Comodo Personal Firewall

[David]

"David" enlightened us in a message:



WOW, that's what I always thought!
It looks like WIN98SE is still supported, but that the Comodo support has to
send you a special file or program.
Still no download option for a non XP version? Is there a
WIN98(SE)/WINME/WIN95/WINNT version?

If you have to use programs like Filemonitor and Ethereal to really know if
an uninstall works and how much phone home behaviour a program has, well,
that are not my favourites programs ;-).
But for serious testing you have to.
I saved your message for future Comodo questions; this isn't their promo
stuff.

Add to the above that in their instructions you are supposed to have a
live internet connection during the install. If I am installing a
firewall to protect my machine I am certainly not going to expose
myself to an unprotected internet connection no matter what program I
am intending to install. Perhaps that is why it did not want to
install.

My tracking is done with RemoveIt95 which is off-topic in this group.
I just wish someone would write a similar program. I'd even pay for it
if it had all the features and didn't fall over just because I'd
accessed the LAN. Total Uninstall is good but does not do all that
RemoveIt does.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

It will be interesting to see how Comodo follows up in this forum to
your post.

Comodo did send me a file, with instructions to replace an existing file
of the same name, plus a new unlock code. However, I couln't even get
the unpacker to run on my Win ME box. My request for further assistance
went unanswered.

It seemed that things were getting too convoluted and also that there
were (and are) too many potential "gotchas" in the process. Having to go
on line during an installation is a super red flag to me.

Hopefully, Comodo will make these processes smoother, simpler, and
friendlier as development progresses.
....

My tracking is done with RemoveIt95 which is off-topic in this group.
I just wish someone would write a similar program. I'd even pay for it
if it had all the features and didn't fall over just because I'd
accessed the LAN. Total Uninstall is good but does not do all that
RemoveIt does.

Thanks, David. You've provided more information than anyone else about
the installation. You have my gratitude for doing some heavy lifting
with Windows 9x.

One strangness with this program is that people have had such different
experiences just with the company's presence. For example, I did receive
a personal reply, and I did not receive any spam whatsoever. My sense is
that we've been involved with two conflicting web sites.

I disagree that your discussion of commercial installation tracking
software is off-topic in this forum. In fact, I'm thinking that we
should make this a new thread by itself. Here's my reasoning.

Let's face it: a lot of software, whether free or paid, is irresponsibly
crafted, and does not uphold the traditions of engineering discipline.
Many programs that are mentioned in this forum will, in fact, damage the
users' installation in some way. Just in testing metronome programs, for
example, I found that a couple of the programs had installed entire
coding systems (one from Borland), themselves no longer supported by
their vendors, that have proved to be almost impossible to remove. These
underlying systems, themselves, had made changes to my OS. Did the
freeware coder mention this in his documentation? (Guess.)

Many people do good work at constructing an installation. But how many
coders do as good a job as ensuring a total un-installation? This is the
main reason why I won't ever install trialware. I think, though, that
the _average_ commercial product will at least spend the sheckles to use
a product like InstallShield in order to help the user get their product
off the system. Since InstallShield costs money, it's logical to assume
that most freeware won't come with it. So, we're more on our own in
restoring our systems.

With this fact in mind, it is extremely important for us to protect
ourselves with the best and most robust uninstallers/install trackers.
As I've mentioned, the need for this protection is even greater when
dealing with unknown freeware than it is with commercial programs.

In the past, I've tried Total Uninstall (briefly). I've also used two
versions of Norton Systemworks, and the final version of System Suite
that came from OnTrack (not V-Com, who have bought the name). I've
gravitated to System Mechanic v3; then System Mechanic v5, from Iolo.
These are now all commercial products.

Iolo has changed their uninstall provisions substantially between the
two versions. v3 uses the typical install tracker method. V5 has
abandoned installation tracking, and is instead provided with a much
more extensive set of removal tools. I have just installed this on a
"new" machine, and discussed it briefly with Iolo. I like the way that
the overall product has continued development. I've had certain problems
with the tracker/uninstall method in the past. After all, there may be
conflicting underlying changes between the time when the program was
installed and the time when it was removed, which means that reversing
the original registry changes may, in fact, mess up the system.
Therefore, I feel that, perhaps, Iolo is on to something significant in
helping users to do a truly benign removal.

Those are my thoughts about uninstall tools.

This forum is frought with terse submissions such as:
"Mega-Blug www.megablug.com"

Some people feel that they're doing the rest of us a great service by
enriching our lives this way. (Requests for clarification [like, dude:
what does this program do?] will often be ignored or answered angrily
with some self-justified instruction that it's our responsiblity to get
further information ourselves.)
Following up without adequate information can be dangerous.

What do you think?

Richard

 

[David]

[...]

Thanks, David. You've provided more information than anyone else about
the installation. You have my gratitude for doing some heavy lifting
with Windows 9x.

One strangness with this program is that people have had such different
experiences just with the company's presence. For example, I did receive
a personal reply, and I did not receive any spam whatsoever. My sense is
that we've been involved with two conflicting web sites.

I disagree that your discussion of commercial installation tracking
software is off-topic in this forum. In fact, I'm thinking that we
should make this a new thread by itself. Here's my reasoning.

I would like to know more about installation tracking software
(commercial or not) however I'm sure that the purists would have
conniptions over any mention in this group. Do you have suggestions
for a more appropriate venue?

Let's face it: a lot of software, whether free or paid, is irresponsibly
crafted, and does not uphold the traditions of engineering discipline.
Many programs that are mentioned in this forum will, in fact, damage the
users' installation in some way. Just in testing metronome programs, for
example, I found that a couple of the programs had installed entire
coding systems (one from Borland), themselves no longer supported by
their vendors, that have proved to be almost impossible to remove. These
underlying systems, themselves, had made changes to my OS. Did the
freeware coder mention this in his documentation? (Guess.)

I don't have to guess.

Many people do good work at constructing an installation. But how many
coders do as good a job as ensuring a total un-installation? This is the
main reason why I won't ever install trialware. I think, though, that
the _average_ commercial product will at least spend the sheckles to use
a product like InstallShield in order to help the user get their product
off the system. Since InstallShield costs money, it's logical to assume
that most freeware won't come with it. So, we're more on our own in
restoring our systems.

I tracked an installation of Open(Sun?) Office a couple of years back.
After using its own uninstaller I found some 12 MB of files left on my
system. I did advise the coders of the discrepany and apparently they
have been far more careful since. They had the good grace to admit
their error and apologise.

With this fact in mind, it is extremely important for us to protect
ourselves with the best and most robust uninstallers/install trackers.
As I've mentioned, the need for this protection is even greater when
dealing with unknown freeware than it is with commercial programs.

In the past, I've tried Total Uninstall (briefly). I've also used two
versions of Norton Systemworks, and the final version of System Suite
that came from OnTrack (not V-Com, who have bought the name). I've
gravitated to System Mechanic v3; then System Mechanic v5, from Iolo.
These are now all commercial products.

Iolo has changed their uninstall provisions substantially between the
two versions. v3 uses the typical install tracker method. V5 has
abandoned installation tracking, and is instead provided with a much
more extensive set of removal tools. I have just installed this on a
"new" machine, and discussed it briefly with Iolo. I like the way that
the overall product has continued development. I've had certain problems
with the tracker/uninstall method in the past. After all, there may be
conflicting underlying changes between the time when the program was
installed and the time when it was removed, which means that reversing
the original registry changes may, in fact, mess up the system.
Therefore, I feel that, perhaps, Iolo is on to something significant in
helping users to do a truly benign removal.

Those are my thoughts about uninstall tools.

These are some pointers I will follow up. Thanks.

This forum is frought with terse submissions such as:
"Mega-Blug www.megablug.com"

Some people feel that they're doing the rest of us a great service by
enriching our lives this way. (Requests for clarification [like, dude:
what does this program do?] will often be ignored or answered angrily
with some self-justified instruction that it's our responsiblity to get
further information ourselves.)
Following up without adequate information can be dangerous.

What do you think?

Richard

Curiousity killed the cat but information saved its life.

If I need to spend money to safeguard my system against bad software I
will do so even though my funds are limited. That is why, if I have a
bad experience, I will likely be moved to complain publicly although I
will often complain privately first to allow some remedial action to
take place if it is going to happen.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

I would like to know more about installation tracking software
(commercial or not) however I'm sure that the purists would have
conniptions over any mention in this group. Do you have suggestions
for a more appropriate venue?

No. I don't. My position is that people who try freeware need protection
even more than buyers of commercial software. The reason is pretty
simple: many people who craft free software are non-professinal
hobbyists who don't have the discipline of an engineering background.
Therefore, I feel that it's very fair, very important, in fact, to
discuss self-protection against unknown problems right here in this
venue, whether these self-protection routines are free or payware. Let's
say that limiting this subject of paid protection to freeware makes as
much sense as vowing to only use software that runs on free computers.

The truth is that I'm only aware of one free uninstall program: and
guess what? It's no longer free! So if we're going to have any uninstall
protection, it's going to cost money! And that's that.

Hopefully, people can add a lot more about uninstall programs to what
I'm writing. I'll start.

Norton Systemworks:
For me, this was a bloated horror, two versions of which have degraded
the performance of two of my systems. I believe that it's a good tool
for people who work in a corporate setting, however.

System Suite:
I'm avoiding commenting in public about the present state of this
program. I don't want to get sued.

Total Uninstall:
Interesting. A number of people seem to like this. I haven't tried it
adequately because it's on my box along with System Suite. I do not
recommend the use of two install/uninstall programs simultaneously. I've
read that this program is no longer freeware.

System Mechanic v3:
I haven't tried the uninstaller for the same reason: I've already got a
large base of tracked installations on this machine with System Suite.

All the above use install trackers to provide the information base for
the mating uninstaller.

System Mechanic v5:
Uses extensive uninstall options instead of tracked installations. I
think that one of these methods works closely with uninstall data
recorded under Windows and InstallShield. I've installed this on a "new"
computer and I'll be testing it out as soon as posible.

The current version is v6. There are sometimes promotions with deep
rebates for people changing from other products. And there are more
uninstallers than I've mentioned or know about.

I tracked an installation of Open(Sun?) Office a couple of years back.
After using its own uninstaller I found some 12 MB of files left on my
system. I did advise the coders of the discrepany and apparently they
have been far more careful since. They had the good grace to admit
their error and apologise.

Open Office is a true community effort by people around the world. It's
not a Sun product, but Sun has given certain support that seems pretty
generous to me -- OO actually undercuts Sun's own Star Office, but I'd
point out that Star Office is an impressive value when compared with
Microsoft Office.

Just to clear something up: uninstallers do not remove program files.
They'll typically restore the state of the registry to the state it was
in beforehand. As I mentioned earlier, I feel that this can somtimes
cause additional problems. You'll have to go and remove all the leftover
files yourself. This is normal.

Curiousity killed the cat but information saved its life.

If I need to spend money to safeguard my system against bad software I
will do so even though my funds are limited. That is why, if I have a
bad experience, I will likely be moved to complain publicly although I
will often complain privately first to allow some remedial action to
take place if it is going to happen.

I can appreciate this. But people who supply freeware often don't have
the resources to adequately maintain their products. I think that in
return for the free use of a coders labors, we have an obligation to
suggest changes and improvements. This way, we can give back.

Sometimes, too, it's fine to use free programs that are rough around the
edges or in a beta state, as long as their basic functionality is intact
and they're harmless.

It'll be interesting to see how Comodo develops. The various glitches
and wierdness may not be malicious, but simply the growing pains of an
operation that's becoming public for the first time.

I hope that this helps.

Richard

 

[earlybird]

David wrote :

Richard wrote :

I disagree that your discussion of commercial installation tracking
software is off-topic in this forum. In fact, I'm thinking that we
should make this a new thread by itself. Here's my reasoning.

it is off-topic and there are a few people writing in this newsgroup who
insists on this freeware item.
I agree with you that a new thread would be a very good thing. You have a
very good point by mentioning the uninstall procedure which is often more
complicated then deleting one or two programs in a directory. I love those
"old" programs; unzip this program in whatever directory and click on it and
the program runs and works. No registry inserts or whatever.

With this fact in mind, it is extremely important for us to protect
ourselves with the best and most robust uninstallers/install trackers.
As I've mentioned, the need for this protection is even greater when
dealing with unknown freeware than it is with commercial programs.

please start a new thread; you already wrote a very good reasoning intro for
this problem.
There is a newsgroup comp.security.misc which good be an alternative, but I
hope this newsgroup accepts this item.
If it was my comment I already copied most of this thoughts in a new thread.

 

[David]

No. I don't. My position is that people who try freeware need protection
even more than buyers of commercial software. The reason is pretty
simple: many people who craft free software are non-professinal
hobbyists who don't have the discipline of an engineering background.
Therefore, I feel that it's very fair, very important, in fact, to
discuss self-protection against unknown problems right here in this
venue, whether these self-protection routines are free or payware. Let's
say that limiting this subject of paid protection to freeware makes as
much sense as vowing to only use software that runs on free computers.

I couldn't agree more. Is there anyone else who agrees?

The truth is that I'm only aware of one free uninstall program: and
guess what? It's no longer free! So if we're going to have any uninstall
protection, it's going to cost money! And that's that.

Hopefully, people can add a lot more about uninstall programs to what
I'm writing. I'll start.

Norton Systemworks:
For me, this was a bloated horror, two versions of which have degraded
the performance of two of my systems. I believe that it's a good tool
for people who work in a corporate setting, however.

Ever since Peter Norton left the company it has been going downhill in
my opinion.

System Suite:
I'm avoiding commenting in public about the present state of this
program. I don't want to get sued.

I've never tried it.

Total Uninstall:
Interesting. A number of people seem to like this. I haven't tried it
adequately because it's on my box along with System Suite. I do not
recommend the use of two install/uninstall programs simultaneously. I've
read that this program is no longer freeware.

If using two, as I do occasionally for testing purposes, start your
main tracker, then the other one. Do the install, Close the other one
then your main tracker. Uninstall using the program under test, or
compare the install reports, and use your main tracker to clear up any
leftovers and peruse the report to eliminate bits and pieces belonging
to the other tracker.

System Mechanic v3:
I haven't tried the uninstaller for the same reason: I've already got a
large base of tracked installations on this machine with System Suite.

All the above use install trackers to provide the information base for
the mating uninstaller.

System Mechanic v5:
Uses extensive uninstall options instead of tracked installations. I
think that one of these methods works closely with uninstall data
recorded under Windows and InstallShield. I've installed this on a "new"
computer and I'll be testing it out as soon as posible.

The current version is v6. There are sometimes promotions with deep
rebates for people changing from other products. And there are more
uninstallers than I've mentioned or know about.


Open Office is a true community effort by people around the world. It's
not a Sun product, but Sun has given certain support that seems pretty
generous to me -- OO actually undercuts Sun's own Star Office, but I'd
point out that Star Office is an impressive value when compared with
Microsoft Office.

I was not sure if it was OOo or Sun that gave the problem. It was
several years ago.

Just to clear something up: uninstallers do not remove program files.
They'll typically restore the state of the registry to the state it was
in beforehand. As I mentioned earlier, I feel that this can somtimes
cause additional problems. You'll have to go and remove all the leftover
files yourself. This is normal.

RemoveIt95 allows the option of removing any file via the uninstaller.
You can add files to the removal process if you wish or deselect. You
do not have the option of deselecting the registry alterations
however.

I can appreciate this. But people who supply freeware often don't have
the resources to adequately maintain their products. I think that in
return for the free use of a coders labors, we have an obligation to
suggest changes and improvements. This way, we can give back.

Which is why I will normally complain or ask privately first. Comodo
did not even give me the courtesy of a reply to my complaint although
I was rather cheesed off at the SPAM and that probably showed through
in my mail to them.

Sometimes, too, it's fine to use free programs that are rough around the
edges or in a beta state, as long as their basic functionality is intact
and they're harmless.

It'll be interesting to see how Comodo develops. The various glitches
and wierdness may not be malicious, but simply the growing pains of an
operation that's becoming public for the first time.

I hope that this helps.

Richard

I would appreciate having more firewalls to select from. ZoneAlarm
Free objects to private LANs and Intenet Connection Sharing. Comodo
would not install, Net Veda Safety.Net has issues I will be discussing
in a separate thread. Others have trashed my system and interfered
with attempts to run normal programs.
--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"
E-mail: justdas at iinet dot net dot au

 

[BoB]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:58:23 -0800, Richard Steinfeld

[Big snip]

Hopefully, people can add a lot more about uninstall programs to what
I'm writing. I'll start.

Norton Systemworks:
For me, this was a bloated horror, two versions of which have degraded
the performance of two of my systems. I believe that it's a good tool
for people who work in a corporate setting, however.

System Suite:
I'm avoiding commenting in public about the present state of this
program. I don't want to get sued.

Total Uninstall:
Interesting. A number of people seem to like this. I haven't tried it
adequately because it's on my box along with System Suite. I do not
recommend the use of two install/uninstall programs simultaneously. I've
read that this program is no longer freeware.

System Mechanic v3:
I haven't tried the uninstaller for the same reason: I've already got a
large base of tracked installations on this machine with System Suite.

All the above use install trackers to provide the information base for
the mating uninstaller.

System Mechanic v5:
Uses extensive uninstall options instead of tracked installations. I
think that one of these methods works closely with uninstall data
recorded under Windows and InstallShield. I've installed this on a "new"
computer and I'll be testing it out as soon as posible.

The current version is v6. There are sometimes promotions with deep
rebates for people changing from other products. And there are more
uninstallers than I've mentioned or know about.

Hi Richard,

I've been wading through all these Comodo threads and noticed your
latest discussions.

I realized I needed a good uninstall program a few years ago and started
testing everything available. TU, at the time, did not prepare a
thorough record of changes made, so I settled on Uninstall Manager [UM].
I used UM inconjuction with InControl3 and liked what I got. I upgraded
through IC4 to IC5 since.

The procedure I have developed is a follows:

First, I setup UM under the programs's name and it backs up the registry
and four important files, win and system ini, autoexec.bat and
config.sys. Next I run my backup program, then setup IC5 which begins
the install and records all changes made to the system and registry.

My backup program updates its copies of C:\Program Files\Common Files
[60meg], the entire windows directory [420meg] and all files in Croot
[1meg]. File overwrites in these areas can be a real pain so the backups
make any restoration work much easier.

I next run the installed program and make some small confiuration change
to ensure all registry entries are known. I then have IC5 finish its
monitoring and prepare a record. I examine the IC5 record to see how bad
the impact was on my system. I'm not partial to a lot of new registry
entries, especially CLSIDs which cannot be identified later without a
record like IC5. If I feel excessive dlls have been added to Win\Sys or
excessive registry entries were made, I may use UM right then and
uninstall the program. It cannot be done later without a lot of
handwork.

If I'm happy with what was installed, then I test the program and see if
it is something I could use now or in the future. If I don't like how
the program operates or I have no need for what it does, I uninstall it
while UM is still available to assist me.

I have installed, and removed the vast majority of, over 1400 programs
since developing my 'system'. Examining programs is a hobby of mine.

I've never had a need to re-installed windows in my life and have used
Win3.11, Win95, Win98 and Win98SE. I think XP would make my hobby much
more difficult so I have no interest in that OS.

HTH someone who is serious about installing/uninstalling programs.

BoB

 

[Howard Schwartz]

I DO recommend using a second tracker, PC magazine's formerly free
InCtrl5, along with total uninstall. The latter tracks files that are
added or deleted. However, it does not track files that are overwritten
or changed (e.g., another version of a dll file, or a change in win.ini)
- except for changes to the registry data. inctrl5 will tell you if any
file has been overwritten by a file with the same name, and will track
internal changes to the usual setup files, e.g., autoexec.bat,
config.sys, win.ini, system,ini, progman.ini etc. etc.

The two together give a pretty complete picture of what an installation
may have done to your hard disk.

 

[Howard Schwartz]

I realized I needed a good uninstall program a few years ago and started
testing everything available. TU, at the time, did not prepare a
thorough record of changes made, so I settled on Uninstall Manager [UM].

When I googled Uninstall Manager, version 4.30 seems to NOT be freeware.
True the license is inexpensive - $14., but still not free.

 

[BoB]

I realized I needed a good uninstall program a few years ago and started
testing everything available. TU, at the time, did not prepare a
thorough record of changes made, so I settled on Uninstall Manager [UM].

When I googled Uninstall Manager, version 4.30 seems to NOT be freeware.
True the license is inexpensive - $14., but still not free.

Granted, the Comodo thread has wandered off topic. Comodo will
not even work on my Win98SE but I'm enjoying the side comments.
I have found several shareware programs that cannot be matched
by freeware IMHO, and have gotten many of my original leads for
excellent shareware from comments in ACF. I have no interest in
alt.comp.shareware, per se. UM is excellent and was fairly priced
when I found it and works so well that I'm still using v3.21.
The same can be said for my file manager, backup utility, and
news reader which are not freeware.

I'd have no objection if someone wants to add OT to the thread
but I think it has about exhausted itself.

BoB

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

please start a new thread; you already wrote a very good reasoning intro for
this problem.
There is a newsgroup comp.security.misc which good be an alternative, but I
hope this newsgroup accepts this item.
If it was my comment I already copied most of this thoughts in a new thread.

Well, it's like this.
I'd start a new thread, except, truthfully, I'm in burnout now. I've
spent some time on this issue as well as the fact that I'm setting up
two "new" (used) computers for myself and my son. There's too much on my
plate. I started out on this quest by looking for security programs
mainly for my son's computer. I think that I'll coast for awhile with
Sygate (which I know), AVG for everyday virus protection, and Avast for
the occasional antivirus heavy lifting. I'd use Avast all the time,
except that it's resource load is too high for my comfort, and the
interface is too complicated for me to figure out. I'll have to hand
this ball over to someone else and return in lurk mode in a few days. I
appreciate all the comraderie along the way! Who knows, perhaps Comodo
will even emerge as our star firewall. Thanks everyone for joining in.

Richard

 

[earlybird]

Richard finally ended this thread; pfffff

that I'm setting up two "new" (used) computers for myself and my son.

always great; take your time.