Caviar drive - running too hot?

  • Thread starter Randy Brick MacKenna
  • Start date
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

Hi, I just put two of these in my PC, running in RAID 1 mode:

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard
Drive

The description at the place I bought them (newegg) touted how cool
they ran. That's one of the reasons I went with this model drive.

My system doesn't have the right probes to tell me the exact temp they
are running at, but when I put my digital weather thermometer probe
against the plug end of either drive, it shows 120 F (49 C). So, I
imagine that the inside of the drive could be as high as 140 F (60 C).

By hard drive standards, are these temperatures normal or is something
wrong here? If something is wrong, is it fixable or should I just try
to return the drives and get something else?

Thanks for any insight or help anyone can give me about this problem.

-Randy
 
K

kony

Hi, I just put two of these in my PC, running in RAID 1 mode:

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard
Drive

The description at the place I bought them (newegg) touted how cool
they ran. That's one of the reasons I went with this model drive.

My system doesn't have the right probes to tell me the exact temp they
are running at, but when I put my digital weather thermometer probe
against the plug end of either drive, it shows 120 F (49 C). So, I
imagine that the inside of the drive could be as high as 140 F (60 C).

By hard drive standards, are these temperatures normal or is something
wrong here? If something is wrong, is it fixable or should I just try
to return the drives and get something else?

Thanks for any insight or help anyone can give me about this problem.

-Randy


That does seem a bit warm (assuming the thermometer is
accurate), most likely your case doesn't have enough airflow
through the drive rack. If that's the problem, getting
different drives isn't going to help much if at all.
 
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

That does seem a bit warm (assuming the thermometer is
accurate), most likely your case doesn't have enough airflow
through the drive rack. If that's the problem, getting
different drives isn't going to help much if at all.

Thanks...yup, the thermometer is very accurate. And, just to be sure
I opened the side of the computer case up, and actually pulled the
drive rack out completely and set it outside the computer. Either
way, when it is inside the computer (with a cooling fan blowing toward
it), or when the drives are outside the computer with good free
airflow around them -- I am getting above 112 F (44 C) at the hard
drive housing. With the cover on the computer I'm getting 112 F.

The cpu in this system runs at a cool 97 F (36 C) -- so I don't think
I'm having cooling issues within the case.

I'm wondering if anyone has WD drives, and they happen to know what
temp they are running at. For drives that are marketed as "cool
running" I think these are out of whack.

-Randy
 
R

Rookie

I'm wondering if anyone has WD drives, and they happen to know what
temp they are running at. For drives that are marketed as "cool
running" I think these are out of whack.

-Randy

Don't know about the specific model, but in general WD drives run cool, and
the re2 models actually cooler.

Anyway, install speedfan and you will have all the temperatures you need.
 
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

Don't know about the specific model, but in general WD drives run cool, and
the re2 models actually cooler.

Anyway, install speedfan and you will have all the temperatures you need.

Thanks...yeah IIRC, speedfan doesn't deal with RAID all that well.

Anyone reading this, if the have a WD caviar 7200rpm SATA drive in
their system I'd love to have a reference from you as to what your
drive temp is. Passive cooling, preferably.

Thanks,
Randy
 
R

Rookie

Thanks...yeah IIRC, speedfan doesn't deal with RAID all that well.

Anyone reading this, if the have a WD caviar 7200rpm SATA drive in
their system I'd love to have a reference from you as to what your
drive temp is. Passive cooling, preferably.

Thanks,
Randy

Speedfan has been frequently updated, and the latest beta seems quite
improved. Give it a try.
 
S

Sjouke Burry

Rookie said:
Speedfan has been frequently updated, and the latest beta seems quite
improved. Give it a try.
Looks fine , thanks! (and no i am not randy)
 
K

kony

Thanks...yup, the thermometer is very accurate. And, just to be sure
I opened the side of the computer case up, and actually pulled the
drive rack out completely and set it outside the computer. Either
way, when it is inside the computer (with a cooling fan blowing toward
it), or when the drives are outside the computer with good free
airflow around them -- I am getting above 112 F (44 C) at the hard
drive housing. With the cover on the computer I'm getting 112 F.

No, outside a computer is not "good free airflow", that is
the opposite. You want ample fan-forced airflow in the
front intake of a computer and then through the drive rack.

I still think your case has insufficient airflow. Having a
fan doesn't mean anything, it has to move sufficient airflow
past the drive which also means:

1) Case front bezel has a fair number and area of opening.
2) Case fan mount doesn't have a lot of obstructions around
it like a metal wall with only little holes or slots stamped
out.

3) The airflow the fan produces doesn't just blow in the
direction of the drive, rather the majority flows through
the drive rack across the top and bottom surfaces of the
drive.

4) The case exhaust is also optimal, as what comes in has
to exit the case at the same rate.

It may be that some of these factors are present, and you
have not mentioned what your ambient (room) temp is unless
I've overlooked it, but there is still every reason to think
the drive runs hot because it is improperly cooled.


The cpu in this system runs at a cool 97 F (36 C) -- so I don't think
I'm having cooling issues within the case.

One has nothing to do with the other. A CPU has it's own
heatsink and fan and has a lower power idle state.

I'm wondering if anyone has WD drives, and they happen to know what
temp they are running at. For drives that are marketed as "cool
running" I think these are out of whack.

Again I suggest you need to divert from this tangent and
focus on the time-tested proper hard drive cooling
configuration. Unfortunately a computer case can't just be
randomly picked and used under the assumption it is ok,
there are far too many poorly designed cases out there.

However, there is already another factor to consider in that
we cannot just randomly assumed a drive is "X" degrees
hotter inside because of the rear temp reading. The frame
is aluminum and transmits heat fairly well, particularly so
right next to the circuit board. While 60C would be on the
hot side, the important parts might be closer to 50C which
is to be expected in a case with poor airflow, or sitting
out on a desk without any fan-forced airflow on them.
 
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

No, outside a computer is not "good free airflow", that is
the opposite. You want ample fan-forced airflow in the
front intake of a computer and then through the drive rack.

I still think your case has insufficient airflow. Having a
fan doesn't mean anything, it has to move sufficient airflow
past the drive which also means:

1) Case front bezel has a fair number and area of opening.
2) Case fan mount doesn't have a lot of obstructions around
it like a metal wall with only little holes or slots stamped
out.

3) The airflow the fan produces doesn't just blow in the
direction of the drive, rather the majority flows through
the drive rack across the top and bottom surfaces of the
drive.

4) The case exhaust is also optimal, as what comes in has
to exit the case at the same rate.

It may be that some of these factors are present, and you
have not mentioned what your ambient (room) temp is unless
I've overlooked it, but there is still every reason to think
the drive runs hot because it is improperly cooled.




One has nothing to do with the other. A CPU has it's own
heatsink and fan and has a lower power idle state.




Again I suggest you need to divert from this tangent and
focus on the time-tested proper hard drive cooling
configuration. Unfortunately a computer case can't just be
randomly picked and used under the assumption it is ok,
there are far too many poorly designed cases out there.

However, there is already another factor to consider in that
we cannot just randomly assumed a drive is "X" degrees
hotter inside because of the rear temp reading. The frame
is aluminum and transmits heat fairly well, particularly so
right next to the circuit board. While 60C would be on the
hot side, the important parts might be closer to 50C which
is to be expected in a case with poor airflow, or sitting
out on a desk without any fan-forced airflow on them.

Thanks! Excellent points. You are correct about the case -- this is
an old Celeron 2.2Ghz eMachines computer that I rescued from someone
who spilled a Coke into it, then decided to wash out with a garden
hose. After thorough drying, the machine runs just fine. I put the
new WD drives in it because I'm setting it up as a Linux server in my
home.

So, the case is probably not designed for these newer drives. Late
last night I added a high-quality fan that I had, by wire-tying it
directly to the drive cage. Now, with the cover on the machine the
drives are 97 F (36 C) -- which is fine. The ambient temp of this
room (my basement) is always between 60 and 75 F, so that's not a
problem.

I suppose I can live with this -- or upgrade to a better case -- but
even so, I am still very surprised that a hard drive that is marketed
as "running very cool" can only achieve that distinction when it is
actively cooled.

Maybe they run cooler than other drives with similar active
cooling...I'm not sure. Maybe I was hypnotized by some marketing hype
(although Tom's hardware guide was quoted, which I thought was fairly
unbiased).

If the consensus is that these temps are perfectly normal, and
"coolness" can only be achieved through active cooling (whether by
direct impinging on the drives, or good case design), then I will just
live with it.

Thanks,
Randy
 
K

kony

Thanks! Excellent points. You are correct about the case -- this is
an old Celeron 2.2Ghz eMachines computer that I rescued from someone
who spilled a Coke into it, then decided to wash out with a garden
hose. After thorough drying, the machine runs just fine. I put the
new WD drives in it because I'm setting it up as a Linux server in my
home.


Many OEM cases are unfortunately, only set up to cool one
drive well.

So, the case is probably not designed for these newer drives. Late
last night I added a high-quality fan that I had, by wire-tying it
directly to the drive cage. Now, with the cover on the machine the
drives are 97 F (36 C) -- which is fine. The ambient temp of this
room (my basement) is always between 60 and 75 F, so that's not a
problem.

I suppose I can live with this -- or upgrade to a better case -- but
even so, I am still very surprised that a hard drive that is marketed
as "running very cool" can only achieve that distinction when it is
actively cooled.

If we could get rid of marketing departments, in some ways
it would help. They may make a claim justified by merely
beating some other products in a particular area, and IIRC,
some WD drives, likely yours also, do run a bit cooler than
others but not so much that it's a good idea to ignore the
same cooling measures.


Maybe they run cooler than other drives with similar active
cooling...I'm not sure. Maybe I was hypnotized by some marketing hype
(although Tom's hardware guide was quoted, which I thought was fairly
unbiased).

Tom's Hardware is a fairly biased site in some instances,
but in this case they may have made a reasonable comparison,
if they have measured drive temp with a thermometer instead
of just an onboard sensor reading (which is only a spot-temp
of one component on the drive in some cases).

If the consensus is that these temps are perfectly normal, and
"coolness" can only be achieved through active cooling (whether by
direct impinging on the drives, or good case design), then I will just
live with it.


Yes I would call them normal, thoguh a bit higher than I'd
have expected when the ambient is as low as the 60F figure
you mentioned.
 
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

Many OEM cases are unfortunately, only set up to cool one
drive well.



If we could get rid of marketing departments, in some ways
it would help. They may make a claim justified by merely
beating some other products in a particular area, and IIRC,
some WD drives, likely yours also, do run a bit cooler than
others but not so much that it's a good idea to ignore the
same cooling measures.




Tom's Hardware is a fairly biased site in some instances,
but in this case they may have made a reasonable comparison,
if they have measured drive temp with a thermometer instead
of just an onboard sensor reading (which is only a spot-temp
of one component on the drive in some cases).




Yes I would call them normal, thoguh a bit higher than I'd
have expected when the ambient is as low as the 60F figure
you mentioned.

Ah, no -- last night it was a 75F night in the basement.

I guess I'm okay now with my active cooling, until I get a better case
for this system. Gosh, I have four fans now -- PS fan, CPU fan, HD
fan, and case induction fan.

This thing is now really more of a computerized set of fans, than a
fanned computer ;-)

-Randy
 
M

~misfit~

Randy said:
I suppose I can live with this -- or upgrade to a better case -- but
even so, I am still very surprised that a hard drive that is marketed
as "running very cool" can only achieve that distinction when it is
actively cooled.

Seriously? They have motors in them that spin platters up to, and maintain
at, at seven thousand two hundred revolutions per minute. Do you think that
the heat produced from this motor (and the read/write heads actuator
mechanism) is simply going to slip through the fabric of the universe into
another dimension? They use around 20 watts. Imagine a 20 watt bulb in a
closed box, (or a corner of a box without sufficient air movement). How hot
do you think it would get? (Ultimately, for the purposes of this analogy at
least, all energy is given off as heat.) It doesn't matter much if a bulb
gets hot. Not so with a HDD though.
Maybe they run cooler than other drives with similar active
cooling...I'm not sure. Maybe I was hypnotized by some marketing hype
(although Tom's hardware guide was quoted, which I thought was fairly
unbiased).

If the consensus is that these temps are perfectly normal, and
"coolness" can only be achieved through active cooling (whether by
direct impinging on the drives, or good case design), then I will just
live with it.

Live with it. Modern drives require active cooling of some sort. Samsung
Spinpoint drives are supposed to be cool too but I have one here as a
paper-weight. It was mounted in a "dead zone" in a client's case in a warm
room and failed very quickly. No good trying for a warranty claim on it as
the S.M.A.R.T. system records the highest temp it's been operated at and, if
it's not within manufacturer specs, no warranty.

All my machines HDDs have fans (usually within 10mm of them) forcing air
directly over both top and bottom surfaces. New drives in old cases (which
were designed with 5,400rpm drives in mind) is the biggest cause of drive
failure in my personal experience. The problem is magnified considerably
when more than one drive is used in such a case as most cases from that era
only had room for a second drive (if indeed they had it) as an
after-thought.

It might not seem like a big step, 5,400rpm to 7,200rpm. However, IME, the
heat output more than doubles. Often the heat from a 5,400rpm drive could be
removed simply by making sure there is good contact with the case and
secured by four tight screws. The case can then 'sink' the drive heat. That
doesn't work with 7,200rpm drives by a long shot.
 
K

kony

I guess I'm okay now with my active cooling, until I get a better case
for this system. Gosh, I have four fans now -- PS fan, CPU fan, HD
fan, and case induction fan.

This thing is now really more of a computerized set of fans, than a
fanned computer ;-)


The most common case fan arrangment now follows AMD &
Intel's recommendations (for ATX opposed to BTX), including
a rear case exhaust fan. When the OEMs have this
arrangement they're often able to do away with the CPU fan
by using a duct to cause the air to flow through the CPU
heatsink just before that exhaust fan. By having a
reasonably sized passive front intake only in front of the
drive rack, they can cool at least one hard drive passively.
It is possible to cool more than one passively but often
they rotate the drive by 90' to allow the case to be
shorter.
 
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

Seriously? They have motors in them that spin platters up to, and maintain
at, at seven thousand two hundred revolutions per minute. Do you think that
the heat produced from this motor (and the read/write heads actuator
mechanism) is simply going to slip through the fabric of the universe into
another dimension? They use around 20 watts. Imagine a 20 watt bulb in a
closed box, (or a corner of a box without sufficient air movement). Howhot
do you think it would get? (Ultimately, for the purposes of this analogy at
least, all energy is given off as heat.) It doesn't matter much if a bulb
getshot. Not so with a HDD though.

Yup, I agree now that active cooling is the norm for these
drives...thanks to everyone here for the education on that point.

But, are we sure the motor is the primary source of heat in these
drives? The amount of energy required to keep the platters spinning
at constant rotational velocity, once the target velocity has been
reached, should be minimal. Changes in speed (e.g. spin up or spin
down) take energy and produce heat -- but physics tells you that once
a platter is at speed, the amount of energy to keep it at that speed
is hardly anything. It's just got to overcome gravity and friction.
So, I'd bet that keeping a platter spinning at 7200 RPM consumes
barely measurably more energy than one at 5400 RPM.

I thought the main source of heat in these drives was the (ever
denser) packaging of the electronics within them...maybe I'm wrong and
it is the motor...but I can't picture it...

-Randy
 
K

kony

Yup, I agree now that active cooling is the norm for these
drives...thanks to everyone here for the education on that point.

But, are we sure the motor is the primary source of heat in these
drives?

It is definitely one source, though others include the
friction of platters spinning at thousands of RPM, the
actuator coil, and the active electronics on the circuit
board.
The amount of energy required to keep the platters spinning
at constant rotational velocity, once the target velocity has been
reached, should be minimal.

Depends on your definition of minimal. Certainly it takes
less energy that spinning up from a cold start, but consider
that the motor is 'sunk to the drive frame and it doesn't
take much heat to warm a hunk of metal by 20C.

Changes in speed (e.g. spin up or spin
down) take energy and produce heat -- but physics tells you that once
a platter is at speed, the amount of energy to keep it at that speed
is hardly anything.

You can google for drive power consumptions, which may be
lower than that stated on a label or spec sheet (as those
may be peak current or at least in the drives most active
seeking & I/O state) but are still going to be a few hundred
mA on the 5V & 12V rails. Suppose only 5W total and this is
still enough to heat a drive fame by 20C.


It's just got to overcome gravity and friction.
So, I'd bet that keeping a platter spinning at 7200 RPM consumes
barely measurably more energy than one at 5400 RPM.

Perhaps, but there are too many variables to so easily
conclude this as any given 5K4 RPM drive doesn't necessarily
have all parts in common with a different 7K2 RPM drive.
Some 5K4 RPM drives also warm up a fair amount and it is
prudent to ensure they receive *enough* airflow too.


I thought the main source of heat in these drives was the (ever
denser) packaging of the electronics within them...maybe I'm wrong and
it is the motor...but I can't picture it...

Why would it have to be one or the other instead of both
(producing significant heat)? A drive frame just doesn't
have a large surface area and is smooth like a metal
container for the parts instead of a maximal heatsink area
as on a purpose-designed heatsink. They could make drive
frames with larger heatsink area, but then it would require
a larger mounting bay or smaller platters.

If you took a CPU producing 5W of heat and put a heatsink on
with similar surface area and minimal airflow through it,
that 'sink would also typically rise by more than 10C over
the ambient temp. Power has to go somewhere, you have a
(typically) 300W or larger PSU and though the system might
only use 50-75% of that potential, it's going to turn into
heat among all consumers. We might as well say it would be
nice of a CPU or PSU didn't produce enough heat to need
active or induced-passive airflow, but performance drives
the industry.

As for motor vs electronics, why do we need to know this?
It's not as though you can effectively separate one from the
other and use the drive. Wishing that computer parts used
far less power than they do is a bit futile, unless you're
willing to either pay significantly more for parts optimized
towards power conservation, and/or lower performance. The
industry is typically focused on performance more than power
and cooling requirements, and of course to have a reasonable
reliability while still staying cost-competitive with other
similar products.

Since a typical computer target application includes a case
with rear exhaust fans, and the ideal is to target OEM
sales, the drive manufacturer needs not design all drives
towards least heat, only towards a manageable level of heat
in the target environment. If the system OEM had to choose
between a drive that costs 40% more but produces less heat,
when the system was designed with enough cooling margin to
accomdate the lower priced drive, then when all else is
equal they'd choose the lower cost drive and so these sales
determine which parameter is more important in selling
drives.
 
M

~misfit~

Randy said:
Yup, I agree now that active cooling is the norm for these
drives...thanks to everyone here for the education on that point.

But, are we sure the motor is the primary source of heat in these
drives? The amount of energy required to keep the platters spinning
at constant rotational velocity, once the target velocity has been
reached, should be minimal. Changes in speed (e.g. spin up or spin
down) take energy and produce heat -- but physics tells you that once
a platter is at speed, the amount of energy to keep it at that speed
is hardly anything.

I studied physics. We never used the term "hardly anything". If there was
absolutely no friction from the bearings or drag from the air inside the
enclosure then you could be stating the truth. However, that isn't the case.
Perhaps you're familair with why cars, after a certain velocity, have to
increase horsepower by a factor of 10 to increase speed by a factor of 0.1?
The same holds true for HDDs. Even though platters are fairly "slippery" as
far as aerodynamics go, they still require ever-increasing amounts of power
to maintain speed as target velocity increases. They're not running in a
vacuum.

Then there's the friction from the bearings to overcome..
It's just got to overcome gravity and friction.
So, I'd bet that keeping a platter spinning at 7200 RPM consumes
barely measurably more energy than one at 5400 RPM.

I'll take that bet.
I thought the main source of heat in these drives was the (ever
denser) packaging of the electronics within them...maybe I'm wrong and
it is the motor...but I can't picture it...

Picture it. It's the motor overcoming the friction and drag.

The electronics are subject to Moore's law in a peripheral way. The
electronics on-board the drive are being made using a smaller fabrication
process in much the same way as CPUs are. This results in less power
consumption/heat output and better efficiency. The only part of the PCB that
could buck this trend is the on-board cache, that could put a bit more heat
back into the equation. Not so much though.

An anecdote for you: Last week I was pulling down a couple old servers and
testing the parts to sell on my country's equivalent of eBay. I had a bunch
of 9.1 and 18GB drives to "verify". These are 10,000rpm SCSI drives. Here's
a pic of the end of one of them:

http://test.internet-webmaster.de/upload/1189645693.jpg

You may notice the fins.

The servers in question (Dell PowerEdge and IBM Netfinity) have freakin'
*HUGE* fans and air-flow around the drives. I found out why when I left an
18GB drive verifying, sitting on a book, and wandered off to read for a
while. When I got back to the machine about an hour later the drive was
almost too hot to pick up. (I won't be selling that one, although it still
seems to work fine.) It had finished verifying ages ago, the heat generated
was simply from the motor naimtaining the platter speed. There was no
read/write activity in that time.
 
M

~misfit~

kony said:
It is definitely one source, though others include the
friction of platters spinning at thousands of RPM, the
actuator coil, and the active electronics on the circuit
board.


Depends on your definition of minimal. Certainly it takes
less energy that spinning up from a cold start, but consider
that the motor is 'sunk to the drive frame and it doesn't
take much heat to warm a hunk of metal by 20C.



You can google for drive power consumptions, which may be
lower than that stated on a label or spec sheet (as those
may be peak current or at least in the drives most active
seeking & I/O state) but are still going to be a few hundred
mA on the 5V & 12V rails. Suppose only 5W total and this is
still enough to heat a drive fame by 20C.




Perhaps, but there are too many variables to so easily
conclude this as any given 5K4 RPM drive doesn't necessarily
have all parts in common with a different 7K2 RPM drive.
Some 5K4 RPM drives also warm up a fair amount and it is
prudent to ensure they receive *enough* airflow too.




Why would it have to be one or the other instead of both
(producing significant heat)? A drive frame just doesn't
have a large surface area and is smooth like a metal
container for the parts instead of a maximal heatsink area
as on a purpose-designed heatsink. They could make drive
frames with larger heatsink area, but then it would require
a larger mounting bay or smaller platters.

If you took a CPU producing 5W of heat and put a heatsink on
with similar surface area and minimal airflow through it,
that 'sink would also typically rise by more than 10C over
the ambient temp. Power has to go somewhere, you have a
(typically) 300W or larger PSU and though the system might
only use 50-75% of that potential, it's going to turn into
heat among all consumers. We might as well say it would be
nice of a CPU or PSU didn't produce enough heat to need
active or induced-passive airflow, but performance drives
the industry.

As for motor vs electronics, why do we need to know this?
It's not as though you can effectively separate one from the
other and use the drive. Wishing that computer parts used
far less power than they do is a bit futile, unless you're
willing to either pay significantly more for parts optimized
towards power conservation, and/or lower performance. The
industry is typically focused on performance more than power
and cooling requirements, and of course to have a reasonable
reliability while still staying cost-competitive with other
similar products.

Since a typical computer target application includes a case
with rear exhaust fans, and the ideal is to target OEM
sales, the drive manufacturer needs not design all drives
towards least heat, only towards a manageable level of heat
in the target environment. If the system OEM had to choose
between a drive that costs 40% more but produces less heat,
when the system was designed with enough cooling margin to
accomdate the lower priced drive, then when all else is
equal they'd choose the lower cost drive and so these sales
determine which parameter is more important in selling
drives.

An interesting fact for you Kony. A friend bought an end-of-line Compaq just
over a year ago. A Socket A Sempron. The first thing to do with a machine
like that, as you know, is to add some RAM. I opened it up and noticed that
the HDD was sitting right up under the floppy, not in the airflow at all.
There is a 90mm exhaust fan and vents in the lower front of the case. I
would have expected to see the drive mounted down there.

On closer inspection of the drive I saw that it was a 5,300rpm drive! An
80GB 5,300rpm drive? I didn't know they made them. Every drive I've bought
in the last century, going back to a 20GB Maxtor, has been 7,200rpm.
(Discounting laptop drives of course.)

Just thought it curious. The PC in question, even with extra RAM, is slow as
a wet week. It really needs that drive replacing. However, that would
require fabricating a new drive cage in airflow. I might get around to it
one day.

Cheers,
 
M

~misfit~

Randy said:
Yup, I agree now that active cooling is the norm for these
drives...thanks to everyone here for the education on that point.

But, are we sure the motor is the primary source of heat in these
drives? The amount of energy required to keep the platters spinning
at constant rotational velocity, once the target velocity has been
reached, should be minimal. Changes in speed (e.g. spin up or spin
down) take energy and produce heat -- but physics tells you that once
a platter is at speed, the amount of energy to keep it at that speed
is hardly anything. It's just got to overcome gravity and friction.
So, I'd bet that keeping a platter spinning at 7200 RPM consumes
barely measurably more energy than one at 5400 RPM.

I thought the main source of heat in these drives was the (ever
denser) packaging of the electronics within them...maybe I'm wrong and
it is the motor...but I can't picture it...

Randy, forgot to mention in my other reply to you. If HDDs spinning at
5,300rpm and 7,200rpm used similar amounts of energy (and therefore gave off
similar amounts of heat) why is it that (by far the majority of) laptop
drives are still either 4,200rpm or 5,300rpm? Maybe you know something that
laptop manufacturers don't? The difference in response times between 7,200
and 5,300 drives is vey noticable. If there was a "barely measurable"
difference in energy consumption surely they'd want their laptops to be
significantly more responsive?

Cheers,
 
R

Randy Brick MacKenna

Perhaps you're familair with why cars, after a certain velocity, have to
increase horsepower by a factor of 10 to increase speed by a factor of 0.1?
The same holds true for HDDs. Even though platters are fairly "slippery" as
far as aerodynamics go, they still require ever-increasing amounts of power
to maintain speed as target velocity increases. They're not running in a
vacuum.

Okay, I stand corrected, thanks. I guess I was remembering 'object in
motion tends to stay in motion', and didn't realize there'd be that
kind of magnitude of delta in energy consumption for a platter
spinning at (steady state) 5400 versus 7200rpm. I thought the
maintenance energy to keep them 'at speed' would be similar. The drag
on the platter from the surrounding air, and the friction of the
spindle bearings must be the significant pieces that I was ignoring
(!)

Thanks for the education...For other folks who commented -- I wasn't
trying to solve a design problem here -- just find this fascinating
and wanted to understand the underlying drivers.

-Randy
 
K

kony

An interesting fact for you Kony. A friend bought an end-of-line Compaq just
over a year ago. A Socket A Sempron. The first thing to do with a machine
like that, as you know, is to add some RAM. I opened it up and noticed that
the HDD was sitting right up under the floppy, not in the airflow at all.
There is a 90mm exhaust fan and vents in the lower front of the case. I
would have expected to see the drive mounted down there.

On closer inspection of the drive I saw that it was a 5,300rpm drive! An
80GB 5,300rpm drive? I didn't know they made them. Every drive I've bought
in the last century, going back to a 20GB Maxtor, has been 7,200rpm.
(Discounting laptop drives of course.)

Just thought it curious. The PC in question, even with extra RAM, is slow as
a wet week. It really needs that drive replacing. However, that would
require fabricating a new drive cage in airflow. I might get around to it
one day.


I can't claim to have seen *all* Compaq models, but of those
I've seen that weren't small form factor or under-monitor
desktop type, they typically had a vertical screw-on
carrier, and a couple slits in the bottom of the case (or
holes tapped for screws).

I'm wondering if the drive below the floppy was something
the owner (or another person, later) did. What kind of case
was it? It's unlikely I have all Compaq cases from that
era, but I do have several.
 

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