CPU Core Voltage Too Low -> Crash?

[Edward J. Neth]

1. Is the difference between the apparent optimal range for Core Voltage and
my actual Core Voltage enough to explain these very random crashes? (I can
go a few minutes, a few hours, a few days between crashes).

It's unlikely. Do the crashes occur when you run in Safe Mode? I'd bet on
a software issue
before you start troubleshooting hardware. Anything abnormal in the event
logs?

2. Is there any way to adjust this voltage? I have not yet found any BIOS
or motherboard jumper settings that might do this.
No.


3. If this is the source of the problem, do I replace the motherboard, or
the CPU? In other words, which hardware component is causing the low CPU
Core Voltage?

Most likely the power supply, if it turns out to be hardware in origin.

 

[Don Cohen]

Hi,

This is a fresh thread based on what was learned in a separate thread
(Desperately Need Help - System Reboot/Crashes).

The tentative conclusion in the other thread is that my crashes are being
caused by hardware, and not software. In that regard, I have installed and
run AIDA32 Enterprise System Information. Here is the relevant information:

My primary problem is random, sporadic crashes to a BSOD, starting after
almost 2 years of relatively glitch-free running, and *not* following any
significant hardware or software changes:

PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA
****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000)

Full details on this problem and prior trouble-shooting can be found in the
other thread.

Gateway 700XL, approximately 2 years old, XP Home, 1024 mb RAM
Intel Pentium 4A, 2.2 GHz (5.5x400), Northwood A80532 CPU chip
Intel D850MV (Maryville) Motherboard, i850 Chipset
Brand new Antec 430W TruPower PSU (replacing the prior Gateway 250W PSU, but
not fixing the crashes)

AIDA32 shows the actual CPU Core Voltage for my system varying between 1.43
and 1.45 Volts.
AIDA32 also has a section showing the CPU Physical Properties. Here it
indicates:
--Core Voltage 1.475V - 1.55V--

Someone experiencing similar (but not identical) crashes as me found his CPU
Core Voltage to be the source of his problem, indicating his opinion that
voltage differences as small as 0.025V can be quite significant. If true,
then my CPU Core Voltage is out of the normal range.

My questions:

1. Is the difference between the apparent optimal range for Core Voltage and
my actual Core Voltage enough to explain these very random crashes? (I can
go a few minutes, a few hours, a few days between crashes).

2. Is there any way to adjust this voltage? I have not yet found any BIOS
or motherboard jumper settings that might do this.

3. If this is the source of the problem, do I replace the motherboard, or
the CPU? In other words, which hardware component is causing the low CPU
Core Voltage?

Anybody that can offer some knowledgeable advice here? It will be very
greatly appreciated. I have been fighting this problem for several weeks
now, and consumed untold hours trouble-shooting.

Thanks!

Don

 

[Don Cohen]

Hi Edward,

Thanks for the reply.

It's unlikely. Do the crashes occur when you run in Safe Mode? I'd bet on
a software issue
before you start troubleshooting hardware. Anything abnormal in the event
logs?

You can check the other thread for the long, gory details (this has been a
long, tortous process), but what is highly suggestive that it's hardware is:

-the reboots *have* occurred in safe mode
-they also occurred when I booted directly from the XP CD in order to access
the Windows Recovery Console. I got to the point where it lets you choose
the Windows partition (in my case, the only choice present is c:\winnt), and
when I hit enter, it rebooted.

To me, and the others more knowledgeable than me, this was a fairly
definitive indication that it's a hardware issue, since no programs,
drivers, etc., from the OS on the hard drive were even loaded or running.

If you think otherwise, please let me know what your reasoning is.

Most likely the power supply, if it turns out to be hardware in origin.

My initial suspicion when this whole thing started, based on the specific
stop message, was a bad PSU. I replaced the 250W original PSU that came
with the system, with an Antec 430W TruPower PSU. It ran fine for almost 3
days after I did this, but then the identical crash recurred.

So at this point, I strongly suspect motherboard and/or CPU. But I really
don't know anything for sure at this point.


Any additional thoughts greatly appreciated.

Don

 

[Jack]

Hi Don, this is really a long shot, but it recently happened to me on a
three year old system(non-Gateway).
I was getting random re-boots and corruptions. Even when trying to get to
the Recovery Console.
It turned out it was a faulty cd/dvd rom(Pioneer dvd-116). My only
indication of this was that CD's were getting hot when being used.
hth, Jack

 

[Cunning Linguist]

Don Cohen wrote in microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support:

Hi,

This is a fresh thread based on what was learned in a separate thread
(Desperately Need Help - System Reboot/Crashes).

The tentative conclusion in the other thread is that my crashes are
being caused by hardware, and not software. In that regard, I have
installed and run AIDA32 Enterprise System Information. Here is the
relevant information:

My primary problem is random, sporadic crashes to a BSOD, starting after
almost 2 years of relatively glitch-free running, and *not* following
any significant hardware or software changes:

PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA
****STOP: 0x00000050 (0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000, 0xB7874E5E, 0x00000000)

Full details on this problem and prior trouble-shooting can be found in
the other thread.

Gateway 700XL, approximately 2 years old, XP Home, 1024 mb RAM
Intel Pentium 4A, 2.2 GHz (5.5x400), Northwood A80532 CPU chip
Intel D850MV (Maryville) Motherboard, i850 Chipset
Brand new Antec 430W TruPower PSU (replacing the prior Gateway 250W PSU,
but not fixing the crashes)

AIDA32 shows the actual CPU Core Voltage for my system varying between
1.43 and 1.45 Volts.
AIDA32 also has a section showing the CPU Physical Properties. Here it
indicates:
--Core Voltage 1.475V - 1.55V--

Someone experiencing similar (but not identical) crashes as me found his
CPU Core Voltage to be the source of his problem, indicating his opinion
that voltage differences as small as 0.025V can be quite significant.
If true, then my CPU Core Voltage is out of the normal range.

My questions:

1. Is the difference between the apparent optimal range for Core Voltage
and my actual Core Voltage enough to explain these very random crashes?
(I can go a few minutes, a few hours, a few days between crashes).

2. Is there any way to adjust this voltage? I have not yet found any
BIOS or motherboard jumper settings that might do this.

3. If this is the source of the problem, do I replace the motherboard,
or the CPU? In other words, which hardware component is causing the low
CPU Core Voltage?

Anybody that can offer some knowledgeable advice here? It will be very
greatly appreciated. I have been fighting this problem for several
weeks now, and consumed untold hours trouble-shooting.

Thanks!

Don

Don, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you have a corrupted driver. Make sure you have all
updated drivers for your motherboard, sound card, video card and, if you have on installed,
56K modem. I had the same peoblem with crashes and blue screens. I upgraded my
motherboard drivers and all the others that I mentioned and I've been running BSOD free
for the last 9 months. Hope that healps.

 

[Don Cohen]

Hi Jack,

Hi Don, this is really a long shot, but it recently happened to me on a
three year old system(non-Gateway).
I was getting random re-boots and corruptions. Even when trying to get to
the Recovery Console.
It turned out it was a faulty cd/dvd rom(Pioneer dvd-116). My only
indication of this was that CD's were getting hot when being used.

Interesting. At this point, anything's possible. I just wish there were
some specific hardware diagnostics that could be used to actually make a
diagnosis, rather than having to do a tedious and time-consuming trial and
error replacement.

Actually, I have been referred to a program called Tuff-Test-Pro, that is
supposed to do just this.

Does anybody here have any experience with this program?

Thanks

Don

 

[Don Cohen]

Don, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that you have a corrupted driver. Make
sure you have all

updated drivers for your motherboard, sound card, video card and, if you have on installed,
56K modem. I had the same peoblem with crashes and blue screens. I upgraded my
motherboard drivers and all the others that I mentioned and I've been running BSOD free
for the last 9 months. Hope that healps.

Thanks for the post and suggestions.

Ordiniarily, I would agree with you. But what makes this situation
different, and apparently much more suggestive of a hardware source is the
following:

--these crashes occurred from within Safe Mode
--they have also occurred when booting directly from the XP Boot CD, going
into Windows Recovery Console. Afaik, no hard drive based drivers or files
are in use in that circumstance.

If you think otherwise, I'm definitely interested in your thinking.

Thanks!

Don

P.S. How does one update one's motherboard drivers?

 

[Unknown]

Do not overlook a static problem. In winter indoors with dry air almost
anythig will generate static.

 

[dmac]

not for nothing, but it could be a hard drive issue. rec console accesses
the c drive I believe.

--


David MacLeod
Etna, Maine USA
P4 2.8 OC to 3.13
1 GB DDR 466
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 Seagate 120 RAID 0

 

[Don Cohen]

not for nothing, but it could be a hard drive issue. rec console accesses

the c drive I believe.

This occurred to me as well. I may have to buy and try out that
Tuff-Test-Pro and see if it can find a specific hardware problem.

Thanks

Don

 

[Unknown]

Yes but simple movements such as casters on a chair, or the mouse on a plastic
surface will generate static. My brother had the same problem. We tried a
humidifier and presto, no more problems. I keep the humidity in my house on
the high side----have an automatic one in my furnace.

 

[Don Cohen]

Do not overlook a static problem. In winter indoors with dry air almost

anythig will generate static.

True. But more often than not it occurs when I'm just sitting at the
keyboard, typing or mousing around, and bam! there it goes.

Don

 

[CS]

True. But more often than not it occurs when I'm just sitting at the
keyboard, typing or mousing around, and bam! there it goes.

Don

Hi Don:

Nothing like going crazy trying to track something like this down....

From reading your posts and replies and what you've already done to
trouble shoot the problem, I believe it is very definitely a hardware
issue.

I would suggest you not spend any more money on diagnostic programs or
the like. Of course a free one is always great to have. I'm not
sure I really trust AIDA32 to accurately monitor CPU voltages. The
best free application that I know of to do that is called "Motherboard
Monitor". You might wish to download and give it a try. Also, go to
the CPU makers web site and get the specs for your CPU. Both Intel
and AMD have spec sheets available which give the voltage and
temperature ranges for the CPUs they manufacture.

You may indeed have a bad motherboard or at least an intermittent
failing component on the board. It may even be memory related. I
don't recall you saying you swapped out the memory modules? Also, go
into your CMOS setup program and make sure all the settings for memory
are within specs. (CAS, RAS, etc)

Good luck.

 

[dmac]

forgot to mention I had boot and crashes when my WD120 started dying. even
in safe mode. drives are pretty cheap, even if it doesn't fix the problem
might be good idea to keep an extra around.

--


David MacLeod
Etna, Maine USA
P4 2.8 OC to 3.13
1 GB DDR 466
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 Seagate 120 RAID 0

 

[dmac]

also forgot to say clean out all temp folders. ones under documents/settings
and windows. might be an errored temp file.

--


David MacLeod
Etna, Maine USA
P4 2.8 OC to 3.13
1 GB DDR 466
Radeon 9800 Pro 256 MB
2 Seagate 120 RAID 0

 

[Don Cohen]

Nothing like going crazy trying to track something like this down....

Boy, is that the truth. It has consumed an incredible amount of time and
mental energy.

From reading your posts and replies and what you've already done to
trouble shoot the problem, I believe it is very definitely a hardware
issue.

I appreciate the confirmation. That seems like the only logical conclusion,
but we all know how strange the truth can be at times...

I would suggest you not spend any more money on diagnostic programs or
the like. Of course a free one is always great to have. I'm not
sure I really trust AIDA32 to accurately monitor CPU voltages. The
best free application that I know of to do that is called "Motherboard
Monitor". You might wish to download and give it a try. Also, go to
the CPU makers web site and get the specs for your CPU. Both Intel
and AMD have spec sheets available which give the voltage and
temperature ranges for the CPUs they manufacture.

OK, I've downloaded and installed Motherboard Monitor. Definitely more
complex than AIDA32 to setup. But I think I have it now.

It shows Core Temp for CPU varying between 1.46V and 1.49V. I checked
Intel's site, found my chip (SL66S) and it shows the spec for Core Voltage
as 1.500V. So according to MbMonitor my core voltage is still on the low
side, but how significant this 0.1 to 0.4 volts is, I don't know.

Regarding additional diagnostic programs - I'd rather not buy more as well,
but at this point, I still don't have an answer as to what hardware is
faulty, and what to replace...

You may indeed have a bad motherboard or at least an intermittent
failing component on the board. It may even be memory related. I
don't recall you saying you swapped out the memory modules? Also, go
into your CMOS setup program and make sure all the settings for memory
are within specs. (CAS, RAS, etc)

I haven't done anything yet with the actual (4) memory modules. Memtest86
ran for over 13 hours/7passes, with no errors detected.


So bottom line - where do I go from here????

Thanks much for the help.

Don

 

[CS]

Boy, is that the truth. It has consumed an incredible amount of time and
mental energy.


I appreciate the confirmation. That seems like the only logical conclusion,
but we all know how strange the truth can be at times...


OK, I've downloaded and installed Motherboard Monitor. Definitely more
complex than AIDA32 to setup. But I think I have it now.

It shows Core Temp for CPU varying between 1.46V and 1.49V. I checked
Intel's site, found my chip (SL66S) and it shows the spec for Core Voltage
as 1.500V. So according to MbMonitor my core voltage is still on the low
side, but how significant this 0.1 to 0.4 volts is, I don't know.

Regarding additional diagnostic programs - I'd rather not buy more as well,
but at this point, I still don't have an answer as to what hardware is
faulty, and what to replace...


I haven't done anything yet with the actual (4) memory modules. Memtest86
ran for over 13 hours/7passes, with no errors detected.


So bottom line - where do I go from here????

Thanks much for the help.

Don

Hi Don:

I don't believe the low core voltage is the problem. If anything, a
lower core voltage will usually result in the CPU running a bit
cooler. It's when the core voltage begins to exceed specs that the
CPU may overheat and shut down.

Where you go from here depends a lot on whether or not the unexpected
shutdowns are tolerable. If they're not, (they wouldn't be for me)
you may want to think about swapping out the memory modules for known
good ones. Since memory is currently inexpensive you might want to
pull all four modules and replace two of them and try running the
machine for awhile with less memory to see if that cures the problem.
Memtest86 is a good in house memory tester but not as good as
substitution.

Another remedy might be to replace the motherboard. But if you're
going to do that, you may want to shop around for an upgraded board.
Of course that means a large expenditure but if you're thinking about
upgrading your system, now might be a good time to do it.

Fry's electronics (if there's one in your area) generally has very
good purchases on motherboard kits. Their kits come with CPU and
memory. Of course the price varies depending on the board, CPU,
amount of memory, etc. Something to think about.

I wish you well with your trouble shooting.

Regards.

 

[Don Cohen]

Hi Don:

I don't believe the low core voltage is the problem. If anything, a
lower core voltage will usually result in the CPU running a bit
cooler. It's when the core voltage begins to exceed specs that the
CPU may overheat and shut down.

Oh well....thought I was on to something....

Where you go from here depends a lot on whether or not the unexpected
shutdowns are tolerable.

Completely intolerable. I can't work on a system that could go down without
warning, corrupting and losing data, etc.

If they're not, (they wouldn't be for me)
you may want to think about swapping out the memory modules for known
good ones. Since memory is currently inexpensive you might want to
pull all four modules and replace two of them and try running the
machine for awhile with less memory to see if that cures the problem.
Memtest86 is a good in house memory tester but not as good as
substitution.

Well, this is do-able. Or I could just take out one at a time, and run
until it crashes or doesn't. Should run ok for most things with 768 mb.

Another remedy might be to replace the motherboard. But if you're
going to do that, you may want to shop around for an upgraded board.
Of course that means a large expenditure but if you're thinking about
upgrading your system, now might be a good time to do it.

Fry's electronics (if there's one in your area) generally has very
good purchases on motherboard kits. Their kits come with CPU and
memory. Of course the price varies depending on the board, CPU,
amount of memory, etc. Something to think about.

I'm willing to do this, but I worry - could it be the hard drives or optical
drives? If so, I could spend a lot of money and still not fix the problem.

That's why a program like Tuff-Test-Pro (if, in fact it really works, which
I have no data on) seems worth trying. I'm a physician, and would really
like to make a definite diagnosis, and not just keep operating until the
patient gets better (or dies!). Your thoughts on this???

Isn't there some reasonable way to identify the culprit????

I wish you well with your trouble shooting.

Clearly, I'm going to need it.

(I promise - this is my last set of questions to you).

Don

 

[PWY]

Oh well....thought I was on to something....


Completely intolerable. I can't work on a system that could go down without
warning, corrupting and losing data, etc.


Well, this is do-able. Or I could just take out one at a time, and run
until it crashes or doesn't. Should run ok for most things with 768 mb.


I'm willing to do this, but I worry - could it be the hard drives or optical
drives? If so, I could spend a lot of money and still not fix the problem.

That's why a program like Tuff-Test-Pro (if, in fact it really works, which
I have no data on) seems worth trying. I'm a physician, and would really
like to make a definite diagnosis, and not just keep operating until the
patient gets better (or dies!). Your thoughts on this???

Isn't there some reasonable way to identify the culprit????


Clearly, I'm going to need it.

(I promise - this is my last set of questions to you).

Don

Don:

Sorry to but in on this fishing expedition but it seems to me the only thing
common to all your events is the CD Rom you were using with the Windows
disk. Try unplugging it and see if problems continue. A long shot I know but
cheap to try.

Pwy

 

[Doug Knox MS-MVP]

Don,

The voltages for the various components (RAM, CPU and etc.) are controlled by voltage regulators on the motherboard. Granted, it could be a different component that is having issues, and causing a voltage drop across the entire system. It could also simply be the voltage regulator that supplies the CPU Core Voltage failing due to age.

Try removing all add-on cards, and anything but your primary hard disk (you will need to leave the video card in) and retest the system. If the voltage is normal, then add the hardware back one piece at a time until you see the voltage drop. If you still get the voltage difference, even with all extra hardware removed, then you're most likely looking at a motherboard replacement.