"Close Lid behavior" broken

[Jon Davis]

Stupid Vista Power Options doesn't work right. I have an Acer Aspire 5050
laptop and though it's been plugged in for the last day or so, when I close
the lid, Vista enters Suspend mode. I had set in Power Options for Vista to
suspend ONLY if the power supply is disconnected.

I know that it isn't an Aspire limitation because the battery system tray
icon shows the "plugged in" graphic when I plug in AC/DC adapter.

Jon

 

[Jim]

Stupid Vista Power Options doesn't work right. I have an Acer Aspire 5050
laptop and though it's been plugged in for the last day or so, when I close
the lid, Vista enters Suspend mode. I had set in Power Options for Vista to
suspend ONLY if the power supply is disconnected.

I know that it isn't an Aspire limitation because the battery system tray
icon shows the "plugged in" graphic when I plug in AC/DC adapter.

Jon

I don't have Vista on my laptop yet, but under XP there's
configuration opens to specify exactly what to do when the lid is
closed, e.g. suspend or shutdown. I think this fucntionality is
controlled by the vendor - Toshiba in my case; Acer in yours.


Jim

 

[Jon Davis]

I don't have Vista on my laptop yet, but under XP there's
configuration opens to specify exactly what to do when the lid is
closed, e.g. suspend or shutdown. I think this fucntionality is
controlled by the vendor - Toshiba in my case; Acer in yours.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. You mean in the BIOS? No options
there for me. Of course, I'm not going to dare to install the crappy Acer
add-on utilities for XP on my Vista environment.

I already explained that I specified in the Power Options exactly what to do
when the lid is closed, and to suspend ONLY if unplugged. The power options
and events for closing and opening the lid and for the power buttons (Sleep,
Power) are VERY standardized to be passed on to the OS to let it decide what
to do, just as with Ctrl+Alt+Delete. This is a Vista failure, not an Acer
failure, since it is Vista that is doing the work of suspending in the first
place.

Jon

 

[Jim]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. You mean in the BIOS? No options
there for me. Of course, I'm not going to dare to install the crappy Acer
add-on utilities for XP on my Vista environment.

I already explained that I specified in the Power Options exactly what to do
when the lid is closed, and to suspend ONLY if unplugged. The power options
and events for closing and opening the lid and for the power buttons (Sleep,
Power) are VERY standardized to be passed on to the OS to let it decide what
to do, just as with Ctrl+Alt+Delete. This is a Vista failure, not an Acer
failure, since it is Vista that is doing the work of suspending in the first
place.

Jon

Fair enough, only trying to help.

Jim

 

[Richard Urban]

The operating system has no idea what the intentions of the manufacturer are
regarding the proprietary hardware used in laptops. The manufacturers
utilities are a bridge between the O/S and the hardware. If the bridge is
left open, by not installing the utilities, it is likely that you may some
undesired consequences.

If the manufacturer does not supply the utilities/drivers for Vista you may
well be out of luck.

What does the manufacturer have to say about Vista compatibility for your
computer? Are they even contemplating such?

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[John Barnes]

Jane C covered in another post.

Control Panel\System and Maintenance\Power Options then select 'change plan
settings'. Select 'change advanced power settings', expand 'power buttons
and lid', select 'start menu power button', change to 'shutdown'

In your case you should probably change the power button option and let us
know.

 

[Jon Davis]

The operating system has no idea what the intentions of the manufacturer
are regarding the proprietary hardware used in laptops.

It's not proprietary. The Fn key is proprietary; Fn+F8 is proprietary.
Ctrl+Alt+Del is treated special by the BIOS, but it's not proprietary and
the OS knows how to deal with tihs. The Power button, the sleep button, and
the little button in the little hole that gets poked when you close the lid,
are all universally standard.

Jon

 

[Jon Davis]

Jane C covered in another post.

Control Panel\System and Maintenance\Power Options then select 'change
plan
settings'. Select 'change advanced power settings', expand 'power buttons
and lid', select 'start menu power button', change to 'shutdown'

In your case you should probably change the power button option and let us
know.

Huh? What does that have to do with closing the lid? I want nothing to
happen when I close the lid if I'm plugged in. I already said I changed the
power options as such. The Power button is not at issue here.

Actually, I can't even open the "Advanced Power Options" from that screen. I
click on the link and nothing happens.

I did click on "restore defaults for this plan" and then reset everything
back to the way I wanted it. The lid is closed as I'm typing this (using an
external monitor)... *sigh of relief*.

Jon

 

[Jon Davis]

The operating system has no idea what the intentions of the manufacturer
are regarding the proprietary hardware used in laptops.

Sorry I can't stop myself from replying to this again. Think about what
you're saying here in the scenario I already painted: 1) The battery icon in
the system tray says 50% charged. 2) I plug in the A/C adapter. 3) The icon
on the system tray shows that it's plugged in and charging. 4) I use the
machine for many hours. 5) The lid gets closed. 6) Vista decides to suspend.
7) I open the lid and press the Power button. 8) Vista decides to spin up
and act like nothing happened (literally).

I am really surprised by this logic. Vista is 100% responsible for its own
behavior in sleeping when it knew the lid was closed (the "proprietary"
hardware cannot suspend an OS) and it knew it was plugged in, in total
contradiction to the settings I made.

BTW yes, the Acer Aspire 5050 is Vista Premium ready. It is also ACPI
compliant, which is why there's no such thing as "proprietary" for these
things.

Jon

 

[Richard Urban]

The hardware isn't proprietary?

Go to Best Buy, or any so called computer oriented retail establishment, and
try to purchase a new motherboard for a laptop. Impossible to do.

How about upgrading the video card? Impossible to do.

Want to change to another sound card? Impossible to do.

Most everything in the laptop is proprietary.

And yes, a pushbutton is standard. How it reacts with the built in (and
unchangeable) hardware, including the hard encodes chips, is not. The end
results may be similar but the route taken to get there are quite different.

If I don't like the way my desktop M/B handles certain aspects of my
computer experience, I can choose from dozens of others. With a laptop you
can have the original M/B replaced with the exact same M/B only. After a few
years that may not even be possible.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Jon Davis]

ACPI.

Jon

 

[Jon Davis]

Oh,

Want to change to another sound card? Impossible to do.

PCMCIA. USB.

Jon

 

[Richard Urban]

Right. I have 4 computers in my work shop that are ACPI compliant. Each one
acts a bit differently, under both Windows XP and under Vista. Recovery from
sleep/suspend and hibernate requires slightly different physical actions.

I have a business acquaintance that has a laptop (I have no knowledge of
brand/model). He tells me that in addition to opening the cover he has to
also press the power button to bring his laptop out of any of the power
saving modes. He sent the computer back to the manufacturer. They returned
it and said there was nothing wrong with the computer.

So, he dumps the operating system and loads Windows XP after a delete
partition, create partition, format and install. Without installing the
manufacturers drivers and utility programs the laptop was brain dead.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Richard Urban]

OK. I was unaware that this capability existed.

Now, if the PCMCIA slot in the computer gets physically damaged (it does
happen) can you go anywhere except to the manufacturer to get a replacement?
If it is part of the M/B, can you go anywhere else?

With a desktop you can go to any quality computer retail store and get
either a new card or a new M/B (both will come with interface drivers).
Nothing proprietary there.

I am just questioning your implication that laptops do not use proprietary
hardware. And yes, I am fully aware that some desktops do also.

I have an older desktop, that was left with me for parts, that has a 1 inch
x 2 inch board riveted to a standoff, that is - in turn - riveted to the
computer case. I have no idea what this board does, but if the wires that
feed it are disconnected the computer does not boot. This board exists in no
other computer that I have ever seen.

--


Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

 

[Chad Harris]

Change the function of the Power button on a mobile PC/All Vista editions:

By default, pressing the power button on a mobile PC turns it off.
Alternately, you can choose to put your mobile PC to sleep or put it into
hibernation when you press the power button. You can apply the same setting
to all of your power plans or you can apply different settings to individual
plans.

To apply the same setting to all plans

1. Open Power Options by clicking the Start button , clicking Control
Panel, clicking System and Maintenance, and then clicking Power Options.

2. On the Select a power plan page, click Choose what the power
button does.

3. On the Define power buttons and turn on password protection
page, next to When I press the power button, choose what you want your
mobile PC to do when you press the power button, both for when your mobile
PC is running on battery and when it is plugged in.

4. Click Save changes.


To apply a setting to a specific plan

1. Open Power Options by clicking the Start button , clicking Control
Panel, clicking System and Maintenance, and then clicking Power Options.

2. On the Select a power plan page, click Change plan settings
for the plan that you want to change.

3. On the Change settings for the plan page, click Change
advanced power settings.

4. On the Advanced settings tab, expand Power buttons and lid,
expand Power button action, and then choose what you want your mobile PC to
do when you press the power button, both for when your mobile PC is running
on battery and when it is plugged in.

5. Click OK.


________________

Change what happens when you close your mobile PC lid
Applies to all editions


When you close the lid on your mobile PC, Windows can shut down, do nothing,
or enter a power-saving state, such as sleep or hibernation. You can apply
the same setting to all of your power plans or you can apply different
settings to individual plans.

To apply the same setting to all plans

1. Open Power Options by clicking the Start button , clicking Control
Panel, clicking System and Maintenance, and then clicking Power Options.

2. On the Select a power plan page, click Choose what closing
the lid does.

3. On the Define power buttons and turn on password protection
page, next to When I close the lid, choose what you want your mobile PC to
do, both for when it is running on battery and when it is plugged in.

TipTo save battery power and quickly resume working,
select Sleep. When you wake your mobile PC, Windows restores your work
session within seconds.

4. Click Save changes.


To apply a setting to a specific plan

1. Open Power Options by clicking the Start button , clicking Control
Panel, clicking System and Maintenance, and then clicking Power Options.

2. On the Select a power plan page, click Change plan settings
for the plan that you want to change.

3. On the Change settings for the plan page, click Change
advanced power settings.

4. On the Advanced settings tab, expand Power buttons and lid,
expand Lid close action, and then choose what you want your mobile PC to do
when you close the lid, both for when your mobile PC is running on battery
and when it is plugged in.

5. Click OK.



CH

 

[Dennis Pack]

Chad:
Your function change listing works without any problems on my Compac
Presario v2300CTO with Vista Enterprise x86 RTM. I guess my copy of Vista
isn't broken.

 

[Jon Davis]

Thank you for repeating to the world the instructions on configurations that
were already known.

The Power Options functionality in Vista is prone to breaking, as I
configured it as such. As I explained, I got this working; the solution,
however temporary, was to click on "Restore defaults", apply, then
reconfigure the exact same settings. Something got reset and now the
behavior is correct.

Jon

 

[Jon Davis]

I am just questioning your implication that laptops do not use proprietary
hardware.

I never implied that. I said "it's not proprietary", meaning closing the lid
isn't proprietary. You're making blanket assertations about laptops being
proprietary, and I agree that laptops are *more* proprietary, but I'm
saying, given the context, there is nothing proprietary that applies here.

The ACPI standard, which is a standard and eliminates proprietary behavior
for things like this, has been revised frequently to address market changes,
which explains why some "ACPI compliant" hardware you've seen behaves
differently from others. But any newly built, Vista-ready machine that is
ACPI-compliant is going to be compliant to the latest revision of the
standard.

Windows builds its functionality on the interfaces that are exposed by ACPI.

Now, what does this have to do with anything? For the third time, Windows
knew the adapter was plugged in, and Windows was 100% responsible for its
own decision to suspend. Don't give me this "odd behavior" crap, 2+2=4
regardless of what drivers are installed.

Jon

 

[Chad Harris]

Jon--

You are most welcome. What has kept you from picking up the phone and
calling your PC manufacturer, Acer other than perhaps the holidays?

If you have it reset and fixed, then on to the next problem.

CH

 

[Jon Davis]

Jon--

You are most welcome. What has kept you from picking up the phone and
calling your PC manufacturer, Acer other than perhaps the holidays?

If you have it reset and fixed, then on to the next problem.

My problem is with people blaming the manufacturer. This is a Vista issue
and I don't want this thread to terminate on someone's incorrect declaration
or assumption that it's a manufacturer's problem--not that I want the last
word but that Microsoft lurks here for bug reports.

Jon