Deleted items NOT going to Deleted Items folder

[Keith]

Got a new, Windows 7 Home, PC. Dealer imported all from Outlook Express on
old XP Home PC. Now when I delete an email it disappears - doesn't go to the
Deleted Items folder.
How do I get it to go to the Deleted Items folder?

Keith

 

[Keith]

My mistake! Windows 7 is using Outlook, not Outlook Express.

I couldn't find anything in Tools, Options nor via Help.

 

[VanguardLH]

Got a new, Windows 7 Home, PC. Dealer imported all from Outlook Express on
old XP Home PC. Now when I delete an email it disappears - doesn't go to the
Deleted Items folder.
How do I get it to go to the Deleted Items folder?

Keith

Haven't a clue WHICH version of Outlook that you use since you didn't
mention it.

Are we to guess HOW you are deleting the messages? If you permanently
delete an item then it will never be shown again anywhere in Outlook.
There are 2 ways to permanently delete an item:

- Use Shift+Del to permanently delete an item.
(Del key *moves* items into the Deleted Items folder so they have not
been deleted. Shift+Del really deletes them).
- Delete the item from the Deleted Items folder.

You also don't mention WHERE you are deleting the items. Are you
actually in the Inbox folder or are you deleting an item from a search
folder? Could be the search is including the Deleted Items folder so
the item tracks to there (so it shows in the search folder) so when you
delete then you are deleting from the Deleted Items folder thus doing a
permanent delete.

In OL2003, under Tools -> Options -> Other -> Advanced Options, do you
have the option *enabled* to warn when you are trying to permanently
delete an item?

Do you have AutoArchive enabled (both as the global "on" option and also
enabled as a property on the folders, like on the Deleted Items folder)?

 

[Keith]

Haven't a clue WHICH version of Outlook that you use since you didn't
mention it.
2007

Are we to guess HOW you are deleting the messages? If you permanently
delete an item then it will never be shown again anywhere in Outlook.
There are 2 ways to permanently delete an item:

- Use Shift+Del to permanently delete an item.
(Del key *moves* items into the Deleted Items folder so they have not
been deleted. Shift+Del really deletes them).
- Delete the item from the Deleted Items folder.

By clicking "X" (Delete), on the tool bar of opened item within the Inbox.

You also don't mention WHERE you are deleting the items. Are you
actually in the Inbox folder or are you deleting an item from a search
folder? Could be the search is including the Deleted Items folder so
the item tracks to there (so it shows in the search folder) so when you
delete then you are deleting from the Deleted Items folder thus doing a
permanent delete.

From opened item within the Inbox. Search function/folder not used.

In OL2003, under Tools -> Options -> Other -> Advanced Options, do you
have the option *enabled* to warn when you are trying to permanently
delete an item?
Yes.

Do you have AutoArchive enabled (both as the global "on" option and also
enabled as a property on the folders, like on the Deleted Items folder)?

No.

 

[VanguardLH]

By clicking "X" (Delete), on the tool bar of opened item within the Inbox.


From opened item within the Inbox. Search function/folder not used.


No.

What security software to you employ? Some integrate with e-mail
clients to alter their behavior.

What *view* are you using on the Deleted Items folder? Is it a
customized view? If so, have you tried using a standard (included) view
or resetting the customized view?

 

[Keith]

What security software to you employ? Some integrate with e-mail
clients to alter their behavior.

MS Security Essentials.

What *view* are you using on the Deleted Items folder? Is it a
customized view? If so, have you tried using a standard (included) view
or resetting the customized view?

Standard view.

 

[VanguardLH]

VanguardLH wrote ...


Standard view.

For Outlook 2007, I don't see a "Standard" item listed in the View ->
Current View menu, as shown at:

http://w4tts.com/Outlook2007NewMessagesEmailsnotBold.aspx

When I said a "standard" view, I meant one of those (with non-customized
settings) that are included in the install of Outlook, not one that you
have customized or a new view created from user-specified criteria.

 

[Keith]

For Outlook 2007, I don't see a "Standard" item listed in the View ->
Current View menu, as shown at:

http://w4tts.com/Outlook2007NewMessagesEmailsnotBold.aspx

When I said a "standard" view, I meant one of those (with non-customized
settings) that are included in the install of Outlook, not one that you
have customized or a new view created from user-specified criteria.

When I replied "Standard" I should have said "Not customised" (Not
customized in American English), not user-created; just as standard install.

 

[VanguardLH]

When I replied "Standard" I should have said "Not customised" (Not
customized in American English), not user-created; just as standard install.

So it's a secret for WHICH standard view is used on the Deleted Items
folder? For example, if you select the Unread Messages view then you
won't see any messages that have been read. If all messages moved into
the Deleted Items folder have been read and you use the Unread Messages
view on that folder then it will appear empty. Do you see anything
appear in the Deleted Items folder if you select the Messages view for
it?

 

[Keith]

So it's a secret for WHICH standard view is used on the Deleted Items
folder? For example, if you select the Unread Messages view then you
won't see any messages that have been read. If all messages moved into
the Deleted Items folder have been read and you use the Unread Messages
view on that folder then it will appear empty. Do you see anything
appear in the Deleted Items folder if you select the Messages view for
it?

Checked with user (back from vacation): Outlook 2003 (11.8325.8324) SP3 and,
under "Current View", only "Messages" is ticked.

 

[VanguardLH]

Checked with user (back from vacation): Outlook 2003 (11.8325.8324) SP3 and,
under "Current View", only "Messages" is ticked.

POP or IMAP account type?

If IMAP, did this user use the webmail client to their account to see if
there are items still listed in the Deleted Items folder? I don't use
IMAP accounts and don't recall if the Deleted Items folder is one of
those included by default in the synchronizing of the server and client
folders.

Do the use the auto-archive feature of Outlook? If so, maybe the
archive period expired that was configured for the Deleted Items folder
and it got cleaned out as configured.

 

[Keith]

POP or IMAP account type?

If IMAP, did this user use the webmail client to their account to see if
there are items still listed in the Deleted Items folder? I don't use
IMAP accounts and don't recall if the Deleted Items folder is one of
those included by default in the synchronizing of the server and client
folders.

Do the use the auto-archive feature of Outlook? If so, maybe the
archive period expired that was configured for the Deleted Items folder
and it got cleaned out as configured.

POP account type.
Auto-archive not used.

 

[VanguardLH]

VanguardLH wrote ...


POP account type.
Auto-archive not used.

Look at Tools -> Options -> Other and check if the option "Empty the
Deleted Items folder upon exiting" is enabled. I forgot about this
option since I always use auto-archive to keep the items around for a
month and then purge them out of the database (.pst file). Some users
only want a recovery window to retrieve "deleted" (moved) items during
the current Outlook session and do the cleanup when they exit Outlook.
Others just let the junk pile up in the Deleted Items folder until they
decide to do the manual cleanup. Some use auto-archive to enlarge the
recovery window but still end up doing cleanup eventually. You said the
items are not *going* into the Deleted Items folder. Perhaps what is
really happening is they do go there but get wiped when the user exits
Outlook and then later expects those items to still be in that folder.

If this doesn't do it then I suggest the user is lying to you, has
selective memory in not recalling that they actually deleted all the
items in their Deleted Items folder or installed something that does the
cleanup, or really isn't doing the checking that you ask of them. I've
had lots of users tell me that "nothing changed" but then I discover
(usually because I inspect the host) that they installed several
programs, made a tech call and followed some advice to change settings
or the registry, and so on which they somehow happen to forget when
describing their problem.

First it was "I" (you) reporting the problem for yourself. Then it
became "the user" (someone else) that has the problem. Have the user
come here and describe their problem in their own words without having
to use an intermediary to relay the information. The user might be
doing something that they haven't told you because they forgot or
thought it wasn't relevant.

 

[Keith]

Look at Tools -> Options -> Other and check if the option "Empty the
Deleted Items folder upon exiting" is enabled. I forgot about this

Already investigated this - option ot activated.

option since I always use auto-archive to keep the items around for a
month and then purge them out of the database (.pst file). Some users
only want a recovery window to retrieve "deleted" (moved) items during
the current Outlook session and do the cleanup when they exit Outlook.
Others just let the junk pile up in the Deleted Items folder until they
decide to do the manual cleanup. Some use auto-archive to enlarge the
recovery window but still end up doing cleanup eventually. You said the
items are not *going* into the Deleted Items folder. Perhaps what is
really happening is they do go there but get wiped when the user exits
Outlook and then later expects those items to still be in that folder.

If this doesn't do it then I suggest the user is lying to you, has
selective memory in not recalling that they actually deleted all the
items in their Deleted Items folder or installed something that does the
cleanup, or really isn't doing the checking that you ask of them. I've
had lots of users tell me that "nothing changed" but then I discover
(usually because I inspect the host) that they installed several
programs, made a tech call and followed some advice to change settings
or the registry, and so on which they somehow happen to forget when
describing their problem.

First it was "I" (you) reporting the problem for yourself. Then it
became "the user" (someone else) that has the problem.

User is a friend, who bought a new (Windows 7) PC. Supplier migrated
Outlook Express items (from his XP machine) to new hardware and Outlook
[Office 2003 (11.8325.8324) SP 3], which, by sheer coincidence, is what I
use for my email (but I am using XP Home). When I delete an item (either
delete button, X, whilst in the email or highliting the item in Inbox and
pressing the Delete key on keyboard) it goes to my Deleted Items folder. For
my friend they go, but not to Deleted Items, or any other folder.
Verbally, we have checked all Options, Customise, View, Rules & Alerts....
throughout Outlook and they are reported to be the same as I have here - all
done before posing my original query.

Have the user come here and describe their problem in their own words
without having
to use an intermediary to relay the information. The user might be
doing something that they haven't told you because they forgot or
thought it wasn't relevant.

This is a possibility, I would have to visit to see how Outlook was being
used.
It could be something the PC dealer did upon setting up the Win 7 machine; I
have just read that a tool for migrating between O/Ss (WET - Windows Easy
Transfer) is used by some dealers and that it may get a little confused,
depending on the settings of the source computer. I do not know details of
how the new PC was setup and my friend (who asked for all his OE folders &
options and IE Favorites to be migrated) would not know whether his supplier
was entirely accurate with any responses to questions regarding the
migration process.

I have suggested to my friend that the problem be referred to his supplier.
According the MS website, this version of Outlook is totally compatible with
Windows 7 - and I have just run Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor on my XP and get
the same answer.

 

[VanguardLH]

Have this user reboot Windows into its safe mode (with networking). See
if Outlook then behaves properly for deleted items.

Another possibility: a damaged profile. Have the user create a new
profile (Mail applet in Control Panel) and see if deleted items go into
the Deleted Items folder (assuming the view and options are all
configured to their defaults for that profile). When creating a new
mail profile, the user will have to recreate the e-mail accounts to
which Outlook connects. Each mail profile has its own set of accounts.

Creating a new profile creates a new message store (.pst file). If the
new profile works properly, make it the default message store (i.e., to
where new items get delivered). Then load the old message store (.pst
file) via File -> Open menu. Then drag over its items into the new
message store. Then unload (close) the old profile and continue on
using the new profile into which items got dragged (migrated).

 

[Keith]

Have this user reboot Windows into its safe mode (with networking). See
if Outlook then behaves properly for deleted items.

Will talk them through this.

Another possibility: a damaged profile. Have the user create a new
profile (Mail applet in Control Panel) and see if deleted items go into
the Deleted Items folder (assuming the view and options are all
configured to their defaults for that profile). When creating a new
mail profile, the user will have to recreate the e-mail accounts to
which Outlook connects. Each mail profile has its own set of accounts.

Creating a new profile creates a new message store (.pst file). If the
new profile works properly, make it the default message store (i.e., to
where new items get delivered). Then load the old message store (.pst
file) via File -> Open menu. Then drag over its items into the new
message store. Then unload (close) the old profile and continue on
using the new profile into which items got dragged (migrated).

Would need to visit user to do this. Will arrange if safe mode don't fix the
problem.
BFYA, I would export all their Personal Folders to a backup location prior
creating a new profile.

 

[VanguardLH]

Will talk them through this.


Would need to visit user to do this. Will arrange if safe mode don't fix the
problem.
BFYA, I would export all their Personal Folders to a backup location prior
creating a new profile.

Hopefully the user is doing backups. Yeah, I know, when you ask about
their backups, you often get users that look like deer stunned in the
road looking at your headlights. Not backing up means you/they deem
their data as worthless or reproducible. Their backup should include
the .pst file(s). If they do image backups (versus file or logical
backups) then the registry's .dat files should also be included to
retain the account definitions. If they aren't backing up, now would be
a good time to inform them that it really is a necessity. All hardware
eventually breaks, especially mechanical devices, like hard disks.
Paragon has a freebie they could use if they don't want to buy one
(http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/). Macrium Reflect has
a free edition (only saw a trial on their site, free edition found at
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Back-Up-and-Recovery/Macrium-Reflect-Free-Edition.shtml).
I've haven't used either one (I use Acronis TrueImage).

If they don't want to go with backup software (hey, some people like
risk since they don't have exciting lives otherwise), there's the
Outlook Personal Folders Backup add-on from Microsoft. See
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyId=8B081F3A-B7D0-4B16-B8AF-5A6322F4FD01.
While this gives them a backup, they only get ONE backup. Each backup
overwrites the prior one. Real backups would allow multiple old
versions for restore. The last (and only) version might not be what you
want or be just as broke as the broken one you have now.

 

[thecreator]

Hi Keith,

A lot of information is lacking. I read the thread.

How many Email Accounts does the user have in Outlook 2003?

For each Email Account, Pop or otherwise, answering from Outlook 2007,
Outlook duplicates InBox, Deleted Items, Drafts, Outbox. It get deleted to
the Deleted Items Folder of the Email Account. This is especially true for
IMAP where the folders are sync'ed.

 

[Keith]

Hopefully the user is doing backups. Yeah, I know, when you ask about
their backups, you often get users that look like deer stunned in the
road looking at your headlights. Not backing up means you/they deem
their data as worthless or reproducible. Their backup should include
the .pst file(s). If they do image backups (versus file or logical
backups) then the registry's .dat files should also be included to
retain the account definitions. If they aren't backing up, now would be
a good time to inform them that it really is a necessity. All hardware
eventually breaks, especially mechanical devices, like hard disks.
Paragon has a freebie they could use if they don't want to buy one
(http://www.paragon-software.com/home/db-express/). Macrium Reflect has
a free edition (only saw a trial on their site, free edition found at
http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Back-Up-and-Recovery/Macrium-Reflect-Free-Edition.shtml).
I've haven't used either one (I use Acronis TrueImage).

If they don't want to go with backup software (hey, some people like
risk since they don't have exciting lives otherwise), there's the
Outlook Personal Folders Backup add-on from Microsoft. See
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyId=8B081F3A-B7D0-4B16-B8AF-5A6322F4FD01.
While this gives them a backup, they only get ONE backup. Each backup
overwrites the prior one. Real backups would allow multiple old
versions for restore. The last (and only) version might not be what you
want or be just as broke as the broken one you have now.

The users technical ability is limited to IE for banking & visiting the
website of their local bridge club and Outlook to send & receive emails.
They do not backup.

Meanwhile, I (who does a back up to an external disc using Drive Image
weekly as well as backing up my .pst file to a second disc in my PC, and
keeping a current Bart PE cd handy) am, suddenly, unable to access both
hotmail.com and tomtom.com websites. Solving this problem is my priority; I
have told user to have his PC supplier solve his deleted items problem -
after all, they performed the transfer from an XP machine to the Windows 7
machine they sold to the user.

 

[Peter Foldes]

deadhead from egghead

--
Peter
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