Clone of boot drive "not system disk"?????


S

surface9

This is a little bit complicated, but, I guess I am missing some
fundamental step.

What I have is a PC with both SATA and IDE. My SATA drive has windows
XP installed and boots fine. My IDE drive is dockable (removable),
and, when it is not insterted, the PC boots to XP in the SATA drive.
When the IDE drive is inserted, then the PC will boot to it, where I
have Windows 2000 installed. My IDE drive actually has two partitons
on it, and the 2nd partition is set up to be the target of an xcopy
command that copies the entire contents of the SATA drive onto it
(using the switches /s/e/c/h/o/y). This works just fine for restoring
my SATA drive when it gets a virus or for any reason gets too
cluttered up. All I have to do is insert the IDE drive (and boot up
to windows 2000 on it), then I simply format the SATA drive, and then
xcopy from the 2nd partition of my IDE drive onto the SATA drive.
After that, I turn off my PC, eject the IDE drive, and boot to my SATA
drive, which boots just fine back to where it was when I originally
backed it up (to the 2nd partition on the IDE drive).

If you follow this scheme, it really does make it easy to recover from
bad viruses or any cluttering on XP by just restoring the image
(created by the xcopy command from the SATA to the IDE partition 2
after my XP system was installed and working just the way I like it,
but before anything got cluttered up).

Now my problem is this. I purchased another SATA drive (identical to
the original), and I used the windows startup disk to partition it
(FAT32, just like my original SATA drive), and make it active, and
then I formatted it. Then I ejected my windows startup disk, inserted
my IDE drive, and booted to windows 2000, which went fine and it
showed my my new SATA drive empty but all partitioned and formatted,
and marked ACTIVE. Then I used xcopy to restore the 2nd partition of
my IDE onto my newly partitioned and formatted SATA drive (using the
switches /s/e/c/h/o/y), and it seemed to copy everything onto the new
SATA drive just fine. I can compare my new SATA drive to my old one,
and I can see NO DIFFERENCE.

BUT! When I try to boot to my new SATA drive (by removing my IDE
drive), it tells me I have a non-system disk!!!!! ?????

So, obviously, there is still something else I need to do to this new
SATA drive that doesn't show up by ordinary inspection. I wonder what
it is.

If anyone can help, please advise.

Note that I can still format my original SATA drive (and see that it
is truly empty), and then restore it from the 2nd partition of my IDE
drive and that still works like a champ. So, what I need to know is
what could possibly be different between my original SATA drive and my
new SATA drive, which are the identical models and look exactly the
same via explorer and the DIR command.

Help.
 
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M

M.I.5¾

surface9 said:
This is a little bit complicated, but, I guess I am missing some
fundamental step.

What I have is a PC with both SATA and IDE. My SATA drive has windows
XP installed and boots fine. My IDE drive is dockable (removable),
and, when it is not insterted, the PC boots to XP in the SATA drive.
When the IDE drive is inserted, then the PC will boot to it, where I
have Windows 2000 installed. My IDE drive actually has two partitons
on it, and the 2nd partition is set up to be the target of an xcopy
command that copies the entire contents of the SATA drive onto it
(using the switches /s/e/c/h/o/y). This works just fine for restoring
my SATA drive when it gets a virus or for any reason gets too
cluttered up. All I have to do is insert the IDE drive (and boot up
to windows 2000 on it), then I simply format the SATA drive, and then
xcopy from the 2nd partition of my IDE drive onto the SATA drive.
After that, I turn off my PC, eject the IDE drive, and boot to my SATA
drive, which boots just fine back to where it was when I originally
backed it up (to the 2nd partition on the IDE drive).

If you follow this scheme, it really does make it easy to recover from
bad viruses or any cluttering on XP by just restoring the image
(created by the xcopy command from the SATA to the IDE partition 2
after my XP system was installed and working just the way I like it,
but before anything got cluttered up).

Now my problem is this. I purchased another SATA drive (identical to
the original), and I used the windows startup disk to partition it
(FAT32, just like my original SATA drive), and make it active, and
then I formatted it. Then I ejected my windows startup disk, inserted
my IDE drive, and booted to windows 2000, which went fine and it
showed my my new SATA drive empty but all partitioned and formatted,
and marked ACTIVE. Then I used xcopy to restore the 2nd partition of
my IDE onto my newly partitioned and formatted SATA drive (using the
switches /s/e/c/h/o/y), and it seemed to copy everything onto the new
SATA drive just fine. I can compare my new SATA drive to my old one,
and I can see NO DIFFERENCE.

BUT! When I try to boot to my new SATA drive (by removing my IDE
drive), it tells me I have a non-system disk!!!!! ?????

So, obviously, there is still something else I need to do to this new
SATA drive that doesn't show up by ordinary inspection. I wonder what
it is.

If anyone can help, please advise.

Note that I can still format my original SATA drive (and see that it
is truly empty), and then restore it from the 2nd partition of my IDE
drive and that still works like a champ. So, what I need to know is
what could possibly be different between my original SATA drive and my
new SATA drive, which are the identical models and look exactly the
same via explorer and the DIR command.

Although you have diligently copied all the file structure to the second
disk, you haven't transferred the master boot record (MBR). This isn't a
file and does not get copied using a simple file copy. The easiest way to
write this is to boot your Windows XP installation disk (or tools disk if
OEM) and go into the system console. The command 'MAKEBOOT' will write a
maser boot record to your hard disk and it should now boot.
 
S

surface9

MI5,

My XP cd is not bootable (it is an upgrade, and needs to be run from
an existing win32 application).
I do not have a tools disk either.
Is there a way to enter the system console from windows 2000? If so,
could I boot from my IDE (win2k), and then write the MBR to the SATA
drive from there?
Or is there any kind of aftermarket boot cd that will let me get into
system console so I can use this makeboot command?
This is very encouraging. Thanks.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

surface9 said:
This is a little bit complicated, but, I guess I am missing some
fundamental step.

What I have is a PC with both SATA and IDE. My SATA drive has windows
XP installed and boots fine. My IDE drive is dockable (removable),
and, when it is not insterted, the PC boots to XP in the SATA drive.
When the IDE drive is inserted, then the PC will boot to it, where I
have Windows 2000 installed. My IDE drive actually has two partitons
on it, and the 2nd partition is set up to be the target of an xcopy
command that copies the entire contents of the SATA drive onto it
(using the switches /s/e/c/h/o/y). This works just fine for restoring
my SATA drive when it gets a virus or for any reason gets too
cluttered up. All I have to do is insert the IDE drive (and boot up
to windows 2000 on it), then I simply format the SATA drive, and then
xcopy from the 2nd partition of my IDE drive onto the SATA drive.
After that, I turn off my PC, eject the IDE drive, and boot to my SATA
drive, which boots just fine back to where it was when I originally
backed it up (to the 2nd partition on the IDE drive).

If you follow this scheme, it really does make it easy to recover from
bad viruses or any cluttering on XP by just restoring the image
(created by the xcopy command from the SATA to the IDE partition 2
after my XP system was installed and working just the way I like it,
but before anything got cluttered up).

Now my problem is this. I purchased another SATA drive (identical to
the original), and I used the windows startup disk to partition it
(FAT32, just like my original SATA drive), and make it active, and
then I formatted it. Then I ejected my windows startup disk, inserted
my IDE drive, and booted to windows 2000, which went fine and it
showed my my new SATA drive empty but all partitioned and formatted,
and marked ACTIVE. Then I used xcopy to restore the 2nd partition of
my IDE onto my newly partitioned and formatted SATA drive (using the
switches /s/e/c/h/o/y), and it seemed to copy everything onto the new
SATA drive just fine. I can compare my new SATA drive to my old one,
and I can see NO DIFFERENCE.

BUT! When I try to boot to my new SATA drive (by removing my IDE
drive), it tells me I have a non-system disk!!!!! ?????

So, obviously, there is still something else I need to do to this new
SATA drive that doesn't show up by ordinary inspection. I wonder what
it is.

If anyone can help, please advise.

Note that I can still format my original SATA drive (and see that it
is truly empty), and then restore it from the 2nd partition of my IDE
drive and that still works like a champ. So, what I need to know is
what could possibly be different between my original SATA drive and my
new SATA drive, which are the identical models and look exactly the
same via explorer and the DIR command.

Help.

I suspect that the Master Boot Record (MBR) of your second SATA disk is
incorrect. Here is how you can fix it:
1. Disconnect your IDE disk.
2. Connect your problem SATA disk only.
3. Boot the machine with your WinXP CD.
4. Get into the Recovery Console.
5. Type these commands:
fixmbr{Enter}
fixboot{Enter}

If you don't have a bootable WinXP CD (which surprises me very much) then
you must create yourself a set of Windows XP boot diskettes to get into the
Recovery Console. If you don't have a floppy disk drive then things are
getting a little difficult. I would probably borrow a second hand drive and
connect it temporarily.
 
L

Lil' Dave

Where was President and Congress before the mess that Americans already knew
about?
surface9 said:
This is a little bit complicated, but, I guess I am missing some
fundamental step.

What I have is a PC with both SATA and IDE. My SATA drive has windows
XP installed and boots fine. My IDE drive is dockable (removable),
and, when it is not insterted, the PC boots to XP in the SATA drive.
When the IDE drive is inserted, then the PC will boot to it, where I
have Windows 2000 installed. My IDE drive actually has two partitons
on it, and the 2nd partition is set up to be the target of an xcopy
command that copies the entire contents of the SATA drive onto it
(using the switches /s/e/c/h/o/y). This works just fine for restoring
my SATA drive when it gets a virus or for any reason gets too
cluttered up. All I have to do is insert the IDE drive (and boot up
to windows 2000 on it), then I simply format the SATA drive, and then
xcopy from the 2nd partition of my IDE drive onto the SATA drive.
After that, I turn off my PC, eject the IDE drive, and boot to my SATA
drive, which boots just fine back to where it was when I originally
backed it up (to the 2nd partition on the IDE drive).

If you follow this scheme, it really does make it easy to recover from
bad viruses or any cluttering on XP by just restoring the image
(created by the xcopy command from the SATA to the IDE partition 2
after my XP system was installed and working just the way I like it,
but before anything got cluttered up).

Now my problem is this. I purchased another SATA drive (identical to
the original), and I used the windows startup disk to partition it
(FAT32, just like my original SATA drive), and make it active, and
then I formatted it. Then I ejected my windows startup disk, inserted
my IDE drive, and booted to windows 2000, which went fine and it
showed my my new SATA drive empty but all partitioned and formatted,
and marked ACTIVE. Then I used xcopy to restore the 2nd partition of
my IDE onto my newly partitioned and formatted SATA drive (using the
switches /s/e/c/h/o/y), and it seemed to copy everything onto the new
SATA drive just fine. I can compare my new SATA drive to my old one,
and I can see NO DIFFERENCE.

BUT! When I try to boot to my new SATA drive (by removing my IDE
drive), it tells me I have a non-system disk!!!!! ?????

So, obviously, there is still something else I need to do to this new
SATA drive that doesn't show up by ordinary inspection. I wonder what
it is.

If anyone can help, please advise.

Note that I can still format my original SATA drive (and see that it
is truly empty), and then restore it from the 2nd partition of my IDE
drive and that still works like a champ. So, what I need to know is
what could possibly be different between my original SATA drive and my
new SATA drive, which are the identical models and look exactly the
same via explorer and the DIR command.

Help.

Where is the old SATA drive when you said you used xcopy to the new SATA
drive?
When you partitioned, set active, and formatted the new SATA drive?
When you attempted to boot from the new SATA drive?
The bios settings regarding boot when you attempted to boot from the new
SATA drive?
Does your PC's bios map SATA to ide in both conditions? That is, when both
when your ide drive is present and when it is not. Are those conditions
identical?
 
J

John John (MVP)

If your XP upgrade cd is a Microsoft Retail upgrade cd it is bootable,
if it's a special upgrade cd that was offered/supplied by your pc
manufacturer then you know better than us if it is bootable or not.

By the looks of it you used a Windows 98 startup diskette to prepare and
format your disk so you have a W9x boot sector on the active partition,
when you try to boot the hard disk the boot sector code is looking for
the W9x boot files and cannot find them so it trows up an error message,
you need to write an NT boot sector to the active partition.

You can use your Windows 2000 cd to do this, boot to the Recovery
Console and issue the FIXBOOT commands to write the proper NT boot
sector to the active partition. You probably don't need to issue the
FIXMBR command (the W9x MBR code will find the active partition and
properly load the boot sector) but running it will ensure that a proper
MBR is written and eliminate possible problems. MAKEBOOT is not a
Recovery Console command and it will not rewrite the MBR or the boot
sector. MAKEBOOT.exe is is a 16-bit utility that is used within 16-bit
operating system (DOS) to make Windows 2000 set setup boot diskette
sets, this utility is included on the Windows 2000 cd, the 32-bit
version of the utility is Makebt32.exe.

John
 
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S

surface9

Thanks to the replies here, I got it to work.

The history here: I originally had Windows 98se and I still have that
CD and I can boot from it.

Then, I purchased a windows 2000 Pro Upgrade, which came with a CD and
4 diskettes. The instructions for installing to a new system were to
boot from the diskettes, and I have done that many times. I lost the
original CD (and I never tried to boot from it), but I copied it and
the copy I still have is NOT BOOTABLE. Anyway, I can always create a
new windows 2000 pro system by booting from the diskettes.

Then I purchased a PC which came with an UPGRADE XP CD that requires
an existing system in order to install. When I try to boot from this
Upgrade XP CD, I get a curious response, it tells me to "insert
windows 2000 diskette #2", but, when I do, it just keeps repeating
that message - there is something flaky about this CD, but,
nevertheless, it will install Windows XP to an existing system.

So, following the advice here, I removed everything from this PC
except the new SATA drive, and I booted from my windows 2000 Pro
floppy diskettes. This takes about 20 minutes, and it goes through
ALL FOUR diskettes before it asks me if I want to a) install windows
2000 Pro, or b) recover from a damaged windows 2000 system.

I chose to recover, and it put me into the recovery console, and ask
me to select which windows 2000 system, and I chose 1, and then I got
the C: prompt.

I then, following the advice here, entered FIXBOOT, and it advised me
it had created a boot sector.

Then I entered FIXMBR, and it asks me to be sure, telling me that my
existing master boot record was non-standard and that I could loose
all data on this partition. I replied yes and it then advised me that
a new master boot record had been written.

Then I removed the floppy, and booted from my new SATA, and it
worked!

Now my new SATA is truly identical to my old SATA, including the boot
sector and the master boot record. I can swap out my old SATA for my
new SATA and I cannot tell any difference during the startup nor
windows XP operation.

Now my attention is focused on getting a valid CD (windows 2000 or XP)
from which I can boot so as to enter the recovery console without
having to wait through four slow floppy reads. If there is some
aftermarket method to build a bootable CD for entering the recover
console ONLY, then that would be super, because my existing windows
2000 Pro UPgrade CD and my existing windows XP upgrade CD are valid
with valid CD keys and all. I just need to be able to enter the
recovery console, without needing to go through four floppy reads.
Also, even though my current PC has a floppy, I am likely to acquire
one in the near future that will be without a floppy - that technology
is fading fast.

Thanks for the advice here. The only time I insert my IDE drive, for
which I originally went through the whole speel of the four diskettes
and the windows 2000 Pro installation, is when I need to either
backup, or restore, the XP system on the SATA drive (new or old),
using the xcopy /s/e/c/h/o/y command. That way I can not worry about
viruses or accidentally installing a nuisance application - it is easy
to just restore and that eliminates any problems that cause my XP
system to be cluttered up.

Learning about boot sectors and master boot records has been very
instructive - thanks for the responses.
 
J

Jim

surface9 said:
Thanks to the replies here, I got it to work.

The history here: I originally had Windows 98se and I still have that
CD and I can boot from it.

Then, I purchased a windows 2000 Pro Upgrade, which came with a CD and
4 diskettes. The instructions for installing to a new system were to
boot from the diskettes, and I have done that many times. I lost the
original CD (and I never tried to boot from it), but I copied it and
the copy I still have is NOT BOOTABLE. Anyway, I can always create a
new windows 2000 pro system by booting from the diskettes.

Then I purchased a PC which came with an UPGRADE XP CD that requires
an existing system in order to install. When I try to boot from this
Upgrade XP CD, I get a curious response, it tells me to "insert
windows 2000 diskette #2", but, when I do, it just keeps repeating
that message - there is something flaky about this CD, but,
nevertheless, it will install Windows XP to an existing system.

So, following the advice here, I removed everything from this PC
except the new SATA drive, and I booted from my windows 2000 Pro
floppy diskettes. This takes about 20 minutes, and it goes through
ALL FOUR diskettes before it asks me if I want to a) install windows
2000 Pro, or b) recover from a damaged windows 2000 system.

I chose to recover, and it put me into the recovery console, and ask
me to select which windows 2000 system, and I chose 1, and then I got
the C: prompt.

I then, following the advice here, entered FIXBOOT, and it advised me
it had created a boot sector.

Then I entered FIXMBR, and it asks me to be sure, telling me that my
existing master boot record was non-standard and that I could loose
all data on this partition. I replied yes and it then advised me that
a new master boot record had been written.

Then I removed the floppy, and booted from my new SATA, and it
worked!

Now my new SATA is truly identical to my old SATA, including the boot
sector and the master boot record. I can swap out my old SATA for my
new SATA and I cannot tell any difference during the startup nor
windows XP operation.

Now my attention is focused on getting a valid CD (windows 2000 or XP)
from which I can boot so as to enter the recovery console without
having to wait through four slow floppy reads. If there is some
aftermarket method to build a bootable CD for entering the recover
console ONLY, then that would be super, because my existing windows
2000 Pro UPgrade CD and my existing windows XP upgrade CD are valid
with valid CD keys and all. I just need to be able to enter the
recovery console, without needing to go through four floppy reads.
Also, even though my current PC has a floppy, I am likely to acquire
one in the near future that will be without a floppy - that technology
is fading fast.

Thanks for the advice here. The only time I insert my IDE drive, for
which I originally went through the whole speel of the four diskettes
and the windows 2000 Pro installation, is when I need to either
backup, or restore, the XP system on the SATA drive (new or old),
using the xcopy /s/e/c/h/o/y command. That way I can not worry about
viruses or accidentally installing a nuisance application - it is easy
to just restore and that eliminates any problems that cause my XP
system to be cluttered up.

Learning about boot sectors and master boot records has been very
instructive - thanks for the responses.
You could have saved yourself a lot of pain and suffering if you had only
used ATI or Ghost to clone the disk. These two definitely copy the MBR
over.
Jim
 
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K

Ken Blake, MVP

MI5,

My XP cd is not bootable (it is an upgrade, and needs to be run from
an existing win32 application).


Although there may be a very occasional exception, upgrade CDs "are"
bootable.
 

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