Canon MV450i and firewire problem - camera not being recognized

W

willcarter

Hi All

I know this isn't a new problem, but I just can't find an answer for
it.

I have a fairly new Dell PC with 2 x IEEE 1394 ports, and a Canon
MV450i camcorder. I've just bought a good quality Belkin cable to
connect the two things but whatever I do, the PC just doesn't want to
recognize the camera. No error messages, just nothing.

In Device Manager I can clearly see the 1394 listed under Network
Adapters. No hint of a fault. The drivers seem to be up to date.

I've rebooted, unplugged and replugged, tried using WMM and Power
Director software but they don't see the camera either.

I'm aware that there was an issue for people who went to XP SP2, but
it's unclear whether this is the problem here. The PC came with SP2
installed. I've tried downloading and running the original Windows fix
(something like KB 8885522) but am getting an error when I try to
install. I'm tempted to think this isn't the issue here in any case.

Does anyone have any ideas that might help me? I've just about run out
of inspiration, and am feeling very frustrated by my inability to see
the camcorder.

Thanks in advance

Will (UK)
 
D

decoder

Hi All

I know this isn't a new problem, but I just can't find an answer for
it.

I have a fairly new Dell PC with 2 x IEEE 1394 ports, and a Canon
MV450i camcorder. I've just bought a good quality Belkin cable to
connect the two things but whatever I do, the PC just doesn't want to
recognize the camera. No error messages, just nothing.

In Device Manager I can clearly see the 1394 listed under Network
Adapters. No hint of a fault. The drivers seem to be up to date.

I've rebooted, unplugged and replugged, tried using WMM and Power
Director software but they don't see the camera either.

I'm aware that there was an issue for people who went to XP SP2, but
it's unclear whether this is the problem here. The PC came with SP2
installed. I've tried downloading and running the original Windows fix
Click to expand...


What original fix? The KB article you list dosen't exist?
http://tinyurl.com/8bjz7
(something like KB 8885522) but am getting an error when I try to
install. I'm tempted to think this isn't the issue here in any case.

Does anyone have any ideas that might help me? I've just about run out
of inspiration, and am feeling very frustrated by my inability to see
the camcorder.

Thanks in advance

Will (UK)
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with that cam, but some cam's that are equipped with
DV-In as well as DV-Out (Not all are) if so, in cams menu ensure DV-out
is selected, and that cam is switched to "VCR".
 
W

willcarter

Update:

Actually, when I plug the cable into the camera, a message saying "DV
IN" appears on the camera screen. I can't see any way of altering this
to DV OUT though, or whether it's relevant.

I also see no way of specifying VCR.

Does anyone have this camera, Canon MV450i? Perhaps they can tell me
what messages appear on their camera when the cable is inserted?

Than main issue though is simply that the camera is not being
recognised at all when connected to the PC.

Regards

Will
 
D

decoder

Update:

Actually, when I plug the cable into the camera, a message saying "DV
IN" appears on the camera screen. I can't see any way of altering this
to DV OUT though, or whether it's relevant.

I also see no way of specifying VCR.

Does anyone have this camera, Canon MV450i? Perhaps they can tell me
what messages appear on their camera when the cable is inserted?

Than main issue though is simply that the camera is not being
recognised at all when connected to the PC.

Regards

Will
Click to expand...

Yes, your cam has DV-in/out, and yes it is relevent to which setting.
It will certainly be explained in the instruction manual and
It really is as simple as reading the products instructions!
The Canon site is Excellent, here is just one link where you can
view FAQ and tips and solutions for your product, get a new manual
etc etc This is the UK link:
https://self-service.canon-europe.com/uk/pages/

This is the global link:
http://www.canon.com/
 
W

willcarter

Decoder: I'll avoid the temptation to be sarcastic as you are at least
offering some thoughts but Yes, I have read the manual! And no, it
doesn't help, sadly!

The section concerning connecting to a PC consists of 2 or 3 simple
sentences along the lines of "connect to firewire port on PC using
cable". No troubleshooting advice.

The pages on the menu options don't mention DV IN or DV OUT at all, and
there is no obvious way to change it, if I have to.

Thanks for the link to the Canon site. For some reason they are in
denial that my model exists (MV450i). They don't offer any detailed
help. I have emailed them however and they propmisr to get back to me
in "2 or 3 working days" which is very frustrating as I'm off work this
week and had a load of video editing planned. But thanks for the
pointer.

Graham -- The cam itself works fine i.e. recording and playback. It has
worked before connected to a laptop PC that had, if I recall correctly,
a different sort of firewire port (it looked identical to the one on
the camera). This is the first time I am trying on this PC.

Thanks for the links. I have tried most of the suggestions, apart from
the XP SP1 - SP2 upgrade issues as this PC has never had SP1 as far as
I'm aware. It was shipped to me with SP2. I have however followed the
other suggestions - I removed the Firewire card from the PC, turned the
PC back on, then off again, reinserted the Firewire card (in a
different slot); the PC recognised the new IEEE1394 hardware as hoped,
but after inserting the cable again, found that it was still not seeing
the camera.

Thanks for all the suggestions but I'm still at my wits end here!

Any thoughts about where I go from here?

Regards

Andy
 
D

decoder

Decoder: I'll avoid the temptation to be sarcastic as you are at least
offering some thoughts but Yes, I have read the manual! And no, it
doesn't help, sadly!

The section concerning connecting to a PC consists of 2 or 3 simple
sentences along the lines of "connect to firewire port on PC using
cable". No troubleshooting advice.

The pages on the menu options don't mention DV IN or DV OUT at all, and
there is no obvious way to change it, if I have to.

Thanks for the link to the Canon site. For some reason they are in
denial that my model exists (MV450i). They don't offer any detailed
help. I have emailed them however and they propmisr to get back to me
in "2 or 3 working days" which is very frustrating as I'm off work this
week and had a load of video editing planned. But thanks for the
pointer.

Graham -- The cam itself works fine i.e. recording and playback. It has
worked before connected to a laptop PC that had, if I recall correctly,
a different sort of firewire port (it looked identical to the one on
the camera). This is the first time I am trying on this PC.

Thanks for the links. I have tried most of the suggestions, apart from
the XP SP1 - SP2 upgrade issues as this PC has never had SP1 as far as
I'm aware. It was shipped to me with SP2. I have however followed the
other suggestions - I removed the Firewire card from the PC, turned the
PC back on, then off again, reinserted the Firewire card (in a
different slot); the PC recognised the new IEEE1394 hardware as hoped,
but after inserting the cable again, found that it was still not seeing
the camera.

Thanks for all the suggestions but I'm still at my wits end here!

Any thoughts about where I go from here?

Regards

Andy
Click to expand...

Ah!!!
Apoligies if I sounded sarcastic, and apoligies if this is too obvious,
but....
The Firewire output from a cam will be four pin and the PCI card input
will be six pin. Your cam maybe "protecting" it's battery? And may not
output a signal unless the cam is connected to it's power adapter?
 
D

decoder

I have the camera plugged into mains power.
Click to expand...

Okay..........
This has got me frazzled.............
Your Mv450i was discontinued by Canon seemingly rather rapidly
back in 2003? Here in Europe there are consumer laws that require
a manufacturer to ensure back-up for at least 7 years after depletion.
And that particular Canon model was marketed here in UK, but........
Canon globally seem to have erased all reference to that model?

Your Canon outputs data at the standard 1394 transfer of 400mbps.
Your Dell, as it is new(ish) *maybe* equipped with a PCI card that
is 800mbps? Though this shouldn't be an issue?
http://www.1394ta.org/index.html
(All it means is data is transferred at the lower 400megabytes per second,
For transfer at 800, both out and capture have to be 800mbps, and it
should only be an issue with certain types of firewire HD's.)

Try this:
With PC powered off/down and Canon also powered off.
Connect Canon/firewire cable to PC, Then boot PC,
Once Windows has loaded, power up your Canon -
Your Canon should be equipped with a switch for capture
or playback, it is usually a flick up or down of a sort of dial.
And *Playback* on every camcorder I've seen is either marked
as: VTR or VCR, whatever, you want to switch the Canon on
to *Playback*.

If still NO onscreen prompt that a device is detected,
Double-Click "My Computer"
With all recognised connected firewire devices, it should
be listed and detailed below your hardware and drives?
If not...............

Does your Canon playback when connected to TV/VCR
via S-video/composite? If so, ensure the same setting
is selected (playback?) when connecting to PC?

Or it could be the firewire cable? Do you have access
to another firewire device so as to test the interconnect?
 
W

willcarter

Decoder - I don't know much about the history of the model though it
was very well received at the time, and is usually heartily praised by
its owners. The Downloads section of the Canon website has no software
or downloads listed for this model. Maybe there are no special drivers?
But anyway, it shouldn't need special drivers to be recognised by the
PC.

Thanks for the info about the transfer rates. Useful to know. My Dell
DImension 5000 is about a year old. The Firewire port is shown under
Device Manager. I switched the card to another slot with the same
result.

I've been through every combination of operations - plugging and
unplugging and rebooting at different times. The camera is on mains
power, and is switched to "Play (VCR)" which of course plays the tape
and should be available for capture. It isn't visible as a drive, and
doesn't appear in Device Manager.

I haven't tried connecting to a TV/VCR, but can do.

I haven't got another Firewire device, but I have ordered another cable
from Ebay which should be here tomorrow.

Something I asked on another newsgroup but haven't had an answer to --
Is there anything to stop me capturing from a DVD or DVD Recorder? I
was thinking that an option could be for me to buy a cheap DVD
recorder, dump the material onto DVD (or onto hard disk if necessary).
Would I then be able to capture from DVD or hard disk into Power
Director?

I'm sorry that this is 'frazzling' you, but really do appreciate your
suggestions.

Regards

Will
 
D

decoder

Decoder - I don't know much about the history of the model though it
was very well received at the time, and is usually heartily praised by
its owners. The Downloads section of the Canon website has no software
or downloads listed for this model. Maybe there are no special drivers?
But anyway, it shouldn't need special drivers to be recognised by the
PC.

Thanks for the info about the transfer rates. Useful to know. My Dell
DImension 5000 is about a year old. The Firewire port is shown under
Device Manager. I switched the card to another slot with the same
result.

I've been through every combination of operations - plugging and
unplugging and rebooting at different times. The camera is on mains
power, and is switched to "Play (VCR)" which of course plays the tape
and should be available for capture. It isn't visible as a drive, and
doesn't appear in Device Manager.
Click to expand...
But the cam won't show in Device manager, It's not supposed to!
It should show in windows explorer? - "My Computer"?
I'll email direct some screengrabs as a guide.
I haven't tried connecting to a TV/VCR, but can do.

I haven't got another Firewire device, but I have ordered another cable
from Ebay which should be here tomorrow.

Something I asked on another newsgroup but haven't had an answer to --
Is there anything to stop me capturing from a DVD or DVD Recorder? I
was thinking that an option could be for me to buy a cheap DVD
recorder, dump the material onto DVD (or onto hard disk if necessary).
Would I then be able to capture from DVD or hard disk into Power
Director?
Click to expand...
I think you mean a standalone DVD recorder? If so then there is still the
problem of no signal transferring out from your cam?
The best option remains capturing the footage from DV cam to HD via
firewire. It is best to get that functioning first.
 
D

decoder

Hi, I tried to send a screengrab guide to your above email account,
but it was rejected?
So I quickly set up a yahoo account for you to access the jpeg.
This is the sign-in page for yahoo.co.uk:
http://tinyurl.com/bollz

The sign-in name: (e-mail address removed) (canon_firewire "at"
yahoo.co.uk)
password: newsgroup

The jpeg guide is clean, yahoo scan all attachments
 
G

Graham Hughes

As you cannot see the camcorder at all in the pc I'd suspect some sort of
hardware fault and direct you back to the testing I have listed on the page
I linked to earlier.
You mmay find it is the cable and the new one when it arrives will solve the
problem. It may be the firewire card, unfortunately when it shows up in
device manager as working it is not strictly true in that it is definately
working ok - it can be faulty and still some up as ok.
The only way to sort it is to test with known to work components.

Windows supplies the firewire drivers, so no need to worry about drivers.

Mpegs are hard to edit and you loose quality, so I'd stay away from that
idea.

--
Graham Hughes
MVP Digital Media
www.myvideoproblems.co.uk
www.dvds2treasure.com
www.simplydv.com
 
W

willcarter

As you cannot see the camcorder at all in the pc I'd suspect some sort of
hardware fault and direct you back to the testing I have listed on the
page
I linked to earlier.

Decoder - Thanks for taking the time to produce that document, I'm
extremely impressed!. I've sent a doc to same mail account showing my
own set-up, and how it differs.

Graham - I've tried the new cable which arrived this morning, with the
same result - failure. I have already been through pretty much all the
tests I can think of - including opening the machine and swapping cards
around.
Next steps would seem to be to 1) take the camera and cable elsewhere
and find another machine with a 1394 port to test it.
AND/OR 2) buy a new Firewire card.

Once again, thank you everyone for the attention. Am very impressed
with the video community, seemingly untouched by too many trolls and
troublemakers and abusive types!.

Kind regards

Andy
 
D

decoder

hardware fault and direct you back to the testing I have listed on the
page
I linked to earlier.

Decoder - Thanks for taking the time to produce that document, I'm
extremely impressed!. I've sent a doc to same mail account showing my
own set-up, and how it differs.

Graham - I've tried the new cable which arrived this morning, with the
same result - failure. I have already been through pretty much all the
tests I can think of - including opening the machine and swapping cards
around.
Next steps would seem to be to 1) take the camera and cable elsewhere
and find another machine with a 1394 port to test it.
AND/OR 2) buy a new Firewire card.

Once again, thank you everyone for the attention. Am very impressed
with the video community, seemingly untouched by too many trolls and
troublemakers and abusive types!.

Kind regards

Andy
Click to expand...

Hi
Your Firewire card is doubtful to be the fault.
It's listed correctly as host controller, the two ports are included within
this heading. Your web cam is USB, that is why it and other USB devices
will be listed in Device manager, but firewire devices are not.
Your word doc failed to show most screen captures?
But I bet my bottom dollar it's a configuration setting within the DV cam
itself?
It's now tricky for you as you will have to try a process of trial and
error-
Try your cam on another PC and/or try another DV or firewire device on
your PC!
Try this dedicated DV forum, hopefully you'll find other Canon users
with a solution
Good luck.

http://www.dvspot.com/forums/
 
D

decoder

hardware fault and direct you back to the testing I have listed on the
page
I linked to earlier.

Decoder - Thanks for taking the time to produce that document, I'm
extremely impressed!. I've sent a doc to same mail account showing my
own set-up, and how it differs.

Graham - I've tried the new cable which arrived this morning, with the
same result - failure. I have already been through pretty much all the
tests I can think of - including opening the machine and swapping cards
around.
Next steps would seem to be to 1) take the camera and cable elsewhere
and find another machine with a 1394 port to test it.
AND/OR 2) buy a new Firewire card.

Once again, thank you everyone for the attention. Am very impressed
with the video community, seemingly untouched by too many trolls and
troublemakers and abusive types!.

Kind regards

Andy
Click to expand...

Hi
Apoligies for hounding you, especially as I didn't produce a solution,
BUT...
I now *need* to know the result! Also, I'm determined we are going to
get your Canon and Dell to function normally, it is now my mission in life!
Your Canon will have "analog" outputs -
I'd like if you'd try with analog devices such as TV or VCR -
This unfortunately may involve you in the added expense of the
relevent interconnect's.... cheap products will do fine.....
If you are UK, I'm more than happy to mail you such cables,
just email address details to the posting addy that I used for
the post to canon_firewire (decoder etc).............
Your camcorder will have either/both, S-Video/composite outputs -
Your TV/VCR will also have similar input(s) -
Connect the cam to TV and/or VCR -
Then fiddle about with your camcorders menu's to see if you
can produce an image on your TV or capture to VCR via their
analog inputs -
If successful, then the *setting* on the cam that resulted in an
image either being produced on a TV screen or captured to VCR
is also the *setting* that should be chosen when transferring data
to firewire input of your Dell PC, the only addition to this maze is
that your cam's output menu *must* also include that all important
"DV-OUT" option to be also selected.
 
W

willcarter

I continue to be amazed by your helpfulness, decoder.

It's early Sunday morning, and I'm just off out for the day, so I may
not be able to do this today but I will follow your suggestions and
report back.

Thanks again for your help,

Will
 
G

Guest

Hiya,

I have exactly the same problem as you with a Canon MV 450i. I'm trying to
connect it to my Toshiba laptop via a 4 pin/4 pin Belkin firewire cable and
nothing I do will make the thing show up on the computer.

Have you discovered a fix yet? It's driving me insane!!

Cheers,
Alex
 
G

Guest

Sorted it!

The device did show up in Device Manager under 'Imaging devices' as
'Microsoft DV Camera and VCR' (even though it's Canon!) when I connected
through a 4 pin/4 pin firewire cable. I still can't see it in My Computer by
the way.

I went to a site that Graham Hughes posted for you:
http://www.myvideoproblems.com/ProblemPages/CannotCapture.htm and downloaded
a little piece of software called WinDV from here: http://windv.mourek.cz/ -
it's just an .exe and all I did was rewind the Mini DV tape on the camcorder
and play it and then click 'capture' in WinDV whilst the 'capturing from DV'
tab was selected and hey presto my video was playing on the laptop screen and
was saved into various files of varying lengths (for some reason) on my
desktop.

Hope this helps if you haven't discovered a fix already.

Well done Graham and thank you very much!

Cheers,
Alex
 

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