Computer Is Running Very Slow Resources At 99%

[Alias]

You misunderstand how it works - the email is scanned in the POP session
between the computer and the ISP, it's not scanned in the Outlook
message file on the workstation. No-one scans the message file that
outlook uses, same with the exchange store files, you scan the SESSION
(port traffic) between your application pulling on POP and the ISP
server - the virus scanner sits between the two and has nothing to do
with the Outlook Message File on your computer.

You should really understand before you start ranting.

I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the experts
can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.

Alias

 

[Leythos]

I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the experts
can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.

I've never been in that group, don't care if you cross-post it, and
don't expect any issues with my direct statement from anyone that has a
clue.

Now, just to make sure, we're talking about AV scanners that scan the
POP and SMTP sessions inbound and outbound for malware/malicious content
- just because you don't know the difference between scanning a session
and scanning a file it's not going to change my statement.

AV scanners that scan the mail sessions are not going to corrupt the
Outlook Express file on your drive.

 

[Leythos]

I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you?

Why are you so confrontational? If you don't have a clue, maybe you
should research a little before you jump on those that do have a clue.

You do understand that scanning a session, port traffic, for content has
nothing to do with the file used by Outlook Express? Do you or don't you
understand that?

If the application acts as a proxy to filter content according to the
standards for POP/SMTP, the only thing that can trash the outlook FILE
is outlook itself.

If you have real-time AV scanning, and you allow it to scan the actual
FILE that outlook stores it's information in then you can have issues,
but nothing I stated indicated that you should scan the FILE that
outlook uses.

In case you don't understand other things - you also make exceptions for
the Exchange Store and other items for exchange, for SQL database files,
for some AV files where they download/expand Zip files, etc....

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE]

I've never been in that group, don't care if you cross-post it, and
don't expect any issues with my direct statement from anyone that has
a clue.

Now, just to make sure, we're talking about AV scanners that scan the
POP and SMTP sessions inbound and outbound for malware/malicious
content - just because you don't know the difference between scanning
a session and scanning a file it's not going to change my statement.

AV scanners that scan the mail sessions are not going to corrupt the
Outlook Express file on your drive.

Theoretically you are correct. However, both Norton and McAfee (especially
McAfee) have been known to wipe entire folders in OE. Don't know how they
manage that, but they do.

Any anti-virus, in order to scan the email, places a proxy between the mail
program and leaving the computer. So does an anti-spam program. The
incoming mail goes to that proxy and gets scanned before it is delivered to
the mail program In either case this delay is often interpreted by the mail
program as a lost connection and it stops the receive function with an error
message.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/default.aspx
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/

 

[pcbutts1]

Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected by
most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does this.
Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac included. We
tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its variants.
The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from the
server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its weekly scans
or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.

--


The best live web video on the internet http://www.seedsv.com/webdemo.htm
NEW Embedded system W/Linux. We now sell DVR cards.
See it all at http://www.seedsv.com/products.htm
Sharpvision simply the best http://www.seedsv.com

 

[Z]

Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected by
most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does this.

Perhaps the user had the real-time component disabled, or the e-mail
component disabled or improperly configured or maybe the malware was
unknown when it was first d/l-ed from the POP server into the Inbox but
found later, after definitions had been updated.

 

[Leythos]

Then explain why Norton will quarantine the whole inbox in OE, Netscape
mail, Eudora, and it does this on Mac's also and Mac's are not effected by
most windows viruses. Norton is the only AV that I have seen that does this.
Norton reps could not fix this on any of our 8000 systems Mac included. We
tracked it down to certain viruses like the blaster worm and its variants.
The only work around, not fix, is to manually delete the virus from the
server first and configure Norton to not scan dbx files in its weekly scans
or auto protect. That leaves emails completely unprotected.

You didn't use the software properly if you had that problem. I have
been using Norton and Symantec since they were out on the market, have
more than 1000+ nodes using it, and the only time we have any issues is
when the exclusions are not properly setup, when some idiot installs a
service that uses files and doesn't properly check the AV settings or
specifics vs his software.

As for outlook, why would you scan the outlook file? Why would not just
scan the SMTP and POP sessions (or IMAP) for bad things so that they are
removed without impact to the files.

The only time I've seen Norton screw up a INBOX is when it was scanning
the files themselves instead of the sessions (smtp/pop) - if you don't
set it up properly then you can't really complain.

 

[Leythos]

I am not an expert. You don't have the balls to state this on
microsoft.public.windows.inetexplorer.ie6_outlookexpress, do you? That's
where the experts are and that's where it is on topic and where the experts
can explain why scanning for viruses in OE is not a good idea. Can you do
it? I crossposted this message there for your convenience.

Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away from
the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore) there has
been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to proxy and
time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with Network speed and
system speed), and a mention that it does happen.

So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows normal
methods for installing quality AV software and databases are excluded
and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very unlikely to have
any issues.

 

[Jack Gillis]

You didn't use the software properly if you had that problem. I have
been using Norton and Symantec since they were out on the market, have
more than 1000+ nodes using it, and the only time we have any issues is
when the exclusions are not properly setup, when some idiot installs a
service that uses files and doesn't properly check the AV settings or
specifics vs his software.

As for outlook, why would you scan the outlook file? Why would not just
scan the SMTP and POP sessions (or IMAP) for bad things so that they are
removed without impact to the files.

The only time I've seen Norton screw up a INBOX is when it was scanning
the files themselves instead of the sessions (smtp/pop) - if you don't
set it up properly then you can't really complain.

--

Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have *.dbx in my
exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing emails check for
scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?

I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
sessions. What am I missing.

Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.

 

[Leythos]

Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have *.dbx in my
exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing emails check for
scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?

I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
sessions. What am I missing.

Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.

I don't have 2002 anymore, but if you look at options, it should have
email settings. If you see the little pop-up in the lower right when you
SEND email, it's scanning outbound and that should also mean it's
scanning inbound via session, not file on your drive.

 

[Alias]

Well, I've been installing servers all day, more than 8 hours away from
the group - and other than butts (who no one believes anymore) there has
been only one reply indicating a possible problem (due to proxy and
time-out, not corruption, and that's got to do with Network speed and
system speed), and a mention that it does happen.

So, Alias, while I don't doubt that it happens, if one follows normal
methods for installing quality AV software and databases are excluded
and real-time session scanning is enabled, you are very unlikely to have
any issues.

I've never gotten a virus or any other nasty from email, using OE so why
should I add yet another thing to do? I have my filters set up so that most
of the spam goes right into either the deleted items or the Inbox folder.

Alias

 

[Jack Gillis]

I don't have 2002 anymore, but if you look at options, it should have
email settings. If you see the little pop-up in the lower right when you
SEND email, it's scanning outbound and that should also mean it's
scanning inbound via session, not file on your drive.

--

Thank you.

Ah! Then the exclusions just apply to the file scans?

 

[Leythos]

I've never gotten a virus or any other nasty from email, using OE so why
should I add yet another thing to do? I have my filters set up so that most
of the spam goes right into either the deleted items or the Inbox folder.

Which has nothing to do with protecting your system against a virus -
just because you put them (most of the time) in your deleted items
folder does not mean that you don't expose your system to exploits.

If you want to secure your email, you need to filter it of malicious
content.

 

[Leythos]

Ah! Then the exclusions just apply to the file scans?

Yes, you don't want to scan files that are database type files in
general. If you go to Symantec's support site you can query for how to
configure your product for use with Outlook Express.

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE]

Add me to the confused list. I am using Norton AV 2002 and have
*.dbx in my exclusions and also have both incoming and outgoing
emails check for scanning. I this a reaonably correct configuration?

I can find nowhere in the NAV Options setup to scan the SMTP and POP
sessions. What am I missing.

Thank you for any thoughts you might have for this mixed up user.

Turn off email scanning in your anti-virus. It provides no added
protection.

The Other E-Mail Threat: File Corruption in Outlook Express
Published: November 18, 2004
By Tom Koch
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/community/columns/filecorruption.mspx

Email scanning slows down Sending and Receiving, sometimes enough that OE
times out. Since some of the received messages have large (often virus)
attachments, which exasperates the problem.
Some Comcast users have found it necessary to totally uninstall Norton and
switch to the free AVG with mail scanning off. Norton invented email
scanning and here's what they say:

"Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses
that
are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
the most recent virus definitions."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...6d4e006aaa94/4ba5fc8ef939c44c88256c7500723cf0

"...your computer is protected if Auto-Protect is enabled. Auto-Protect
scans any incoming files, including email attachments, when the files are
saved to your hard drive."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/nav.nsf/docid/2001100907323806

"NAV provides multiple layers of protection. Email scanning is just one of
those layers. Even if you are not running Email Scanning, your computer is
protected against viruses that are distributed as email attachments by NAV
Auto-Protect. Auto-Protect will scan any incoming files, including email
attachments, as they are saved to your hard drive. To make sure that
Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep Auto-Protect enabled
and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have the most recent virus
definitions."
http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPOR...85256edd00478dbd?OpenDocument&src=bar_sch_nam

See also
http://help.expedient.com/mailnews/norton_antivirus.shtml

So Symantec used to say this often and clearly. The newer stuff doesn't
have the statement included as it was considered an embarrassment. If you
know anyone who programs for Norton try to get them to talk about it.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/default.aspx
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/

 

[Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE]

Which has nothing to do with protecting your system against a virus -
just because you put them (most of the time) in your deleted items
folder does not mean that you don't expose your system to exploits.

If you want to secure your email, you need to filter it of malicious
content.

Scanning email does absolutely nothing to protect your system. Nothing at
all. If you have the AV running in the background it will prevent you from
opening or saving any virus attachment (if it's any good).

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/security/protect/default.aspx
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/

 

[pcbutts1]

Your answers show just how limited your experience is and your knowledge
level (wipe a system to remove spyware) is. SAV Corp version 10 is what is
currently being used. Symantec detects the virus inbound, it does not know
how to handle it so it grabs the whole inbox and quarantines it. It still
does not remove the virus from the server. Norton sent a Rep out because
they did not believe us. This happens on Macs, in OE, Netscape, and Eudora.
The only work around is to exclude dbx files from the scans or disable
Norton, restore the inbox from quarantine, download all the messages from
the server, manually delete the virus, re-enable Norton. We chose the
disable Norton method because we need our email protected. Symantec could
not fix this issue. This does not happen with Outlook. We opted to upgrade
our email servers and use Sendmail http://www.sendmail.com/. Leythos because
you have never seen a problem does not mean it does not exist.

--


The best live web video on the internet http://www.seedsv.com/webdemo.htm
NEW Embedded system W/Linux. We now sell DVR cards.
See it all at http://www.seedsv.com/products.htm
Sharpvision simply the best http://www.seedsv.com

 

[Leythos]

Scanning email does absolutely nothing to protect your system. Nothing at
all. If you have the AV running in the background it will prevent you from
opening or saving any virus attachment (if it's any good).

Tell that to people that run Exchange or other email servers. I run
about 40 Exchange servers, we use mostly Symantec Mail Security to scan
the inbound and outbound sessions, never lost an email, never corrupted
the message store, never let anything malicious into the system because
of the scanning of the session and being able to remove content before
it's put in the store.

Same with my POP accounts that I use for Usenet, never, not in all the
years I've been using it, found a single problem with session scanning,
nor have anyone I know and anyone that I know knows. Again, I'm not
saying that it can't corrupt the file, but if you don't scan the Outlook
files you are very unlikely to have any issues.

I never want it to reach my drives before it gets detected.

 

[Leythos]

Your answers show just how limited your experience is and your knowledge
level (wipe a system to remove spyware) is. SAV Corp version 10 is what is
currently being used. Symantec detects the virus inbound, it does not know
how to handle it so it grabs the whole inbox and quarantines it.

Sorry, I've got more than 1000 nodes with Symantec Corporate Edition
with Groupware for Exchange and never seen a single problem on any of
them. In addition to that, we have about 200 users with just POP/SMTP
connections and none of them experience what you describe either - and
they have viruses removed in the POP session.

It still
does not remove the virus from the server.

How the heck would a scanner running on YOUR workstation remove a virus
from the mail server not protected by the AV product - answer, it can't.

If you are not running an exchange (or other email server) aware AV
product on the server you're a fool.

Norton sent a Rep out because
they did not believe us. This happens on Macs, in OE, Netscape, and Eudora.
The only work around is to exclude dbx files from the scans or disable
Norton, restore the inbox from quarantine, download all the messages from
the server, manually delete the virus, re-enable Norton. We chose the
disable Norton method because we need our email protected. Symantec could
not fix this issue. This does not happen with Outlook. We opted to upgrade
our email servers and use Sendmail http://www.sendmail.com/.

Leythos because you have never seen a problem does not mean it does not exist.

I agree, first time I've agreed with you, but, because you've
experienced a problem, it doesn't mean that everyone running your
configuration will experience it - as we don't.

So, no you have a clear understanding - some people are impacted, some
are not, in MY experience MOST ARE NOT impacted by using Symantec or
Norton SMTP/POP (or Exchange) session scanning.

 

[Bruce Hagen]

Tell that to people that run Exchange or other email servers. I run
about 40 Exchange servers, we use mostly Symantec Mail Security to scan
the inbound and outbound sessions, never lost an email, never corrupted
the message store, never let anything malicious into the system because
of the scanning of the session and being able to remove content before
it's put in the store.

Same with my POP accounts that I use for Usenet, never, not in all the
years I've been using it, found a single problem with session scanning,
nor have anyone I know and anyone that I know knows. Again, I'm not
saying that it can't corrupt the file, but if you don't scan the Outlook
files you are very unlikely to have any issues.

I never want it to reach my drives before it gets detected.

We get complaints about lost mail and error messages in the OE newsgroups
all the time and the solution is to disable e-mail scanning.

This is from Symantec, but applies to all A/V programs:

From:
http://snipurl.com/bmf6

Is my computer still protected against viruses if I disable Email Scanning?

Disabling Email Scanning does not leave you unprotected against viruses that
are distributed as email attachments. Norton AntiVirus Auto-Protect scans
incoming files as they are saved to your hard drive, including email and
email attachments. Email Scanning is just another layer on top of this. To
make sure that Auto-Protect is providing the maximum protection, keep
Auto-Protect enabled and run LiveUpdate regularly to ensure that you have
the most recent virus definitions.

Visit this group more often.