Did power surge fry my license as well?

[kencl]

Hi Folks,

We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a heat
issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:

- XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby so
I don't need them anyway)
- it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
- the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you read
the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125

I'll quote the important section of that article:

"An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded
or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is created,
and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer’s replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer’s warranty."

So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on a
newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy my
XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking the
specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How do
I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!

 

[SC Tom]

If the MB doesn't work correctly, and will not accept the drivers needed to
make it correct, then the MB is defective. There is no differentiation in
the link you provided between "damaged" and "defective," so my HAWO would be
that you are within the limits of the license to replace the MB with one
that works, but only with the same make and model as the one being replaced.

That being said, I had upgraded a defective MB in the past and, after a
phone call to MS, was granted an activation code, even though I was 100%
honest with them about what I was doing. The difference may be that I don't
believe it was an OEM CD; I think it was an upgrade CD I had used to upgrade
from ME to XP.

SC Tom

 

[Daave]

Hi Folks,

We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install
disk and the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and
authenticated, with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components
eg PSU). Well, the system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes
terminate for no reason, some drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI
bridge). I've ensured it's not a heat issue etc. I want to replace
the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is considered installing XP
on a "new computer".

That is a common misperception. It's still the same computer.

Here are the issues:

- XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a
hobby so I don't need them anyway)

I take it we're talking about a generic OEM CD. Correct?

- it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
- the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when
you read the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125

I'll quote the important section of that article:

"An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to
create a new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating
system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the
motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect
then a new computer is created, and a new operating system license is
required. If the motherboard is replaced because of a defect, the
user does not need to acquire a new operating system license for the
computer. The motherboard replacement must be the same make and
model, or the same manufacturer’s replacement or equivalent, as
defined by that manufacturer’s warranty."

Very interesting. And it even looks official (since it's from the
Microsoft site!). But your only concern is with the language contained
within the *EULA itself*. Since the EULA does not specify that changing
the motherboard creates a new computer, your license will still be
valid. Period.

So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the
damage.
Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD
again on a newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge
effectively destroy my XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second
hand Intel socket 478 board with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI
865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking the specs and reviews for the Intel
D865GLC, but that's another topic . How do I obtain permission
from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?

The EULA is all the permission you need. As long as you don't install XP
(using that Product Key) onto another computer, you're fine. That's the
agreement.

Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!

I'll bet the automatic Internet activation will work just fine, provided
the last time XP was installed on that PC was more than 120 days ago.
Worst case scenario: five minute phone call.

Good luck.

 

[JS]

Read the last part: "The motherboard replacement must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."

So the key here is the MSI KT880 must be replaced by what
MSI considers to be a replacement or equivalent.

 

[DL]

If your OEM copy of win is locked to origonal mobo, you would need to obtain
a compatible replacemet from the PC Maker

 

[smlunatick]

That is a common misperception. It's still the same computer.



I take it we're talking about a generic OEM CD. Correct?






Very interesting. And it even looks official (since it's from the
Microsoft site!). But your only concern is with the language contained
within the *EULA itself*. Since the EULA does not specify that changing
the motherboard creates a new computer, your license will still be
valid. Period.


The EULA is all the permission you need. As long as you don't install XP
(using that Product Key) onto another computer, you're fine. That's the
agreement.


I'll bet the automatic Internet activation will work just fine, provided
the last time XP was installed on that PC was more than 120 days ago.
Worst case scenario: five minute phone call.

Good luck.

This still needs more clarification. Nowhere in the ELUA for the OEM
version has clearly stated what qualifies as a "new PC." It has been
generally accepted that most PCs are considered to be based off the
motherboard. Microsoft's own Product Activation system looks at
several components on the motherboard in order to build the "product
activation" tokens for the "activation" process.

 

[Patrick Keenan]

Hi Folks,

We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a
heat
issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:

- XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby
so
I don't need them anyway)
- it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
- the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you
read
the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125

I'll quote the important section of that article:

"An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
upgraded
or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is
created,
and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement
must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."

So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on
a
newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy
my
XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking
the
specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How
do
I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!

First, if electrical events fried the hard disk, it's quite possible for the
motherboard (including components such as CPU and memory) and power supply
to be damaged as well. And, it can be hard to tell what *isn't* damaged.

You'd have to hire contract lawyers for a legal opinion on the true meaning
of the terms of the EULA and how your local laws affect it, but doing that
would probably cost you more than a complete new PC.

In *technical* terms, however, unless the XP install CD is of an OEM type
that looks for a specific BIOS signature (i.e., it's a Dell), and if you
have the install CD and a COA that matches it, you will not likely be
prevented from installing or activating or passing WGA.

In the event that online activation fails and you had to actually phone in
for activation, which would really only be needed if you had activated just
prior to the electrical event, you only have to say that you had to
re-install, and that the install is to one PC. That's the extent of the
skill-testing questions.

So there are two aspects here, one legal, which may be unclear or
inapplicable or voided; and one technical, which is very likely to work By
'work', I mean that you will be able to successfully install, activate
online or by phone, and pass WGA tests.

To further muddy the legal situation, successfully activating and passing
WGA may (or may not) indicate acceptance of the new configuration by MS.

You don't need to obtain permission in advance, and I'm not sure you can.
In the very worst case, you will go to the store and buy another XP license
and enter the new key if activation fails.

You can, if you wish, reinstall with the new license to make sure the key is
accepted properly. That would only be necessary if you shifted from an OEM
to a Retail license.

This kind of question, however, is a reason why home builders may not always
save money in the long run with OEM licenses. A Retail version, even an
Upgrade, does not have this kind of limitation.

However, as cost-justification information, I will mention that it's very
possible to purchase used name brand (I've been purchasing them as HPs) 3gHz
P4 systems, with XP Pro licenses and a gig or two of RAM and 40 to 80 gig
SATA drives, in really pretty good condition, for under CDN$200 (no
keyboard, mouse, or monitor). How much will the motherboard cost you, and
have you kept in mind that the power suppy and memory may be damaged and
require replacement, too?

In other words, you may be much farther ahead to scrap that system and
replace it with a used, superior system, for a few dollars more than the
parts to fix and old and inadequate system.

HTH
-pk

 

[Leythos]

"An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
new personal computer.

Any "Motherboard" change because of a FAILED MOTHERBOARD is completely
permitted for OEM. If you were just "Upgrading" the motherboard then it
was not permitted.

In this case, you can REPAIR the computer by REPLACING A DEFECTIVE
motherboard, and as long as the OEM install CD is not BIOS locked, you
might have to do a Phone Activation at the worst.

 

[Leythos]

This still needs more clarification. Nowhere in the ELUA for the OEM
version has clearly stated what qualifies as a "new PC." It has been
generally accepted that most PCs are considered to be based off the
motherboard. Microsoft's own Product Activation system looks at
several components on the motherboard in order to build the "product
activation" tokens for the "activation" process.

On the OEM system builders site, for as long as one could access it,
OEM's can replace the motherboard because of failure, and still activate
and maintain their licensing. Key word is failure.

 

[Leythos]

Read the last part: "The motherboard replacement must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."

So the key here is the MSI KT880 must be replaced by what
MSI considers to be a replacement or equivalent.

No, it does not, it can be ANY motherboard as long as it's to replace a
defective one. When the same board is no longer available it can be ANY
board.

 

[Daave]

This still needs more clarification. Nowhere in the ELUA for the OEM
version has clearly stated what qualifies as a "new PC." It has been
generally accepted that most PCs are considered to be based off the
motherboard. Microsoft's own Product Activation system looks at
several components on the motherboard in order to build the "product
activation" tokens for the "activation" process.

But my point is that the *EULA for Windows XP* doesn't have any
clarification to begin with. Interestingly, someone recently posted the
relevant part of the EULA for Windows Vista (I think it was the EULA!),
and Microsoft actually stated that a different motherboard *doesn't*
constitute a new PC! The phrase "has been generally accepted" has no
useful meaning in this specific situation. Now, if a particular OEM
wants to go out of their way to say to its customers that replacing the
motherboard (different brand) results in a new PC, that's a different
situation. That is their prerogative.

Hey, if the OP wants to interpret the EULA in such a way that he no
longer has the right to run that software, that's up to him. Of course,
there's nothing to stop him from interpreting it in a way that benefits
him. The PC is the same unless the EULA says otherwise.

 

[marika]

Hi Folks,

We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.  
Harddrive totally dead.  Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU).  Well, the
system is unstable.  It's flakey.  Processes terminate for no reason,some
drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge).  I've ensured it's not a heat
issue etc.  I want to replace the motherboard and CPU.  This, however, is
considered installing XP on a "new computer".  Here are the issues:

- XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobbyso
I don't need them anyway)
- it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
- the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you read
the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125

I'll quote the important section of that article:

"An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded
or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is created,
and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer’s replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer’s warranty."

amazing

mk5000

"Jenna Favoli's husband Frank Voden was a Judge on the Wisconsin
Supreme Court and though he was prominent certainly and important no
one would have cared about him if he hadn't had his lustrous wife.
The pair had recently moved to Hartley, midway between Frank's court
in Madison and the radio station in Milwaukee in an effort for privacy
and security"--Laura Rider's Masterpiece, Jane Hamilton

 

[norm]

Does such an article supersede the eula, by which the customer is bound,
and states no such condition?

amazing

mk5000

"Jenna Favoli's husband Frank Voden was a Judge on the Wisconsin
Supreme Court and though he was prominent certainly and important no
one would have cared about him if he hadn't had his lustrous wife.
The pair had recently moved to Hartley, midway between Frank's court
in Madison and the radio station in Milwaukee in an effort for privacy
and security"--Laura Rider's Masterpiece, Jane Hamilton

Does such an article supersede the eula, by which the customer is bound,
and states no such condition?