Canon i9900 Printer Profile

[BobS]

x-posted to rec.photo.digital

Evening All,

About a week ago I was asking about printers and the consensus /
recommendation was for the Canon i9900. Found one in-stock today at a local
store so I brought it home with me this evening and started playing with it
(belated Christmas gift...;-).

Although I have some matte and glossy papers the Cannon came with a small
sample pack of Photo Paper Pro and what a difference it makes! My problem
now is the typical color management one but here's an oddity for you. I use
PS CS and have an LCD monitor which was set using the Adobe Gamma setup.
Prior to getting this printer, I would edit my prints using the standard
Adobe profile (default setting) and my camera is set for the Adobe profile.
I would burn the files to a CD and off to my local photo shop where the
owner has a dye-sub printer ($500 variety but I don't recall the name of
it). Whenever he prints my 8x10's he uses PS v7 and the imbedded profile in
the files I gave him. Pictures have come out spot on. I can hold an 8x10
print from him up to my screen and if there's any difference, I can't tell
you what it is.

So now enters the Canon i9900 which uses dye inks, I'm using the Canon
glossy paper and the same Adobe profile and the prints are not even close.
Canon has several profiles to select from (PR1, PR2, MP1, SP2 and several
Adobe plus some others) and I tried all but SP2 - ran out of paper
tonight.....

So without a Spyder monitor / printer calibration (or other model) what is
the drill here to start narrowing down the difference? Not everyone in the
world uses a monitor calibrator, and they get their prints to match their
monitor - somehow. Trial and error but where do I start? I need a test
photo from my printer that I can then hold up to my monitor and adjust and
I'm assuming that must be a standard of some sort that I should be able to
download and print straight from a file without any adjustments - no?

I'll be checking the Canon site tomorrow as well as the many Help files but
knowing that probably a few of you have been down this road once or twice,
you just might have some sage advice to pass along.

Appreciate your help,

Bob S.

 

[Bernie]

x-posted to rec.photo.digital

Evening All,

About a week ago I was asking about printers and the consensus /
recommendation was for the Canon i9900. Found one in-stock today at a local
store so I brought it home with me this evening and started playing with it
(belated Christmas gift...;-).

Although I have some matte and glossy papers the Cannon came with a small
sample pack of Photo Paper Pro and what a difference it makes! My problem
now is the typical color management one but here's an oddity for you. I use
PS CS and have an LCD monitor which was set using the Adobe Gamma setup.
Prior to getting this printer, I would edit my prints using the standard
Adobe profile (default setting) and my camera is set for the Adobe profile.
I would burn the files to a CD and off to my local photo shop where the
owner has a dye-sub printer ($500 variety but I don't recall the name of
it). Whenever he prints my 8x10's he uses PS v7 and the imbedded profile in
the files I gave him. Pictures have come out spot on. I can hold an 8x10
print from him up to my screen and if there's any difference, I can't tell
you what it is.

So now enters the Canon i9900 which uses dye inks, I'm using the Canon
glossy paper and the same Adobe profile and the prints are not even close.
Canon has several profiles to select from (PR1, PR2, MP1, SP2 and several
Adobe plus some others) and I tried all but SP2 - ran out of paper
tonight.....

So without a Spyder monitor / printer calibration (or other model) what is
the drill here to start narrowing down the difference? Not everyone in the
world uses a monitor calibrator, and they get their prints to match their
monitor - somehow. Trial and error but where do I start? I need a test
photo from my printer that I can then hold up to my monitor and adjust and
I'm assuming that must be a standard of some sort that I should be able to
download and print straight from a file without any adjustments - no?

I'll be checking the Canon site tomorrow as well as the many Help files but
knowing that probably a few of you have been down this road once or twice,
you just might have some sage advice to pass along.

Appreciate your help,

Bob S.

I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it by
starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some test
prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test prints I
found most helpful is http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx

Bernie

 

[BobS]

Thank you to all that responded. Did *a lot* of reading and searching the
web and in the end, I got a ColorVision colorimeter to end the frustration
and wasting of materials. Just finished about an hour ago calibrating my
monitor and selecting the right profiles to use on the printer - and it
works now.

Lessons learned....

1. You may not need the hardware sensor to calibrate your monitor but it
does take the frustration out of the process. It did in 10 minutes what I
couldn't do in two days of putzin around wasting ink and paper.

2. The paper used makes a *significant* difference in the results achieved
and the cheap stuff is only good for snapshots.

3. After finally getting everything aligned / calibrated, the Canon i9900
certainly appears to live up to the reviews I've read and your comments.

4. Some of the ink cartridges for the i9900 (BCI-6) are not readily
available yet at the major stores (Best Buy, CompUSA) - missing the PM and
PC cartridges.

5. Quality paper is 'xpensive.....!

Again, thanks for your help - greatly appreciated,

Bob S.

 

[Gary Eickmeier]

Thank you to all that responded. Did *a lot* of reading and searching the
web and in the end, I got a ColorVision colorimeter to end the frustration
and wasting of materials. Just finished about an hour ago calibrating my
monitor and selecting the right profiles to use on the printer - and it
works now.

Lessons learned....

1. You may not need the hardware sensor to calibrate your monitor but it
does take the frustration out of the process. It did in 10 minutes what I
couldn't do in two days of putzin around wasting ink and paper.

2. The paper used makes a *significant* difference in the results achieved
and the cheap stuff is only good for snapshots.

3. After finally getting everything aligned / calibrated, the Canon i9900
certainly appears to live up to the reviews I've read and your comments.

4. Some of the ink cartridges for the i9900 (BCI-6) are not readily
available yet at the major stores (Best Buy, CompUSA) - missing the PM and
PC cartridges.

5. Quality paper is 'xpensive.....!

Again, thanks for your help - greatly appreciated,

Bob -

I just got the Colorvision ColorPlus spyder kit (the cheapie). I haven't
done the process yet, but I have been reading a lot about color
management, trying to understand it.

Just reading the instructions for the ColorPlus, it is not clear to me
what this has to do with color. They have you adjusting contrast and
brightness, but it says nothing about color. What is happening here? Is
the ColorPlus spyder the same one that you have? They are all
colorimeters, right? So what is the mechanism that gets the color right?

And how do you set the printer's profile?

Gary Eickmeier

 

[Gary Eickmeier]

I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it by
starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some test
prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test prints I
found most helpful is http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx

Bernie

Gorgeous! I will make good use of that one!

Gary Eickmeier

 

[Gary Eickmeier]

I created a profile for my printer for the paper I use. I did do it by
starting with the recommended profile for the paper and doing some test
prints so that my prints matched my monitor. One of the test prints I
found most helpful is http://digitaldog.net/files/PrinterTestfile.jpg.hqx

Well, I just tried to open it, and it isn't recognized by Elements 3.0.
What the hell is an .hqx file, and how did it get that way?

Gary Eickmeier

 

[John McWilliams]

I just got the Colorvision ColorPlus spyder kit (the cheapie). I haven't
done the process yet, but I have been reading a lot about color
management, trying to understand it.

Just reading the instructions for the ColorPlus, it is not clear to me
what this has to do with color. They have you adjusting contrast and
brightness, but it says nothing about color. What is happening here? Is
the ColorPlus spyder the same one that you have? They are all
colorimeters, right? So what is the mechanism that gets the color right?

And how do you set the printer's profile?

I have the Spyder 2 and basically you just follow their directions, with
the thingie plugged into a USB port.

It creates a monitor profile and stores it in the Library on a Mac with
osX.

Printing profiles are different kettles. I use canned profiles; don't
intend on making a custom one for a bit.

 

[Markeau]

Well, I just tried to open it, and it isn't recognized by Elements
3.0.

..hqx is a Mac format ... to get the plain jpg: copy that link, paste
it into a browser, delete the .hqx

 

[BobS]

Gary,

From a very simplistic knowledge base (mine), I'll attempt to explain what I
think I've learned over the past few days. Trust me, color management is
complicated and there is a whole industry built around making products and
furnishing services (making printer profiles) for this.

This may not be correct but it helps me justify spending all this money on a
few toys for my hobby....;-)

Yes, I have the same version of the spyder you have - it was the only one
available locally and while I would have liked to get the latest model, this
one appears to work fine. You initially set your monitor to it's default
settings and remove any color profiles for your monitor (such as Adobe's
Gamma) prior to doing the alignment. Also be sure there is no other light
sources hitting your screen - turn off all the lights.

Once the ColorVision software is installed, you then connect the sensor and
position it over the square indicated on the screen. For the next 10
minutes, the software cycles thru many variations of red, green and blue,
building a monitor profile that meets a *standard* and sets the color
temperature to 6500° Kelvin (bright daylight). Now I'm using the term
standard rather loosely here since I don't know which standard it is and I
simply did not research it.

After calibrating your monitor, it stores the profile and it is the one
called during your computer startup process. Now when you look at a photo
on your monitor, all the colors should be the proper shade and hue (well,
almost...at this price point I doubt it's 100%).

So how does this equate to getting your printer to match what you now see on
your screen? Your printer has preset profiles that are based on a number of
variables (inks, papers, monitor and other profiles). You can tell the
printer software about the type of paper you're using (matte, glossy,
high-gloss, etc.) and you can also select from a listing of preset profiles
(Adobe presets, the one you just made using the ColorVison, and a host of
others) or you can make manual adjustments. If you select the one you just
made from your monitor calibration, then when it prints the photo, it should
be real close to what you see on your screen.

It will not be 100% but it will be so close it won't matter probably and if
it does, you can tweak the settings manually depending on your printer
software/driver. One significant point - the type of paper you use makes a
big difference in the quality of the photo printed. I was amazed at the
difference the Canon paper had over the GP paper I also have. The picture
leaped off the paper with the Canon paper in comparison. Difference in
gloss levels and whatever else but it sure made a huge difference.

Now the guru's can leap in here and totally tear my explanation apart and
tell you the real reason this magic smoke works.... but that's my story, it
works for me and if it's not broke any more, I sure as hell am not going to
tweak it - until next week anyway........;-)

Bob S.

 

[Bernie]

Gorgeous! I will make good use of that one!

Gary Eickmeier

Sorry, hadn't noticed that. On my Windows system, with both Mozilla or
Netscape as the browser, it opens. But not with Internet Explorer.
But here is a version that should work for you:
http://digitaldog.net/files/Printer Test file.jpg

Bernie

 

[Gary Eickmeier]

Thank you so much, Bob. That was about the best explanation I've seen so
far. Now I'd like to go thru your material and ask a couple more for
clarification.

Gary,

From a very simplistic knowledge base (mine), I'll attempt to explain what I
think I've learned over the past few days. Trust me, color management is
complicated and there is a whole industry built around making products and
furnishing services (making printer profiles) for this.

Yes, but I just wish they would give me the cookie cutter explanation
somewhere, as you just did.

This may not be correct but it helps me justify spending all this money on a
few toys for my hobby....;-)

Yes, I have the same version of the spyder you have - it was the only one
available locally and while I would have liked to get the latest model, this
one appears to work fine. You initially set your monitor to it's default
settings and remove any color profiles for your monitor (such as Adobe's
Gamma) prior to doing the alignment. Also be sure there is no other light
sources hitting your screen - turn off all the lights.

OK - I'll look for those settings. I think I have seen them, when
attempting the Adobe gamma adjustment.

Once the ColorVision software is installed, you then connect the sensor and
position it over the square indicated on the screen. For the next 10
minutes, the software cycles thru many variations of red, green and blue,
building a monitor profile that meets a *standard* and sets the color
temperature to 6500° Kelvin (bright daylight). Now I'm using the term
standard rather loosely here since I don't know which standard it is and I
simply did not research it.

Great! That gives me some relief, that it is doing color as well.

After calibrating your monitor, it stores the profile and it is the one
called during your computer startup process. Now when you look at a photo
on your monitor, all the colors should be the proper shade and hue (well,
almost...at this price point I doubt it's 100%).

OK... fine... so if I have a photo file from my local lab and an ideal
print made by them from that file, what I see on my monitor should look
the same, right? Or, if I take a file to a lab and have them print it,
it should look the same on my monitor, if they are doing it right. A
Fuji Frontier, maybe.

So how does this equate to getting your printer to match what you now see on
your screen? Your printer has preset profiles that are based on a number of
variables (inks, papers, monitor and other profiles). You can tell the
printer software about the type of paper you're using (matte, glossy,
high-gloss, etc.) and you can also select from a listing of preset profiles
(Adobe presets, the one you just made using the ColorVison, and a host of
others) or you can make manual adjustments. If you select the one you just
made from your monitor calibration, then when it prints the photo, it should
be real close to what you see on your screen.

Something seems missing from this explanation. I need to set my printer
drivers for the color of the file, sure, but I also need to tell it
Canon Photo Paper Pro or whatever. Where does that come in? All I see in
my Canon software (for the printer) is "Use ICM." There is also some
yip-yap about "associating" a profile with your images. What is going on
there? I know, I have a lot of reading yet ahead of me, but those are
some of my big questions so far.

There was also a note in one of my books about not double banging your
printer color management. Apparently there are two places you can set
it, and you shouldn't use both at once. Ever hear of that?

It will not be 100% but it will be so close it won't matter probably and if
it does, you can tweak the settings manually depending on your printer
software/driver. One significant point - the type of paper you use makes a
big difference in the quality of the photo printed. I was amazed at the
difference the Canon paper had over the GP paper I also have. The picture
leaped off the paper with the Canon paper in comparison. Difference in
gloss levels and whatever else but it sure made a huge difference.

Now the guru's can leap in here and totally tear my explanation apart and
tell you the real reason this magic smoke works.... but that's my story, it
works for me and if it's not broke any more, I sure as hell am not going to
tweak it - until next week anyway........;-)

Yes, I'm getting some pretty good results from my i950 too. But I want
to learn how to do it right, and repeatably.

Gary Eickmeier

 

[BobS]

Gary,

I'm cutting out some here for brevity and will try and answer your
questions:

OK - I'll look for those settings. I think I have seen them, when
attempting the Adobe gamma adjustment.

Be sure to disable the Adobe Gamma program. Go to the Control Panel to get
at the Adobe Gamma Icon. To reset your monitor, typically it's done by the
buttons/knobs on the monitor itself. Find the menu and if it has a reset
feature, set it to the factory defaults. Depending on the monitor (mines an
LCD) you want the Contrast level all the way up and the Brightness at the
highest level where whites are white and not shades of gray. If you have
settings to choose from for color temprature (5,000, 6,500, 7,500, 9,300)
select the one for 6,500 or closest selection you have.

OK... fine... so if I have a photo file from my local lab and an ideal
print made by them from that file, what I see on my monitor should look
the same, right?

No.... If the file was made by the photolab then it should match their
monitor and the picture file the made will have a profile assigned to it,
such as an Adobe profile or some other known profile. When you open the
file (this is based on PS CS, not on Elements 3) and if it's not an Adobe
profile or it's missing a profile, it will ask if you want to assign or
convert it to a particular profile. You can verify and change the profile
from one type to another using (Image > Mode > Assign Profile). Assuming
you assign the picture file to the profile you just made using the spyder,
the photo will now take on the characteristics of your monitor. At this
point - there's no guarantee whether the printed photo you got from the lab
will match the photo on your screen and most likely won't. It should be
close but....

Now if you printed it, the print you make with the custom profile of your
monitor as the "Print Space" selection (under Print with Preview) and your
other selections (paper type etc) you should have a print that matches your
screen fairly close. It may not have correct colors but it should match.
To make things right, you take the photo file from the lab, assign a profile
to it (your custom profile) when you open the picture or assign it after you
bring in the picture. Now you make any adjustments you need (brightness,
contrast, colors, levels, curves, etc.) so it looks correct on your monitor.
If the print from the lab looks good, try to match the one on your screen to
that print by making the corrections/adjustments. Now when you save that
file, it will have your monitor profile assigned to it and when you print
it, you set the printer driver to use the custom profile and whatever other
selections (paper, inks, etc.). Hopefully, the print you make will look
close enough to the one from the lab.

Or, if I take a file to a lab and have them print it,
it should look the same on my monitor, if they are doing it right. A
Fuji Frontier, maybe.

Yes...it should but that assumes they don't alter the profile. Also
remember that the "preset" profiles are not 100% accurate but should be
close enough. When you stop and think of all the variables involved (monitor
type and quality, photo application, camera options, all the profiles
involved, inks, papers, your eyesight and your perception of what makes a
good looking photo, and a hunderd other little factors - this gets
complicated fast.... If you had a picture of a great looking young lady
with the blonde hair sitting on your lap while you're in a bright red
convertible parked at a lonely beach - do you really give a damn if the
polka-dots on her bikini are purple or mauve? Close enough - right....

Something seems missing from this explanation. I need to set my printer
drivers for the color of the file, sure, but I also need to tell it
Canon Photo Paper Pro or whatever. Where does that come in? All I see in
my Canon software (for the printer) is "Use ICM." There is also some
yip-yap about "associating" a profile with your images. What is going on
there? I know, I have a lot of reading yet ahead of me, but those are
some of my big questions so far.

Although I have Elements 3 (for the wife), I use CS so I'm not familiar
enough with how you do things in Elements 3 but basically, when you go to
print, use Print with Preview. The "Source Space" should have a radio
button set for - Document: ColorPlus Profile.icm - which is the name of the
custom profile the spyder makes of your monitor (at least that's the name of
the profile it assigned when I did my calibration).

Under "Print Space" select the ColorPlus Profile.icm for the profile and
then for the Intent selection, I've been using "Perceptual" but you'll read
more about those selections and why you use them - later. Place a checkmark
in "Use Black Point Compensation" only because I say so......;-) Actually,
black is not black (it's reference point is different in some profiles) so
this will compensate for differences in the profiles you just made and the
picture file you got from the lab.

Now, click on Print and this brings up a window that should show your
printer selection. Select the correct printer and then click on Properties.
Here's where you make some of the selections and your driver will differ
from mine probably. This is where you select the type of paper and if you
go to the paper manufacture's site, they may have a profile you can download
and install for their paper if it's other than Canon. After it's installed,
this is where you would select it otherwise it's hit and miss and you'll
need to experiment with the available selections. Remember that your
printer has been optimized for Canon inks and papers and you'll have to
experiment to see which selection gives you the best photo if you're using
something other than Canon paper.

There was also a note in one of my books about not double banging your
printer color management. Apparently there are two places you can set
it, and you shouldn't use both at once. Ever hear of that?

ICM = Image Color Mangement used by Windows 2000 and XP and this is what
you're wondering about and it gives you the double whammy. It definitely
will cause color changes - my wifes auburn colored hair came out with a
green tint to it and she didn't like me at all for that!

Also when you uncheck Enable ICM, be sure to set "Print Type:" to None (and
I don't have an explanation why on that one yet other than that it is
another color correction selection that you don't want right now.)

Yes, I'm getting some pretty good results from my i950 too. But I want
to learn how to do it right, and repeatably.

Well, repeatability covers a lot of ground and if you use the same color
space profile settings on your camera (assumes your camera has that
selection), and make consistent print option selections using the same paper
and inks - then it's reasonable to think you should. But change any one of
the many variables from the camera to the printer and all bets are off.
Just read the disclaimer that came with the printer - "Use only this type
paper with our inks or die...."

Obviously I have a lot to learn yet but this little jaunt into the world of
Color Management has taught me a lot and explaining what I think I know,
helps keep it clear for me also. Teaching is the best format for learning -
as they say. If I'm passing along some mis-information - sorry.

As I said before, all the above is a simplistic explanation of my
understanding of what I've absorbed from many sources in the past few days.
It may or may not be totally correct and anyone wishing to make corrections
or clarifications - please jump on in here.

Bob S.

 

[John McWilliams]

I'm cutting out some here for brevity and will try and answer your
questions: As did I....
Although I have Elements 3 (for the wife), I use CS so I'm not familiar
enough with how you do things in Elements 3 but basically, when you go to
print, use Print with Preview. The "Source Space" should have a radio
button set for - Document: ColorPlus Profile.icm - which is the name of the
custom profile the spyder makes of your monitor (at least that's the name of
the profile it assigned when I did my calibration).

When I calibrated my monitor, I got a dialogue box allowing me to give
it any name at all. It did not attach an extension, but got placed
properly in the color management folder in the main Library. All but a
few profiles, for monitors, printers, paper and press end in .icc, with
only a couple ending in .icm. Not sure the significance, if any of these
two extensions; if they're really intended for different uses.

Under "Print Space" select the ColorPlus Profile.icm for the profile and
then for the Intent selection, I've been using "Perceptual" but you'll read
more about those selections and why you use them - later. Place a checkmark
in "Use Black Point Compensation" only because I say so......;-) Actually,
black is not black (it's reference point is different in some profiles) so
this will compensate for differences in the profiles you just made and the
picture file you got from the lab.

Under Print Space is where I choose the paper's profile, if there is
one. [It'd be nice if doing so automatically set the Printer driver's
paper selection, but it doesn't, so that's where I choose the paper type
recommended.] If there's no paper profile for the third party paper, or
if it's Epson paper, I'd choose the paper type that Epson has installed
with the drivers, still in the PS dialogue.

I, too, would hope for correction if I am off base- but one of us should
benefit, at the least.

 

[Gary Eickmeier]

Obviously I have a lot to learn yet but this little jaunt into the world of
Color Management has taught me a lot and explaining what I think I know,
helps keep it clear for me also. Teaching is the best format for learning -
as they say. If I'm passing along some mis-information - sorry.

As I said before, all the above is a simplistic explanation of my
understanding of what I've absorbed from many sources in the past few days.
It may or may not be totally correct and anyone wishing to make corrections
or clarifications - please jump on in here.

Well, thanks again for your insight and patience. You know what a
struggle it is. I will probably print out your post and refer to it.

I cleaned some nozzles and aligned some heads last night, and printed
some of the test images that I have collected. The prints looked
amazingly close to the monitor as I have it set - so I'm scared of
screwing something up. But hey. I'm going to do this thing!

Gary Eickmeier