Color Neutrality of black/white prints?

[Paul Furman]

BTW, is there somewhere on the Web I can go to find
information about inks and proprietary papers such as
you have included here

http://bermangraphics.com/press/wilhelm.htm

 

[Scott Glasgow]

http://bermangraphics.com/press/wilhelm.htm

Excellent! Just what I was looking for; very thorough explanation of the
principles involved. Thank you, Paul!

Net Snippets gets this one for sure... ;-)

Cheers,
Scott

 

[Colin D]

I have run into a small problem with producing black/white prints from
my inkjet printer, a Canon i9950 (same as i9900) when printing from
scans of older family photographs.

The scans are converted to grayscale in photoshop so there is no
suggestion of color shifts with the image, and when printed the results,
while not *exactly* neutral gray, are pretty close, bearing in mind the
printer is printing in three colors, but I have a client who considers
that the slightest shift from absolute neutral is unacceptable.

Short of going to a quad-black or equivalent printing system, I consider
the prints to be pretty good.

So, the question is, for those who do b/w prints from inkjets, how close
to neutral is close enough, and has anyone run into this objection from
a client, or even a family member?

Colin D.

OK, panic's off, people. Many thanks to you all for suggestions, tech
info etc, but she isn't gonna fly. I talked the guy into trying someone
else, who may have proper b/w printing capability - but it's now his
problem. Gotta say I'm relieved, I didn't fancy him accepting my
prints, and then having him complain after the job was done.

FWIW, Canon say that their dye inks are good for 25 - 30 years, with the
right care of the prints, and practically, I think that's good enough.
My daughter was looking through her boxes of 6x4's while we were in Hong
Kong recently, and the degradation of some of the images, particularly
those on Agfa paper, was horrifying. Whites gone dirty yellow, colors
faded, variable fading due to poor processing or washing, etc. The only
prints that were still good - and most of these were no more than 14
years old, which was when she moved to HK - were Fuji, and the Crystal
Archive prints looked as fresh as yesterday.

Since there's no washing problems or chemical contamination from inkjet
printers, and given today's dyes, it's a good bet that IJ prints will
outlast chemical prints, IMHO.

Thanks for the discussion.

Colin D.

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Hi Scott,

Most manufacturers will tell you is asked. The two paper types I
mention are the basic technologies in use. Truth be known, it is very
difficult to produce a paper that works for all inks and inkjet printers.

HP color inkjet printers, for instance, tend to work best with swellable
polymer inks while most Canon and Epson do best with Microporous papers.

There are some other technologies in the works that integrate the inkjet
special technologies throughout the paper fibre rather than just being
on the surface.

There are probably some web resources for determining best papers and
ink combinations, as determined by private users, but I don't know of
any off the top of my head. Epson, of course, offers charts showing
which papers of their own brand work best with which inks and printers.

Some manufacturer's will give suggestions or offer free or inexpensive
sample packages of their papers for testing purposes.

As a general rule, Epson and Canon inks (both dye and pigment) do best
with microporous or "rapid dry" type papers. However, dye inks will be
less permanent with microporous papers so if the results are OK with
swellable polymer papers, that is an advantage to fade resistance.

HP new inks, particularly (the Vivera) are specifically designed for
their swellable polymer papers and will not give the fade resistance
advertised without them.

I would think many of the more established 3rd party ink manufacturers
will give paper suggestions and even provide free profiles.


Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The IMHO is important in this posting. ;-)

Agfa, as I have posted here, had some of the worst wet lab photo print
papers. Kodak's standard papers are not even as good as the Fuji
Crystal Archive papers. Kodak does make some more stable photo print
papers, but they aren't in as common use as the Fuji products.

Some of Canon's inks (and others) depending upon the paper used, provide
quite poor permanence, especially if displayed in indoor lighting
without glass. I would think 25-30 years is being very optimistic.

Art

 

[Fenrir Enterprises]

Hi Scott,


HP color inkjet printers, for instance, tend to work best with swellable
polymer inks while most Canon and Epson do best with Microporous papers.

Is there any list out there which tells which paper is which? That
article that was posted is rather old, and the instructions on it
might not work so well nowadays. I'm wondering what the Epson Ultra
Premium Glossy Photo Paper (which is difficult to find locally) is.
It's 'instant-dry' like microporous, but I think it's swellable. I
could be wrong though.

There are probably some web resources for determining best papers and
ink combinations, as determined by private users, but I don't know of
any off the top of my head. Epson, of course, offers charts showing
which papers of their own brand work best with which inks and printers.

I've always thought that brand name photo papers aren't expensive
enough to warrant going to another brand unless you can get a very
good deal on it or if the other brand is rated better than the printer
brand paper. I always use Epson and HP paper for anything I want to
save or that I want to make a nice original for photocopies of (i.e.
brochures or flyers), but if I can get Office Depot Professional Gloss
Photo Paper 100 packs for buy-one-get-one, I use that for stuff for
the fridge, etc. I think it's microporous, but am not sure on that
either. The Epson Ultra-Premium paper is /really/ nice with my R340
though, much, much better than the OD one. I've never had good results
with Kodak paper or OfficeMax brand, I haven't tried the Staples one.

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