Dell Inspirion refuses to charge battery.

[Rahul]

The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
(guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.

After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
green/orange)

On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
Charge %age always remains at zero.

I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.

Debug steps so far:

1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.

2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
some custom-version.

3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
"expensive doorstop"

Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
ago!

 

[PD43]

I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.

Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
discussing Windows XP operating system issues.

You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
people you bought the battery from?

 

[Rahul]

Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
discussing Windows XP operating system issues.

You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
people you bought the battery from?

Sorry PD43; it wasn't my intention to mis-post or hijack the group. For
me it seemed like a relevant technical issue: "How does WinXP
communicate with the battery?" It's almost akin to removing
Dell-installed-malware. Its my laptop now that I bought it from Dell and
how can I remove all pieces of Dell junk-software (that I suspect caused
this) from it and just leave a "clean" WinXP install? Or if there are
"industry battery standards" etc.? Its easy to specify parameters for
RAM modules, PCI cards, USB ports etc.; does similar compatibility-data
exist for battery specs?

Again, I'm sorry if I misjudged the group-subject area. (Kahlon has been
nice enough to accept the battery back but I just had a technical
curiosity to figure out how this whole mess works!)

 

[Bill in Co.]

Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. It's for
discussing Windows XP operating system issues.

You really need to look someplace else for your answer. Perhaps the
people you bought the battery from?

There actually is a very active and extensive Dell user support forum at
their web site. He should check that out.

 

[Bill in Co.]

Check out my reply to PD43.

Sorry PD43; it wasn't my intention to mis-post or hijack the group. For
me it seemed like a relevant technical issue: "How does WinXP
communicate with the battery?" It's almost akin to removing
Dell-installed-malware. Its my laptop now that I bought it from Dell and
how can I remove all pieces of Dell junk-software (that I suspect caused
this) from it and just leave a "clean" WinXP install? Or if there are
"industry battery standards" etc.? Its easy to specify parameters for
RAM modules, PCI cards, USB ports etc.; does similar compatibility-data
exist for battery specs?

Again, I'm sorry if I misjudged the group-subject area. (Kahlon has been
nice enough to accept the battery back but I just had a technical
curiosity to figure out how this whole mess works!)

 

[Richard in AZ]

Sounds like your problem is with Kahlon and their guarantee.

 

[Lem]

The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505 was
almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell battery was
around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery from Kahlon
(guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.

After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up and
issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will not be
able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and continue. I
kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get the battery its
recommended initial charge. Subsequently I disconnected AC power and
proceeded to work on the battery till it drained fully (about 4 hours).
Laptop worked fine. (all the while the battery charging LED blinks
green/orange)

On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the power bar
gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs, manufacturer etc.
Charge %age always remains at zero.

I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but some
Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than their
expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong suspicion. Unfair.

Debug steps so far:

1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning. Will
work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery recognizes
all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.

2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
some custom-version.

3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this model. Its
only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest I end up with an
"expensive doorstop"

Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
ago!

Given that the replacement battery you bought was "guaranteed to be
E1505 compatible" but doesn't seem to work on your E1505, perhaps you
ought to get in touch with Kahlon support.

--
Lem -- MS-MVP

To the moon and back with 2K words of RAM and 36K words of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
http://history.nasa.gov/afj/compessay.htm

 

[Shenan Stanley]

The battery on my 2 year old, out-of-warranty, Dell Inspirion E1505
was almost dead ( about 6 min. charge retention). A new Dell
battery was around 200$ and hence I bought a replacement battery
from Kahlon (guaranteed to be E1505 compatible) for half the price.

After I swapped in my new Kahlon battery my Dell beeped on boot-up
and issued a warning of the sort: "Unrecognized battery type; Will
not be able to charge". Pressing F1 allowed me to ignore this and
continue. I kept the AC charger connected for about 12 hrs to get
the battery its recommended initial charge. Subsequently I
disconnected AC power and proceeded to work on the battery till it
drained fully (about 4 hours). Laptop worked fine. (all the while
the battery charging LED blinks green/orange)

On next recharges same warning recurs. F1 allows me to bypass. Only
difference now the battery does not charge at all. On AC adapter
disconnect the laptop immediately dies. Double clicking on the
power bar gives me all the battery details including Amp-hrs,
manufacturer etc. Charge %age always remains at zero.

I have no clue how to fix this! I suspect its the right battery but
some Dell trick that prevents me from using anything other than
their expensive "official" battery. No proof but a strong
suspicion. Unfair.

Debug steps so far:

1. Tried booting from a Knoppix Live Linux CD. Still same warning.
Will work only so long as I have the adapter. /proc/acpi/battery
recognizes all battery details. Charge %age remains zero.

2. Tried BIOS. No battery recalibration options. No user-changeable
battery settings at all there. Probably Dell "sanitized" the BIOS to
some custom-version.

3. Only one BIOS flash upgrade listed on Dell website for this
model. Its only an optional update. Too chicken to try it yet lest
I end up with an "expensive doorstop"

Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not
want to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost
$700 2 years ago!

Unfortunately - two points...

1) This is a Windows XP group and your problem is not only obviously not a
Windows issue - but even you pointed that out in several ways.

2) This means it is a hardware issue - one which you would need to discuss
with the manufacturer. It costs nothing to post on Dell's web forums - you
might try there.

 

[PA Bear [MS MVP]]

Sometimes you get what you pay for. Return the battery to Kahlon for credit
(since it's guaranteed) then buy a new or reconditioned battery from Dell
instead.

 

[Rahul]

Sometimes you get what you pay for. Return the battery to Kahlon for credit
(since it's guaranteed) then buy a new or reconditioned battery from Dell
instead.

Thank Robear! I think I'll return it to Kahlon. On second thoughts
though, its Dell who's the bad guy here not Kahlon. I might just fight
it out. Screw my depreciated 700$! I'm installing Linux AND doing a
BIOS upgrade. Let's see what I get. Either I end up with an expensive
doorstop or I defeat Dell's monopolistic scheming!

 

[PD43]

Any help at all is greatly appreciated! If I can help it I do not want
to pay Dell 200$ to inject new life into a laptop that cost $700 2 years
ago!

Sorry, but this isn't a Dell hardware support group. You might try
asking the people you bought the battery from.

 

[Rahul]

Unfortunately - two points...

1) This is a Windows XP group and your problem is not only obviously not a
Windows issue - but even you pointed that out in several ways

Thanks Stanley! I see your point. Its probably a crooked BIOS! I
should only post to a HWare group or a BIOS group.

2) This means it is a hardware issue - one which you would need to discuss
with the manufacturer. It costs nothing to post on Dell's web forums - you
might try there.

I'll try the Dell forums too. Its just that I don't expect too much
help from Dell since this might be counterproductive to their
intentions (assuming my suspicion was well-founded!)

 

[Rahul]

Given that the replacement battery you bought was "guaranteed to be
E1505 compatible" but doesn't seem to work on your E1505, perhaps you
ought to get in touch with Kahlon support.

Thanks Lem! I guess I'll return it to Kahlon. I just think its unfair
to Kahlon though. I strongly feel its Dell who's introducing
artificial obstacles. What if I added Samsung RAM, or a Segate HDD
the BIOS would complain. Like I replied to another post: I just might
burn away my depreciated 700$ and hack away with Linux and a flashed
BIOS to make a point! (of course, assuming there's a way out! )
The whole PC industry is based on fungible parts and I hate to believe
Dell deserves an exception!

 

[Rahul]

There actually is a very active and extensive Dell user support forum at
their web site. He should check that out.

Thanks Bill! I'll repost there.

 

[John]

You could try the following NG for help:

alt.sys.pc-clone.dell

John.

 

[Rahul]

You could try the following NG for help:

alt.sys.pc-clone.dell

John.

Thanks John. I didn't know of that one!'ll repost there.

 

[Paul]

Thanks Lem! I guess I'll return it to Kahlon. I just think its unfair
to Kahlon though. I strongly feel its Dell who's introducing
artificial obstacles. What if I added Samsung RAM, or a Segate HDD
the BIOS would complain. Like I replied to another post: I just might
burn away my depreciated 700$ and hack away with Linux and a flashed
BIOS to make a point! (of course, assuming there's a way out! )
The whole PC industry is based on fungible parts and I hate to believe
Dell deserves an exception!

I doubt I'll be able to find a complete picture of how it all works,
but perhaps these links will help.

"The smart battery"
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-17.htm

PDF page 14 here, has examples of info supplied by the battery,
to the computer. The Dell software could be barfing, based on
something it is reading. (It is not unheard of, for a knockoff
maker of a piece of hardware, to not know how to program
something.)

http://www2.altiris.com/docs/partners/WP_ OMCI.pdf

A little info on fuel gauges for batteries.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3958

Ultimately, Kahlon made a guarantee of compatibility, which means
they've read articles like the ones above, and understand their
responsibilities. If they were completely clueless, then they
should test the battery they intend to sell, with the laptop
they intend to use it with. If they understand what all the pins
do, what data should be populated in an EEPROM or whatever, then
they should be able to figure out, based on your symptom description,
how they screwed up (sent wrong battery to you or whatever).

The original Dell battery worked with the laptop. Even if Dell is
slimy, for making the battery technology so "Smart", that should
not prevent an aftermarket manufacturer, from "copying exactly".
If they can make fake Nikes, they should be able to make a battery
that works for you.

What has happened to you, is one reason I'll never own a laptop.
Every time the laptop has a problem, someone has their hand out,
looking for $200.00 :-( Even to have someone "look" at a laptop,
and make a superficial diagnosis, costs $200. And now that a
battery factory burned just recently, there is no reason for
the price of batteries to come down. When I looked at the prices
on the Dell site, I was shocked.

Paul

 

[Andrew E.]

Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to one.
Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
site
& get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related specs.

 

[Rahul]

Rahul wrote:

I doubt I'll be able to find a complete picture of how it all works,
but perhaps these links will help.

Thanks Paul! You've probably provided me with the best set of links
on this issue so far!

"The smart battery"http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-17.htm

PDF page 14 here, has examples of info supplied by the battery,
to the computer. The Dell software could be barfing, based on
something it is reading. (It is not unheard of, for a knockoff
maker of a piece of hardware, to not know how to program
something.)

Absolutely. If only I could figure out how to disable the Dell
software! If it is a software check it can be defeated! I have no
qualms doing it.

http://www2.altiris.com/docs/partners/WP_ OMCI.pdf

A little info on fuel gauges for batteries.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/an_pk/3958

Ultimately, Kahlon made a guarantee of compatibility, which means
they've read articles like the ones above, and understand their
responsibilities. If they were completely clueless, then they
should test the battery they intend to sell, with the laptop
they intend to use it with. If they understand what all the pins
do, what data should be populated in an EEPROM or whatever, then
they should be able to figure out, based on your symptom description,
how they screwed up (sent wrong battery to you or whatever).
The original Dell battery worked with the laptop. Even if Dell is
slimy, for making the battery technology so "Smart", that should
not prevent an aftermarket manufacturer, from "copying exactly".
If they can make fake Nikes, they should be able to make a battery
that works for you.

Very true. I guess Kahlon has the blame to share too. For incompetence
rather than pure malice and greed shown by Dell. I guess I have a
share of the blame too. For being a cheapskate. I could have shelled
out $200.

What has happened to you, is one reason I'll never own a laptop.
Every time the laptop has a problem, someone has their hand out,
looking for $200.00 :-(

Why has this issue pervaded Laptops in particular I wonder!

Thanks again Paul!

 

[Rahul]

Draining a battery completely is among the worst things you could do to one.

Thanks Andrew! That's again the confusing point. I've seen many tips
that claim I ought to completely drain the battery to avoid any memory
effects (at least the first few times) Other's say that draining a
battery is bad.

Also,dell certainly doesnt mfg batteries,try going to the battery mfg web
site
& get the specifics as to how much power it really has & its related specs.

If only I got a list of spcs. and a standard that went like: "Provided
(a) (b) and (c) hold; the battery will be compatible."