Default view of folders reverts back to previous settings.

[Jeff Ingram]

Hello,

The default view of folders sometimes reverts back to previous settings.
I've setup a folder with the view that I'd like for all of my folders, with
Details, Size, Create Date, & Modified Date (turned off Tag since it's of no
use to me whatsoever since I can't use it for MPEGS, AVIs, or Real files)
and then clicked Tools/Folder Options, then clicked the View tab and under
Folder Views, where it says: You can apply the view (such as Details or
Icons) that your are using for this folder to all folders of this type. I
click the "Apply to Folders" button.

Later I'll come back to that very same folder and the view has changed. And
not all of the other folders on the system have taken on those same
settings.

I know in XP all I had to do was the same procedure that I outlined above
and I could get all my folders to look the same.

What gives with Vista?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

'Apply to Folders' in Vista works on a per-template basis. Different
defaults can be saved for 'All Items', 'Documents', 'Pictures & Video', etc.
You need to be sure of what template the current folder is using before
using 'Apply to Folders'.

This also means that the default will only be applied to folders of that
type.

As for a specific folder forgetting it's view, folder views are unique based
on the namespace path to the folder -- the saved view for
'Desktop\UserName\Pictures' has no bearing on the view of
'Desktop\Computer\c:\Users\UserName\Pictures', it can remember different
view settings -- even use a different template. So make sure that's not the
cause of the discrepancy that you are seeing.

If that's not it, post back. Lots of things we can check!

 

[Jeff Ingram]

Thanks for the reply. I'll have to look at it a little more closely...


Thanks,

Jeff

'Apply to Folders' in Vista works on a per-template basis. Different
defaults can be saved for 'All Items', 'Documents', 'Pictures & Video',
etc.
You need to be sure of what template the current folder is using before
using 'Apply to Folders'.

This also means that the default will only be applied to folders of that
type.

As for a specific folder forgetting it's view, folder views are unique
based on the namespace path to the folder -- the saved view for
'Desktop\UserName\Pictures' has no bearing on the view of
'Desktop\Computer\c:\Users\UserName\Pictures', it can remember different
view settings -- even use a different template. So make sure that's not
the cause of the discrepancy that you are seeing.

If that's not it, post back. Lots of things we can check!


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

Hello,

The default view of folders sometimes reverts back to previous settings.
I've setup a folder with the view that I'd like for all of my folders,
with
Details, Size, Create Date, & Modified Date (turned off Tag since it's of
no
use to me whatsoever since I can't use it for MPEGS, AVIs, or Real files)
and then clicked Tools/Folder Options, then clicked the View tab and
under
Folder Views, where it says: You can apply the view (such as Details or
Icons) that your are using for this folder to all folders of this type.
I
click the "Apply to Folders" button.

Later I'll come back to that very same folder and the view has changed.
And
not all of the other folders on the system have taken on those same
settings.

I know in XP all I had to do was the same procedure that I outlined above
and I could get all my folders to look the same.

What gives with Vista?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Guest]

Jeff, I am having this exact same issue and, coincidentaly, I just found out
what Keith explained today. I've changed my Downloads folder from
C:\Users\[username]\Downloads to E:\Downloads. So if I go to this folder
through this path: click E:\ drive then Downloads folder, it gives me a view.
If I go to this folder through clicking on my user name and then downloads it
gives me another view. To tell you the truth, it is a bit annoying.

I've always wished that Windows stored folder settings (whether it is
Documents, Pictures, Videos, All Files, etc) in the desktop.ini file, where
it stores the folder's custom icon. It would also help to save folder
settings through formats. I believe Windows stores these settings on the
registry, right? For that reason I disabe "Remember each folder's view
settings" so that my registry doesn't get too big. Sometime I change some of
the folder's settings (like the width of the colums) so that I can see the
full filename, for example. Imagine if Windows stores all these settings in
the registry, for all the folders I change during my Windows installation
lifetime! Including those folders I delete (does Windows delete their custom
settings too? I don't think so).

I didn't like the way Windows XP handled these customizations, I don't like
the way Vista does it either.

Andre

'Apply to Folders' in Vista works on a per-template basis. Different
defaults can be saved for 'All Items', 'Documents', 'Pictures & Video', etc.
You need to be sure of what template the current folder is using before
using 'Apply to Folders'.

This also means that the default will only be applied to folders of that
type.

As for a specific folder forgetting it's view, folder views are unique based
on the namespace path to the folder -- the saved view for
'Desktop\UserName\Pictures' has no bearing on the view of
'Desktop\Computer\c:\Users\UserName\Pictures', it can remember different
view settings -- even use a different template. So make sure that's not the
cause of the discrepancy that you are seeing.

If that's not it, post back. Lots of things we can check!


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

Hello,

The default view of folders sometimes reverts back to previous settings.
I've setup a folder with the view that I'd like for all of my folders,
with
Details, Size, Create Date, & Modified Date (turned off Tag since it's of
no
use to me whatsoever since I can't use it for MPEGS, AVIs, or Real files)
and then clicked Tools/Folder Options, then clicked the View tab and under
Folder Views, where it says: You can apply the view (such as Details or
Icons) that your are using for this folder to all folders of this type. I
click the "Apply to Folders" button.

Later I'll come back to that very same folder and the view has changed.
And
not all of the other folders on the system have taken on those same
settings.

I know in XP all I had to do was the same procedure that I outlined above
and I could get all my folders to look the same.

What gives with Vista?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

Jeff, I am having this exact same issue and, coincidentaly, I just found
out
what Keith explained today. I've changed my Downloads folder from
C:\Users\[username]\Downloads to E:\Downloads. So if I go to this folder
through this path: click E:\ drive then Downloads folder, it gives me a
view.
If I go to this folder through clicking on my user name and then downloads
it
gives me another view. To tell you the truth, it is a bit annoying.

But once you've set the view for each path, they'll be remembered.

I've always wished that Windows stored folder settings (whether it is
Documents, Pictures, Videos, All Files, etc) in the desktop.ini file,
where
it stores the folder's custom icon. It would also help to save folder
settings through formats.

A limited amount of View info can/is stored in desktop.ini. Folder
Template, Icon Style, & Thumbnail Pic. The problem with view settings is
that they are intended to be per-user. If you start to think about a
desktop.ini type file for each user on a network where 100+ users may access
the folder, you'll see how that's a lot of filesystem space & clutter.

I believe Windows stores these settings on the
registry, right?
Yes

For that reason I disabe "Remember each folder's view
settings" so that my registry doesn't get too big.

The 'Remember each folders view settings' could more aptly be named 'Recall
each folders view settings'. If you turn it off, the saved settings for the
folder you first open are applied to that view -- as well as any folder you
browse to from that window -- i.e. the view settings stay the same while
browsing. The view settings from that first folder are also saved as the
view
settings for any folder you browse through. So you're not saving much
registry space.

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

Post back with results, please.


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

Thanks for the reply. I'll have to look at it a little more closely...


Thanks,

Jeff

'Apply to Folders' in Vista works on a per-template basis. Different
defaults can be saved for 'All Items', 'Documents', 'Pictures & Video',
etc.
You need to be sure of what template the current folder is using before
using 'Apply to Folders'.

This also means that the default will only be applied to folders of that
type.

As for a specific folder forgetting it's view, folder views are unique
based on the namespace path to the folder -- the saved view for
'Desktop\UserName\Pictures' has no bearing on the view of
'Desktop\Computer\c:\Users\UserName\Pictures', it can remember different
view settings -- even use a different template. So make sure that's not
the cause of the discrepancy that you are seeing.

If that's not it, post back. Lots of things we can check!


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

Hello,

The default view of folders sometimes reverts back to previous settings.
I've setup a folder with the view that I'd like for all of my folders,
with
Details, Size, Create Date, & Modified Date (turned off Tag since it's
of no
use to me whatsoever since I can't use it for MPEGS, AVIs, or Real
files)
and then clicked Tools/Folder Options, then clicked the View tab and
under
Folder Views, where it says: You can apply the view (such as Details or
Icons) that your are using for this folder to all folders of this type.
I
click the "Apply to Folders" button.

Later I'll come back to that very same folder and the view has changed.
And
not all of the other folders on the system have taken on those same
settings.

I know in XP all I had to do was the same procedure that I outlined
above
and I could get all my folders to look the same.

What gives with Vista?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Guest]

But once you've set the view for each path, they'll be remembered.

Right. But you have to agree with me that it is a bit annoying having to set
your "personal" folders view twice. Specially because most of them are
customized as Templates (nice name) such as Documents, Photos, Videos, etc.
So setting one template should customize them all, like you said. This is
something I can live with. The trouble is that when I insert a DVD, for
instance, the DVD files are shown as Tiles, the Windows default. I've created
a new folder, just today (before I discovered that different paths would
result in different views) and it was also showing as Tiles and, what's
worse, it was "sorted" by file types (that blue line separating the files),
something that I never use, besides on the Computer folder. I felt like
Windows applied a completely random view and sorting, since I didn't use any
templates on that folder and I didn't customize it (I had just created it).
This is the second annoying thing.

If you start to think about a
desktop.ini type file for each user on a network where 100+ users may access
the folder, you'll see how that's a lot of filesystem space & clutter.

That, I agree with you. But still, the way Windows handles these
customizations bothers me, ever since Windows XP (and now I believe this same
problem will still haunt me). I know Windows stores a limited amount of
folders customizations. So the more I use my computer, the messy it gets.
Soon, say three months from now, my Pictures folder will be viewed as
Details, my Videos as small thumbnails, my Music as Tiles, not to mention the
other folders I have somehow configured. All because I committed the sin of
pulling the Name column a little bit on an old folder I deleted just to see
the filenames better and Windows stored that and erased my customizations. So
there I go customizing everything again.

The view settings from that first folder are also saved as the
view
settings for any folder you browse through. So you're not saving much
registry space.

This is bad news. So I'm better off with that setting turned on. Who knows
how long my customizations on my favourite, persistent folders will last
until Windows decides to wipe them out.

You see, my only real complaint here is that Windows won't simply apply
"Details" view for all Folders, except the ones I customize differently. I
don't want a simple column resizing, or a column sorting, or a column
positioning to ruin my customization on the other folders I have. If I can do
that and somebody tells me how, I will be really grateful.

Andre

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

Right. But you have to agree with me that it is a bit annoying having to
set
your "personal" folders view twice. Specially because most of them are
customized as Templates (nice name) such as Documents, Photos, Videos,
etc.
So setting one template should customize them all, like you said. This is
something I can live with. The trouble is that when I insert a DVD, for
instance, the DVD files are shown as Tiles, the Windows default.

Well, I just popped a data CD in my CD drive, and that came up in the
grouped, tiled mode you describe. A peek at 'Customize this folder' showed
its template to be 'All Items'. I ungrouped it & set the view to details,
then used the 'Apply to Folders' option. I then ejected the CD, opened &
closed some other folders, then inserted a different CD. It displayed with
the view settings I had applied. It does use a weird template, though:
{57807898-8C4F-4462-BB63-71042380B109}
Which is not the same template that applies to ordinary file folders using
the 'All Items' template. This one appears to be 'shared' -- folders that
can set or are affected by it include: Desktop, Computer, &
Desktop\UserName.

Templates set by 'Apply to Folders' are found under:

"HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Streams\Defaults"

If you want to see what affects what.

I've created
a new folder, just today (before I discovered that different paths would
result in different views) and it was also showing as Tiles and, what's
worse, it was "sorted" by file types (that blue line separating the
files),
something that I never use, besides on the Computer folder. I felt like
Windows applied a completely random view and sorting, since I didn't use
any
templates on that folder and I didn't customize it (I had just created
it).

But once you configure it to your liking & use 'Apply to Folders', the next
new folder you create will use your custom template.

This is the second annoying thing.


That, I agree with you. But still, the way Windows handles these
customizations bothers me, ever since Windows XP (and now I believe this
same
problem will still haunt me).

Remember that pre-SP2 XP had a default limit of 400 saved views -- that was
rather small. The default in Vista is 5000.

You see, my only real complaint here is that Windows won't simply apply
"Details" view for all Folders, except the ones I customize differently.

I think if every time a folder pops up in something other than detail view,
you take a moment to set it to details & use 'Apply to Folders', you'll soon
find you've got all your templates set the way you like.

Here's a sampling of templates to look for under the 'Defaults' key:

NotSpecified - {5C4F28B5-F869-4E84-8E60-F11DB97C5CC7} - All Items (File
Folders)
Documents - {7D49D726-3C21-4F05-99AA-FDC2C9474656} - Documents
Pictures - {B3690E58-E961-423B-B687-386EBFD83239} - Picutures and Video
Music - {AF9C03D6-7DB9-4A15-9464-13BF9FB69A2A} - Music Details
MusicIcons - {0B7467FB-84BA-4AAE-A09B-15B71097AF9E} - Music Icons
Contacts - {DE2B70EC-9BF7-4A93-BD3D-243F7881D492} - Contacts

Desktop, Desktop\UserName, Computer - {57807898-8C4F-4462-BB63-71042380B109}
Control Classic - {0C3794F3-B545-43AA-A329-C37430C58D2A}
Network - {25CC242B-9A7C-4F51-80E0-7A2928FEBE42}

I don't want a simple column resizing, or a column sorting, or a column
positioning to ruin my customization on the other folders I have. If I can
do
that and somebody tells me how, I will be really grateful.

I think you'll be pretty happy once you get the various defaults set.

If you want to go one step further and override content-sniffing (where
Explorer makes its best guess at which template to use), here are my
instructions to force the 'All Items' template on all folders.

Copy the text between the lines below into notepad & save as a .reg file.
Watch out for line wrap -- [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\...\Shell] is all one line,
there is a space between 'Local' and 'Settings'.

--------------------------------------------------
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Classes\Local
Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags\AllFolders\Shell]
"FolderType"="NotSpecified"

--------------------------------------------------

Merging the .reg file will set the 'All Items' template for any folders that
don't currently have a view saved with a different template. You can clear
all saved views by deleting the

"HKCU\Software\Classes\Local Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags"

key BEFORE merging the .reg file. If any folders open with a different
template after clearing the 'Bags' key & merging the .reg file, they most
likely have a template specified via their desktop.ini file.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 14:38:02 -0700, Andre

Jeff, I am having this exact same issue and, coincidentaly, I just found out
what Keith explained today. I've changed my Downloads folder from
C:\Users\[username]\Downloads to E:\Downloads.

Results can vary depending on exactly how you did this. Did you:
- edit registry directly via Regedit?
- use a 3rd-party tweaker?
- rt-drag the location to E:, Move, and possibly rename it there?
- rt-click the namespace object and change the Location property?
- other?

If you navigate into the User namespace, do you see one Downloads
object, or two? If two, do they have different icons and locations?

through this path: click E:\ drive then Downloads folder, it gives me a view.
If I go to this folder through clicking on my user name and then downloads it
gives me another view. To tell you the truth, it is a bit annoying.

Are the locations the same, i.e. if you create a file in one, does it
show up in the other?

Are the Desktop.ini files in both "locations" the same? Test this by
copying the Desktop.ini to another place, and then comparing the two.

There may be forward and backward references involved here:
- from namespace object to file system location via CLSID
- from file system location to namespace object via Desktop.ini

I've always wished that Windows stored folder settings (whether it is
Documents, Pictures, Videos, All Files, etc) in the desktop.ini file, where
it stores the folder's custom icon. It would also help to save folder
settings through formats. I believe Windows stores these settings on the
registry, right?

I remember raising this with Raymond Chen back in the Win95 days,
before IE4/Win98 did much Desktop.ini stuff.

My point was that it avoid breaking the "don't store unbounded
instance data in finite global storage" rule, which was already
raising it's head in Win95 ("why do my folder settings get lost?").

His point was to ask how this would work with removable storage,
mapped network drives, multiple users etc. which he rightly suspected
I had not considered. Still, it might scale better to reproduce that
into in each Desktop.ini than try to hold that content in the
registry, and since then, Desktop.ini has become the repositor for
much of that information.

The danger with Desktop.ini (already present) is that it might provide
a mechanism to integrate dropped malware. This risk makes every
full-shared location an infection risk, and if Desktop.ini is
processed on LAN shares and removable disks, it gets worse.

This is not very relevant to your idea, because changing the view is
less dangerous than things already facilitated by Desktop.ini

For that reason I disabe "Remember each folder's view
settings" so that my registry doesn't get too big.

I avoid the Icon views for the same reason, in case moving one icon to
different (x,y) co-ordinates in the folder view should cause these to
be remembered for all 10 000 items in the folder.

Two things to bear in mind:

1) Vista's default views vary with content

In earlier Windows, whatever view you set as default would apply to
all locations, unless some other setting was "remembered" for that
location. But Vista has different default views depending on whether
it is a "music", "pictures", "general" etc. folder, and this in turn
may depend on the files present.

So adding a single .JPG may to what used to be a "general" folder into
"pictures" behavior, and thus a Thumbnails default view.

2) Namespace and directory settings may vary and/or clash

I'm not sure how these correlate, and they'd certainly be separated
out if the location you use as Downloads is not actually tracked as
the location for the Downloads namespace object.

It's interesting you say YMMV depending on whether you navigate via
the Users object or the E:\ file system location. I'd expect that
from XP experience, but Vista usually applies namespace rather than
file system properties, even if you navigate via the file system.

For example, let's say the namespace object Users\You\Downloads points
to the file system location E:\BLOB. You'd expect to see "Downloads"
if navigating via Users, and "Blob" if navigating from E:, but in
practice, you see E:\Downloads, not E:\BLOB.

Sometime I change some of the folder's settings (like the width
of the colums) so that I can see the full filename, for example.
Imagine if Windows stores all these settings in the registry, for
all the folders I change during my Windows installation lifetime!

That's pretty much what it does, though it will FIFO out the earliest
ones so that only the last XXX views are remembered - at least, that's
how it worked from Win95 throught to XP, with only the number of
"remembered" folders increasing over the years.

I don't know if Vista is any different in this respect.

I didn't like the way Windows XP handled these customizations, I don't like
the way Vista does it either.

To me, these frills are almost more hassle than they are worth. I
want List view everywhere, with a minimum of unsolicited content
groping, but that is at odds with the direction of Vista's quest to
"make it easier" and be more effective/powerful.

Mind you, I can see the value in some of these things, especially for
those with only the OS in default form (i.e. they don't have things
like Irfan View installed and integrated).

The risk is that the more stuff is groped automatically, the easier it
is for malware to find an exploitable surface.

-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

Tip Of The Day:
To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

To me, these frills are almost more hassle than they are worth. I
want List view everywhere, with a minimum of unsolicited content
groping, but that is at odds with the direction of Vista's quest to
"make it easier" and be more effective/powerful.

Set the list view for a folder that's using the 'All Items' template, then
use 'Apply to Folders'. Then override content-sniffing with my 'AllFolders'
regedit:

Copy the text between the lines below into notepad & save as a .reg file.
Watch out for line wrap -- [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\...\Shell] is all one line,
there is a space between 'Local' and 'Settings'.

--------------------------------------------------
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Classes\Local
Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags\AllFolders\Shell]
"FolderType"="NotSpecified"

--------------------------------------------------

Merging the .reg file will set the 'All Items' template for any folders that
don't currently have a view saved with a different template. You can clear
all saved views by deleting the

"HKCU\Software\Classes\Local Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags"

key BEFORE merging the .reg file. If any folders open with a different
template after clearing the 'Bags' key & merging the .reg file, they most
likely have a template specified via their desktop.ini file.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"

Set the list view for a folder that's using the 'All Items' template, then
use 'Apply to Folders'. Then override content-sniffing with my 'AllFolders'

--------------------------------------------------
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Classes\Local
Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags\AllFolders\Shell]
"FolderType"="NotSpecified"

--------------------------------------------------

Merging the .reg file will set the 'All Items' template for any folders that
don't currently have a view saved with a different template. You can clear
all saved views by deleting the

"HKCU\Software\Classes\Local Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags"

key BEFORE merging the .reg file. If any folders open with a different
template after clearing the 'Bags' key & merging the .reg file, they most
likely have a template specified via their desktop.ini file.

Ahh... thanks! I'm a bit confused on the details of how behaviors are
linked to locations; is it all from file system to behaviors via
Desktop.ini, or all forward from CLSIDs to locations, or a combination
of the two? Because it seems to come unstuck easily...

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

 

[Guest]

I think if every time a folder pops up in something other than detail view,
you take a moment to set it to details & use 'Apply to Folders', you'll soon
find you've got all your templates set the way you like.

I think you'll be pretty happy once you get the various defaults set.

If you want to go one step further and override content-sniffing (where
Explorer makes its best guess at which template to use), here are my
instructions to force the 'All Items' template on all folders.

Ah, now that's something. I've been customizing my folders, indeed. And
disabling the content-sniffing is great. I'll give it a try. Thank you very
much, Keith.

cquirke, on your questions:

Results can vary depending on exactly how you did this. Did you:
- edit registry directly via Regedit?
- use a 3rd-party tweaker?
- rt-drag the location to E:, Move, and possibly rename it there?
- rt-click the namespace object and change the Location property?
- other?

I changed the location of the "special folders" (Documents, Music, etc)
using the provided Location tab on the folder's properties, that is included
on Vista. I removed the duplicated by allowing Vista to move the contents
from the old folder to the new one. Vista does the job well.

My only quarrel over this customization scheme is what I explained before,
and I think Keith got it. I'll give some more details.

I customize my Downloads folder (that contais all kinds of files) to view
with Details, with the filesize column right next to the name column. I use
this customization as my default customization for all folders except
Documents, Pictures, Videos and Music. I'm glad that when I hit "Apply to all
Folders" on Folder Options, Vista will apply it only to the other folders
that share the same Template. XP applies to all folders indeed, removing my
customizations to the folders I mentioned above.

What I wanted, and Vista doesn't do, is to have the same customization on my
Downloads folder applied to a new folder I create, or to a DVD I insert. And
what would be ideal, wicked, smoking ( ) was if Windows ignored any
temporary customization I make on these folders. For example, I insert a DVD
and it shows as Details (like my default Downloads folder). But some files on
this DVD have big names, so I pull the name column a little bit to view them.
If I closed Explorer's window and reopened it, Windows would default back to
my Downloads folder customization. Now, I know Microsoft wants to help us, so
Windows memorizes the DVD folder customization and when I come back the name
column will be as wide as I had set. That would be ok *IF* Windows didn't
lose any customization I made on other folders. One day (that day already
reached me on Vista, unfortunately) I'll lose my customization on my
Downloads folder. So I'll have to set it all again. When I do that, I'll lose
my customizations on the Documents folder, so I set it again. Then I lose my
customization on my Pictures folder, and so on.

What I think would be a nice idea was if Windows stored a customization for
each folder I change, no matter how many of them there is. If I created a new
folder, then Windows would apply a default template to it (I can customize
this template). If I modified this folder then Windows would store its
proprietary settings in the registy. If I deleted this folder, Windows would
delete its customization from the registry as well. Removable storage could
have a session customization that would be stored as long as the media was
inserted. When the media is removed so are the settings and the default one
is applied when a new media is inserted.

That's just an idea. Since I can't have it, I need to find a way to "bend"
Windows functionality to make it as close as possible. Thank you again for
your help.

Andre

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"

Set the list view for a folder that's using the 'All Items' template, then
use 'Apply to Folders'. Then override content-sniffing with my
'AllFolders'

--------------------------------------------------
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Classes\Local
Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\Bags\AllFolders\Shell]
"FolderType"="NotSpecified"

--------------------------------------------------

Merging the .reg file will set the 'All Items' template for any folders
that
don't currently have a view saved with a different template. You can
clear
all saved views by deleting the

key BEFORE merging the .reg file. If any folders open with a different
template after clearing the 'Bags' key & merging the .reg file, they most
likely have a template specified via their desktop.ini file.

Ahh... thanks! I'm a bit confused on the details of how behaviors are
linked to locations; is it all from file system to behaviors via
Desktop.ini, or all forward from CLSIDs to locations, or a combination
of the two? Because it seems to come unstuck easily...

View behaviors, right?

First & foremost, saved views are dependent on the namespace path, which is
graphically represented in the folder tree in Explorer.

'Desktop\UserName'

can save a view distinct from

'Desktop\Computer\C:\Users\UserName'

If you take a look at:

'HKCU\Software\Classes\Local
Settings\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell\BagMRU'

which is the index to saved views, you'll see that is a tree structure, with
BagMRU corresponding to the Desktop and each numbered subkey representing a
subfolder. If a key has a 'Nodeslot' value, that is the Bag number for the
saved view for that folder.

According to http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms647825.aspx

"By default, if SHGVSPB_INHERIT is not specified and a property bag cannot
be found for the specified folder, the system searches for identically named
property bags in other locations that may be able to provide default values.
For example, the system searches in the ancestors of the folder to see if
any of them provide a SHGVSPB_INHERIT property bag. Other places the system
searches are in the user defaults and the global defaults.

So, when a folder is opened, Explorer first looks for a saved view for that
particular folder. If that does not exist, Explorer works its way back up
the namespace path to see if any of the parents' views have an 'Inherit'
subkey (this is how 'Also apply this template to all subfolders' works). If
there are none, then Explorer checks for 'AllFolders'. If 'AllFolders'
exists and specifies a template, that template is assigned. If no template
is specified or 'AllFolders' doesn't exist, then content sniffing kicks in.
Once Explorer has determined content type, it will look for the template
UUID under 'AllFolders' and then under:
'HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Streams\Defaults'
If those don't exist, then the settings found under:
'HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\FolderTypes'
will be used.

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

cquirke, on your questions:

:>Results can vary depending on exactly how you did this. Did you:
:> - edit registry directly via Regedit?
:> - use a 3rd-party tweaker?
:> - rt-drag the location to E:, Move, and possibly rename it there?
:> - rt-click the namespace object and change the Location property?
:> - other?

I changed the location of the "special folders" (Documents, Music, etc)
using the provided Location tab on the folder's properties, that is included
on Vista. I removed the duplicated by allowing Vista to move the contents
from the old folder to the new one. Vista does the job well.

OK; that's the safest way to do it in my experience, as well. You
should have no inappropriate back-refs from Desktop.ini left in the
old location, and the move should be registry-tracked to update
forward refs (from CLSID to file system) too.

My only quarrel over this customization scheme is what I explained before,
and I think Keith got it. I'll give some more details.

I customize my Downloads folder (that contais all kinds of files) to view
with Details, with the filesize column right next to the name column. I use
this customization as my default customization for all folders except
Documents, Pictures, Videos and Music. I'm glad that when I hit "Apply to all
Folders" on Folder Options, Vista will apply it only to the other folders
that share the same Template. XP applies to all folders indeed, removing my
customizations to the folders I mentioned above.

OK, with you so far...

What I wanted, and Vista doesn't do, is to have the same customization on my
Downloads folder applied to a new folder I create, or to a DVD I insert.

Ah, that's a familiar database concept that the OS writers just don't
seem to get - control over things that don't yet exist.

In database, you often need to lock an item so you can update it,
without another instance (copy) of that item being updated somewhere
else. Typically you have read ops that may or may not lock an item,
and write ops that may or may not release an item, as well as an
explicit unlock operation so that the process can be abandoned.

In order to reduce the critical period (during which an item is
locked), as well as a way to do finer-grained locking (e.g. field
locking rather than record locking), you may do this:
- read-lock item, store in a variable
- release item
- edit item at your own pace
- read-lock item, compare each field with original and edited
- case current = original = edited, release (no write needed)
- case current = original != edited, commit edited
- case current != original = edited, commit current
- case current != original != edited, you have contention:
- commit current
- warn user that changes will be lost
- user can save edited copy locally as "memo" etc.
In the above, "commit" implies also "release lock".

But what if an item doesn't exist, there's nothing to lock, right? I
can just create it and write it, without bothering to check if it's
locked, right? (BTW, a good database language compells you to use
syntax like "read xxxx else if locked do yyyy").

The problem is that an item of same ID may be created while you are
creating yours, so one has to be able to lock items that don't exist.

More to the point, the behaviour applied to items that have not yet
been encountered, has to be controlable. Just as every new user
accound should be born with user-preset behaviors and settings (as
opposed to MS defaults), so every newly-found disk drive etc. should
start off witrh user-defined behaviors.

Given that newly-discovered items arise from outside the system, these
behaviors should be safety-orientated. NOTHING is known, or can be
ASSumed, about a CDR or USB stick that's inserted into the drive, or a
new HD that's discovered in the system! It may not be safe to even
real, let alone write to, or run code from it, etc.

Vista sooooo does not get this... :-(

what would be ideal, wicked, smoking ( ) was if Windows ignored any
temporary customization I make on these folders.

It could track customizations as Win9x tracks changes applied to the
Properties of DOS programs on diskettes. Win9x has a subdir called
"PIF" that stores .PIF for such programs, holding their Properties in
them. It's a bit wonky, in that if you set Properties for a file
called BLOB.EXE in the root of disk A:, and you insert a different
disk with a different file that also happens to be called BLOB.EXE and
it's also in the root, then the second prog gets the first prog's
Properties. Too trusting for the 21st century.

For example, I insert a DVD and it shows as Details (like my default
Downloads folder). But some files on this DVD have big names, so I
pull the name column a little bit to view them.
OK...

If I closed Explorer's window and reopened it, Windows would default back to
my Downloads folder customization.

OK. Prolly better than applying the new wider columns to everything
else that uses "no template".

Now, I know Microsoft wants to help us, so Windows memorizes the
DVD folder customization and when I come back the name column
will be as wide as I had set. That would be ok *IF* Windows didn't
lose any customization I made on other folders.
Yyyyeees....

One day (that day already reached me on Vista, unfortunately) I'll
lose my customization on my Downloads folder. So I'll have to set
it all again. When I do that, I'll lose my customizations on the
Documents folder, so I set it again.

That's a good argument to follow the rule that per-instance data
should be stored per-instance, and not in some finite global store.
The .PIF strategy for removable diskettes mentioned above, violates
this rule; though at least the global store used is not capped, it's
still subject to same-name collisions and spoofability.

What I think would be a nice idea was if Windows stored a customization for
each folder I change, no matter how many of them there is.

That's attainable by storing these in the location itself.

But that way of slicing and dicing causes a scalability and
(spoofability, cross-access) risk somewhere else; what if there are a
large number of different user accounts banging away at the same
stuff? Does a USB stick used in 200 PCs accumulate 200 different
settings? What if users and PCs have the same names?

If I modified this folder then Windows would store its proprietary
settings in the registy.

I don't like to treat the registry as an unlimited resource,
especially for holding trivia such as column widths, so I'd like the
ability to disable such tracking. I'm also nervous about the system
taking orders (even trivial orders) from external material.

If I deleted this folder, Windows would delete its customization from
the registry as well. Removable storage could have a session
customization that would be stored as long as the media was
inserted. When the media is removed so are the settings and
the default one is applied when a new media is inserted.

Ah - so you aren't trying to track changes across sessions for the
same removable storage... I thought that was an objective.

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

"cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"

I'm going to read this reaaaly slowly - great content ahead!

View behaviors, right?
Yep!

First & foremost, saved views are dependent on the namespace path, which is
graphically represented in the folder tree in Explorer.

'Desktop\UserName'

....what I refer to as the "namespace object"

can save a view distinct from

'Desktop\Computer\C:\Users\UserName'

....what I refer to as the "file system location"

In XP, the difference was clear - the one would show the object name
and the other would show the directory name. The contents may or may
not look different and the icon would usually look the same (giving
you feedback that that particular location was "special").

In Vista, things get murky because object (rather than directory)
names are often appended at the end of the file system path.

If you take a look at:

which is the index to saved views, you'll see that is a tree structure, with
BagMRU corresponding to the Desktop and each numbered subkey representing a
subfolder. If a key has a 'Nodeslot' value, that is the Bag number for the
saved view for that folder.

I can't find that in XP SP2 but similar in
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Shell etc.

According to http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms647825.aspx

...when a folder is opened, Explorer first looks for a saved view for that
particular folder. If that does not exist, Explorer works its way back up
the namespace path to see if any of the parents' views have an 'Inherit'
subkey (this is how 'Also apply this template to all subfolders' works). If
there are none, then Explorer checks for 'AllFolders'. If 'AllFolders'
exists and specifies a template, that template is assigned. If no template
is specified or 'AllFolders' doesn't exist, then content sniffing kicks in.

Tell me more about these templates... in the IE4 era, we had
Desktop.ini pointing to *.htt files that allowed HTML scripting to be
bound to locations, in ways amenable to malware use - so that every
full-shared location was potentially a malware drop-and-run point.

Win98/SE/ME had the ability to kill "View as Web Page" to curb this
risk; a setting that no longer appears in XP and Vista.

Are these newer OSs cluefull enough to suppress "Web Page" scripts, or
dumb enough to integrate these with no option to disable them?

Are there other opportunities to edit a Desktop.ini so as to invoke
code; say, via a CLSID? Let's leave aside pointing to a "specially
crafted" .ICO using the .ANI exploit for now.

Once Explorer has determined content type, it will look for the template
UUID under 'AllFolders' and then under:
'HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Streams\Defaults'
If those don't exist, then the settings found under:
'HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\explorer\FolderTypes'
will be used.

OK. Is this "CU before LM" order pervasive across all file
associations etc. as lumped together in the HKCR view?

Thanks for a great article, BTW

------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

The most accurate diagnostic instrument
in medicine is the Retrospectoscope

 

[Guest]

Cquirke, you got it. Just to clear out any questions.

Ah - so you aren't trying to track changes across sessions for the
same removable storage... I thought that was an objective.

Well, I would like Windows didn't track changes across sessions rather than
losing any other customization I have. I like to stress that out because I
already had to customize a folder twice on Vista. I don't like Windows
loosing my customizations. I'm sorry, but it is somehow a waste of time
having to set the columns properly (not all columns I like were showing up),
then setting their places and so on. In the future I will give up customizing
everything over and over again. I just thought Windows could have a better
way to deal with this.

Just today, not two hours before this post, I created a new folder and there
was Tiles again. So unnerving. But I didn't use Keith's registry
suggestion yet. I will, though, as soon as I get home.

Thank you again,
Andre

 

[cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)]

Cquirke, you got it. Just to clear out any questions.

Well, I would like Windows didn't track changes across sessions rather than
losing any other customization I have. I like to stress that out because I
already had to customize a folder twice on Vista. I don't like Windows
loosing my customizations.

What you want, is this "Manage" button feature...

http://cquirke.mvps.org/savereg.htm

....that MS has yet to create :-/

I'm sorry, but it is somehow a waste of time having to set the columns
properly (not all columns I like were showing up), then setting their
places and so on.

What you're highlighting is that as one can do more to tailor the
folder display, the impact of having these changes thrown away becomes
unacceptable. I agree, a better way is needed - but also one that
does not spawn such data for other folders that are not customized,
else we have a scalability and/or bloat issue.

Just today, not two hours before this post, I created a new folder and there
was Tiles again.

Bah! I'm a "show me lots of file names quickly" type of dude - if I
want more info, I'll ask (select and Status, or rt-click Properties)

-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -

Tip Of The Day:
To disable the 'Tip of the Day' feature...

 

[Ed]

What do you mean about "namespace path" to the folder? I've been reading a
lot of the questions and answers regarding the views in vista changing or
not being consistant, and the focus of the answers has always been on the
notion of templates. I thought the whole idea of the template is that a
kind of file would retain certain view characteristics regardless of where
it was.

'Apply to Folders' in Vista works on a per-template basis. Different
defaults can be saved for 'All Items', 'Documents', 'Pictures & Video',
etc.
You need to be sure of what template the current folder is using before
using 'Apply to Folders'.

This also means that the default will only be applied to folders of that
type.

As for a specific folder forgetting it's view, folder views are unique
based on the namespace path to the folder -- the saved view for
'Desktop\UserName\Pictures' has no bearing on the view of
'Desktop\Computer\c:\Users\UserName\Pictures', it can remember different
view settings -- even use a different template. So make sure that's not
the cause of the discrepancy that you are seeing.

If that's not it, post back. Lots of things we can check!


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

Hello,

The default view of folders sometimes reverts back to previous settings.
I've setup a folder with the view that I'd like for all of my folders,
with
Details, Size, Create Date, & Modified Date (turned off Tag since it's of
no
use to me whatsoever since I can't use it for MPEGS, AVIs, or Real files)
and then clicked Tools/Folder Options, then clicked the View tab and
under
Folder Views, where it says: You can apply the view (such as Details or
Icons) that your are using for this folder to all folders of this type.
I
click the "Apply to Folders" button.

Later I'll come back to that very same folder and the view has changed.
And
not all of the other folders on the system have taken on those same
settings.

I know in XP all I had to do was the same procedure that I outlined above
and I could get all my folders to look the same.

What gives with Vista?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Guest]

What you want, is this "Manage" button feature...

http://cquirke.mvps.org/savereg.htm

Thank you Mr. Quirke. Now that you've shown me this I remembered that my
workstation at work runs Windows 2000. And Windows 2000 deals with
customizations waaaaaay better than Vista. I was just observing this today.
It does exactely what I wanted. I know it is not the same I described on that
e-mai, that was just an idea. But it handles customizations the way I
expected, the way I would be really, really pleased to see on Vista.

I'm using Keith's reg now. I haven't created any new folder yet but, for
now, Windows seems to be behaving well. Keith, if you're still reading,
could you tell me if it is possible to have the best of both worlds? I mean,
I've noticed that Win2K doesn't have templates, but I like that my Music
folder, my Pictures folder and my Videos folder look different than the rest.
So, could I have the templates applied to those folders and make the rest
behave like Windows 2000? Thank you.

What you're highlighting is that as one can do more to tailor the
folder display, the impact of having these changes thrown away becomes
unacceptable. I agree, a better way is needed - but also one that
does not spawn such data for other folders that are not customized,
else we have a scalability and/or bloat issue.

Indeed, that's why I mentioned Windows shouldn't store non customized
folders. They would have a "default" customization applied.

Bah! I'm a "show me lots of file names quickly" type of dude - if I
want more info, I'll ask (select and Status, or rt-click Properties)

Well, I am not. But Windows should please us both, shouldn't it?

Andre

 

[Keith Miller MVP]

Well, here's MS's description of the namespace:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...l/programmersguide/shell_basics/namespace.asp

Basically, the namespace is a way of organizing information in a familiar
paradigm, files & folders, even when no corresponding file or folder exists
in the file system (hard drive(s)).

Desktop, Computer, Control Panel, & Network are all examples of namespace
folders. The file system is a subset of the namespace, contained in the
Computer folder.

The namespace is rooted at the Desktop. The folder tree in the left-hand
pane of an Explorer window shows what I refer to as the 'namespace path'.
For example, the namespace path of 'C:\Windows' would be
'Desktop\Computer\C:\Windows'.

Namespace items can be a combination of virtual & file system objects. What
you see on the Desktop is a combination of:

C:\Users\<UserName>\Desktop
C:\Users\Public\Desktop
and various virtual items such as Network, Control Panel & Recycle Bin.

The <UserName> folder on the Desktop is a namespace folder, but, on a
standard install of Vista, its contents reflect file system items --
specifically, the contents of 'C:\Users\<UserName>'. If you redirect the
location of of one of the user's special folders, say 'Documents' (and
accept the option to move its contents), you will see that 'Documents' still
appears in the <UserName> folder on the Desktop, but not in
'C:\Users\<UserName>' -- that's one of the tricks of the namespace.

So, in terms of saved views, there is only an issue if there is more than
one namespace path to the folder. In Vista, this would be <UserName> and
all it's subfolders. The view saved for:

'Desktop\<UserName>'

is not used when you access

'Desktop\Computer\C:\Users\<UserName>'

It saves its own view. In practice, once a user settles in to a preferred
access method, this shouldn't present problems & can actually be
advantageous, allowing the user to maintain two separate views -- say tiles
or list for 'Desktop\<UserName>' and its subfolders but details for when
navigating the drives.

As for templates, the most important aspect of templates are that they
control what tasks appear in the toolbar. 'New Contact' is only available
for folders using the Contacts template; 'Slide Show' is only available for
folders using the 'Pictures and Videos' template, etc. There is no way for
a user to add the 'Slide Show' button to the toolbar of a folder that is
using the 'All Items' template. There are default view settings associated
with the various templates that govern such things as icon style and what
columns are selected by default -- it is these default view settings that
can be modified using the 'Apply to Folders' option. But the default view
settings are only applied the FIRST time a folder is viewed using a
particular template, after that, the saved view settings for that specific
folder are applied.

The expected templates are applied to the user's shell folders by default:
the 'Documents' folder uses the 'Documents' template, the Pictures folder
uses the 'Pictures and Videos' template, etc. I think what frustrates most
users is 'content-sniffing', which is how Explorer, when viewing a folder
for the first time, 'guesses' which template to use. Based on the posts
I've seen in these newgroups, it seems a little over-eager to assign the
'Pictures and Videos' template to any folder that contains an image file
among its contents. Content-sniffing can be over-ridden with the reg edit I
detailed elsewhere in this thread.


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

What do you mean about "namespace path" to the folder? I've been reading
a lot of the questions and answers regarding the views in vista changing
or not being consistant, and the focus of the answers has always been on
the notion of templates. I thought the whole idea of the template is that
a kind of file would retain certain view characteristics regardless of
where it was.

'Apply to Folders' in Vista works on a per-template basis. Different
defaults can be saved for 'All Items', 'Documents', 'Pictures & Video',
etc.
You need to be sure of what template the current folder is using before
using 'Apply to Folders'.

This also means that the default will only be applied to folders of that
type.

As for a specific folder forgetting it's view, folder views are unique
based on the namespace path to the folder -- the saved view for
'Desktop\UserName\Pictures' has no bearing on the view of
'Desktop\Computer\c:\Users\UserName\Pictures', it can remember different
view settings -- even use a different template. So make sure that's not
the cause of the discrepancy that you are seeing.

If that's not it, post back. Lots of things we can check!


--
Good Luck,

Keith
Microsoft MVP [Windows XP Shell/User]

Hello,

The default view of folders sometimes reverts back to previous settings.
I've setup a folder with the view that I'd like for all of my folders,
with
Details, Size, Create Date, & Modified Date (turned off Tag since it's
of no
use to me whatsoever since I can't use it for MPEGS, AVIs, or Real
files)
and then clicked Tools/Folder Options, then clicked the View tab and
under
Folder Views, where it says: You can apply the view (such as Details or
Icons) that your are using for this folder to all folders of this type.
I
click the "Apply to Folders" button.

Later I'll come back to that very same folder and the view has changed.
And
not all of the other folders on the system have taken on those same
settings.

I know in XP all I had to do was the same procedure that I outlined
above
and I could get all my folders to look the same.

What gives with Vista?

Thanks,

Jeff