chkdsk starts when boot up

[Dean]

This morning, I turned on my computer and, before I knew it, it was doing a
5- minute chkdsk, saying my file system is NTFS and the "volume is dirty".
It deleted three indexes, one of which was in Outlook.exe. I have more
details of index and file #'s if anyone wants them.

I don't recall that chkdsk is something one expects upon booting. Though
everything seems fine, I am curious why this happened. Is this just some
sort of automatic maintenance when XP detects a problem while trying to boot
up?

Thanks!
Dean

 

[Terry]

On 4/10/2007 9:23 AM On a whim, Dean pounded out on the keyboard

This morning, I turned on my computer and, before I knew it, it was doing a
5- minute chkdsk, saying my file system is NTFS and the "volume is dirty".
It deleted three indexes, one of which was in Outlook.exe. I have more
details of index and file #'s if anyone wants them.

I don't recall that chkdsk is something one expects upon booting. Though
everything seems fine, I am curious why this happened. Is this just some
sort of automatic maintenance when XP detects a problem while trying to boot
up?

Thanks!
Dean

Hi Dean,

Yes, it is. I would make sure you have a current backup. You could
have an impending hard drive failure.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[C J.]

Hi Dean... see this discussion and remedy here at

http://discussions.virtualdr.com/showthread.php?t=192763

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Check Disk runs on every boot.

Open a command prompt...
Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs /d

Hit the Enter key.

Chkntfs displays or modifies the checking of disks at boot time.

The /d switch restores the machine to the default behavior; all drives are
checked at boot time and chkdsk is run on those that are dirty.

Autochk.exe is a version of Chkdsk that runs only before Windows XP
starts. Autochk runs in the following situations:

Autochk runs if you try to run Chkdsk on the boot volume.
Autochk runs if Chkdsk cannot gain exclusive use of the volume.
Autochk runs if the volume is flagged as dirty.

This can happen if the drive's dirty bit is set.
When a drive's dirty bit is set, autochk automatically
checks the volume for errors the next time the computer is restarted.

This will report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

fsutil dirty query C:

Hit the Enter key.

Volume C: is not dirty
Volume C: is dirty

<quote>
If a volume's dirty bit is set, this indicates that the file system may be
in an inconsistent state. The dirty bit can be set because the volume is
online and has outstanding changes, because changes were made to the volume
and the computer shutdown before the changes were committed to disk, or
because corruption was detected on the volume. If the dirty bit is set when
the computer restarts, chkdsk runs to verify the consistency of the volume.

Every time Windows XP starts, Autochk.exe is called by the Kernel to scan
all volumes to check if the volume dirty bit is set. If the dirty bit is
set, autochk performs an immediate chkdsk /f on that volume. Chkdsk /f
verifies file system integrity and attempts to fix any problems with the
volume
<quote>
-----

This will also report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs c:

Hit the Enter key.

C: is not dirty.
-----

If this is not the problem.....

Go here:
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

Read the instructions at the top of the page.
Scroll down to:
82. Disable or Enable Check Disk Upon Boot
Click on Disable.
-----

Additional information...
Chkdsk.exe or Autochk.exe starts when you try to shut down or restart your
computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831426

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Dean]

Thanks, Wes.

I tried both of the commands to see if it was still dirty though, from what
I can figure out, chkdsk is supposed to have fixed it, I think.
Unfortunately, with either command, the screen popped up and disappeared
almost instantaneously, with no time to read it at all. Is there a way to
alter the command so that the result stays in the command dos prompt box so
I can read it?

Your info plus all the links sent by others was a little more info than I
could process. I can't really tell from reading them if I should expect I
have any problem now. More generally, I did reboot, after using the
computer for a couple of hours with no problem, and the reboot was fine too.
Is there really any reason to be concerned about the hard disk being almost
dead or anything? Also Outlook seems fine and two of the three deleted
indexes were associated with Outlook The other index deleted was
A0053534.ini, in case that means anything to anyone - a Google search with
that got zero hits.

Thanks so much.

Dean

 

[Dean]

Thanks CJ. I did not get a BSOD or anything like that, as suggested in the
thread sent to me. It seems to suggest that chkdsk should fix things, but
that is not completely clear. Terry seems to suggest I could be in for an
impending hard disk crash.

D

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Hi Dean,

If chkdsk ran and the volume is no longer dirty then there is no problem.

Did you type or paste fsutil dirty query C: into a command prompt or
into the Run command? I think you typed it into the Run command. Start |
Run is the Run command.

Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

cmd /K fsutil dirty query C:

Did a command prompt open and stay open? Look a the very first line;
Volume - C: is....

To open a command prompt, click Start, click Run, type: cmd into the
Open box and click OK.

Then type: fsutil dirty query C: and hit your Enter key.
------------

In the chkdsk log if you see something similar to this...

Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

[[Chkdsk.exe just reclaims the unused security descriptors as a housekeeping
activity, and it does not actually fix any kind of problem. ]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

 

[Dean]

I don't know where to find the chkdsk log, but I did copy down the 3 things
that showed up as being deleted - all 3 were indexes and two were outlook,
as I mentioned before.

Yes, you were right. I was typing it into the run box. When I do it right
it says Volume C is NOT dirty. So, I am fine now? I think you are also
saying chkdsk does not fix these errors (though I thought I read otherwise
in one of the links one of the other posters supplied). If so, I assume
that something fixed the errors, assuming these 3 deleted indexes were
"errors".

Thanks, Wes!
Dean

Hi Dean,

If chkdsk ran and the volume is no longer dirty then there is no problem.

Did you type or paste fsutil dirty query C: into a command prompt or
into the Run command? I think you typed it into the Run command. Start |
Run is the Run command.

Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

cmd /K fsutil dirty query C:

Did a command prompt open and stay open? Look a the very first line;
Volume - C: is....

To open a command prompt, click Start, click Run, type: cmd into the
Open box and click OK.

Then type: fsutil dirty query C: and hit your Enter key.
------------

In the chkdsk log if you see something similar to this...

Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

[[Chkdsk.exe just reclaims the unused security descriptors as a
housekeeping
activity, and it does not actually fix any kind of problem. ]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

Thanks, Wes.

I tried both of the commands to see if it was still dirty though, from
what I can figure out, chkdsk is supposed to have fixed it, I think.
Unfortunately, with either command, the screen popped up and disappeared
almost instantaneously, with no time to read it at all. Is there a way
to
alter the command so that the result stays in the command dos prompt box
so I can read it?

Your info plus all the links sent by others was a little more info than I
could process. I can't really tell from reading them if I should expect
I
have any problem now. More generally, I did reboot, after using the
computer for a couple of hours with no problem, and the reboot was fine
too. Is there really any reason to be concerned about the hard disk being
almost dead or anything? Also Outlook seems fine and two of the three
deleted indexes were associated with Outlook The other index deleted was
A0053534.ini, in case that means anything to anyone - a Google search
with
that got zero hits.

Thanks so much.

Dean

 

[Terry]

On 4/10/2007 2:37 PM On a whim, Dean pounded out on the keyboard

I don't know where to find the chkdsk log, but I did copy down the 3 things
that showed up as being deleted - all 3 were indexes and two were outlook,
as I mentioned before.

Yes, you were right. I was typing it into the run box. When I do it right
it says Volume C is NOT dirty. So, I am fine now? I think you are also
saying chkdsk does not fix these errors (though I thought I read otherwise
in one of the links one of the other posters supplied). If so, I assume
that something fixed the errors, assuming these 3 deleted indexes were
"errors".

Thanks, Wes!
Dean

Hi Dean,

If chkdsk ran and the volume is no longer dirty then there is no problem.

Did you type or paste fsutil dirty query C: into a command prompt or
into the Run command? I think you typed it into the Run command. Start |
Run is the Run command.

Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

cmd /K fsutil dirty query C:

Did a command prompt open and stay open? Look a the very first line;
Volume - C: is....

To open a command prompt, click Start, click Run, type: cmd into the
Open box and click OK.

Then type: fsutil dirty query C: and hit your Enter key.
------------

In the chkdsk log if you see something similar to this...

Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

[[Chkdsk.exe just reclaims the unused security descriptors as a
housekeeping
activity, and it does not actually fix any kind of problem. ]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

Thanks, Wes.

I tried both of the commands to see if it was still dirty though, from
what I can figure out, chkdsk is supposed to have fixed it, I think.
Unfortunately, with either command, the screen popped up and disappeared
almost instantaneously, with no time to read it at all. Is there a way
to
alter the command so that the result stays in the command dos prompt box
so I can read it?

Your info plus all the links sent by others was a little more info than I
could process. I can't really tell from reading them if I should expect
I
have any problem now. More generally, I did reboot, after using the
computer for a couple of hours with no problem, and the reboot was fine
too. Is there really any reason to be concerned about the hard disk being
almost dead or anything? Also Outlook seems fine and two of the three
deleted indexes were associated with Outlook The other index deleted was
A0053534.ini, in case that means anything to anyone - a Google search
with
that got zero hits.

Thanks so much.

Dean


Check Disk runs on every boot.

Open a command prompt...
Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs /d

Hit the Enter key.

Chkntfs displays or modifies the checking of disks at boot time.

The /d switch restores the machine to the default behavior; all drives
are checked at boot time and chkdsk is run on those that are dirty.

Autochk.exe is a version of Chkdsk that runs only before Windows XP
starts. Autochk runs in the following situations:

Autochk runs if you try to run Chkdsk on the boot volume.
Autochk runs if Chkdsk cannot gain exclusive use of the volume.
Autochk runs if the volume is flagged as dirty.

This can happen if the drive's dirty bit is set.
When a drive's dirty bit is set, autochk automatically
checks the volume for errors the next time the computer is restarted.

This will report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

fsutil dirty query C:

Hit the Enter key.

Volume C: is not dirty
Volume C: is dirty

<quote>
If a volume's dirty bit is set, this indicates that the file system may
be in an inconsistent state. The dirty bit can be set because the volume
is online and has outstanding changes, because changes were made to the
volume
and the computer shutdown before the changes were committed to disk, or
because corruption was detected on the volume. If the dirty bit is set
when
the computer restarts, chkdsk runs to verify the consistency of the
volume.

Every time Windows XP starts, Autochk.exe is called by the Kernel to
scan
all volumes to check if the volume dirty bit is set. If the dirty bit is
set, autochk performs an immediate chkdsk /f on that volume. Chkdsk /f
verifies file system integrity and attempts to fix any problems with the
volume
<quote>
-----

This will also report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs c:

Hit the Enter key.

C: is not dirty.
-----

If this is not the problem.....

Go here:
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

Read the instructions at the top of the page.
Scroll down to:
82. Disable or Enable Check Disk Upon Boot
Click on Disable.
-----

Additional information...
Chkdsk.exe or Autochk.exe starts when you try to shut down or restart
your computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831426

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In Dean <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
This morning, I turned on my computer and, before I knew it, it was
doing a 5- minute chkdsk, saying my file system is NTFS and the "volume
is dirty". It deleted three indexes, one of which was in Outlook.exe.
I
have more details of index and file #'s if anyone wants them.

I don't recall that chkdsk is something one expects upon booting.
Though everything seems fine, I am curious why this happened. Is this
just some sort of automatic maintenance when XP detects a problem while
trying to boot up?

Thanks!
Dean

Dean,

I would still make sure you have a good backup. I didn't say the hard
drive "was" failing, I said it "could" be failing. You don't want to
take a chance losing your data.

I have been fortunate enough that all but one of the five drives I've
had fail in the last couple years gave me a warning, and it started just
like this.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[Dean]

Are you saying that you've had five drives fail in two years? You must be
some heavy user, or are you a network admin for a company? And the warning
in four of those cases was an automated chkdsk running upon startup?

Terry, I will do as you say and backup tonight. Though I know the party
line is always backup, all the time, is there any amount of time, relative
to this problem, where I'm probably home free? In other words, if it is Ok
for a week, can I stop being paranoid and backing up daily?

Thanks!
Dean

On 4/10/2007 2:37 PM On a whim, Dean pounded out on the keyboard

I don't know where to find the chkdsk log, but I did copy down the 3
things that showed up as being deleted - all 3 were indexes and two were
outlook, as I mentioned before.

Yes, you were right. I was typing it into the run box. When I do it
right it says Volume C is NOT dirty. So, I am fine now? I think you are
also saying chkdsk does not fix these errors (though I thought I read
otherwise in one of the links one of the other posters supplied). If so,
I assume that something fixed the errors, assuming these 3 deleted
indexes were "errors".

Thanks, Wes!
Dean

Hi Dean,

If chkdsk ran and the volume is no longer dirty then there is no
problem.

Did you type or paste fsutil dirty query C: into a command prompt or
into the Run command? I think you typed it into the Run command. Start
| Run is the Run command.

Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

cmd /K fsutil dirty query C:

Did a command prompt open and stay open? Look a the very first line;
Volume - C: is....

To open a command prompt, click Start, click Run, type: cmd into the
Open box and click OK.

Then type: fsutil dirty query C: and hit your Enter key.
------------

In the chkdsk log if you see something similar to this...

Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

[[Chkdsk.exe just reclaims the unused security descriptors as a
housekeeping
activity, and it does not actually fix any kind of problem. ]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In Dean <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
Thanks, Wes.

I tried both of the commands to see if it was still dirty though, from
what I can figure out, chkdsk is supposed to have fixed it, I think.
Unfortunately, with either command, the screen popped up and
disappeared
almost instantaneously, with no time to read it at all. Is there a way
to
alter the command so that the result stays in the command dos prompt
box
so I can read it?

Your info plus all the links sent by others was a little more info than
I
could process. I can't really tell from reading them if I should
expect I
have any problem now. More generally, I did reboot, after using the
computer for a couple of hours with no problem, and the reboot was fine
too. Is there really any reason to be concerned about the hard disk
being
almost dead or anything? Also Outlook seems fine and two of the three
deleted indexes were associated with Outlook The other index deleted
was
A0053534.ini, in case that means anything to anyone - a Google search
with
that got zero hits.

Thanks so much.

Dean


Check Disk runs on every boot.

Open a command prompt...
Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs /d

Hit the Enter key.

Chkntfs displays or modifies the checking of disks at boot time.

The /d switch restores the machine to the default behavior; all drives
are checked at boot time and chkdsk is run on those that are dirty.

Autochk.exe is a version of Chkdsk that runs only before Windows XP
starts. Autochk runs in the following situations:

Autochk runs if you try to run Chkdsk on the boot volume.
Autochk runs if Chkdsk cannot gain exclusive use of the volume.
Autochk runs if the volume is flagged as dirty.

This can happen if the drive's dirty bit is set.
When a drive's dirty bit is set, autochk automatically
checks the volume for errors the next time the computer is restarted.

This will report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

fsutil dirty query C:

Hit the Enter key.

Volume C: is not dirty
Volume C: is dirty

<quote>
If a volume's dirty bit is set, this indicates that the file system
may
be in an inconsistent state. The dirty bit can be set because the
volume
is online and has outstanding changes, because changes were made to
the
volume
and the computer shutdown before the changes were committed to disk,
or
because corruption was detected on the volume. If the dirty bit is set
when
the computer restarts, chkdsk runs to verify the consistency of the
volume.

Every time Windows XP starts, Autochk.exe is called by the Kernel to
scan
all volumes to check if the volume dirty bit is set. If the dirty bit
is
set, autochk performs an immediate chkdsk /f on that volume. Chkdsk /f
verifies file system integrity and attempts to fix any problems with
the
volume
<quote>
-----

This will also report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs c:

Hit the Enter key.

C: is not dirty.
-----

If this is not the problem.....

Go here:
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

Read the instructions at the top of the page.
Scroll down to:
82. Disable or Enable Check Disk Upon Boot
Click on Disable.
-----

Additional information...
Chkdsk.exe or Autochk.exe starts when you try to shut down or restart
your computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831426

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In Dean <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
This morning, I turned on my computer and, before I knew it, it was
doing a 5- minute chkdsk, saying my file system is NTFS and the
"volume
is dirty". It deleted three indexes, one of which was in Outlook.exe.
I
have more details of index and file #'s if anyone wants them.

I don't recall that chkdsk is something one expects upon booting.
Though everything seems fine, I am curious why this happened. Is
this
just some sort of automatic maintenance when XP detects a problem
while
trying to boot up?

Thanks!
Dean

Dean,

I would still make sure you have a good backup. I didn't say the hard
drive "was" failing, I said it "could" be failing. You don't want to take
a chance losing your data.

I have been fortunate enough that all but one of the five drives I've had
fail in the last couple years gave me a warning, and it started just like
this.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[Terry]

On 4/10/2007 3:46 PM On a whim, Dean pounded out on the keyboard

Are you saying that you've had five drives fail in two years? You must be
some heavy user, or are you a network admin for a company? And the warning
in four of those cases was an automated chkdsk running upon startup?

Terry, I will do as you say and backup tonight. Though I know the party
line is always backup, all the time, is there any amount of time, relative
to this problem, where I'm probably home free? In other words, if it is Ok
for a week, can I stop being paranoid and backing up daily?

Thanks!
Dean

In two machines. I had three bad IBM's and two WD. And yes, they
started off by chkdsk running on boot, except for one of them that just
died.

For the next week or two, I would at least do incremental backups, so
your newest and modified files will be backed up. Perform a full backup
at least every couple weeks. If you don't have your disk checked any
further, you may be okay.

Also check to see that Windows is using UDMA5 (Device Manager, IDE
Controllers, right click on Primary & Secondary and select Properties).
Mine dropped to PIO when they started having too many errors.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[Rock]

Are you saying that you've had five drives fail in two years? You must be
some heavy user, or are you a network admin for a company? And the
warning in four of those cases was an automated chkdsk running upon
startup?

Terry, I will do as you say and backup tonight. Though I know the party
line is always backup, all the time, is there any amount of time, relative
to this problem, where I'm probably home free? In other words, if it is
Ok for a week, can I stop being paranoid and backing up daily?

<snip>

Nobody can tell you whether you're "probably home free" or not. If you
think about it that question makes no sense. The computer could die in 10
minutes, or the drive could last as long as you use that computer. There
should be in place a backup and recovery procedure that suits your needs.
Data loss, whether it's this drive, or from some other source, is an
inevitability with computers. You have to decide how much you can afford to
loose which will set the time interval between backups. If your data is
business critical then backup on a daily basis. If you can afford to loose
a week's worth of emails, new data and system changes then backup weekly or
do a some combination.

Is your backup a file backup or does it include a system backup? If the
hard drive dies, for example, would you have to reinstall XP clean, then
install apps, then restore data from the backup? Home much time will that
take to do? Can you afford that down time?

Or do you have some sort of system backup in place where the OS and apps
(along with data) can be restored quickly, such as drive imaging?

The point is you should not be instituting any changes in a backup regimen
just to accommodate an issue for the short term. If you have a good backup
strategy in place, then go with it. If it doesn't give you the peace of
mind you need then change it.

For example I use a drive imaging program, currently Acronis True Image
Home, version 10, to image the drives to several external USB connected hard
drives. A full image is created weekly with daily differential images.
This is done automatically through the scheduling capabilities of ATI, so
the only thing I have to do is make sure the correct USB drive is connected.
If there is a problem then I will suffer at most a day's loss of
data/changes. Restoring the images is relatively fast, and restores the
system to it's previous running state.

In your case I would suggest you also download a drive diagnostic utility
from the drive manufacturer's web site. That will create a bootable floppy
or CD. Boot from that and run the diagnostics on the drive to check it's
health. It's not a guarantee for the future, but is a good way to check the
current health of the drive.

 

[Wesley Vogel]

Sorry, I thought that I posted that.

For a look at the chkdsk log.

Open the Event Viewer...
Start | Run | Type: eventvwr | Click OK |
Look in Application | Listed as Information |
Event ID: 1001
Source: Winlogon
[[Description: This includes file system type; drive letter or GUID, and
volume name or serial number to help determine what volume Chkdsk ran
against. Also included is whether Chkdsk ran because a user scheduled it or
because the dirty bit was set.]]

[[When Autochk runs against a volume at boot time it records its output to a
file called Bootex.log in the root of the volume being checked. The Winlogon
service then moves the contents of each Bootex.log file to the Application
Event log.]]

[[This file states whether Chkdsk encountered any errors and, if so,
whether they were fixed.]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

I don't know where to find the chkdsk log, but I did copy down the 3
things that showed up as being deleted - all 3 were indexes and two were
outlook, as I mentioned before.

Yes, you were right. I was typing it into the run box. When I do it
right it says Volume C is NOT dirty. So, I am fine now? I think you are
also saying chkdsk does not fix these errors (though I thought I read
otherwise in one of the links one of the other posters supplied). If so,
I assume that something fixed the errors, assuming these 3 deleted
indexes were "errors".

Thanks, Wes!
Dean

Hi Dean,

If chkdsk ran and the volume is no longer dirty then there is no problem.

Did you type or paste fsutil dirty query C: into a command prompt or
into the Run command? I think you typed it into the Run command. Start
| Run is the Run command.

Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

cmd /K fsutil dirty query C:

Did a command prompt open and stay open? Look a the very first line;
Volume - C: is....

To open a command prompt, click Start, click Run, type: cmd into the
Open box and click OK.

Then type: fsutil dirty query C: and hit your Enter key.
------------

In the chkdsk log if you see something similar to this...

Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

[[Chkdsk.exe just reclaims the unused security descriptors as a
housekeeping
activity, and it does not actually fix any kind of problem. ]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

Thanks, Wes.

I tried both of the commands to see if it was still dirty though, from
what I can figure out, chkdsk is supposed to have fixed it, I think.
Unfortunately, with either command, the screen popped up and disappeared
almost instantaneously, with no time to read it at all. Is there a way
to
alter the command so that the result stays in the command dos prompt box
so I can read it?

Your info plus all the links sent by others was a little more info than
I could process. I can't really tell from reading them if I should
expect I
have any problem now. More generally, I did reboot, after using the
computer for a couple of hours with no problem, and the reboot was fine
too. Is there really any reason to be concerned about the hard disk
being almost dead or anything? Also Outlook seems fine and two of the
three deleted indexes were associated with Outlook The other index
deleted was A0053534.ini, in case that means anything to anyone - a
Google search with
that got zero hits.

Thanks so much.

Dean


Check Disk runs on every boot.

Open a command prompt...
Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs /d

Hit the Enter key.

Chkntfs displays or modifies the checking of disks at boot time.

The /d switch restores the machine to the default behavior; all drives
are checked at boot time and chkdsk is run on those that are dirty.

Autochk.exe is a version of Chkdsk that runs only before Windows XP
starts. Autochk runs in the following situations:

Autochk runs if you try to run Chkdsk on the boot volume.
Autochk runs if Chkdsk cannot gain exclusive use of the volume.
Autochk runs if the volume is flagged as dirty.

This can happen if the drive's dirty bit is set.
When a drive's dirty bit is set, autochk automatically
checks the volume for errors the next time the computer is restarted.

This will report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

fsutil dirty query C:

Hit the Enter key.

Volume C: is not dirty
Volume C: is dirty

<quote>
If a volume's dirty bit is set, this indicates that the file system may
be in an inconsistent state. The dirty bit can be set because the
volume is online and has outstanding changes, because changes were
made to the volume
and the computer shutdown before the changes were committed to disk, or
because corruption was detected on the volume. If the dirty bit is set
when
the computer restarts, chkdsk runs to verify the consistency of the
volume.

Every time Windows XP starts, Autochk.exe is called by the Kernel to
scan
all volumes to check if the volume dirty bit is set. If the dirty bit
is set, autochk performs an immediate chkdsk /f on that volume. Chkdsk
/f verifies file system integrity and attempts to fix any problems
with the volume
<quote>
-----

This will also report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs c:

Hit the Enter key.

C: is not dirty.
-----

If this is not the problem.....

Go here:
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

Read the instructions at the top of the page.
Scroll down to:
82. Disable or Enable Check Disk Upon Boot
Click on Disable.
-----

Additional information...
Chkdsk.exe or Autochk.exe starts when you try to shut down or restart
your computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831426

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In Dean <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
This morning, I turned on my computer and, before I knew it, it was
doing a 5- minute chkdsk, saying my file system is NTFS and the
"volume is dirty". It deleted three indexes, one of which was in
Outlook.exe. I
have more details of index and file #'s if anyone wants them.

I don't recall that chkdsk is something one expects upon booting.
Though everything seems fine, I am curious why this happened. Is this
just some sort of automatic maintenance when XP detects a problem
while trying to boot up?

Thanks!
Dean

 

[Dean]

I'm not sure if it is helpful but here is what was in that event log:
Thanks Wes, and everyone.

Checking file system on C:

The type of the file system is NTFS.

The volume is dirty.

Index entry A0053534.ini of index $I30 in file 0x817a points to unused file
0x13d63.

Deleting index entry A0053534.ini in index $I30 of file 33146.

Index entry OUTLOOK.EXE.mdmp of index $I30 in file 0x13ac3 points to unused
file 0x13ad9.

Deleting index entry OUTLOOK.EXE.mdmp in index $I30 of file 80579.

Index entry OUTLOO~1.MDM of index $I30 in file 0x13ac3 points to unused file
0x13ad9.

Deleting index entry OUTLOO~1.MDM in index $I30 of file 80579.

Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive.

Cleaning up 128 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.

Cleaning up 128 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

Cleaning up 128 unused security descriptors.

CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...

Usn Journal verification completed.

CHKDSK discovered free space marked as allocated in the

master file table (MFT) bitmap.

CHKDSK discovered free space marked as allocated in the volume bitmap.

Windows has made corrections to the file system.

78075899 KB total disk space.

66388512 KB in 105802 files.

34368 KB in 7036 indexes.

0 KB in bad sectors.

199855 KB in use by the system.

65536 KB occupied by the log file.

11453164 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.

19518974 total allocation units on disk.

2863291 allocation units available on disk.

Internal Info:

90 d8 01 00 d1 b8 01 00 e5 44 02 00 00 00 00 00 .........D......

95 1f 00 00 00 00 00 00 a6 04 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................

42 25 86 12 00 00 00 00 86 45 87 89 00 00 00 00 B%.......E......

66 03 ba 18 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 f...............

00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 64 5a 1f b8 00 00 00 00 ........dZ......

b0 ff b1 8e 00 00 00 00 90 38 07 00 4a 9d 01 00 .........8..J...

00 00 00 00 00 80 08 d4 0f 00 00 00 7c 1b 00 00 ............|...

Windows has finished checking your disk.

Please wait while your computer restarts.



For more information, see Help and Support Center at

Sorry, I thought that I posted that.

For a look at the chkdsk log.

Open the Event Viewer...
Start | Run | Type: eventvwr | Click OK |
Look in Application | Listed as Information |
Event ID: 1001
Source: Winlogon
[[Description: This includes file system type; drive letter or GUID, and
volume name or serial number to help determine what volume Chkdsk ran
against. Also included is whether Chkdsk ran because a user scheduled it
or
because the dirty bit was set.]]

[[When Autochk runs against a volume at boot time it records its output to
a
file called Bootex.log in the root of the volume being checked. The
Winlogon
service then moves the contents of each Bootex.log file to the Application
Event log.]]

[[This file states whether Chkdsk encountered any errors and, if so,
whether they were fixed.]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In

I don't know where to find the chkdsk log, but I did copy down the 3
things that showed up as being deleted - all 3 were indexes and two were
outlook, as I mentioned before.

Yes, you were right. I was typing it into the run box. When I do it
right it says Volume C is NOT dirty. So, I am fine now? I think you are
also saying chkdsk does not fix these errors (though I thought I read
otherwise in one of the links one of the other posters supplied). If so,
I assume that something fixed the errors, assuming these 3 deleted
indexes were "errors".

Thanks, Wes!
Dean

Hi Dean,

If chkdsk ran and the volume is no longer dirty then there is no
problem.

Did you type or paste fsutil dirty query C: into a command prompt or
into the Run command? I think you typed it into the Run command. Start
| Run is the Run command.

Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

cmd /K fsutil dirty query C:

Did a command prompt open and stay open? Look a the very first line;
Volume - C: is....

To open a command prompt, click Start, click Run, type: cmd into the
Open box and click OK.

Then type: fsutil dirty query C: and hit your Enter key.
------------

In the chkdsk log if you see something similar to this...

Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9.
Cleaning up 10 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9.

[[Chkdsk.exe just reclaims the unused security descriptors as a
housekeeping
activity, and it does not actually fix any kind of problem. ]]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In Dean <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
Thanks, Wes.

I tried both of the commands to see if it was still dirty though, from
what I can figure out, chkdsk is supposed to have fixed it, I think.
Unfortunately, with either command, the screen popped up and
disappeared
almost instantaneously, with no time to read it at all. Is there a way
to
alter the command so that the result stays in the command dos prompt
box
so I can read it?

Your info plus all the links sent by others was a little more info than
I could process. I can't really tell from reading them if I should
expect I
have any problem now. More generally, I did reboot, after using the
computer for a couple of hours with no problem, and the reboot was fine
too. Is there really any reason to be concerned about the hard disk
being almost dead or anything? Also Outlook seems fine and two of the
three deleted indexes were associated with Outlook The other index
deleted was A0053534.ini, in case that means anything to anyone - a
Google search with
that got zero hits.

Thanks so much.

Dean


Check Disk runs on every boot.

Open a command prompt...
Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs /d

Hit the Enter key.

Chkntfs displays or modifies the checking of disks at boot time.

The /d switch restores the machine to the default behavior; all drives
are checked at boot time and chkdsk is run on those that are dirty.

Autochk.exe is a version of Chkdsk that runs only before Windows XP
starts. Autochk runs in the following situations:

Autochk runs if you try to run Chkdsk on the boot volume.
Autochk runs if Chkdsk cannot gain exclusive use of the volume.
Autochk runs if the volume is flagged as dirty.

This can happen if the drive's dirty bit is set.
When a drive's dirty bit is set, autochk automatically
checks the volume for errors the next time the computer is restarted.

This will report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

fsutil dirty query C:

Hit the Enter key.

Volume C: is not dirty
Volume C: is dirty

<quote>
If a volume's dirty bit is set, this indicates that the file system
may
be in an inconsistent state. The dirty bit can be set because the
volume is online and has outstanding changes, because changes were
made to the volume
and the computer shutdown before the changes were committed to disk,
or
because corruption was detected on the volume. If the dirty bit is set
when
the computer restarts, chkdsk runs to verify the consistency of the
volume.

Every time Windows XP starts, Autochk.exe is called by the Kernel to
scan
all volumes to check if the volume dirty bit is set. If the dirty bit
is set, autochk performs an immediate chkdsk /f on that volume. Chkdsk
/f verifies file system integrity and attempts to fix any problems
with the volume
<quote>
-----

This will also report whether the dirty bit is set.

Start | Run | Type: cmd | Click OK |
Type or paste the following line:

chkntfs c:

Hit the Enter key.

C: is not dirty.
-----

If this is not the problem.....

Go here:
http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/xp_tweaks.htm

Read the instructions at the top of the page.
Scroll down to:
82. Disable or Enable Check Disk Upon Boot
Click on Disable.
-----

Additional information...
Chkdsk.exe or Autochk.exe starts when you try to shut down or restart
your computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831426

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In Dean <[email protected]> hunted and pecked:
This morning, I turned on my computer and, before I knew it, it was
doing a 5- minute chkdsk, saying my file system is NTFS and the
"volume is dirty". It deleted three indexes, one of which was in
Outlook.exe. I
have more details of index and file #'s if anyone wants them.

I don't recall that chkdsk is something one expects upon booting.
Though everything seems fine, I am curious why this happened. Is
this
just some sort of automatic maintenance when XP detects a problem
while trying to boot up?

Thanks!
Dean

 

[Dean]

I assume this info is on the advanced settings tab. If so, on the primary,
for device 0, its Ultra DMA 5, for device 1 it's NA. For secondary, for
device 0, it's Ultra DMA 2, not 5. Similarly, for device 1, it's NA. Is
that a good sign?

 

[Terry]

On 4/10/2007 5:27 PM On a whim, Dean pounded out on the keyboard

I assume this info is on the advanced settings tab. If so, on the primary,
for device 0, its Ultra DMA 5, for device 1 it's NA. For secondary, for
device 0, it's Ultra DMA 2, not 5. Similarly, for device 1, it's NA. Is
that a good sign?

<snip>

Hi Dean,

That sounds correct if your hard drive is primary device 0 and your
CD/DVD is secondary device 0.

Rock made some great points. If your data isn't that important, backup
as often as you feel comfortable. If it can't be replaced, then take
appropriate action to secure it.

Hope everything goes well,

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Terry, I will do as you say and backup tonight. Though I know the
party line is always backup, all the time, is there any amount of
time, relative to this problem, where I'm probably home free?

No. Drives can fail at any time. It is always possible that a hard drive
crash, user error, nearby lightning strike, virus attack, even theft of the
computer, can cause the loss of everything on your drive. As has often been
said, it's not a matter of whether you will have such a problem, but when.

In
other words, if it is Ok for a week, can I stop being paranoid and
backing up daily?

There is no particular interval that everybody should back up on. It depends
entirely on you and your usage patterns. It takes time and effort to backup,
but it also takes time and effort to recreate lost data. If you back up
daily, you should never have to recreate more than one day's worth of last
data. If weekly, there's potentially a lot more to recreate. You should
assess how much pain and trouble you would have if you lost x days of data,
and then choose a backup frequency that doesn't involve more pain and
trouble than that you would have if you had to recreate what was lost.

Some things (photographs, for instance) can never be recreated, and more
frequent backup may be wanted for them.

At one extreme is the professional user who would likely go out of business
if his data was lost. He probably needs to back up at least daily. At the
other extreme is the kid who doesn't use his computer except to play games.
He probably needs no backup at all, since worst case he can easily reinstall
his games.

Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes, but nobody can tell you
where you fall; you need to determine that for yourself.

Should you back up Windows? Should you back up your applications? Most
people will tell you no, since you can always reinstall these easily from
the original media. But I don't think the answer is so clear-cut. Many
people have substantial time and effort invested in customizing Windows and
configuring their apps to work the way they want to. Putting all of that
back the way it was can be a difficult, time-consuming effort. Whether you
should backup up Windows and apps depends, once again, on you.

 

[Dean]

<snip>

Nobody can tell you whether you're "probably home free" or not. If you
think about it that question makes no sense. The computer could die in 10
minutes, or the drive could last as long as you use that computer. There
should be in place a backup and recovery procedure that suits your needs.
Data loss, whether it's this drive, or from some other source, is an
inevitability with computers. You have to decide how much you can afford
to loose which will set the time interval between backups. If your data
is business critical then backup on a daily basis. If you can afford to
loose a week's worth of emails, new data and system changes then backup
weekly or do a some combination.

Is your backup a file backup or does it include a system backup? If the
hard drive dies, for example, would you have to reinstall XP clean, then
install apps, then restore data from the backup? Home much time will that
take to do? Can you afford that down time?

Or do you have some sort of system backup in place where the OS and apps
(along with data) can be restored quickly, such as drive imaging?

The point is you should not be instituting any changes in a backup regimen
just to accommodate an issue for the short term. If you have a good
backup strategy in place, then go with it. If it doesn't give you the
peace of mind you need then change it.

For example I use a drive imaging program, currently Acronis True Image
Home, version 10, to image the drives to several external USB connected
hard drives. A full image is created weekly with daily differential
images. This is done automatically through the scheduling capabilities of
ATI, so the only thing I have to do is make sure the correct USB drive is
connected. If there is a problem then I will suffer at most a day's loss
of data/changes. Restoring the images is relatively fast, and restores
the system to it's previous running state.

In your case I would suggest you also download a drive diagnostic utility
from the drive manufacturer's web site. That will create a bootable
floppy or CD. Boot from that and run the diagnostics on the drive to
check it's health. It's not a guarantee for the future, but is a good way
to check the current health of the drive.

Though it would be a pain, I don't fear temporarily losing applications and
settings and the like, just data files. It seems that a clean
reinstallation might even be a good idea, once in a while - at least that's
what the parasite folks often suggest. So, I back up Outlook and data
files, probably every 3 months, just as much in case of theft before I go on
vacation, as in case of crash. This is not very frequent, I know. I do
typically e-mail a copy of my data files to some client or another so that
lessens the risk. I think I should go to an incremental once a week
backup. This is a good time to force the issue!

Regarding the diagnostic utility, I'm not sure where to get that. I have a
Dell computer. Under properties and what looks to be the C drive
(ST380011A) under manufacturer, it just says "standard disk drive". It's
past warranty so I doubt Dell will be of any help. Is this utility on a CD
that should have come with the computer when it was new? I seem to have a
basic rescue boot floppy disk from way back when I bought this computer that
seems to be created by Norton AV, an AV system I no longer use. Is that all
I need to run this test? If so, can you give me a bit more detail, please?

Thanks
Dean

 

[Uncle Grumpy]

So, I back up Outlook and data
files, probably every 3 months, just as much in case of theft before I go on
vacation, as in case of crash.

Every three months?

I do mine nightly by imaging my system to an external drive.

And I do it weekly by cloning my main drive to another internal
drive.

You're setting yourself up for a disaster.

 

[Terry]

On 4/10/2007 5:56 PM On a whim, Dean pounded out on the keyboard

Though it would be a pain, I don't fear temporarily losing applications and
settings and the like, just data files. It seems that a clean
reinstallation might even be a good idea, once in a while - at least that's
what the parasite folks often suggest. So, I back up Outlook and data
files, probably every 3 months, just as much in case of theft before I go on
vacation, as in case of crash. This is not very frequent, I know. I do
typically e-mail a copy of my data files to some client or another so that
lessens the risk. I think I should go to an incremental once a week
backup. This is a good time to force the issue!

Regarding the diagnostic utility, I'm not sure where to get that. I have a
Dell computer. Under properties and what looks to be the C drive
(ST380011A) under manufacturer, it just says "standard disk drive". It's
past warranty so I doubt Dell will be of any help. Is this utility on a CD
that should have come with the computer when it was new? I seem to have a
basic rescue boot floppy disk from way back when I bought this computer that
seems to be created by Norton AV, an AV system I no longer use. Is that all
I need to run this test? If so, can you give me a bit more detail, please?

Thanks
Dean

A hard drive with ST in the beginning is most likely a Seagate. I would
go to their site and download their disk utility.

--
Terry

***Reply Note***
Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.