Connection Refused - cannot access certain files

[Bobby]

Up until yesterday I was a happy surfer, never had a problem with accessing
Yahoo and its email services. That has now changed.

For some reason when I access Yahoo now I do not receive the gif images at
the top of the page anymore, their pathway is always to the same place (for
example http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/av/logo.gif ). It is not just
Yahoo, it is also Altavista and Alltheweb as well that have paths to the
same server.

I use XP on this machine and have both Internet Explorer and Firefox,
neither of which visualizes the images stemming from the above. When I try
going directly to the image I get a message in Firefox "connection refused".

I have 2 other machines here at home, both of which have no problem, they
are using ME. I've checked with some colleagues who have XP and no one else
has this problem.

I've also tried System Restore but that changes nothing.

Could it be that the above website is somehow refusing to allow me to
connect for some reason?

Could it have something to do with my local IP address on this machine?

 

[Chuck]

Up until yesterday I was a happy surfer, never had a problem with accessing
Yahoo and its email services. That has now changed.

For some reason when I access Yahoo now I do not receive the gif images at
the top of the page anymore, their pathway is always to the same place (for
example http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/av/logo.gif ). It is not just
Yahoo, it is also Altavista and Alltheweb as well that have paths to the
same server.

I use XP on this machine and have both Internet Explorer and Firefox,
neither of which visualizes the images stemming from the above. When I try
going directly to the image I get a message in Firefox "connection refused".

I have 2 other machines here at home, both of which have no problem, they
are using ME. I've checked with some colleagues who have XP and no one else
has this problem.

I've also tried System Restore but that changes nothing.

Could it be that the above website is somehow refusing to allow me to
connect for some reason?

Could it have something to do with my local IP address on this machine?

Bobby,

I've had this experience with Firefox and ad blocking, when I set my filters too
wide. Yahoo and other websites seem to be pushing their ads thru the same
servers that hold their logos and other small graphics, very likely to
discourage us from blocking their ads (DOHH).

Are you using any browser or proxy based ad blocking?

I note that "Alltheweb" is listed as a questionable website by HPGuru, one of
the sources that provides host-based filtering that I use. If you traditionally
surf to that website, it is vaguely possible that you picked up some software
that you may not want, i.e., spyware.

Start by downloading each of the following additional free tools:
AdAware <http://www.lavasoftusa.com/>
CWShredder <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4086.html>
HijackThis <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=3155>
LSP-Fix <http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm>
WinsockXPFix <http://www.spychecker.com/program/winsockxpfix.html>
Spybot S&D <http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=download>

Create a separate folder for HijackThis, such as C:\HijackThis - copy the
downloaded file there. AdAware, CWShredder, and Spybot S&D have install
routines - run them. The other downloaded programs can be copied into, and run
from, any convenient folder.

Next, close all Internet Explorer and Outlook windows, and run CWShredder. Have
it fix all problems found.

Next, run AdAware. First update it, configure for full scan
(<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=11150>), then scan. When
scanning finishes, remove all Critical Objects found.

Next, run Spybot S&D. First update it, then run a scan. Trust Spybot, and
delete everything ("Fix Problems") that is displayed in Red.

Then, run HijackThis ("Scan"). Do NOT make any changes immediately. Save the
HJT Log.
<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=227>

Finally, have your HJT log interpreted by experts at one or more of the
following security forums (and please post a link to your forum posts, here):
Aumha: <http://forum.aumha.org/index.php>
Net-Integration: <http://forums.net-integration.net/>
Spyware Info: <http://forums.spywareinfo.com/>
Spyware Warrior: <http://spywarewarrior.com/index.php>
Tom Coyote: <http://forums.tomcoyote.org/>

If removal of any spyware affects your ability to access the internet (some
spyware builds itself into the network software, and its removal may damage your
network), run LSP-Fix and / or WinsockXPFIx.

Finally, improve your chances for the future.

Harden your browser. There are various websites which will check for
vulnerabilities, here are three which I use.
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/BrowserSecurity/
http://bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/
https://testzone.secunia.com/browser_checker/

Consider using an alternative browser, like Firefox, for the majority of your
browsing activities.
<http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=4507&t=61>

Block Internet Explorer ActiveX scripting from dangerous websites (Restricted
Zone).
<https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ehowes/www/main.htm> (IE-SpyAd)

Block known dangerous scripts from installing.
<http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html>

Block known spyware from installing.
<http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareguard.html>

Make sure that the spyware detection / protection products that you use are
reliable:
http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

Harden your operating system. Check at least monthly for security updates.
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/

Block possibly dangerous websites with a Hosts file. Three Hosts file sources I
use:
http://www.accs-net.com/hosts/get_hosts.html
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
(The third is included, and updated, with Spybot (see above)).

Maintain your Hosts file (merge / eliminate duplicate entries) with:
eDexter <http://www.accs-net.com/hosts/get_hosts.html>
Hostess <http://accs-net.com/hostess/>

Secure your operating system, and applications. Don't use, or leave activated,
any accounts with names or passwords with trivial (guessable) values. Don't use
an account with administrative authority, except when you're intentionally doing
administrative tasks.

Use common sense. Yours. Don't install software based upon advice from unknown
sources. Don't install free software, without researching it carefully. Don't
open email unless you know who it's from, and how and why it was sent.

Educate yourself. Know what the risks are. Stay informed. Read Usenet, and
various web pages that discuss security problems. Check the logs from the
security products that you use regularly, look for things that don't belong, and
take action when necessary.

How did I get infected in the first place?
http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?showtopic=3051
Essential tips for infection prevention
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=24339

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[Bobby]

Bobby,

I've had this experience with Firefox and ad blocking, when I set my
filters too
wide. Yahoo and other websites seem to be pushing their ads thru the same
servers that hold their logos and other small graphics, very likely to
discourage us from blocking their ads (DOHH).

Are you using any browser or proxy based ad blocking?

I note that "Alltheweb" is listed as a questionable website by HPGuru, one
of
the sources that provides host-based filtering that I use. If you
traditionally
surf to that website, it is vaguely possible that you picked up some
software
that you may not want, i.e., spyware.

Start by downloading each of the following additional free tools:
AdAware <http://www.lavasoftusa.com/>
CWShredder <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4086.html>
HijackThis <http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=3155>
LSP-Fix <http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm>
WinsockXPFix <http://www.spychecker.com/program/winsockxpfix.html>
Spybot S&D <http://www.safer-networking.org/index.php?page=download>

Create a separate folder for HijackThis, such as C:\HijackThis - copy the
downloaded file there. AdAware, CWShredder, and Spybot S&D have install
routines - run them. The other downloaded programs can be copied into,
and run
from, any convenient folder.

Next, close all Internet Explorer and Outlook windows, and run CWShredder.
Have
it fix all problems found.

Next, run AdAware. First update it, configure for full scan
(<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=11150>), then scan.
When
scanning finishes, remove all Critical Objects found.

Next, run Spybot S&D. First update it, then run a scan. Trust Spybot,
and
delete everything ("Fix Problems") that is displayed in Red.

Then, run HijackThis ("Scan"). Do NOT make any changes immediately. Save
the
HJT Log.
<http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=227>

Finally, have your HJT log interpreted by experts at one or more of the
following security forums (and please post a link to your forum posts,
here):
Aumha: <http://forum.aumha.org/index.php>
Net-Integration: <http://forums.net-integration.net/>
Spyware Info: <http://forums.spywareinfo.com/>
Spyware Warrior: <http://spywarewarrior.com/index.php>
Tom Coyote: <http://forums.tomcoyote.org/>

If removal of any spyware affects your ability to access the internet
(some
spyware builds itself into the network software, and its removal may
damage your
network), run LSP-Fix and / or WinsockXPFIx.

Finally, improve your chances for the future.

Harden your browser. There are various websites which will check for
vulnerabilities, here are three which I use.
http://www.jasons-toolbox.com/BrowserSecurity/
http://bcheck.scanit.be/bcheck/
https://testzone.secunia.com/browser_checker/

Consider using an alternative browser, like Firefox, for the majority of
your
browsing activities.
<http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=4507&t=61>

Block Internet Explorer ActiveX scripting from dangerous websites
(Restricted
Zone).
<https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ehowes/www/main.htm> (IE-SpyAd)

Block known dangerous scripts from installing.
<http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html>

Block known spyware from installing.
<http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareguard.html>

Make sure that the spyware detection / protection products that you use
are
reliable:
http://www.spywarewarrior.com/rogue_anti-spyware.htm

Harden your operating system. Check at least monthly for security
updates.
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/

Block possibly dangerous websites with a Hosts file. Three Hosts file
sources I
use:
http://www.accs-net.com/hosts/get_hosts.html
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm
(The third is included, and updated, with Spybot (see above)).

Maintain your Hosts file (merge / eliminate duplicate entries) with:
eDexter <http://www.accs-net.com/hosts/get_hosts.html>
Hostess <http://accs-net.com/hostess/>

Secure your operating system, and applications. Don't use, or leave
activated,
any accounts with names or passwords with trivial (guessable) values.
Don't use
an account with administrative authority, except when you're intentionally
doing
administrative tasks.

Use common sense. Yours. Don't install software based upon advice from
unknown
sources. Don't install free software, without researching it carefully.
Don't
open email unless you know who it's from, and how and why it was sent.

Educate yourself. Know what the risks are. Stay informed. Read Usenet,
and
various web pages that discuss security problems. Check the logs from the
security products that you use regularly, look for things that don't
belong, and
take action when necessary.

How did I get infected in the first place?
http://forums.net-integration.net/index.php?showtopic=3051
Essential tips for infection prevention
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=24339

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

Chuck,

Thanks for you reply, I've tried implementing all the suggestions but still
no luck.
I have now posted on http://forums.spywareinfo.com and am trying to resolve
it there see:
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=42989&hl=
FYI I've also tried changing security settings but XP is not permitting me
to do so.
Is there a way to show you a screen capture either here or in the other
forum so as to show you what it looks like?

thanks,
Bobby

 

[Chuck]

Chuck,

Thanks for you reply, I've tried implementing all the suggestions but still
no luck.
I have now posted on http://forums.spywareinfo.com and am trying to resolve
it there see:
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=42989&hl=
FYI I've also tried changing security settings but XP is not permitting me
to do so.
Is there a way to show you a screen capture either here or in the other
forum so as to show you what it looks like?

Bobby,

You can easily "take a picture" of anything on the screen, and post it.
1) Hit Alt - Print Screen.
2) Start Paint (Programs - Accessories).
3) Paste (Ctrl - V) the image copied.
4) Trim the image if appropriate (please don't send the whole screen if a small
window is your problem).
5) Save the image as a .gif (best combo of color and size).
6) When you post to SWI Forums (or anywhere accepting attachments - just not
here), identify the .gif file just saved as your attachment.
7) Be patient in SWI Forums - they have a huge backlog of cases sometimes -
spyware is becoming a really big problem.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[Chuck]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:16:57 +0100, "Bobby" <*email_address_deleted*> wrote:

Chuck,

Thanks for you reply, I've tried implementing all the suggestions but still
no luck.
I have now posted on http://forums.spywareinfo.com and am trying to resolve
it there see:
http://forums.spywareinfo.com/index.php?showtopic=42989&hl=
FYI I've also tried changing security settings but XP is not permitting me
to do so.
Is there a way to show you a screen capture either here or in the other
forum so as to show you what it looks like?

Bobby,

I'm reviewing your case at SWI Forums. You say "Just a bit of info, the other
night just before the problem occurred, my antivirus program (AVG) detected a
trojan in the temporary internet files and I deleted it.".

If your problem started just after removing crapware, check for LSP / Winsock
corruption.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=318584
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=811259

If your XP is RTM or Service Pack 1:
1. Backup and delete the following registry keys:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Winsock
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Winsock2
2. Reboot.
3. Open the network connections folder, right click your network connection, and
click Properties.
4. Click Install | Protocol | Add.
5. Click "Have Disk...", type "\windows\inf" in the box, and click OK.
6. Click "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)", then click OK.
7. Reboot.

If XP SP2:
1. Start - Run - "cmd".
2. Type "netsh winsock reset catalog" into the command window.

Give LSP-Fix <http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm>, WinsockFix
<http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=257>, or WinsockXPFix
<http://www.spychecker.com/program/winsockxpfix.html> a shot.

If no help yet, reset TCP/IP.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=299357

Start - Run - "cmd". Type "netsh int ip reset c:\netsh.txt" into the command
window.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[Bobby]

Bobby,

I'm reviewing your case at SWI Forums. You say "Just a bit of info, the
other
night just before the problem occurred, my antivirus program (AVG)
detected a
trojan in the temporary internet files and I deleted it.".

If your problem started just after removing crapware, check for LSP /
Winsock
corruption.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=318584
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=811259

If your XP is RTM or Service Pack 1:
1. Backup and delete the following registry keys:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Winsock
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Winsock2
2. Reboot.
3. Open the network connections folder, right click your network
connection, and
click Properties.
4. Click Install | Protocol | Add.
5. Click "Have Disk...", type "\windows\inf" in the box, and click OK.
6. Click "Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)", then click OK.
7. Reboot.

If XP SP2:
1. Start - Run - "cmd".
2. Type "netsh winsock reset catalog" into the command window.

Give LSP-Fix <http://www.cexx.org/lspfix.htm>, WinsockFix
<http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=257>, or WinsockXPFix
<http://www.spychecker.com/program/winsockxpfix.html> a shot.

If no help yet, reset TCP/IP.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=299357

Start - Run - "cmd". Type "netsh int ip reset c:\netsh.txt" into the
command
window.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

Chuck,

I'm not sure how to post the image at swi so I've placed it on the server:
http://www.sunstreams.com/swi/problem.gif
Perhaps we can simply move over to the swi forum rather than jump between
the two.

thanks,
Bobby

 

[Chuck]

Chuck,

I'm not sure how to post the image at swi so I've placed it on the server:
http://www.sunstreams.com/swi/problem.gif
Perhaps we can simply move over to the swi forum rather than jump between
the two.

Bobby,

SWI Forums used to be a great place for tech help of all types. Right now, with
the avalanche of spyware assaulting the computer community, they're focusing
very tightly on just spyware issues, and just keeping up with that.

I try not to post at SWI Forums unless the issue is something indicated in a
HijackThis log, or similar, and when it is, the experts like Mike generally are
way ahead of me. Right now, it's looking like your HJT log doesn't indicate
that - I have to agree with Mike there.

If it's not an active spyware infection, a common cause would indeed be
excessive temporary internet files, so Mike's recommendation was valid. But not
useful in your case.

LSP / Winsock corruption is the next possibility, and is symptomatic of the
situation indicated in your picture. Which SP level is your Windows XP system?
If SP2, the "netsh winsock reset catalog" is your best bet. If not SP2, try one
of the other reparative procedures.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[Bobby]

LSP / Winsock corruption is the next possibility, and is symptomatic of

the
situation indicated in your picture. Which SP level is your Windows XP
system?
If SP2, the "netsh winsock reset catalog" is your best bet. If not SP2,
try one
of the other reparative procedures.

Chuck,

First I'd just thank you for your attempts to work this out with me, I
appreciate it.

I'm using SP2
I tried the "netsh winsock reset catalog" in the command window, but no
luck.
I also downloaded and tried LSP-Fix but again no luck.

This may seem like a silly question but if I somehow manage to change my
local IP address (I have 3 computers networked here) do you think it might
make a difference?

 

[Chuck]

Chuck,

First I'd just thank you for your attempts to work this out with me, I
appreciate it.

I'm using SP2
I tried the "netsh winsock reset catalog" in the command window, but no
luck.
I also downloaded and tried LSP-Fix but again no luck.

This may seem like a silly question but if I somehow manage to change my
local IP address (I have 3 computers networked here) do you think it might
make a difference?

Bobby,

Is your problem computer behind a NAT router, with the 2 ME computers? If so, I
don't think changing your ip address (how do you get it anyway?) will make much
difference.

What's the web address for that page that's pictured at
http://www.sunstreams.com/swi/problem.gif ? Have you tried that same address on
the 2 ME computers?

One more possibility - check your MTU.
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article04-107
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=314825
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=319661
http://www.allensmith.net/Windows/ICS/xpICSmtu.htm

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[Bobby]

Bobby,

Is your problem computer behind a NAT router, with the 2 ME computers? If
so, I
don't think changing your ip address (how do you get it anyway?) will make
much
difference.

What's the web address for that page that's pictured at
http://www.sunstreams.com/swi/problem.gif ? Have you tried that same
address on
the 2 ME computers?

One more possibility - check your MTU.
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article04-107
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=314825
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=319661
http://www.allensmith.net/Windows/ICS/xpICSmtu.htm

Chuck, I need to send you and Mike a bottle of wine or at the very least
invite you to stay with us (we have a B&B here in northern Italy) if you
ever want to visit.
Mike found the solution:

us.i1.yimg.com failed and resolves to 0.0.0.0
Which is usually an entry in your HOSTS file.

Open Windows Explorer to:

C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc

Open HOSTS in Notepad
Click Edit (up top) select: Find

(type) i1.yimg.com

If found you can disable that entry by placing a "comment" in front of the
entry.
[before]
0.0.0.0 i1.yimg.com

[after]
#0.0.0.0 i1.yimg.com

File > Save > Exit, then see if you can access Yahoo (images)

Works like a charm!
Thanks for all your help.

ciao
Bobby

 

[Chuck]

Bobby,

Is your problem computer behind a NAT router, with the 2 ME computers? If
so, I
don't think changing your ip address (how do you get it anyway?) will make
much
difference.

What's the web address for that page that's pictured at
http://www.sunstreams.com/swi/problem.gif ? Have you tried that same
address on
the 2 ME computers?

One more possibility - check your MTU.
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article04-107
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=314825
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=319661
http://www.allensmith.net/Windows/ICS/xpICSmtu.htm

Chuck, I need to send you and Mike a bottle of wine or at the very least
invite you to stay with us (we have a B&B here in northern Italy) if you
ever want to visit.
Mike found the solution:

us.i1.yimg.com failed and resolves to 0.0.0.0
Which is usually an entry in your HOSTS file.

Open Windows Explorer to:

C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc

Open HOSTS in Notepad
Click Edit (up top) select: Find

(type) i1.yimg.com

If found you can disable that entry by placing a "comment" in front of the
entry.
[before]
0.0.0.0 i1.yimg.com

[after]
#0.0.0.0 i1.yimg.com

File > Save > Exit, then see if you can access Yahoo (images)

Works like a charm!
Thanks for all your help.

ciao
Bobby

That's awesome, Bobby. I sure hope you find out what caused your hosts file to
end up like that. Did you by any chance note the name of the trojan deleted
earlier?

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

 

[Bobby]

That's awesome, Bobby. I sure hope you find out what caused your hosts

file to
end up like that. Did you by any chance note the name of the trojan
deleted
earlier?

I can't remember what it was because I had a million windows open and was
researching some "pagejackers" domains and didn't really pay much attention.
I don't know if that is what caused the host file to change, it might have
been the fact that I keep another program open sometimes called "Trillian"
which is like MSN Messenger or ICQ, it allows me to open chat windows with
my uncle in the U.S. who uses, AOL, or my colleagues here in Italy who have
ICQ etc., it basically monitors all chat programs.
The thing also uses my yahoo account to do so, and there is a way of
directly clicking and accessing my web mail in Yahoo (something I don't like
which wasn't on the earlier version of Trillian), I think that's actually
what did it.

Hey Chuck, I'm serious about that invitation...you guys really did me a good
turn.
www.bed-breakfast-italy.com

 

[Chuck]

I can't remember what it was because I had a million windows open and was
researching some "pagejackers" domains and didn't really pay much attention.
I don't know if that is what caused the host file to change, it might have
been the fact that I keep another program open sometimes called "Trillian"
which is like MSN Messenger or ICQ, it allows me to open chat windows with
my uncle in the U.S. who uses, AOL, or my colleagues here in Italy who have
ICQ etc., it basically monitors all chat programs.
The thing also uses my yahoo account to do so, and there is a way of
directly clicking and accessing my web mail in Yahoo (something I don't like
which wasn't on the earlier version of Trillian), I think that's actually
what did it.

Hey Chuck, I'm serious about that invitation...you guys really did me a good
turn.
www.bed-breakfast-italy.com

Bobby,

That's one (of many) frustrating things about computers - sometimes you can
cause a problem, but not see the problem till way to late to do anything (or
even realise the cause). Oh well.

If this ever happens again, you might want to look into real-time protection
that monitors the Hosts file - MS AntiSpyware (currently in Beta and not
recommended right now) will monitor the Hosts file and more. AdAware Pro ($$)
will do likewise. Maybe other solutions too.

I've used Trillian before. Good concept, but harder to setup than the native
messengers (MS Messenger, Yahoo Messenger, etc) because the proprietors of those
services would prefer that they not provide an open network that any client can
attach to - they want you to use their client program if you're gonna use their
network. It's been a while though, so maybe I'll revisit Trillian.

I seriously doubt that any IM program will alter the Hosts file to that extent -
I saw your post in SWIF. Gack. IMHO had to be malware that did that.

You might want to use another news client than Outlook Express, so you can avoid
broadcasting your email address to every spambot cruising Usenet.
http://www.mailmsg.com/SPAM_munging.htm

If I'm ever in Europe, I'll definitely drop by. Thanks for the invite.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.