Computer Locks Up - bad

G

Guest

It is common for windows to lock up after running for a few hours, because of
the unstable kernel it uses. Your case might be normal...

But if not, your hard drive might be the problem. If you have a slow
hard-drive, then it can slow your computer WAY down. I suggest you find out
how old your hard-drive is and perhaps update any drivers for it.
 
D

D.H. Cesare

The computer:

WinXP Pro, 2.66mHz, 1024MB RAM, primary drive 160G WD, slave drive 60G WD,
CD-ROM/Burner, DVD burner, Acer 19" Flat Panel LCD monitor. The computer
has a 5 cooling fans total.



Started locking up once in awhile and got progressively worse over a period
of about 3 weeks, to where it would lock up anywhere from a few seconds
after it started to an hour or so. It acted like a video card so a new
Nvidia (PNY) 256MB GeForce 6600 was installed. It still locked up.

I ran all the diagnostics on the Ultimate Boot CD, along with a couple other
diagnostic programs for the video card and the HDD's.

The only problem found was the Motherboard temperature and the processor
temp. were too high. I changed the motherboard and the processor. The heat
problem was fixed, (it was probably a bad sensor) but the machine still
locked up.



So I did a "clean" reinstall of WinXP Pro - it still locked up.

I hooked up a new mouse - still locked up.

I took the machine to Computer Nerdz who charged me $60 and told me the
power source was not adequate for the machine's requirements, so I installed
a new Allied 450W power source. The machine still locked up.

The locks up from a few minutes to a few hours run time.



I took the computer back to Computer Nerdz and sat with it for 21/4 hours in
which time it didn't lock up.

So we thought the auxiliary power supply might be the culprit, even though
the "B" computer which is hooked to the same APS was not experiencing any
problems. I decided to completely isolate the computer from all peripherals
and the computer room in general, so I moved the computer into the garage
where it could be on it's own circuit, and hooked up the monitor, mouse, and
keyboard only.




The machine ran for 9 hours and then locked up. I called Nerdz and the
technician told me it was probably the monitor and to try a new monitor
cable first. I purchased a new cable and installed it - the computer ran 13
hours, then locked up.

So I replaced the new Acer monitor with my old SVGA monitor - the computer
ran 11 hours then locked up.



To summarize:

I have replaced:

The Operating system, (clean reinstall)

The motherboard, processor, heat-sink & fan

The mouse, keyboard and monitor

The video card

I have isolated the machine from the "computer room".

I have run WD's diagnostics on both WD HDD's

I have removed the RAM chips one-by-one and run the machine on each chip
separately. Same lock-up. The chips pass the diagnostics 100%



The System Log shows no negative events; the machine has locked up 3 times
when I opened that log.



The technicians and I are at a total lose.

Someone please help.

Thank you.


*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
It is bad luck to be superstitious.
 
G

Guest

It seems you've tried to isolate any hardware issues, and couldn't find any
that were causing this problem. You've replaced pretty much everything you
can replace. My only thought is maybe the power supply (i.e. AC current) is
unstable? Do you have it plugged into a reliable UPS? Give that a shot. I
suggest APC.

Otherwise, why not just get a new computer? What kind of motherboard / CPU
do you have in this system? What kind of RAM?

Best Wishes,
Kurosh
 
D

D.H. Cesare

I have isolated the system from the 1250 APC and all peripherals.
Motherboard: MSI PM8M3-V
RAM: 2 - 512MB Kingston DDR 4000
 
L

LS \(V\)

The line in your post ("The computer has a 5 cooling fans total"),
suggests to me that there may be an "Airflow" problem in the case.
Perhaps the "Techs" left the case open to check it while in their shop.
Check the case to see if there is an equal amount of air going in as
coming out of the case.
"Is there an equal amount of fan exaust
as to the intake air"? The Airflow may be holding in the heat causing
lockup.
Also, check the CPU Fan for proper contact and make sure the
Thermal Tape (or Thermal Paste) is properly applied to cover the CPU top.
 
D

D.H. Cesare

Computer Nerdz says the updated the BIOS for this is the new motherboard. I
replaced the old Asus board and the processor when I started having the
lockup problem.
 
W

w_tom

Computer Nerdz says the updated the BIOS for this is the new motherboard. I
replaced the old Asus board and the processor when I started having the
lockup problem.

When Computer Nerdz said bad voltage, then what are those numbers?
'Good or bad', 'Go/Nogo', etc are not sufficient reasons for action.
I read a long list of shotgunning - no 'follow the evidence' as even
advocated in CSI.

For example, where is the list of hardware items that can cause your
failure? That list is short; mouse is definitely not on it.

Having replaced the power supply, well, your power supply 'system'
can still be defective. Why? System is more than just a power
supply and where are the numbers?

IOW having done that, then everything is still unknown. By
shotgunning anything can still be defective; and may now be
complicated by more things being defective.

Start all over. Disconnect nothing. Change nothing. Make no
changes until numbers say otherwise. Start with the foundation of a
computer - power supply 'system'. Notice I did not say power supply.
Procedure is in "When your computer dies without warning....."
starting 6 Feb 2007 in the newsgroup alt.windows-xp at:
http://tinyurl.com/yvf9vh

Do nothing else until the power supply 'system' is accused or
exonerated. Get the numbers. And once a 'system' is exonerated, then
let it alone - it is 100% known good. Nothing done previously gave
you a 100% definitive answer. Just more reasons to not shotgun.
 
D

D.H. Cesare

I guess I didn't mention that I had gotten out my trusty little multimeter
and tested the voltage on the new power supply and they meet the standards.
It's still locking up. I'm going to reinstall the old video card for 24
hours and if that doesn't help, I'm going to change the HDD. Don't know
what else to do.
Thanx
 
D

D.H. Cesare

The fans are set up to smoothly move the air in from the front and the side,
then out the back. There is no "conflict" in air flow.

LS (V) said:
The line in your post ("The computer has a 5 cooling fans total"),
suggests to me that there may be an "Airflow" problem in the case.
Perhaps the "Techs" left the case open to check it while in their shop.
Check the case to see if there is an equal amount of air going in as
coming out of the case.
"Is there an equal amount of fan exaust
as to the intake air"? The Airflow may be holding in the heat causing
lockup.
Also, check the CPU Fan for proper contact and make sure the
Thermal Tape (or Thermal Paste) is properly applied to cover the CPU top.
 
W

w_tom

I guess I didn't mention that I had gotten out my trusty little multimeter
and tested the voltage on the new power supply and they meet the standards.
It's still locking up. I'm going to reinstall the old video card for 24
hours and if that doesn't help, I'm going to change the HDD. Don't know
what else to do.

What numbers? Those numbers may tell me things you don't realize.
Don't short your help of information. Meanwhile what were your lower
limits? 3..23, 4.87, and 11.7?

Meanwhile, disk drive is not on the list of items that lock up a
computer. There are a long list of other solutions which make that
previous post the equivalent of a movie trailer. But first, we do not
yet have sufficient information to move on to other suspects. Those
voltages also must be provided - and taken when all peripherals are
being accessed simultaneously. For example, watching a movie while
downloading a file and searching a floppy disk. All that must be
ongoing while measuring voltages on red, orange, yellow, and purple
wires.
 
D

D.H. Cesare

No peripherals are hooked to the computer. I have just installed a new WD
160G HDD and the only thing installed on it is WinXP Pro and the updated
Nvidia drivers. It's still locking up. It's isolated on a different
electrical circuit from the rest of the computer room and all peripherals.
The voltages are 3.26, 5.21, 12.24. They don't fluxuate except the 3.26
goes to 3.28 and back to 3.26.
 
W

w_tom

No peripherals are hooked to the computer. I have just installed a new WD
160G HDD and the only thing installed on it is WinXP Pro and the updated
Nvidia drivers. It's still locking up. It's isolated on a different
electrical circuit from the rest of the computer room and all peripherals.
The voltages are 3.26, 5.21, 12.24. They don't fluxuate except the 3.26
goes to 3.28 and back to 3.26.

The video controller, disk drive, sound card, video controller,
network interface, mouse, keyboard, USB port, etc are all computer
peripherals.

Meanwhile, four essential voltages exist - red, orange, yellow, and
purple wires. I assume that is the red wire voltage. Those voltages
look good.

By locking up, this post assumes the mouse no longer moves, Cntrl-
Alt-Del does not result in window with options, and it just happens
whether application software is running or not. Correct?

OK. The list of items that can do that is small. Once we get all
voltages, then the power supply system is removed from the suspect
list. Sound card, video controller, CPU, and memory (and motherboard
circuits associated with those peripherals) are the only components
that can crash (lockout) a system. I have heard of problems created
by the NIC which otherwise would not be on the list.

How locked up is the system? Well copy this text into a file using
notepad. Save this text as the file c:\tmp.bat .
:ABC
dir c:\*.* /s
goto abc

This is a program that will only read and list all files on the
harddrive continuously. Select Start>Run . Enter the filename c:
\tmp.bat . A command prompt window will open and display files
continuously. Put that small window in a corner and let it run.
When system locks, does that window also stop displaying file? This
to better determine what is happening when the system locks up.

Meanwhile, move on to other items on that list of suspects. For
example, without Windows loaded, then run those hardware diagnostics
again. For example, run the memory diagnostic. Then heat that memory
with a hairdryer on high; make the memory uncomfortable to touch which
is perfectly normal temperature to memory. However if the memory has
an intermittent problem, then heat will make that intermittent failure
occur frequently. After running the full memory diagnostic a few
times without failure with memory and chips that connect to that
memory (follow PC traces) heated as hot as the hairdryer can make it;
only then are those component now know to be good.

Heat is a diagnostic tool. Use that hairdryer on high liberally on
those other suspects - soundcard, video controller, etc.

As I recall, there were no error messages in the system (event) log
and the hardware (device) manager shows no conflicts. Correct?

Once each hardware item passes diagnostics also when heated, only
then move on to software drivers for those peripherals. Verify each
software driver (as listed in device manager) is current revision. Or
try this experiment: disable the sound card completely (with hardware
still installed). It should not even appear enabled in device
manager. Now run the system. If system crashes without that
peripheral even enabled, well that peripheral is only maybe removed
from the list. Obviously anything to expedite the crash would help
the testing. Again, what is a good tool to find hardware that causes
crashing? That hairdryer on high. Heating selective components as
hot as possible. If that causes crashes, then we have information to
work with.
 
D

D.H. Cesare

EVERYTHING locks up.
The problem turned out to be the Nvidia video drivers, both the original and
the updated drivers. After repeatedly reinstalling Windows I finally didn't
bother reinstalling the Nvidia drivers and the problem disappeared. I let
the machine run 24 hour with the GeForce 6600 in, but did not install the
drivers and the computer never missed a beat. This morning I installed a
Radeon 9550, all software and drivers, and the machine is cooking, no
problems.
Thank you very much for your help.
 

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