Epson Photo 2000P with pigment ink.
(I did NOT coat it with acrylic.) On a generator the label might be
exposed to water and gasoline. Giving it time to dry, the first sample
was tested by soaking half of it in water overnight. It was not possible
to tell where it had been exposed to the water, and rubbing it while wet
didn't leave any mark. I then tested the sample in some 99% Isopropyl
Alcohol, and then in some gasoline. For practical purposes, the ink was
not affected.

Colors of the final version of the label aren't as bright as the original,
but most people wouldn't notice it is a copy.

To tie this into the original discussion, the Epson is NOT a portable
printer like the HP 450. I never expected to make prints that would
withstand such an ordeal as for the bumper stickers, but the HP 57 ink is
at the opposite extreme!

Fred