Creating exact bootable clone of my PC's System Drive

[mfrank01]

Hi

I have a firewire 80 GB external drive split into 2 partitions. On
is ~50GB and the other is ~30 GB. My studio PC has 2 hard drives, C
for the system and D: for audio. Both are 40GB drives. Since I'v
only used 25GB of the 40GB of the system drive (C, is it possibl
to create a bootable clone of C: onto the ~30 GB partition of th
external firewire drive? In other words, does the original and clon
drive need to be the same size?

I've recently experienced a system crash on my studio computer.
managed to get it working again, but I fear my hard drive is failing
Also, what is the best, most reliable, but more importantly, easies
cloning software out there? I know someone who uses PCbeginner an
likes it, but I've seen others recommended on this forum.

Thanks for your help

Fran

 

[Kerry Brown]

Hi,

I have a firewire 80 GB external drive split into 2 partitions. One
is ~50GB and the other is ~30 GB. My studio PC has 2 hard drives, C:
for the system and D: for audio. Both are 40GB drives. Since I've
only used 25GB of the 40GB of the system drive (C, is it possible
to create a bootable clone of C: onto the ~30 GB partition of the
external firewire drive? In other words, does the original and clone
drive need to be the same size?

You shold create an image which can be used to create a bootable clone. You
can clone an internal drive to an external drive but it sometimes doesn't
make a bootable drive. With clones for the most part the target has to be
the same size or larger than the source. With images only the data is stored
and it can be compressed. An image is like instructions on how to create a
clone. Images are usually smaller than the original.

I've recently experienced a system crash on my studio computer. I
managed to get it working again, but I fear my hard drive is failing.
Also, what is the best, most reliable, but more importantly, easiest
cloning software out there? I know someone who uses PCbeginner and
likes it, but I've seen others recommended on this forum.

I use Acronis True Image. Norton Ghost is another very popular program.
There are many more. Bootitng is often mentioned on this newsgroup. I have
not used it persoanlly so can't recommend it.

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/backup_recovery/ghost10/index.html

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

Kerry

 

[ms]

You shold create an image which can be used to create a bootable clone.
You can clone an internal drive to an external drive but it sometimes
doesn't make a bootable drive. With clones for the most part the target
has to be the same size or larger than the source. With images only the
data is stored and it can be compressed. An image is like instructions on
how to create a clone. Images are usually smaller than the original.


I use Acronis True Image. Norton Ghost is another very popular program.
There are many more. Bootitng is often mentioned on this newsgroup. I have
not used it persoanlly so can't recommend it.

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/backup_recovery/ghost10/index.html

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

Kerry

Heard good things about Acronis, but I have only used Ghost version 9. Very
easy to use, will span DVDs, or backup to network drives or external
enclosures. Backup is performed from within Windows, so you can still use
your PC, and boot from install disk to restore image.

HTH

 

[Mike Fields]

You shold create an image which can be used to create a bootable
clone. You can clone an internal drive to an external drive but it
sometimes doesn't make a bootable drive. With clones for the most part
the target has to be the same size or larger than the source. With
images only the data is stored and it can be compressed. An image is
like instructions on how to create a clone. Images are usually smaller
than the original.


I use Acronis True Image. Norton Ghost is another very popular
program. There are many more. Bootitng is often mentioned on this
newsgroup. I have not used it persoanlly so can't recommend it.

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/backup_recovery/ghost10/index.html

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

Kerry

I gave up on Acronis True image -- I have both the latest (last)
release of version 8 as well as paying for the upgrade to version
9 a while back. Kept running into the same issues others were
reporting in their support forums. Gave up and switched to
BING (bootit NG ) from terabyte
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html
They actually have 3 flavors BING which can save/restore
and do partitioning stuff, Image For Dos that you can create
a bootable CD to run from (so you don't have to have
any other support in place) and Image for Windows that
can be run from windows. All three generate image files
the other versions can read. It is a little geeky, but
very reasonably priced, good support and has consistently
performed as advertised for me. You can get all 3 of
their utilities for $49.54 at
http://www.terabyteinc.com/purchimgw.html They also
have trial versions you can try.

mikey

 

[Anna]

You shold create an image which can be used to create a bootable clone.
You can clone an internal drive to an external drive but it sometimes
doesn't make a bootable drive. With clones for the most part the target
has to be the same size or larger than the source. With images only the
data is stored and it can be compressed. An image is like instructions on
how to create a clone. Images are usually smaller than the original.

I use Acronis True Image. Norton Ghost is another very popular program.
There are many more. Bootitng is often mentioned on this newsgroup. I have
not used it persoanlly so can't recommend it.

http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

http://www.symantec.com/home_homeoffice/products/backup_recovery/ghost10/index.html

http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

Kerry

Frank:
In addition to Kerry's suggestions and those you've received from other
responders to your query, let me add mine...

While the Acronis True Image program is a fine disk imaging program, it does
not have the capability, insofar as I'm aware, of *directly* cloning the
contents of one's HD to an *individual* partition on another HD. It's an
"all-or-nothing" proposition in that while you can directly clone the
contents of your system drive to your Firewire EHD, the resultant clone
would end up as a single partition on that drive containing the cloned
contents of your system drive, however, your second partition on the
external drive including all its former contents would be gone. At least
that's what we've experienced with the ATI version 8 program. There is a
newer version 9 but we've no experience with that version. If that
capability now exists re directly cloning individual partitions, perhaps
Kerry will so indicate.

You may wish to consider the program we generally use for disk-to-disk
cloning operations - Symantec's Norton Ghost 2003 program. It's been
presumably superseded by the Norton Ghost v 9 and Ghost v 10 programs, but
we find the 2003 program a more simpler and straightforward program to use
for the *direct* cloning of one HD (or partition) to another HD (or
partition) than its successor programs. And we prefer to use the Ghost 2003
program with a Ghost bootable floppy disk (or Ghost bootable CD). This
program has the capability of cloning individual partitions. But please note
that your Firewire EHD will *not* be bootable even though it will contain
the cloned contents of your system drive, however, its contents can be
re:cloned to an internal HD for restoration purposes should that need arise.
And in that case the internal drive will be bootable. (I suppose I should
mention that there have been reports from some users that they have been
able to boot from an USB/Firewire EHD containing the cloned contents of the
XP OS but we've never been able to do so or confirm that it can be done).

There are, of course, a number of other disk imaging programs on the market
and you should be hearing about them from other responders to your query.

If you (or others) are interested in the possibility of using the Ghost 2003
program, please so indicate and I'll provide further details re the program
together with step-by-step instructions for using it.
Anna

 

[Kerry Brown]

While the Acronis True Image program is a fine disk imaging program,
it does not have the capability, insofar as I'm aware, of *directly*
cloning the contents of one's HD to an *individual* partition on
another HD. It's an "all-or-nothing" proposition in that while you
can directly clone the contents of your system drive to your Firewire
EHD, the resultant clone would end up as a single partition on that
drive containing the cloned contents of your system drive, however,
your second partition on the external drive including all its former
contents would be gone. At least that's what we've experienced with
the ATI version 8 program. There is a newer version 9 but we've no
experience with that version. If that capability now exists re
directly cloning individual partitions, perhaps Kerry will so
indicate.

I'm using TI 8 and it does work as you say. I prefer images for backups and
only use the clone tool when replacing a drive. Images take up far less room
and you can store more images. I have tried Ghost and it is the same in that
images take up less room. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I prefer
TI simply because I have more experience with it and know it better.

Kerry

 

[Timothy Daniels]

[...] does the original and clone
drive need to be the same size?

No.


[....] what is the best, most reliable, but more importantly,
easiest cloning software out there?

The easiest for *cloning* (and cloning only) that I've
found is Casper XP by Future Systems Solutions. It
will clone a single partition to unallocated space or to
another single existing partition. It will also clone an
entire hard drive to another. The MBR will be copied
automatically, and the destination partition for a single
partition clone will be marked "active" for you. You can
download a trial copy from
www.FSSdev.com/products/casperxp/ .

Although you can transfer a clone to an external USB
hard drive, you won't be able to boot from it unless you
have one of the still rare BIOSes that can boot from a
USB drive. The clone will probably be of use only as
an archive copy - in effect an uncompressed image.

If you have yet to buy the external drive, consider putting
a SATA drive in an external box and using it as if it were
an internal SATA drive. Kingwin and Athena are makers
of such boxes:
http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_Cat.asp?CateID=52
http://www.athenapower.com , product nos. MR-899SATA
and MR-899SATAB. These external boxes have their
own cooling fan and a wall wart power supply, so the HDs
think that they're inside a PC case, and they can boot
just like an internal drive because they're connected to
a normal IDE controller inside the case.

As with all clones, when booting it for the 1st time,
don't let is see its "parent" OS. Leave the drive with the
"parent" disconnected until after that 1st boot. Thereafter,
the clone can see its "parent" OS when it boots up with
no problem.

*TimDaniels*

 

[Anna]

I'm using TI 8 and it does work as you say. I prefer images for backups
and only use the clone tool when replacing a drive. Images take up far
less room and you can store more images. I have tried Ghost and it is the
same in that images take up less room. Both have advantages and
disadvantages. I prefer TI simply because I have more experience with it
and know it better.

Kerry

Kerry:
I agree that the Acronis True Image program (at least the one we've worked
with - version 8) is a fine program based on our limited experience with
that program. We use these disk imaging programs (primarily the Ghost 2003
program as I've previously mentioned) virtually exclusively for a single
task - cloning the contents of one HD to another HD. In our case we are
uninterested in creating compressed images that can be stored on removable
media, i.e., DVDs or on a HD. Our sole interest is basic disk-to-disk
cloning to establish & maintain a comprehensive backup system that users
find reasonably simple to employ on a routine basis, not terribly
time-consuming to undertake, and most important of all, a process that is
truly effective as a day-in day-out backup system.

A note to Frank, the OP, if he's still with us...
You raised the question as to whether the source partition and the
destination partition must be the same size for the cloning operation to
succeed. The answer is "no". In your case your source drive is 40 GB, but
contains only 25 GB of data. So you could clone the contents of that drive
to your 30 GB partition on your external HD. The only requirement is that
the destination partition be sufficiently large enough to receive the cloned
contents of the source drive (partition). Again, I'm referring here to the
Ghost 2003 program. Other disk imaging (cloning) programs might treat this
differently.
Anna

 

[Kerry Brown]

Kerry:
I agree that the Acronis True Image program (at least the one we've
worked with - version 8) is a fine program based on our limited
experience with that program. We use these disk imaging programs
(primarily the Ghost 2003 program as I've previously mentioned)
virtually exclusively for a single task - cloning the contents of one
HD to another HD. In our case we are uninterested in creating
compressed images that can be stored on removable media, i.e., DVDs
or on a HD. Our sole interest is basic disk-to-disk cloning to
establish & maintain a comprehensive backup system that users find
reasonably simple to employ on a routine basis, not terribly
time-consuming to undertake, and most important of all, a process
that is truly effective as a day-in day-out backup system.

Anna

You have system that works for you. I prefer a different system. With images
you can create different backups for different days and thus have multiple
copies of backups. With TI you can mount an image and copy files from the
image. This allows you to do partial restores much like copying files from a
cloned drive. I have seen situations where you sometimes have to go back in
time until you find a backup that doesn't have corrupted files. For example
you may have an accounting program where the data became corrupted while
doing the last payroll (2 weeks ago) but no one noticed until entering the
current payroll. If you only have last night's backup that doesn't help
much. I usually store a weeks worth of backups (images) and then pick one
day a week to keep the last month's worth of backups. The structure would
look like this. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Friday1,
Friday2, Friday3. This would allow you to go back a month if needed. Once a
week backups are also burned to CD/DVD and stored offsite so if you really
have to you could go back as far as needed. This can all be automated except
the once a week to CD/DVD. I set this up for Monday morning. Someone is
delegated to burn Friday's image. I have not found a way to do this with
clones instead of images without having multiple partitions to hold each
clone.

Kerry

 

[Anna]

You have system that works for you. I prefer a different system. With
images you can create different backups for different days and thus have
multiple copies of backups. With TI you can mount an image and copy files
from the image. This allows you to do partial restores much like copying
files from a cloned drive. I have seen situations where you sometimes have
to go back in time until you find a backup that doesn't have corrupted
files. For example you may have an accounting program where the data
became corrupted while doing the last payroll (2 weeks ago) but no one
noticed until entering the current payroll. If you only have last night's
backup that doesn't help much. I usually store a weeks worth of backups
(images) and then pick one day a week to keep the last month's worth of
backups. The structure would look like this. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday, Friday1, Friday2, Friday3. This would allow you to go
back a month if needed. Once a week backups are also burned to CD/DVD and
stored offsite so if you really > have to you could go back as far as
needed. This can all be automated except the once a week to CD/DVD. I set
this up for Monday morning. Someone is > delegated to burn Friday's image.
I have not found a way to do this with clones instead of images without
having multiple partitions to hold each clone.

Kerry

Yes, I have no problem with your system if that's the one that works for
you. In our own case, we found over the years with our customers (small to
medium size businesses and home users) that the most effective backup system
they could employ was creating disk-to-disk clones. The simplicity &
effectiveness of that process was quite appealing and we found it was a
process that generally would be adhered to in a routine & systematic way.
Unlike other backup programs that we tried and discarded. And that included
creating disk images on removable media, incremental backups, and the like.
For a variety of reasons, they just didn't work (at least for our customers)
over the long haul.

To that end, we've encouraged many of our customers to equip their desktop
computers with removable hard drives. By so doing they would have at hand as
many hard drives as necessary to maintain multiple generations of backups in
accordance with their needs. Over the years (about six) virtually all our
customers have expressed satisfaction with this process.
Anna