Choosing mouse - optical, radio, Bluetooth?


N

nooneimportant

I use a MS Wireless InteliMouse Explorer 2.0 ... wouldn't trade it for
anything! The batteries add just the right amount of heft missing from many
optical mice, but i've grown use to the lighter feel of optical mice anyway.
I've never had ANY surface related issues with any optical mouse, ive used
on white formica, woodgrain formica, blue jeans, slacks, t'shirts, and when
the cat didn't want to get down... cat fur! they work on every surface i've
tried so far! Some wireless mice now are rechargable, but frankly i prefer
the battery kind, rechargables are known to run out of juice when you need
the mouse the most, and its a pain to have to wait 45mins+ to get enough
charge back on to function well, wheras I can throw in 2 spare AA batteries
in seconds and be on my way , and getting a massive stick of bats at costco
isn't all that expensive(i have half a stick of bats sitting in desk drawer
to have handy for the mouse), Ive run 2 months now without needing to
replace! Bluetooth does little more than give you more range, who cares
about bandwidth of a wireless connection when its just a friggen mouse, not
much data to tx, much less rx! I'm fine with my setup, the USB powered
"base" sits out of the way behind my monitor, and i can still use the mouse
from almost across the room, not that i need to, 99.9999 percent of the time
it sits in its usual place right next to the keyboard on the desk, but i
don't have to worry about its cables getting in the way (like they do on my
other desktop), and on a cramped desk its nice to be able to work the mouse
from wherever there is room instead of wherever the cable lets me go (even
if it meens the knee of my pants!) Bluetooth will add considerably to a
mouse, and like i said all it does is provide more range, perhaps it may add
some security, but on a mouse there isn't much that can be listened to, just
movements and clicks, listener has no idea what is being moused and clicked
so i'm not worried about it. Now for keyboards i will always be wired,
simply for security, sure someone can install a keylogger onto my system,
but firewalling and good spyware antivirus go a long way to prevent that,
but NOBODY can sit outside with a reciever and pick up what i'm typing cus
it ain't broadcast wirelessly! IF i had to go wireless for kbd it would be
bluetooth, and even then i would want the best encryption possible! An
optical mouse is good for price, and IMO not much else. They work great on
semisoft surfaces, usually poorly on hard surfaces, and surfaces need to be
flat as a general rule (usually not an issue.) DOWNSIDE is a major one for
me, and is the reason i left the balled mouse behind, AS A BALL MOUSE AGES
IT WILL NOT WORK RIGHT! And they do tend to age quickly! ANY dust ona
surface starts to build up on the rollers and before you know it the mouse
starts to "hang" or "skip" across the screen in one or both dimensions, you
can start to feel "bumps" in the movement. Sure you can clean it out, and
its not that hard to do, but ive found no matter how clean you make a dirty
mouse, it will never work like it did when new. Wheras opticals don't have
any moving pieces to get gummed up, and ive never had an issue with the
sensor not being able to see the surface, tho I imagine with LOTS of use it
would be wise to gently clean it (Have an optical mouse that ran for 2 years
on my machine, and has now run 2 more years when i gave that system to my
grandmother, both of us use(d) the computer more than 3 hours a day, never
needed cleaning!)

Gotta say that the wheelmouse is the way to go, especially if you are used
to it. If you go to a mouse without you will find yourself trying to scroll
a page without realizing you don't have the wheel anymore, you never know
how much you miss it. Some wheelmice can now tilt to scroll horizontally,
but i have yet to see a SMOOTH implementation of this idea, usually tilts to
click instead of being an axis like a good wheel behaves.

Like other posters have stated try out several, not just in the store, but
try and find someone that actually has a working mouse you can use (look
around the demo machines in your local computer megastore, chances are you
will find a decent variaty of mice to try out), but i think there is
something to be said for removing mechanical components from the mouse and
going to optical technolegy, Tend to get much more precise mouse movement,
and just like a ball mouse you can tell the OS how fast you want to dictate
mouse movement/acceleration.

Just my $0.04
 
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R

ric

E2E said:
I am still using a corded mouse (logitech wheelmouse).

I would like to get a better mouse which has at least as good
precision, responsiveness, accuracy, etc.

Would an optical mouse be better on all counts?

What about a cordless mouse. Are they poor performers? What about
a Bluetooth connection - is that good. Is it pricey.
I am using a Logitech MX700 cordless optical mouse. I have been using it
for over 6 months with NO problems. I'm using the PS/2 interface.
 
R

ric

Paul said:
A good cordless mouse will perform as well as a wired one. The
benefit of optical cordless mice is the batteries add weight and, in
my opinion, make it feel more positive in use. The downside is the
batteries don't tend to last long in cordless optical mice so you'll
probably want to add the price of two sets of rechargeables and a
charger to the purchase cost.
My MX700 came with NiMH batteries, and the charger is built into
the receiver/cradle. Simply insert the mouse into the cradle while
you sleep.
 
B

Bob Adkins

I am still using a corded mouse (logitech wheelmouse).

I would like to get a better mouse which has at least as good
precision, responsiveness, accuracy, etc.

Would an optical mouse be better on all counts?

What about a cordless mouse. Are they poor performers? What about
a Bluetooth connection - is that good. Is it pricey.

Are there any web sites which discuss this. Google is no help to
me.

Optical is FAR superior to ball. There's no excuse not to buy a $15 MS
optical mouse now.

PS2 is slightly superior to USB at the moment.

Corded is slightly superior to cordless at the moment.

Perhaps there will soon be USB2 mice and all this will change.

Bob

Remove "kins" from address to reply.
 
J

joe

Great reply. Thanks for the info.

Have you ever thought of taking a breath? :)
 
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E

E2E t-bot BT

Bob Adkins said:
Optical is FAR superior to ball. There's no excuse not to buy
a $15 MS optical mouse now.

PS2 is slightly superior to USB at the moment.

Corded is slightly superior to cordless at the moment.

Perhaps there will soon be USB2 mice and all this will change.

Good info. You cover the points succinctly.
 
N

nooneimportant

Hehe, sorry bout getting a bit longwinded, tends to happen when i find
myself dragging in late at night to check my email......
 
C

Clyde

ric said:
E2E t-bot BT wrote:




I am using a Logitech MX700 cordless optical mouse. I have been using it
for over 6 months with NO problems. I'm using the PS/2 interface.
I have exactly the same setup and results. It's the best mouse and
keyboard I've ever used.

BTW, the rechargeable batteries in it last about a half a week for me.
The red light starts blinking way before the batteries are dead with
plenty or warning to put it in the cradle. Actually, I get about a whole
evening with the light blinking. I've never seen it die completely.

Highly recommended.

Clyde
 
G

Geoff Pearson

E2E t-bot BT said:
I am still using a corded mouse (logitech wheelmouse).

I would like to get a better mouse which has at least as good
precision, responsiveness, accuracy, etc.

Would an optical mouse be better on all counts?

What about a cordless mouse. Are they poor performers? What about
a Bluetooth connection - is that good. Is it pricey.

Are there any web sites which discuss this. Google is no help to
me.
I like my Logitech wireless mouse - which needs new batteries 3-4 times
a year.
 
M

~misfit~

Alex said:
But that's a different mouse, so there's no way of knowing whether the
difference was down to the mouse itself or the interface.

I have a Microsoft optical mouse (five button one, no idea what
model), which can be used either via USB or PS/2 (with an adapter).
Initially I used it on PS/2, but I couldn't tell the difference when
I switched to USB a year or so ago.
I too use an MS optical, just the base model. I used to use it via the USB
port as I had one spare and it's more modern. <g> Now I have a couple of
machines hooked up to a KVM and it uses the PS/2 port. I can detect no
difference in response times, in games or at work.
 
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E

E2E t-bot BT

Freddie Clark said:
I use logitech cordless desktop, I have tried all logitech
cordless models. Liked them all, No real problems with the
keyboard but as a games player I note the mouse does run out
fairly quickly, I replace the keyboard batteries about every
5-6 months. When I am home I can run the mouse out in two
weeks easily.
But excellent combo, and a couple of AA batteries every two
weeks isnt so bad.

Try not to crosspost, it just pisses people off.

If people get pissed off at crossposting then they should read up
on it and understand that it is perfectly appropriate if it is not
misused.

If they can not manage their newsreader to squelch subsequrnt
crossposts then they should review what they are using for news or
how they are using it.

The big one: http://www.newsreaders.com/gnksa/gnksa.txt
http://www.itel.gil.com.au/gil/help-me/news-newsgroups/index.asp
http://www.lysator.liu.se/etexts/iguide/chap4.crosspost.html
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

In terms of performance there's probably nothing of note in it, but
USB has the multi-purpose thing going for it.
So a PS/2 mouse uses up a resource that can be used only for mouse,
whereas a USB mouse uses up resources (USB socket, USB bandwidth, USB
power draw) that could have been used for something else. Hmm.

Couple that with environments where PS/2 mouse works and USB mouse
does not, and avoiding USB mouse begins to look like a no-brainer.

Personally, I'd buy a decent generic cabled PS/2 optical mouse, and
spend the savings on a night out to celebrate :)

One thing to test: Some optical mice are fussy about the surface they
run on (and it goes about what the surface "looks" like, not texture).

Transparent glass tables and certain patterned surfaces (ironically,
such as many ornate or promotional mouse pads) can understandably give
an optical mouse a hard time, but a mouse that works only on a plain
white sheet of paper is one to avoid. I've seen several of those.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Running Windows-based av to kill active malware is like striking
a match to see if what you are standing in is water or petrol.
 
C

cquirke (MVP Win9x)

I'm not aware of any reason that a mouse connected via USB would be limited
to 125Hz sampling. What I do know about USB leads me to think that this is
unlikely (1kHz is much more likely), although USB need not be the limiting
factor. That said, the mouse position reported by Windows on this system
(with the mouse attached by USB) appears to change at (up to) 125Hz
The obvious related question is whether or not there is anything to be
gained by sampling at 200Hz. I think this is debatable
It may also not be the issue here, if delays are caused by other
traffic on the USB that delays mouse events.

Is mouse sampling actively done by the system, or does the system
merey read the mouse even queue every X ms? If the latter, and the
even queue isn't timeously populated because of other USB traffic,
then mouse lag is likely to be an issue with USB.


-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - -
Running Windows-based av to kill active malware is like striking
a match to see if what you are standing in is water or petrol.
 
P

Piotr Makley

Alex Fraser said:
I'm not aware of any reason that a mouse connected via USB
would be limited to 125Hz sampling. What I do know about USB
leads me to think that this is unlikely (1kHz is much more
likely), although USB need not be the limiting factor. That
said, the mouse position reported by Windows on this system
(with the mouse attached by USB) appears to change at (up to)
125Hz

The obvious related question is whether or not there is
anything to be gained by sampling at 200Hz. I think this is
debatable, and the benefit marginal at best. At 200Hz, there
is a 2.5ms average and 5ms worst case delay between moving the
mouse and that movement registering. At "a mere 125Hz", these
figures increase to 4ms and 8ms respectively. These seem
rather small periods of time in the context of human
perception.

ISTR that there is some free software for checking mouse sampling
rates. Do youo know of anything which does this?
 
A

Alex Fraser

cquirke (MVP Win9x) said:
It may also not be the issue here, if delays are caused by other
traffic on the USB that delays mouse events.
Well, any such delays can easily be avoided altogether: plug the mouse
directly into a port on the PC.
Is mouse sampling actively done by the system, or does the system
merey read the mouse even queue every X ms?
There's no event queue (at the USB level), just data representing the
current button states and relative (to last time) X/Y/wheel movement. (The
same applies to a PS/2 mouse.)

The only way a USB mouse (like any USB device) gets to send data is when the
host invites it to, but whether a mouse is only asked at whatever frequency,
or whether it's asked more often and simply replies "I have nothing to say"
some of the time, I have no idea.
If the latter, and the even queue isn't timeously populated because of
other USB traffic, then mouse lag is likely to be an issue with USB.
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say - that the mouse may not be
read in a timely manner because the USB is busy with other traffic? Using
Interrupt Transfer mode (the obvious choice for a mouse), and assuming a low
speed device (ditto), it can be guaranteed that the position etc is updated
_at least_ every 10ms (100Hz).

Alex
 
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A

Alex Fraser

Piotr Makley said:
ISTR that there is some free software for checking mouse sampling
rates. Do youo know of anything which does this?
I hacked this up to find the rate for my mouse (probably took less time than
looking for something else would have):
http://www.adf.me.uk/mouse_test.exe (36KB)

To use, run it and move the mouse in a circle; press any key to exit. The
maximum rate you see should be accurate to within 2%, if test_count (you'll
see what I mean if you try it) is large, by which I mean in the thousands -
shouldn't be a problem.

Alex
 
E

empireAA

I have a MS Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0 and it works great. Can work on just
about any surface(except glass of course) and can use PS2 or USB 2.0. I've
had to change the batteries once every2-3 months because when it's not
actively being used it kind of goes into a power-saving mode.
 
P

Peter Rossiter

Alex Fraser said:
I hacked this up to find the rate for my mouse (probably took
less time than looking for something else would have):
http://www.adf.me.uk/mouse_test.exe (36KB)

To use, run it and move the mouse in a circle; press any key
to exit. The maximum rate you see should be accurate to within
2%, if test_count (you'll see what I mean if you try it) is
large, by which I mean in the thousands - shouldn't be a
problem.

Alex

Very cool. Also: http://tscherwitschke.de/mouseratechecker.html

If I plug in a much cheaper mouse than I usually use then I get a
lower rate.

Is this because not all mice work to the same mevel of performance?
I got the impression that this was something which was governed by
the systen rather than the mouse.
 
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L

Larc

| I hacked this up to find the rate for my mouse (probably took less time than
| looking for something else would have):
| http://www.adf.me.uk/mouse_test.exe (36KB)
|
| To use, run it and move the mouse in a circle; press any key to exit. The
| maximum rate you see should be accurate to within 2%, if test_count (you'll
| see what I mean if you try it) is large, by which I mean in the thousands -
| shouldn't be a problem.

Thanks for passing this on, Alex! :)

My MS USB optical gets a little more than 17k. Wonder what others
who've tried the test got?

Larc



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