Core 2 - Reaching heat limits in near future?

[AdenOne]

Perhaps this is the wrong place for this, but here goes anyhow.

The Core architecture came about due to NetBurst (P4) having bad
thermal issues with speeds over 3.4GHz, and poor performance vs the
AMD competition. So Intel redesigned for more performance per clock,
IE better efficiency.

The first Core CPU's had speeds of about 1.8 up to 2.4GHz. Now we see
3GHz as the highest, so the Core 2 is now reaching P4 speeds, and
gradually its heat output has increased.

Now I realize the move to 45nm will mitigate the heat issues, which is
why LGA775 is still sufficient, even if its bus speed is reaching
limits. So, will we begin to see similar issues in future, when the
next-gen Core 2 reaches 3.4GHz or beyond? Or does the Core
architecture have enough headroom built in?

Nehalem will surely be a new architecture, based off the Core 2 but
improved upon, so are we are likely to see its core speeds drop back
down to the 2GHz area at first?

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "AdenOne" typed:

Perhaps this is the wrong place for this, but here goes anyhow.
OK.

The Core architecture came about due to NetBurst (P4) having bad
thermal issues with speeds over 3.4GHz, and poor performance vs the
AMD competition. So Intel redesigned for more performance per clock,
IE better efficiency.
Really?

The first Core CPU's had speeds of about 1.8 up to 2.4GHz. Now we see
3GHz as the highest,

Yet my lowly E4500 is overclocked to 3.3GHz running stable, cool and quiet
on air, albeit using an aftermarket cooler.

Xbit have successfully overclocked one of their 45nm sample to over 4.3GHz
on air:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/intel-wolfdale_12.html#sect0

so the Core 2 is now reaching P4 speeds, and
gradually its heat output has increased.

You have to factor in the fact that there are two or more CPUs on the die as
well. Then consider that, at the same clock, the Core CPU does twice the
work of the Netburst CPU... Computing power is always going to produce heat.

Now I realize the move to 45nm will mitigate the heat issues, which is
why LGA775 is still sufficient, even if its bus speed is reaching
limits.

Really? My FSB is currently 413MHz (or 1652 if you want to say it that way).
I've had it as high as 525MHz (2100) stable. Current CPUs are only at 1333,
there's a bit of headroom there yet.

So, will we begin to see similar issues in future, when the
next-gen Core 2 reaches 3.4GHz or beyond? Or does the Core
architecture have enough headroom built in?

Seems they'll only be about 10% cooler at full speed. It's when they're
idling/running at less than 100% that they'll save the most power.

Nehalem will surely be a new architecture, based off the Core 2 but
improved upon, so are we are likely to see its core speeds drop back
down to the 2GHz area at first?

I seriously doubt it.

 

[AdenOne]

Thank you for your slightly condescending reply. Unfortunately not all
readers of these forums are as experienced and knowledgeable as you
are, and so I gave some background information at first - there are
still people who think a Pentium 4 is better then some unknown "Core
thing" so a brief statement of the whole premise behind the Core
architecture is well placed, as it relates to the subject of my
thread.

As for your reply:

Xbit have successfully overclocked one of their 45nm sample to over 4.3GHz
on air:

And they also overclocked the P4 to over 4GHz - does not mean Intel
will release such chips.

Really? My FSB is currently 413MHz (or 1652 if you want to say it that way).
I've had it as high as 525MHz (2100) stable. Current CPUs are only at 1333,
there's a bit of headroom there yet.

Not according to Intel. Ime sure socket 478 would reach 1.33GHz FSB
too but it would render the chip unstable.

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "AdenOne" typed:

Thank you for your slightly condescending reply. Unfortunately not all
readers of these forums are as experienced and knowledgeable as you
are, and so I gave some background information at first - there are
still people who think a Pentium 4 is better then some unknown "Core
thing" so a brief statement of the whole premise behind the Core
architecture is well placed, as it relates to the subject of my
thread.

As for your reply:


And they also overclocked the P4 to over 4GHz - does not mean Intel
will release such chips.

No. However, the P4s that were overclocked to 4GHz+ were mature products.
(Second-generation P4s couldn't do anywhere near those speeds easilly). That
the first release 45nm/second generation Core CPUs can reach these levels
with a simple off-the-shelf cooler are a good sign.

There were multiple question marks in your post, you were asking for
opinion. That's mine.

Not according to Intel. Ime sure socket 478 would reach 1.33GHz FSB

Really? Could you supply some references please? I've been talking facts so
I assume that you are. You're "sure". That's not opinion.

too but it would render the chip unstable.

Sources please.

The X38 chipset (current) is slated to be designed for at least 1600MHz FSB.
Possibly (probably) higher with later CPUs and BIOS releases.

 

[Neoren]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "AdenOne" typed:




No. However, the P4s that were overclocked to 4GHz+ were mature products.
(Second-generation P4s couldn't do anywhere near those speeds easilly). That
the first release 45nm/second generation Core CPUs can reach these levels
with a simple off-the-shelf cooler are a good sign.

There were multiple question marks in your post, you were asking for
opinion. That's mine.



Really? Could you supply some references please? I've been talking facts so
I assume that you are. You're "sure". That's not opinion.


Sources please.

The X38 chipset (current) is slated to be designed for at least 1600MHz FSB.
Possibly (probably) higher with later CPUs and BIOS releases.

Shaun, I bought my p4 3.2 in 2004 and I am still using the same CPU. I
have not overclocked it, but I was experiencing bad heat issues for a
long time until I bought a $70 heatsink/fan combo, the best they had
at Fry's Hardware ( a big chain in california, US). I just purchased
an EVGA Geforce 8800 GT and an Asus P5N SLI board. I haven't bought
another card yet because my set is running smooth. I run windows
vista. I know a lot of people were hating on Vista for a long time but
I have found it to be an exceptional upgrade from windows XP. It runs
so smooth and I absolutely love the feature that prompts you whenever
a new program wants to use the cpu. It never crashes and the Windows
Onecare is intergrated seamlessly into vista without a hitch. I really
enjoy it. How do you feel about vista?

The way I got over the heat issues was also by buying a new video
card. I had an old ATI radeon 800xt and it would get so hot it would
crash my computer. It was one of those first generation PCI express
cards and it just wasn't stable. Now the card - well my Geforce by
EVGA has a *huge* heatsink on it which took care of all the heat
problems. Also I have an open case and it's open to the air. This
helps a lot with heat and I don't need tons of fans. Anways - Cheers
shaun.

Neo

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarweb "Neoren" typed:

Shaun, I bought my p4 3.2 in 2004 and I am still using the same CPU. I
have not overclocked it, but I was experiencing bad heat issues for a
long time until I bought a $70 heatsink/fan combo, the best they had
at Fry's Hardware ( a big chain in california, US). I just purchased
an EVGA Geforce 8800 GT and an Asus P5N SLI board. I haven't bought
another card yet because my set is running smooth. I run windows
vista. I know a lot of people were hating on Vista for a long time but
I have found it to be an exceptional upgrade from windows XP. It runs
so smooth and I absolutely love the feature that prompts you whenever
a new program wants to use the cpu. It never crashes and the Windows
Onecare is intergrated seamlessly into vista without a hitch. I really
enjoy it. How do you feel about vista?

I wouldn't use it again if I was given it and paid to use it... Unless it
was something like $25/hour.

The way I got over the heat issues was also by buying a new video
card. I had an old ATI radeon 800xt and it would get so hot it would
crash my computer. It was one of those first generation PCI express
cards and it just wasn't stable. Now the card - well my Geforce by
EVGA has a *huge* heatsink on it which took care of all the heat
problems. Also I have an open case and it's open to the air. This
helps a lot with heat and I don't need tons of fans. Anways - Cheers
shaun.

Cheers Neo,