CPU now at 60-65 Degrees C idle , have questions still

N

Naj

Ok, I reseated my heatsink and that seemes to bring the temp down from
75 to 60-65 C after a few minutes of booting and just sitting in the
BIOS. This still seems high to me, as the system temp is around 30 C.
I thnk maybe I am not doing the whole heatsink thing right. I applied
a layer of thermal grease to the CPU die and then put the HSF on. AM I
missing somethign here? Again, here are my system's specs:
AMD Barton 2500+
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe
Thermaltake Volcano 11 HSF
WD 20 GB HDD
2x256mp Kingston PC2700 RAM
GeForce4 Ti4200
300W Power supply
Thanks again.
 
S

Stephen Austin

Ok, I reseated my heatsink and that seemes to bring the temp down from
75 to 60-65 C after a few minutes of booting and just sitting in the
BIOS. This still seems high to me, as the system temp is around 30 C.
I thnk maybe I am not doing the whole heatsink thing right. I applied
a layer of thermal grease to the CPU die and then put the HSF on. AM I
missing somethign here? Again, here are my system's specs:
AMD Barton 2500+
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe
Thermaltake Volcano 11 HSF
WD 20 GB HDD
2x256mp Kingston PC2700 RAM
GeForce4 Ti4200
300W Power supply
Thanks again.

Two things:

First - Why start a new thread for the same subject?!
Second - Why crosspost to so many groups?! Everyone now has to crosspost
reply because we don't know which group you are reading from!

Steve
 
G

Gene Puhl

(e-mail address removed) (Naj) said:
Ok, I reseated my heatsink and that seemes to bring the temp down from
75 to 60-65 C after a few minutes of booting and just sitting in the
BIOS. This still seems high to me, as the system temp is around 30 C.
I thnk maybe I am not doing the whole heatsink thing right. I applied
a layer of thermal grease to the CPU die and then put the HSF on. AM I
missing somethign here? Again, here are my system's specs:
AMD Barton 2500+
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe
Thermaltake Volcano 11 HSF
WD 20 GB HDD
2x256mp Kingston PC2700 RAM
GeForce4 Ti4200
300W Power supply
Thanks again.

Try these videos from AMD

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_1073^
6678,00.html

The URL is wrapped, so make sure you copy the whole thing
 
J

jaster

Harry said:
Can you tell me the RPM you settled on. My Volcano 9 cools my CPU to
61C. I have reseated it and it only shaved 1C off the temp.

cheers

#$%$%)(&Y newsgroup issues.

;;;CPU;System;Sensor 3;Core 0;Core
1;+3.3;+5.00;+12.00;-12.00;-5.00;CPU fan;System fan;Fan 3;
8/22/2003;3:58:25 PM;1662 MHz;55° C;37° C;55° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.07 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3750 RPM;2265 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:56:25 PM;1662 MHz;55° C;37° C;55° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.07 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3750 RPM;2265 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:54:25 PM;1662 MHz;55° C;37° C;55° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.14 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3792 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:52:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;37° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.14 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3750 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:50:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;37° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.07 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3792 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:48:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;37° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.93 V;12.14 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3792 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:46:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;37° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.14 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3792 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:44:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;37° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.07 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3750 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:42:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;38° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.07 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3750 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
8/22/2003;3:40:25 PM;1662 MHz;56° C;38° C;56° C;1.74 V;2.46 V;3.17
V;4.91 V;12.07 V;-12.03 V;0.00 V;3792 RPM;2280 RPM;0 RPM;
 
M

MCheu

Ok, I reseated my heatsink and that seemes to bring the temp down from
75 to 60-65 C after a few minutes of booting and just sitting in the
BIOS. This still seems high to me, as the system temp is around 30 C.
I thnk maybe I am not doing the whole heatsink thing right. I applied
a layer of thermal grease to the CPU die and then put the HSF on. AM I
missing somethign here? Again, here are my system's specs:
AMD Barton 2500+
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe
Thermaltake Volcano 11 HSF
WD 20 GB HDD
2x256mp Kingston PC2700 RAM
GeForce4 Ti4200
300W Power supply
Thanks again.

Something which hasn't been mentioned in the other posts which might
be worth mentioning:

Did you remove the thermal pad before applying the thermal grease? I
ask this because the thermal pad that ThermalTake uses is a very thin
black material and it's pretty easy to mistake it for some sort of
fancy finish on the heat sink itself. I did this myself on my first
HSF. I slathered a dab of HS compound on top of the CPU and put on
the HSF -- never removed the pad. I didn't even find out that's what
it was until about 2 years later when a buddy helped me pull the CPU
and replace it with something faster. I probably would have gotten
cooler temps if I hadn't left the pad in place.

If you did this too, when you pull off the heatsink and reseat it,
you'll probably rip off chunks of the pad and that will leave a bumpy
mess where the heatsink and cpu meet unless you clean that off first
and reapply the grease.

======================================
Thanks,

MCheu
 
A

Arthur Hagen

Adam Overlag Webb said:
theres no WAY a cpu should be 25c over ambient at idle...

You're kidding, right? If you run your rig in front of an open window at
winter time, do you really think this still holds true, and that your CPU
might be downright chilly?

The temperature inside the case, or ambient case temperature, if you like,
is more important than the outside ambient temperature.
With the system running idle here (well, me typing this post, plus various
services), the case temperature is 34C and the CPU temperature is 33C, i.e.
slightly lower.

Regards,
 
A

Adam Overlag Webb

You're kidding, right? If you run your rig in front of an open window at
winter time, do you really think this still holds true, and that your CPU
might be downright chilly?

The temperature inside the case, or ambient case temperature, if you like,
is more important than the outside ambient temperature.
With the system running idle here (well, me typing this post, plus various
services), the case temperature is 34C and the CPU temperature is 33C, i.e.
slightly lower.

Regards,
--

joys of water mate.......

but, all my other rigs are withing 20c difference for system / cpu at full
load, at idle it will be at most 8c, but they are never idle...

XP Barton @ 2300, 30c system, 40c cpu
XP 0.13 @ 1580, 43c system, 57c cpu, some silent cooler
XP 0.18 @ 1477, 40c system, 54c cpu, alpha 8045 with standard ystech fan

all full loaded with seti
 
D

David Maynard

Arthur said:
You're kidding, right? If you run your rig in front of an open window at
winter time, do you really think this still holds true, and that your CPU
might be downright chilly?

The temperature inside the case, or ambient case temperature, if you like,
is more important than the outside ambient temperature.
With the system running idle here (well, me typing this post, plus various
services), the case temperature is 34C and the CPU temperature is 33C, i.e.
slightly lower.

What you think is case temperature is probably either motherboard temperature or
at least being affected by it because it is impossible for an air cooled CPU to
be cooler than the air that's cooling it.
 
A

Adam Overlag Webb

he may have a exhaust fan near the CPU... this means, cool air is brought
through the CPU area, but might miss where the "system" prob is (its right
on the bottom edge of the A7N8X), hence making the system temp hotter since
the cool air is missing that area? dunno...
 
A

Adam Overlag Webb

That's a possibility but since 'case' sensors are usually thermistors
mounted on
the motherboard it is not unusual for the motherboard to warm them a bit.

But if the sensor is anywhere near the southbridge, or Gfx / Sound cards
heat will warm up....
In any case, it is still true that the CPU cannot be cooler than the air cooling
it and that the apparent contradiction is due to the 'case temp' measurement not
being representative, for whatever reason, of that air's actual temperature.

yeah, the "case" temp may be 34 and his cpu 33, but the air coming in near
the cpu was problaby in the 25's at most
 
N

Nick M V Salmon

Arthur Hagen said:
Stop listening to Mr. Maynard. The air is heated by five 7200rpm drives on
the way into the case, and is never as cool as 25C. Heck, the ambient room
temperature is never that low. It *is* possible to have something cooled by
air become cooler than the ambient temperature, and I described exactly the
principles, as well as examples in my previous post.

I principle yes, in practice NO - the pressure differential is so low that
any cooling effect would be almost immeasuarbly small.


Mr. Maynard, in his usual style, completely disregards what people write
with a short pompous reply that doesn't give ANY kind of evidence. I'm
sorry, but this *is* a normal process of physics, and Mr. Maynard has made
no successful argumentation for *why* it should not apply to heat sinks.

"argumentation" <LOL>


His "dismissal" that "heat flows from warm to cold" (second law of
thermodynamics, atta boy!) seems to indicate that he is unaware that air
that moves IS colder, due to lower pressure. The moment you start moving
the air, the temperature drops.

Balls, air circulates downward on the outer rim of a hurricane and it gets
hotter, not colder. Any wind blowing down a mountainside gets hotter too.
If there is any compressive effect when you move air then it will get
_hotter_ not colder.

If you exhaust air from a heatsink then the air withing the heatsink will be
at slightly lower pressure than ambient but the pressure differential will
be so low that any temperature differential will be close to immeasurably
small.

It may sound counter-intuitive, but the
preservation of energy still applies -- the energy that the air loses by
becoming colder, it gains as kinetic energy. So when the ambient
temperature inside the case is 34C, the air moved by the CPU fan might very
well be 30C, which cools the heat sink assembly to 33C.

In addition, there's multiple other thermodynamic forces at play here --
including moisture evaporation

Now this bit is utter bullshit - the heatsink will be well above dewpoint
thus dry as a bone in a desert. You would have to continuously spray it
with water to keep it wet, or don't your sheets dry on a windy day..?

Your temperatures are just plain wrong IMNSHO - hunt out where the sensor
for the 'system' temp is on your motherboard & do a comparison with an
accurately calibrated thermometer. (As I do, I use the difference to
recalibrate MBM5.) You'll very likely find that yours isn't representaive
of true system temperature, they rarely are.

and kinetic energy transfer. Both should,
howeer, be minimal.

A P4 will, when idle, produce very little heat indeed, and a good heatsink /
fan combination is quite capable of cooling most of it to ambient case
temperature or lower.

Utter rubbish.................

PLONK

[UK]_Nick...
 
J

JAD

argumentation is a very dramastic term

Nick M V Salmon said:
Arthur Hagen said:
Stop listening to Mr. Maynard. The air is heated by five 7200rpm drives on
the way into the case, and is never as cool as 25C. Heck, the ambient room
temperature is never that low. It *is* possible to have something
cooled
by
air become cooler than the ambient temperature, and I described exactly the
principles, as well as examples in my previous post.

I principle yes, in practice NO - the pressure differential is so low that
any cooling effect would be almost immeasuarbly small.


Mr. Maynard, in his usual style, completely disregards what people write
with a short pompous reply that doesn't give ANY kind of evidence. I'm
sorry, but this *is* a normal process of physics, and Mr. Maynard has made
no successful argumentation for *why* it should not apply to heat sinks.

"argumentation" <LOL>


His "dismissal" that "heat flows from warm to cold" (second law of
thermodynamics, atta boy!) seems to indicate that he is unaware that air
that moves IS colder, due to lower pressure. The moment you start moving
the air, the temperature drops.

Balls, air circulates downward on the outer rim of a hurricane and it gets
hotter, not colder. Any wind blowing down a mountainside gets hotter too.
If there is any compressive effect when you move air then it will get
_hotter_ not colder.

If you exhaust air from a heatsink then the air withing the heatsink will be
at slightly lower pressure than ambient but the pressure differential will
be so low that any temperature differential will be close to immeasurably
small.

It may sound counter-intuitive, but the
preservation of energy still applies -- the energy that the air loses by
becoming colder, it gains as kinetic energy. So when the ambient
temperature inside the case is 34C, the air moved by the CPU fan might very
well be 30C, which cools the heat sink assembly to 33C.

In addition, there's multiple other thermodynamic forces at play here --
including moisture evaporation

Now this bit is utter bullshit - the heatsink will be well above dewpoint
thus dry as a bone in a desert. You would have to continuously spray it
with water to keep it wet, or don't your sheets dry on a windy day..?

Your temperatures are just plain wrong IMNSHO - hunt out where the sensor
for the 'system' temp is on your motherboard & do a comparison with an
accurately calibrated thermometer. (As I do, I use the difference to
recalibrate MBM5.) You'll very likely find that yours isn't representaive
of true system temperature, they rarely are.

and kinetic energy transfer. Both should,
howeer, be minimal.

A P4 will, when idle, produce very little heat indeed, and a good
heatsink
/
fan combination is quite capable of cooling most of it to ambient case
temperature or lower.

Utter rubbish.................

PLONK

[UK]_Nick...
 
A

Arthur Hagen

Nick M V Salmon said:
"argumentation" <LOL>

The word "argumentation" has two meanings. One of them is "reasoning that
proceeds methodically from a statement to a conclusion".
Balls, air circulates downward on the outer rim of a hurricane and it gets
hotter, not colder. Any wind blowing down a mountainside gets hotter too.
If there is any compressive effect when you move air then it will get
_hotter_ not colder.

If you exhaust air from a heatsink then the air withing the heatsink will be
at slightly lower pressure than ambient but the pressure differential will
be so low that any temperature differential will be close to immeasurably
small.

As happens, I have a spare HSF here (GlobalWin dual fan for an old slot1, as
happens), as well as a fairly decent thermometer -- at least for this
purpose. The room temperature is 73.9F here, according to the wall
thermometer. Measuring the temp of the heatsink (it has a nice groove on
the non-fin side that the tip of the thermometer fits nicely into) gives me
73F -- probably just because the wall thermometer is a tad higher up.
Time to strip some of the wires, and hook it up to a 9V fire alarm battery
here. It's not 12V, but the best I can do without hooking into a computer
case. And I'm lazy. Hold on... Done.

Fans are running. Right way too, and I forgot to look at the colours :)
Hmmm... what's this? I see a temperature drop! ~72.5F now. Hmm, wait,
that shouldn't happen! What's going on here? Voodoo?
Ah, now it's dipped just under 72F. Wall still shows 73.8F. Damn, I must
have done something wrong here.
Probably a lack of bogons in the air, cause the same effect is apparent at
the air intake to my computer case too -- it's even noticably colder to the
touch than the case is just a couple of inches away.

When the map doesn't fit the terrain, you can usually assume that it's the
map that's wrong.
 
D

David Maynard

Arthur said:
message



Stop listening to Mr. Maynard. The air is heated by five 7200rpm drives on
the way into the case, and is never as cool as 25C. Heck, the ambient room
temperature is never that low. It *is* possible to have something cooled by
air become cooler than the ambient temperature, and I described exactly the
principles, as well as examples in my previous post.

Mr. Maynard, in his usual style, completely disregards what people write
with a short pompous reply that doesn't give ANY kind of evidence. I'm
sorry, but this *is* a normal process of physics, and Mr. Maynard has made
no successful argumentation for *why* it should not apply to heat sinks.
His "dismissal" that "heat flows from warm to cold" (second law of
thermodynamics, atta boy!) seems to indicate that he is unaware that air
that moves IS colder, due to lower pressure. The moment you start moving
the air, the temperature drops. It may sound counter-intuitive, but the
preservation of energy still applies -- the energy that the air loses by
becoming colder, it gains as kinetic energy. So when the ambient
temperature inside the case is 34C, the air moved by the CPU fan might very
well be 30C, which cools the heat sink assembly to 33C.

In addition, there's multiple other thermodynamic forces at play here --
including moisture evaporation and kinetic energy transfer. Both should,
howeer, be minimal.

A P4 will, when idle, produce very little heat indeed, and a good heatsink /
fan combination is quite capable of cooling most of it to ambient case
temperature or lower.

Regards,

Sorry, I didn't realize this was a 'proof challenge' situation.

Here is a tutorial on the various thermal methods.

http://www.elec.qmul.ac.uk/staffinfo/eric/courses/eda/pages9900/lect9900/adobever4/7_heat.pdf

Here is a manufacturer's tutorial on thermal management for their products.

http://www.vicr.com/support/apps-info/pdf/23thermalconsid.pdf

And another, which includes the temperature vs failure rate relationship (for
variety).

http://www.apptitude.com/docs/a/AN-0038-00-Thermal-Management-Application-Note.pdf

And then this one by a heatsink manufacturer, Aavid

http://www.electronics-cooling.com/Resources/EC_Articles/JUN95/jun95_01.htm

Now, all of these represent forced convection cooling in terms of mass airflow,
as indeed do all the ones I've ever seen, and none even mention the effects you
claim, much less parameterize them, but I'll be glad to read any equations you
can provide that characterize their effect on heatsink performance.

As a side note, I would point out that your air velocity observation does not
take into account that the air, in our case, gets it's directional kinetic
energy (velocity) from, in the simplistic sense, being whacked by rotating fan
blades. To make matters worse, the fan motor itself is dissipating additional
(heat) energy, above that imparted as air velocity, into the system.

Also, the "air that moves" on the exhaust side of the fan is not at a lower
pressure, it is at higher pressure, than the surrounding ambient and,
necessarily, warmer due to compression and the additional energy imparted to it.
 
A

Adam Overlag Webb

Mr. Maynard, in his usual style, completely disregards what people write
with a short pompous reply that doesn't give ANY kind of evidence. I'm
sorry, but this *is* a normal process of physics, and Mr. Maynard has made
no successful argumentation for *why* it should not apply to heat sinks.
His "dismissal" that "heat flows from warm to cold" (second law of
thermodynamics, atta boy!) seems to indicate that he is unaware that air
that moves IS colder, due to lower pressure. The moment you start moving
the air, the temperature drops. It may sound counter-intuitive, but the
preservation of energy still applies -- the energy that the air loses by
becoming colder, it gains as kinetic energy. So when the ambient
temperature inside the case is 34C, the air moved by the CPU fan might very
well be 30C, which cools the heat sink assembly to 33C.

sorry, but your talking rubbish, a cpu fan wont drop the pressure that much,
it infact will be increasing pressure as it NORMALY has trouble pushing air
through heatsink fins.....

and your example of lower pressure would need one of those "jet coolers" or
whatever they are, where it splits hot and cold up...not a standard 4000rpm
fan.......


Another good point would be that temp probes on MB's, and in CPU's are
rubbish....
 
A

Adam Overlag Webb

Fans are running. Right way too, and I forgot to look at the colours :)
Hmmm... what's this? I see a temperature drop! ~72.5F now. Hmm, wait,
that shouldn't happen! What's going on here? Voodoo?
Ah, now it's dipped just under 72F. Wall still shows 73.8F. Damn, I must
have done something wrong here.

dude, this whole post is void, theres no HEAT source....
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Top