Charlie
You here in Des Moines also. At 1st I hated the idea of moving from a town
and county where the population was less than 10,000, but now that I am here
I still don't like it. Too many people. If I wanted to be around this many
crazy drivers I could have just driven the 70 minutes to Tulsa.
As for the road work. 235 is a nightmare. If and when they ever finish the
"rebuilding" it might be nice, but I don't think any of us will be alive
then. My wife drives to Jefferson 2 days a week. As we live on the SE edge
of Des Moines, she just loves those mornings.
She really hates the drive downtown the other 3 mornings. Nothing like a
train going through at 7:30 am by the courthouse on 6th to back things up.
Got to love it.
The folks who live here run around complaining about the heat when it gets
up to 90, wonder what they would when it is 100+ for 3 weeks with the
humidity around 85%. And as for the winter, you people ever heard of a coat.
13 inches of snow on the ground, temp at or near 10 degrees, and the
neighbor is cleaning off his car in a suite coat! I had a winter parka on
and I was freezing. All I kept hearing this winter is "this is a mild
winter, not much snow and not very cold".
I guess I am getting old, I can't take the cold anymore.
But the "State" demo derby championships at the fair grounds this last
weekend were fun. Wife and boys really enjoyed them. Loved the "halftime
show". They melted a dodge mini-van with a jet dragster. That was fun to
watch.
Nice State, but way too many people here in the "Metro" area
--
"old' devildog
-- Semper Fi --
Ham and eggs. A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.
The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson.
------------------------------
| Welcome to the two seasons of Iowa, Winter and Road Work.
|
| Just to summarize I don't think anyone intends to pigeonhole software but
OE
| suffers from some persistent problems which are "Usually caused by" or
| "Often caused by" and the default scenario seems to be that the most
popular
| (Glamorous sounding) software gets bought by new users. Turning off email
| scanning is often the simple and quick cure for one of these "typical"
| problems. It doesn't help that some firewalls dramatize things as
"Servers"
| and make it sound like the PC is being possessed
|
| As an aside Mediacom here in Des Moines are not bad. I hear rumors that
they
| may offer telephone service soon and I think they have invested in decent
| equipment.
|
| Charlie
|
| ""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
| | > Sorry I have been out of the loop for a day or so.
| >
| > It is hard to keep up with the NG's and take care of a 2 1/2 year old
sick
| > son (yes at 60 I have a 2 1/2 year old. As I am retired, I am the
| > "stay-at-home Dad"). I am not saying all of the MVP's give "canned
| > answers",
| > but a few do. I have used quite a few of the MVP's web sites ( Kelly's
for
| > one) to cure small problems over the years. Most of the time I can find
| > the
| > answer to a problem on one of the sites, download the fix or follow the
| > directions. I maybe retired, but I still do a few fixes on computers in
my
| > spare time. Lately for the staff where my wife works. I am cheap, my
| > charge
| > is nothing, unless they have to have parts, then they just pay me my out
| > of
| > pocket expenses.
| >
| > I have used SystemSuite (X.X) for over 7 years now, and none of the
| > problems
| > with corruption of the folders in OE has ever happened. The only problem
| > folders in OE are the 2 bulk mail folders from the hotmail accounts. I
| > only
| > sync the headers on these 2 folders, just to make sure something has not
| > be
| > sent there by mistake. Most days I just delete the contents. Once in a
| > blue
| > moon something get there by mistake. But at least once a month, the
| > folders
| > become corrupted, I delete them and close OE. Reopen OE and they are
back
| > and working just fine. They are never scanned by the e-mail anti-virus
| > program, so the corruption is not caused by the anti-virus e-mail scan.
| >
| > Please don't group the software I choose to use into the same catagory
as
| > Nortons or McAfees. It actually works well with Microsoft products, is
| > easy
| > to uninstall, and does not place hooks through the entire system. It is
| > well
| > written, with an easy to use interface. Something most "newbies" need
| > today.
| > The 6 Pro Edition I use, maybe not be the best for all the "newbies" but
| > the
| > 5.0 will work well for them. Before making a blanket statement about the
| > e-mail virus scanning, at least check out or use the software that is
| > being
| > used. Not all software is as bad, or works as poorly as Nortons.
| >
| > I will admit, I was looking for signs that butthead was still posting on
| > microsoft NG's the before looking at this thread. Too bad he is back
| > again.
| >
| > I do know I am not going to spend the time to go to Mediacom's web based
| > e-mail to delete, before downloading. they have zero anti-virus in
place.
| > They provide the internet connection as well as the "mail boxes". Their
| > web
| > based e-mail interface is not the best. Hotmail has a better interface,
| > and
| > I don't go there unless I have to. The 2 accounts I have were
| > 'grandfather"
| > to use OE as they have been active since '96 & '99. They were nice to
use
| > as e-mailm forwards, when we moved from the "sticks" in SE Kansas to the
| > "big city" in Iowa in January, as it took 2 weeks before Mediacom could
| > get
| > out to hook up the digital cable and internet. I used a "dial-up" for
| > those
| > 2 weeks, pure h*ll. It had been 3 years since I did a "dial-up", no
wonder
| > I
| > went to cable. It sometimes took 20 minutes to download from hotmail.
| > --
| > "old' devildog
| > -- Semper Fi --
| >
| > My 1st wife and I divorced over religious differences. She thought she
was
| > God and I didn't.
| > The trouble with life is there's no background music.
| > ------------------------------
| >
| > | > | If MS told us what to say, there would be very few if any OE MVPs.
| > |
| > | steve
| > |
| > | | > | > Well thanks for the Resume
.
| > | >
| > | > As I see from Robear's post I think your comments may have come over
| > the
| > | > wrong way to some of us. Robear is correct, "Empirical" answers are
| > the
| > | > only practical way to go here. I try to avoid things I am not 100%
| > sure
| > | > about, although sometimes it's quite practical to throw ideas in the
| > mix
| > | > as long as the limitations are stated.
| > | >
| > | > I have had trouble with AVG - it seems to me that the email scanning
| > does
| > | > cause OE to choke and I think it's because of a file locking /
timing
| > | > issue, but that I guess from the randomness and the symptoms rather
| > than
| > | > knowledge of AVG. What is clear is that OE is not designed to be
| > | > interrupted outside of the normal flow of data between itself and
the
| > | > "Server" and whether it is "Broken" or "Intolerant" compared to
other
| > mail
| > | > programs is not the issue really, the fact is it dislikes anything
| > | > interfereing.
| > | >
| > | > I had endless trouble with Norton (although the corporate edition
that
| > I
| > | > "Borrowed" for a few weeks was much better) and MacAfee, well, I
gave
| > up
| > | > on that years ago. Some of the machines at work had Trend products
| > | > installed, it too seems to cause trouble but to be honest I avoid
| > getting
| > | > involved at work because it's not my job and I have quite enough to
do
| > | > thank you
.
| > | >
| > | > What I do use is a mail filter called Popfile, so if it's of
interest
| > I
| > | > will give brief details.
| > | >
| > | > It sets up a bayes filtering proxy - can be on the local machine or
| > | > another - and it has filtered 250,000 emails in about a year without
a
| > | > sigle hiccup from OE. All it does is add a [label] to the subject
line
| > It
| > | > allows me to pick out such things as lottery / nigerian scams, work
| > | > related stuff, personal stuff and acceptable general mailings with
| > | > remarkable accuracy. I am just now trying it on a remote machine
with
| > OE
| > | > getting mails through there and again no problems. It is simply a
| > "Pass
| > | > through" except when it adds some text to the subject line.
| > | >
| > | > This leads me to think that either trying to pull out a message
causes
| > a
| > | > timing fault or else the proxy tries to "Feed" OE something it isn't
| > | > expecting. Because OE is creating database records "On the fly" I
| > suspect
| > | > this is where the proxy problems come from. This may not be the
| > Proxy's
| > | > fault at all, it could well be something in OE's handling, but the
| > fact
| > it
| > | > is does provoke corruptions problems and that is undeniable.
| > | >
| > | > Most MVPs here tend to try and compile "Stock Replies" because the
| > same
| > | > questions crop up many times. This is not laziness, it is an attempt
| > to
| > | > give as many users as possible at least a clue where to look.
| > Questions
| > | > asked here get the benefit of real life experiences with more
| > combinations
| > | > of circumstances and machines and software than even Microsoft could
| > | > feasibly study. I'm quite sure your own real life experiences are
| > equally
| > | > valuable but please understand that nobody (as far as I know) gets a
| > list
| > | > of "What to say" from Microsoft or anybody else. Occasionally you
will
| > | > find an MS employee around, and sometimes MVPs get asked for
comments
| > and
| > | > trust me, your criticisms DO get passed on, however it's sometimes
| > akin
| > to
| > | > turning an oil tanker... either not very quick or simply impossible
| > given
| > | > other constraints.
| > | >
| > | > All the best,
| > | >
| > | > Charlie
| > | >
| > | > ""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
| > | > | > | >> Charlie
| > | >>
| > | >> I do speak from real life. I have used OE personally since '98 for
my
| > | >> email.
| > | >> At one time it retrieved from Yahoo Mail and Hotmail only. I never
| > used
| > | >> the
| > | >> e-mail account setups available from my ISP. When Yahoo Mail locked
| > out
| > | >> OE I
| > | >> dropped my accounts with them. I still use 2 Hotmail accounts as
| > "spam"
| > | >> accounts. They are synced ( headers only) when I download my ISP
| > | >> accounts.
| > | >> Too bad rules can't be applied to the hotmail accounts. I have
never
| > had
| > | >> a
| > | >> corrupted e-mail or folder caused from running anti-virus e-mail
| > scanning
| > | >> in
| > | >> the last 7 years (is this real world enough). The only corrupted
| > folders
| > | >> that have happened so far are the Hotmail bulk folders. As the junk
| > in
| > | >> them
| > | >> is not important, when it happens I just delete them and when OE
| > opens
| > | >> again
| > | >> they return empty and working until the compaction corruption
happens
| > | >> again.
| > | >> This happens at least 1 time a month. The Micro-Trend e-mail scan
| > does
| > | >> not
| > | >> scan the hotmail accounts. It only scans the POP3 accounts. It does
| > not
| > | >> scan
| > | >> the HTTP (hotmail) accounts. I have never even tried to set it to
do
| > so
| > | >> and
| > | >> I am not sure it can be set to do so. The only time the OE folders
| > | >> themselves are scanned by the anti-virus scan is when I do a deep
| > scan
| > on
| > | >> the computer, both HD's are scanned, but OE is not running, in fact
I
| > am
| > | >> sleeping when this happens, so the scan is the only thing running.
If
| > | >> e-mail
| > | >> scanning corrupts then why doesn't the real time scans preformed
each
| > and
| > | >> every time an app is started corrupt the files in the app? The
| > reason
| > is
| > | >> the scan takes place before the app is launched and any files are
| > opened.
| > | >> Some way with e-mail scanning. As long as you do not use the
preview
| > | >> window
| > | >> (should not even be able to use on e-mail, in newsgroups it is ok
to
| > use
| > | >> the
| > | >> preview window), the email is scanned before you open it, therefore
| > logic
| > | >> dictates, the file is not damaged
| > | >>
| > | >> Yes the "proxy" as you call it is on my computer (it is still just
a
| > temp
| > | >> folder, used to hold files to be scanned), but the incoming e-mail
| > from
| > | >> all
| > | >> POP3 accounts are shunted to a temp folder, a scan is run and then
it
| > is
| > | >> sent to OE. It does not attempt to recover, repair or strip the
| > infected
| > | >> attachment of any e-mail it flag's, it just deletes it. I receive a
| > pop
| > | >> up
| > | >> telling me the e-mail was deleted and the name of the virus it
| > contained.
| > | >> I
| > | >> set it up that way, because if it has virus signatures in the
| > attachment
| > | >> or
| > | >> in the body I want it gone, not floating around on my HD, as with a
| > wife
| > | >> and
| > | >> 2 sons (13 & 11) on line and reading e-mail I take no chances. The
| > boys
| > | >> are
| > | >> never allowed to be on line without supervision. I love my wife
| > dearly,
| > | >> but
| > | >> internet security is something she doesn't understand. Her Masters
is
| > not
| > | >> in
| > | >> Computer Science (she is a physiologist). She will open any e-mail
| > from
| > | >> any
| > | >> sender if the subject line is interesting. That is why virus
scanning
| > on
| > | >> the
| > | >> POP3 accounts is so important.
| > | >> I can see the posts from people who have had problems with e-mail
| > | >> scanning,
| > | >> but the problems mainly come from using Norton's or McAfee's. I
think
| > it
| > | >> properly set up as Leythos and I have both done, with the correct
| > | >> software,
| > | >> e-mail scanning is safe to use and causes less problems that OE and
| > | >> Outlook
| > | >> cause to themselves. And by the way archiving any e-mail for more
| > than
| > a
| > | >> few
| > | >> days in any folder in OE is dangerous. Even the folders you create.
| > That
| > | >> is
| > | >> why I back up OE every 24 hours. The backup file, located on my D
| > drive,
| > | >> is
| > | >> safe from any problems in OE and XP. The OE freebie back up program
| > works
| > | >> well, and so far has never corrupted any e-mail or folder. I have
| > | >> recovered
| > | >> e-mail over a year old without a problem.
| > | >>
| > | >> "Nobody is likely to disagree that the OE system can be broken,
| > however
| > I
| > | >> suspect that people are "Agreeing" because it's easier than arguing
| >
"
| > | >> Funny thing, when I was the boss who signed their paychecks, they
| > still
| > | >> argued with me every day. Between all 10 of them, the short timer
has
| > | >> been
| > | >> there 12 years, and the 1st guy I hired has now been there for 24
| > years.
| > | >> But
| > | >> they now own the business, and they have real world experience
| > totaled
| > | >> between all of them in excess of 100 years. I trusted them all for
| > years,
| > | >> they are well trained on both hardware and software and we all
| > learned
| > | >> together. In how many companies does the owner help install
| > $750,000
| > | >> systems for a week and make service calls to the clients office
when
| > all
| > | >> the
| > | >> tech are booked up. I did and would still be doing it if my health
| > hadn't
| > | >> crashed.
| > | >>
| > | >> I may be out of the business, but the 10 of them made a lot of
money
| > for
| > | >> me,
| > | >> and recalls to repair the same problem was always free. We would
have
| > | >> never
| > | >> made the money we did if we spent too much time going back time
after
| > | >> time.
| > | >> Also the business would never have kept the doors open if we hadn't
| > been
| > | >> good at what we did. Installing hardware and software for use in
the
| > | >> aircraft industry, is not simple work, getting hardware from
| > different
| > | >> configurations to work together is bad enough, but adding all of
the
| > | >> different configurations of software and securing the systems is
very
| > | >> hard
| > | >> today. But not as hard as it was 25+ years ago, when nearly all
| > computers
| > | >> were so proprietary in the hardware and software they used, that
| > getting
| > | >> it
| > | >> all to "work together" was a nightmare, and security was not as big
| > an
| > | >> issue
| > | >> then. I remember shelling out 3 grand for an external Sony CDR
| > burner,
| > | >> and
| > | >> the CDR's cost 50 buck apiece. Shelling out nearly 4 grand apiece
for
| > 5
| > | >> laptops using Win '95 and purchasing extra HD's for each, so we
| > could
| > | >> install and use NT and Win 3.x also.
| > | >>
| > | >> "old' devildog
| > | >> -- Semper Fi --
| > | >>
| > | >> Don't take life too seriously; No one gets out alive.
| > | >> He who dies with the most toys is none the less, dead.
| > | >> Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.
| > | >> ------------------------------
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >> | > | >> |
| > | >> | ""old" devildog" <teyoungATmchsiDOTcom> wrote in message
| > | >> | | > | >> | > Wrong Frank.
| > | >> | > And the junk I just read from you is just that, junk. You need
to
| > | >> find
| > | >> out
| > | >> | > the way this software really works before condemning it.
| > | >> | > I have always used the e-mail scan in SystemSuite. It has never
| > | >> caused a
| > | >> | > problem. It does not scan by proxy server. It scans by
directing
| > the
| > | >> | > e-mail
| > | >> | > to a temp file on the computer, does a virus scan on the body
as
| > well
| > | >> as
| > | >> | > any
| > | >> | > attachments, it then OE or Outlook uploads the e-mail from this
| > temp
| > | >> file.
| > | >> | > Yes it redirects it but not to a web site to get lost.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | That IS a proxy. Email scanning Proxy servers generally run on
your
| > own
| > | >> | machine - "Localhost" or 127.0.0.1
| > | >> |
| > | >> | A "Proxy" does not have to be a "Website"
| > | >> |
| > | >> | Please provide a link to this information you are quoting.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | > The only problems with OE folders I have ever had, has been
| > caused
| > | >> by
| > | >> OE
| > | >> | > and the constant urge to compact. When will MS learn that over
| > | >> compaction
| > | >> | > leads to corruption. MS is the biggest creator problem with
their
| > own
| > | >> | > software
| > | >> |
| > | >> | And that is optional - you can do it manually, but in fact my own
| > | >> experience
| > | >> | indicates that OE compaction works fine until interfered with by
| > some
| > | >> | external program. You cannot "Over compact" email folders, they
are
| > not
| > | >> | "Compressed" but simply cleaned up to remove obsolete entries. I
| > would
| > | >> agree
| > | >> | that manual is best but the problems (if any) with compaction
seem
| > | >> quite
| > | >> | clearly to be realted to having too many other things going on at
| > the
| > | >> same
| > | >> | time, particularly with "Aggressive" software like Antivirus and
| > | >> especially
| > | >> | if it tries to access the message stores themselves.
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | > I do not know how Norton's or McAfee's does it. I haven't used
| > | >> Norton's
| > | >> | > ever
| > | >> | > ( always heard too many bad things about it), and it has been
'96
| > | >> since
| > | >> I
| > | >> | > used McAfee. Maybe you need to go to tech support at V-Com.
They
| > will
| > | >> | > explain the scanning of incoming e-mail as the Micro-Trend
engine
| > | >> they
| > | >> use
| > | >> | > does.
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | The versions I am familiar with use a Proxy on the local
| > machine....
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | > I spoke to 10 software and hardware techs about OE and Outlook.
| > They
| > | >> | > repair
| > | >> | > hardware and software everyday, it is what they do. They agree
| > with
| > | >> me
| > | >> | > that
| > | >> | > OE and Outlook's biggest enemy is themselves, the compaction by
| > | >> default
| > | >> | > problem, and the inherent problems with the proprietary and
| > faulty,
| > | >> file
| > | >> | > system used by both for the folders.
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | Nobody is likely to disagree that the OE system can be broken,
| > however
| > | >> I
| > | >> | suspect that people are "Agreeing" because it's easier than
arguing
| >
| > | >> |
| > | >> | There is nothing "Wrong" with the system per-se, but it is
| > vulnerable
| > | >> to
| > | >> | interference from outside.
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | > Learn Frank, I still do even at my age I am 60 (with over 30+
| > year
| > of
| > | >> | > software and hardware repair). That is why I contacted customer
| > | >> support
| > | >> at
| > | >> | > V-Com to find out how the e-mail scanning worked. I am right,
| > your
| > | >> | > description of how it is done by the Trend-Micro engine is
very
| > | >> wrong.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | There are several factors involved. Email "Scanning" as it is
often
| > | >> called
| > | >> | is probably a misnomer... email "Filtering" might be better, this
| > is
| > | >> the
| > | >> | situation where OE passes the request for mail via a "Proxy", or
as
| > you
| > | >> | described it a "Temporary File" and then (As you also described
it)
| > OE
| > | >> reads
| > | >> | the temporary file. The problem seems to come into it when the AV
| > | >> software
| > | >> | detects a virus and tries to either yank it out of the stream
| > | >> immediately
| > | >> or
| > | >> | puts up some kind of warning. OE does not seem to like that
| > behaviour.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | A secondary problem is when something tries to open or examine
the
| > .dbx
| > | >> | files while OE itself is trying to use them. It is generally
| > pointless
| > | >> | looking for viral code in these files anyway since whatever is in
| > there
| > | >> is
| > | >> | not going to be executed, but the act of doing so can lock OE out
| > and
| > | >> cause
| > | >> | the corruption.
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | > Before you tell me or Leythos how the "e-mail" is scanned and
how
| > it
| > | >> | > damages
| > | >> | > the folders, check out how it is really done by each the
| > anti-virus
| > | >> | > companies. Learn something and form your own opinion based on
| > real
| > | >> | > knowledge, obtained from the source, rather that the same
| > information
| > | >> MS
| > | >> | > has
| > | >> | > been giving out for more years than anyone wants to remember.
I
| > | >> think
| > | >> the
| > | >> | > stand you are taking, comes from MS as a way to explain the
| > faults
| > | >> | > inherent
| > | >> | > in the OE and Outlook software. It is much easier to blame
| > something
| > | >> else
| > | >> | > for your problems than to fix the mess you made yourself.
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >> | Sometimes one's own advice is useful too.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | You have to remember that MVPs have to answer the same questions
| > over
| > | >> and
| > | >> | over again, and writing a white paper every time is not feasible.
| > | >> Sometimes
| > | >> | too much data causes confusion so one tries to keep explanations
| > | >> | "Simplified". People arrive here looking for a solution to their
| > | >> specific
| > | >> | problem mostly, not a training course.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | Frank's opinion is doubtless like mine, based upong real life
| > | >> experiences
| > | >> | and not what we are "Told to say" by anyone, including Microsoft.
| > | >> Nobody
| > | >> | minds being corrected, no single person can hope to know
everything
| > | >> about
| > | >> | everything, but your reference to email getting lost at some
| > "Website"
| > | >> | clearly indicates that you should follow your own advice and
learn
| > how
| > | >> | things work.
| > | >> |
| > | >> | Charlie
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >>
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| >
| >
|
|
