Can't access PC on home network

[Lester Lane]

Hi all. Before I go mad can someone please provide me a list of things
that must be config'd on all PCs on a home network? I have a belkin
firewall/router that is the connection to the internet and then 2 pcs
and a laptop. In windows under My Network Places produces a tree with
the domain but nothing beyond that. Gateway addresses point to the
router and the DNS is the ISP's. I have IPX, TCP running too - what
more is there to do please? Oh - running XP Home and Pro editions.

I have a feeling it may be the DNS or WINS config. I don't run WINS
as I do not have a PC that acts as a server. and DNS is external -
again if no server how can I solve internal DNS? Thanks.

 

[Malke]

Hi all. Before I go mad can someone please provide me a list of things
that must be config'd on all PCs on a home network? I have a belkin
firewall/router that is the connection to the internet and then 2 pcs
and a laptop. In windows under My Network Places produces a tree with
the domain but nothing beyond that. Gateway addresses point to the
router and the DNS is the ISP's. I have IPX, TCP running too - what
more is there to do please? Oh - running XP Home and Pro editions.

I have a feeling it may be the DNS or WINS config. I don't run WINS
as I do not have a PC that acts as a server. and DNS is external -
again if no server how can I solve internal DNS? Thanks.

Remove all network protocols such as IPX. You should only have TCP/IP
installed. In the TCP/IP Properties, set the IP address/DNS assignments
to Automatic.

Here are general network troubleshooting steps. Not everything may be
applicable to your situation, so just take the bits that are. It may
look daunting, but if you follow the steps at the links and suggestions
below systematically and calmly, you will have no difficulty in setting
up your sharing.

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall; or 2) inadvertently running two
firewalls such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party
firewall; and/or 3) not having identical user accounts and passwords on
all Workgroup machines; 4) trying to create shares where the operating
system does not permit it. Read through the general networking tips
below and if you still are having difficulties, MVP Hans-Georg Michna
has an excellent small network troubleshooter here:

http://winhlp.com/wxnet.htm

Taking the time to go through his troubleshooter will usually pinpoint
the source of the problem(s).

Here are some general networking tips for home/small networks:

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
(LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network
Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those machines.The only
"gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you
aren't running a third-party firewall or have an antivirus with
"Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a
firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually
configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
subnet. Do not run more than one firewall.

B. With earlier Microsoft operating systems, the name of the Workgroup
didn't matter. Apparently it does with Vista, so put all computers in
the same Workgroup. This is done from the System applet in Control
Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create identical user accounts and passwords on all machines. If you
wish a machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular
user's account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at
this link work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -
http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center:

1. If you need Pro's ability to set fine-grained permissions, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab) and create identical user
accounts/passwords on all computers.

2. If you don't care about using Pro's advanced features, leave the
Simple File Sharing enabled.

Simple File Sharing means that Guest (network) is enabled. This means
that anyone without a user account on the target system can use its
resources. This is a security hole but only you can decide if it matters
in your situation.

I think it is a good idea to create the identical user
accounts/passwords in any case when Vista machines are involved and it
isn't an onerous task with home/small networks.

E. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
home directories (My Documents) or Program Files, but you can share
folders inside those directories. A better choice is to simply use the
Shared Documents folder.


Malke

 

[Jack \(MVP-Networking\).]

Hi
May be this can Help, http://www.ezlan.net/debug.html
Jack (MVP-Networking).

 

[Lester Lane]

Remove all network protocols such as IPX. You should only have TCP/IP
installed. In the TCP/IP Properties, set the IP address/DNS assignments
to Automatic.

Here are general network troubleshooting steps. Not everything may be
applicable to your situation, so just take the bits that are. It may
look daunting, but if you follow the steps at the links and suggestions
below systematically and calmly, you will have no difficulty in setting
up your sharing.

For XP, start by running the Network Setup Wizard on all machines (see
caveat in Item A below).

Problems sharing files between computers on a network are generally
caused by 1) a misconfigured firewall; or 2) inadvertently running two
firewalls such as the built-in Windows Firewall and a third-party
firewall; and/or 3) not having identical user accounts and passwords on
all Workgroup machines; 4) trying to create shares where the operating
system does not permit it. Read through the general networking tips
below and if you still are having difficulties, MVP Hans-Georg Michna
has an excellent small network troubleshooter here:

http://winhlp.com/wxnet.htm

Taking the time to go through his troubleshooter will usually pinpoint
the source of the problem(s).

Here are some general networking tips for home/small networks:

A. Configure firewalls on all machines to allow the Local Area Network
(LAN) traffic as trusted. With Windows Firewall, this means allowing
File/Printer Sharing on the Exceptions tab. Normally running the Network
Setup Wizard on XP will take care of this for those machines.The only
"gotcha" is that this will turn on the XPSP2 Windows Firewall. If you
aren't running a third-party firewall or have an antivirus with
"Internet Worm Protection" (like Norton 2006/07) which acts as a
firewall, then you're fine. With third-party firewalls, I usually
configure the LAN allowance with an IP range. Ex. would be
192.168.1.0-192.168.1.254. Obviously you would substitute your correct
subnet. Do not run more than one firewall.

B. With earlier Microsoft operating systems, the name of the Workgroup
didn't matter. Apparently it does with Vista, so put all computers in
the same Workgroup. This is done from the System applet in Control
Panel, Computer Name tab.

C. Create identical user accounts and passwords on all machines. If you
wish a machine to boot directly to the Desktop (into one particular
user's account) for convenience, you can do this. The instructions at
this link work for both XP and Vista:

Configure Windows to Automatically Login (MVP Ramesh) -http://windowsxp.mvps.org/Autologon.htm

D. If one or more of the computers is XP Pro or Media Center:

1. If you need Pro's ability to set fine-grained permissions, turn off
Simple File Sharing (Folder Options>View tab) and create identical user
accounts/passwords on all computers.

2. If you don't care about using Pro's advanced features, leave the
Simple File Sharing enabled.

Simple File Sharing means that Guest (network) is enabled. This means
that anyone without a user account on the target system can use its
resources. This is a security hole but only you can decide if it matters
in your situation.

I think it is a good idea to create the identical user
accounts/passwords in any case when Vista machines are involved and it
isn't an onerous task with home/small networks.

E. Create shares as desired. XP Home does not permit sharing of users'
home directories (My Documents) or Program Files, but you can share
folders inside those directories. A better choice is to simply use the
Shared Documents folder.

Malke

Thanks very much for some useful hints. I have removed IPX/Net BIOS.
I still have some issues in getting the Microsoft Windows Network
branch of the Explorer to display all the PCs on the network.
Sometimes I can map a drive to the required PC, othertimes not. The
other PC can see and link to the one that is blind - which is how I
have managed to get round the issue but it is rather intrusive to
people's work.

From your list of classic errors I can say that we do not have two

firewalls running, the firewall (Cisco 800 box) has the network
configured as does the F-Secure and Kaspersky (different PCs not on
each!), same workgroup and all have an identical account set up.
However I do have these differences:

- Static IP Addresses
- External DNS IP address to the ISP - so maybe there is no internal
knowledge of other PCs
- WINS Server at work (laptop flips between the two) - would this
confuse the laptop when on home network which has no WINS?
- enabled LMHOSTS and NetBIOS to operate over TCP/IP though I have not
entered any IPs in the HOSTS file
- not registered in DNS option on the network properties
- Authorise as computer is selected but not as guest under
Authentication tab

So how can some PCs work and others are just blind? Thanks again for
your time on this.

 

[Malke]

Thanks very much for some useful hints. I have removed IPX/Net BIOS.
I still have some issues in getting the Microsoft Windows Network
branch of the Explorer to display all the PCs on the network.
Sometimes I can map a drive to the required PC, othertimes not. The
other PC can see and link to the one that is blind - which is how I
have managed to get round the issue but it is rather intrusive to
people's work.

You only have three computers on this network? What does the WINS server
at work have to do with anything? If your laptop is configured for a
domain, you need to use it differently at home. Perhaps you should
explain what you are trying to do a little better.

Normally in a home network you simply set DHCP/DNS to be automatically
obtained. If you want to have static IPs (why?) then set them outside
the range your router uses. IOW, if your router does DHCP from
192.168.1.10-50, set your static IPs to something like 192.168.1.140 and
up. In this automatic scenario, the gateway is your router and usually
DNS is provided by the router (which gets it from the ISP).

firewalls running, the firewall (Cisco 800 box) has the network
configured as does the F-Secure and Kaspersky (different PCs not on
each!), same workgroup and all have an identical account set up.
However I do have these differences:

- Static IP Addresses
- External DNS IP address to the ISP - so maybe there is no internal
knowledge of other PCs
- WINS Server at work (laptop flips between the two) - would this
confuse the laptop when on home network which has no WINS?
- enabled LMHOSTS and NetBIOS to operate over TCP/IP though I have not
entered any IPs in the HOSTS file
- not registered in DNS option on the network properties
- Authorise as computer is selected but not as guest under
Authentication tab

Use domain laptop in a Workgroup:

From MVP Lanwench - You don't need to change to a workgroup just to
access resources on it. Once you've logged in using your domain account
(using cached credentials), and have an IP address on the home network,
you can map drives, use printers, etc., very easily - one way, in a
command line:

net use x: \\computername\sharename /user:computername\username <enter>

MS KB article about the Net Use command - http://tinyurl.com/3bpnj

Also see:

Managing One Windows XP-based Laptop for the Office and Home by MVP
Charlie Russel - http://tinyurl.com/cpy9q
http://winhlp.com/wxdomainworkgroup.htm - MVP Hans-Georg Michna

I think you need to be more clear about what you're trying to do,
including the operating systems on all machines and if that laptop is a
domain member elsewhere. It will also be useful for you to take the time
to go through Mr. Michna's network troubleshooter. Here is the link
again for your convenience:

http://winhlp.com/wxnet.htm


Malke

 

[Chuck [MVP]]

Thanks very much for some useful hints. I have removed IPX/Net BIOS.
I still have some issues in getting the Microsoft Windows Network
branch of the Explorer to display all the PCs on the network.
Sometimes I can map a drive to the required PC, othertimes not. The
other PC can see and link to the one that is blind - which is how I
have managed to get round the issue but it is rather intrusive to
people's work.

Lester,

With due respect to Malke's advice, if you find this issue intrusive to people's
work, and prefer to not manually map shares as LANWench advises, diagnose the
problem. Look at logs from "browstat status", "ipconfig /all", "net config
server", and "net config workstation", from each computer. Read this article,
and linked articles, and follow instructions precisely (download browstat!):
<http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp>
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html#AskingForHelp

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP 2005-2007 [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

 

[Lester Lane]

You only have three computers on this network? What does the WINS server
at work have to do with anything? If your laptop is configured for a
domain, you need to use it differently at home. Perhaps you should
explain what you are trying to do a little better.

Normally in a home network you simply set DHCP/DNS to be automatically
obtained. If you want to have static IPs (why?) then set them outside
the range your router uses. IOW, if your router does DHCP from
192.168.1.10-50, set your static IPs to something like 192.168.1.140 and
up. In this automatic scenario, the gateway is your router and usually
DNS is provided by the router (which gets it from the ISP).





Use domain laptop in a Workgroup:

From MVP Lanwench - You don't need to change to a workgroup just to
access resources on it. Once you've logged in using your domain account
(using cached credentials), and have an IP address on the home network,
you can map drives, use printers, etc., very easily - one way, in a
command line:

net use x: \\computername\sharename /user:computername\username <enter>

MS KB article about the Net Use command -http://tinyurl.com/3bpnj

Also see:

Managing One Windows XP-based Laptop for the Office and Home by MVP
Charlie Russel -http://tinyurl.com/cpy9qhttp://winhlp.com/wxdomainworkgroup.htm- MVP Hans-Georg Michna

I think you need to be more clear about what you're trying to do,
including the operating systems on all machines and if that laptop is a
domain member elsewhere. It will also be useful for you to take the time
to go through Mr. Michna's network troubleshooter. Here is the link
again for your convenience:

http://winhlp.com/wxnet.htm

Malke

Thanks again - good reading stuff, and questions. Which has made me
realise that maybe I should have the router acting as a DHCP. I was
informed that it only handed out IPs - but it would appear to act as a
store of IPs that are active and therefore a little like an internal
DNS. I know this is painfully basic but is this roughly right?

If so I may activate the DHCP and move my IPs around (nightmare
thought).

So at home I have no need for a static IP except for the printer - and
I would need to check that too as it might handle automatic IPs. Home
network is 2 PCs, 1 laptop and 1 printer/scanner. At work I have a
Windows Server 03 box (can this be auto IP? I've always forced IPs of
servers before now, and it does have the WINS, File and Print services
available). I also have a UPS with an IP, 2 static PCs and my laptop
(same as home one), and 3 printers (one wireless) - all controlled by
the server. By the way 2 of these printers are the same model and
when each of us prints at the same time to our own printer the server
drops one of the print jobs - stating it was completed. This may be a
further issue/redherring and for now not necessary.

So after all that - do you recommend I run the DHCP on the router and
which machines ought to be static IPs? Thanks again for your help, I
really feel I'm on the brink of a major breakthrough!

 

[Malke]

Thanks again - good reading stuff, and questions. Which has made me
realise that maybe I should have the router acting as a DHCP. I was
informed that it only handed out IPs - but it would appear to act as a
store of IPs that are active and therefore a little like an internal
DNS. I know this is painfully basic but is this roughly right?

No. DHCP is Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and that means handing
out IP addresses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol

DNS is the Domain Name System which matches human-readable hostnames
(www.google.com) to their IP addresses. The router gets DNS from the ISP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system

In a small network situation such as yours, the router also does NAT -
Network Address Translation - which enables you to share one dynamic IP
address from your Internet Service Provider among multiple computers on
your network by assigning private IP addresses to them. The router has
the public IP address on its WAN side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation

If you have a true network printer (connected directly to the network
either by ethernet or wirelessly and not locally to one of the
computers), you should give it a static IP address. Consumer-level
scanners can't be shared on the network. There are true network scanners
but they cost many thousands of dollars and are usually leased from a
business machines company.

If so I may activate the DHCP and move my IPs around (nightmare
thought).

So at home I have no need for a static IP except for the printer - and
I would need to check that too as it might handle automatic IPs. Home
network is 2 PCs, 1 laptop and 1 printer/scanner. At work I have a
Windows Server 03 box (can this be auto IP? I've always forced IPs of
servers before now, and it does have the WINS, File and Print services
available). I also have a UPS with an IP, 2 static PCs and my laptop
(same as home one), and 3 printers (one wireless) - all controlled by
the server. By the way 2 of these printers are the same model and
when each of us prints at the same time to our own printer the server
drops one of the print jobs - stating it was completed. This may be a
further issue/redherring and for now not necessary.

Servers always have a static IP address and what you do at work is only
relevant if you want to use Workgroup (peer-to-peer network at home)
resources with your domain-member laptop. Just having a server doesn't
mean you've got a domain with Active Directory. WINS is usually only set
up to support older operating systems.

For a home network, I would set your computers to get IP/DNS
automatically and assign static IPs to true network printers using
addresses outside of the router's address range.

Also see Chuck's always-excellent advice about computer browser issues.


Malke

 

[Lester Lane]

No. DHCP is Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol and that means handing
out IP addresses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_Host_Configuration_Protocol

DNS is the Domain Name System which matches human-readable hostnames
(www.google.com) to their IP addresses. The router gets DNS from the ISP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name_system

In a small network situation such as yours, the router also does NAT -
Network Address Translation - which enables you to share one dynamic IP
address from your Internet Service Provider among multiple computers on
your network by assigning private IP addresses to them. The router has
the public IP address on its WAN side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_address_translation

If you have a true network printer (connected directly to the network
either by ethernet or wirelessly and not locally to one of the
computers), you should give it a static IP address. Consumer-level
scanners can't be shared on the network. There are true network scanners
but they cost many thousands of dollars and are usually leased from a
business machines company.



Servers always have a static IP address and what you do at work is only
relevant if you want to use Workgroup (peer-to-peer network at home)
resources with your domain-member laptop. Just having a server doesn't
mean you've got a domain with Active Directory. WINS is usually only set
up to support older operating systems.

For a home network, I would set your computers to get IP/DNS
automatically and assign static IPs to true network printers using
addresses outside of the router's address range.

Also see Chuck's always-excellent advice about computer browser issues.

Malke

OK great, had a trawl round Wikipedia. So I will make my printer,
server and UPS static - even using DHCP. I will then give the servers
and my laptop a range that the DHCP hands out. Point taken about DHCP
& DNS but my confusion is: If the DNS is external (my ISP's DNS
server) then asking it questions about the IPs of internal PCs will
surely draw a blank. Where in my internal world does the PC get a
list of other PCs on the network? As DHCP is purely admin I'm still
stuck with these PCs not truely seeing each other. Am I missing the
obvious - it wouldn't be the first time?!

 

[Lester Lane]

OK great, had a trawl round Wikipedia. So I will make my printer,
server and UPS static - even using DHCP. I will then give the servers
and my laptop a range that the DHCP hands out. Point taken about DHCP
& DNS but my confusion is: If the DNS is external (my ISP's DNS
server) then asking it questions about the IPs of internal PCs will
surely draw a blank. Where in my internal world does the PC get a
list of other PCs on the network? As DHCP is purely admin I'm still
stuck with these PCs not truely seeing each other. Am I missing the
obvious - it wouldn't be the first time?!

Sorry, giving range to PCs and laptop NOT servers and laptop.

 

[Malke]

Sorry, giving range to PCs and laptop NOT servers and laptop.

The UPS doesn't normally have an IP address. I've never seen one that does.

Give static IP addresses to printers and the server *outside* of the
range handled by the router's DHCP.

Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP to make computers on the network visible to
each other.

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/troubleshoot/netbt.htm

Read through the information that Chuck and Jack gave you, as well as go
through Hans-Georg Michna's troubleshooter if you need to.


Malke

 

[Lester Lane]

The UPS doesn't normally have an IP address. I've never seen one that does.

Give static IP addresses to printers and the server *outside* of the
range handled by the router's DHCP.

Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP to make computers on the network visible to
each other.

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/troubleshoot/netbt.htm

Read through the information that Chuck and Jack gave you, as well as go
through Hans-Georg Michna's troubleshooter if you need to.

Malke

The UPS has a web interface, that's why it has an IP - so I treat it
like a server. It would appear that the lack of a DHCP server was not
the cause. My static address had all the necessary parts only I
appreciate DHCP is better to admin large no of PCs. I have one PC
that will not even be pinged, but it pings out. NetBIOS has always
been enabled. I've checked the software firewall in case a rule was
knocking it out. I'm running out of ideas. I've looked at Chuck &
Jack's links and maybe I can play around with these networking power
tools. Could a service be down that should be running? Thanks very
much for your help so far and I understand if we've now reached the
end!