Cannon IP5000 or Epson R300?

[Taliesyn]

Who is the Australian supplier you are using?

I got mine in late December, benefiting from an introductory special
on their website, which was considerably lower than the current prices.

Here's the web page:
http://www.discountcartridges.com.au/

And I'd check their eBay offerings for price difference:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZdiscount_cartridgesQQhtZ-1

I've had no problems with the cartridges, they work great so far. I'm
almost out of ink in the first set I put in. I ordered 7 sets at the
time. Best price deal. I figured that would last me at least a year and
then some.

-Taliesyn

 

[measekite]

What brand of blank carts come with screw top fill holes. I assume they
have a rubber washer to seal them.

 

[measekite]

The price discountcartridges in Australia charges for formulabs ink
cartridges is $7.00. Costco charges $9.00 per color for the Canon
BCI6. To me, the savings of $2.00 per cartridge does not warrant taking
any risk with 3rd party. To print fotos on an IP4000 will only cost
$8.00 more per set. The BCI3eBK is only used on text.

 

[Taliesyn]

What brand of blank carts come with screw top fill holes. I assume they
have a rubber washer to seal them.

You can view this unique cartridge at hobbicolors.com

Or view their eBay items for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=16199&item=6746222445&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

I can't comment on the ink as I haven't really tested it outside of one
photograph. But I like the cartridges. And no, there is no rubber
seal/washer on the screw. I see no need. I have them sitting filled for
almost a couple of months and they do not leak. The cartridges are
nicely made, not cheap looking. I don't know if you can buy them separately.

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

The price discountcartridges in Australia charges for formulabs ink
cartridges is $7.00.

Those are Australian Dollars, not US. They don't trade at 1 per 1.

Costco charges $9.00 per color for the Canon

BCI6. To me, the savings of $2.00 per cartridge does not warrant taking
any risk with 3rd party. To print fotos on an IP4000 will only cost
$8.00 more per set. The BCI3eBK is only used on text.

I got mine back in December, taking the savings package of 6 +1 free
for $25 AUS ($20 US), or $2.85 US per cartridge. With Air Mail shipping
to Canada and Customs fees they worked out to a very affordable $4.82
Canadian or $3.93 US for 28 cartridges. I only ordered the BCI-6 color,
not the BCI-3e black. My price was lower than the current offered since
I got the huge introductory special. You know, the early bird gets the
worm thingy . . .

That's $135 Canadian dollars for 28 cartridges. If I went to a depart-
ment store here and bought Canon brand cartridges, the price would have
been a whopping $700! Costco in Canada, in my area at least, does not
carry BCI-6 cartridges. The BCI-3e sets Costco sells are not exactly
cheap either - a set of 5 (3 color, 2 black BCI-3e) come to about $70
CDN with tax! So I think I got a lovely deal from Australia. I regret
not getting some BCI-3e blacks at the time.

-Taliesyn

 

[Burt]

For the price of the special deal on the hobbicolors kit - $16.95 plus
shipping - the price would be right for the empty cartridges alone. If the
cartridges seal as well as you said and function properly in the printer the
kit is so cheap that you could fill the carts with your own favorite ink (I
am using MIS) and not bother to try theirs! I use a separate syringe per
color and have a few spares besides. Using one syringe for all refilling
would be a nuisance for me as I would have to wash the syringe between
filling each cart. When one is in need of refilling I usually top off all
of them.

 

[colinco]

Begin PC Mag Summary
The Canon Pixma iP5000 is the next step up in Canon's Pixma line from
the iP4000 <http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1651974,00.asp>, our
current Editors' Choice among personal ink jet printers. Although Canon
bills both as photo printers, they're also good choices for all-purpose
printing. Significantly, the iP5000 offers even better-quality text and
graphics than the iP4000. Unfortunately, it's one step lower for photo
quality, and it's slower for photos as well.
End PC Mag Summary
[/QUOTE]
The reason I brought up the Photo-i review is that that reviewer was
able to produce excellent photo results that would not be bettered by
any iP4000. What went wrong at PCMag?

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You are speaking of what is referred to as "dot gain". The picolitre
measurement is not a size, per se, but a volume of ink. Therefore the
dot gain of the paper will determine the size of the "flat" dot. Plain
paper certainly has a fairly large dot gain, but specially coated inkjet
papers are designed to control dot gain. You are correct that some use
dot gain to "smooth" the edges of the dots, but they do not typically
"fill in" the whole area other than in darker areas. The dots typically
are found intermingled with one another and with some white paper
substrate.

Take a look as a print under a loupe and you'll see.

Dye inks tend to have higher dot gain than pigment color inks, because
they are designed to penetrate and spread in the fiber of the paper
which pigments sit on top of the paper for the post part. It all comes
down to careful control on the dot volume. They is in part why profiles
are created for different paper types.

There is a certain loss of color fidelity or accuracy with a four color
system (even one with low dye load inks). That is why many inkjet
manufacturers have added greens or blues, oranges or reds. The making
of blue from cyan and magenta, and red from magenta and yellow somewhat
limits the gamut available, so by adding a "true blue and red, or green
and orange, often allows for several advantages. Less dots have to be
laid down since, for instance, every blue dot is equivalent to several
cyan and magenta dots. That speeds up the printing process. Further,
the blue might be one that is out of gamut for a mix of magenta and
cyan. It is also more profitable for the inkjet company, since they
sell a lot more ink cartridges when the printer has 7 or 8 or more
involved. It also makes counterfeiting or 3rd party copies more
difficult, and makes the profiles more "ego-centric" to the specific
colors of the OEM inks.

Overall, for most applications, however, the idea of a simple four color
printer using a very small dot size and 4 full dye load inks, makes
sense in terms of use of raw materials, and fade resistance.

Art


SleeperMan wrote:

 

[Arthur Entlich]

The low dye load inks have at least twice the volume of liquid being
released per dot, and more of it is straight liquid that needs to evaporate.

However, the problem is you have a wrong profile for the paper you are
using on the 2 pl printer. You may have to print more lightly, or at
least with less saturation when using the 2pl printer.

Art


Taliesyn wrote:

 

[Arthur Entlich]

You are using the term in a very specific context that others are not.
My dictionary defines grain as:

1: a small hard seed...
2: the gathered seeds of those types of plants
3: the plants themselves
4: any small hard particle, as of sand
5: the smallest unit of weight
6: a tiny amount
7: the arrangement of fibers in wood
8: TEXTURE (As "sugar can be fine grain")
9: Natural character (going against one's grain)

Again, you are referring to "silver grain", which is fine, but it
doesn't preclude the use of the word grain as a descriptor for other
types of textures.

Art

 

[Arthur Entlich]

Well, if you want to get technical, guess what? nearly all color film
has no silver halide grain. It has dye clouds, since the dye is formed
around the silver halide and the silver halide is removed through a
chemical bleaching and fixing process. Other than some very rarely used
processes these days, no color films or prints have "grain". Only B&W
film and prints have grain. Also, some color films used potato starch
grains which were dyed during processing. I guess that wasn't grain either.

So, now what you gonna do? Stop calling color film "grainy" if it has a
lot of tiny discrete spots on it? Feel free, call it "dye cloudy", but
I think most people would best understand the idea of the film being
"Grainy".

Art

 

[Taliesyn]

For the price of the special deal on the hobbicolors kit - $16.95 plus
shipping - the price would be right for the empty cartridges alone. If the
cartridges seal as well as you said and function properly in the printer the
kit is so cheap that you could fill the carts with your own favorite ink (I
am using MIS) and not bother to try theirs! I use a separate syringe per
color and have a few spares besides. Using one syringe for all refilling
would be a nuisance for me as I would have to wash the syringe between
filling each cart. When one is in need of refilling I usually top off all
of them.

I fully agree with you; I do not like their idea of one syringe as I
always refill all when one reads "low". I bought just the "beginner" kit
with 1oz ink bottles.

I'll have to investigate the MIS website.

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

The low dye load inks have at least twice the volume of liquid being
released per dot, and more of it is straight liquid that needs to
evaporate.

However, the problem is you have a wrong profile for the paper you are
using on the 2 pl printer. You may have to print more lightly, or at
least with less saturation when using the 2pl printer.

Art

That's interesting, Art. Thanks, I'll have to experiment with this.

-Taliesyn

 

[SleeperMan]

You are speaking of what is referred to as "dot gain". The picolitre
measurement is not a size, per se, but a volume of ink. Therefore the
dot gain of the paper will determine the size of the "flat" dot. Plain
paper certainly has a fairly large dot gain, but specially
coated inkjet papers are designed to control dot gain. You are
correct that some use dot gain to "smooth" the edges of the dots, but
they do not typically "fill in" the whole area other than in darker
areas. The dots typically are found intermingled with one another
and with some white paper substrate.

Take a look as a print under a loupe and you'll see.

Dye inks tend to have higher dot gain than pigment color inks, because
they are designed to penetrate and spread in the fiber of the paper
which pigments sit on top of the paper for the post part. It all
comes down to careful control on the dot volume. They is in part why
profiles are created for different paper types.

There is a certain loss of color fidelity or accuracy with a four
color system (even one with low dye load inks). That is why many
inkjet manufacturers have added greens or blues, oranges or reds. The
making of blue from cyan and magenta, and red from magenta and
yellow somewhat limits the gamut available, so by adding a "true blue
and red, or green and orange, often allows for several advantages. Less
dots have to be laid down since, for instance, every blue dot is
equivalent to several cyan and magenta dots. That speeds up the
printing process. Further, the blue might be one that is out of
gamut for a mix of magenta and cyan. It is also more profitable for
the inkjet company, since they sell a lot more ink cartridges when
the printer has 7 or 8 or more involved. It also makes counterfeiting
or 3rd party copies more difficult, and makes the profiles more
"ego-centric" to the specific colors of the OEM inks.

Overall, for most applications, however, the idea of a simple four
color printer using a very small dot size and 4 full dye load inks,
makes sense in terms of use of raw materials, and fade resistance.

Art


SleeperMan wrote:

hm...very detailed explanation...and true, i guess...

 

[measekite]

Why don't you use their ink. Or if you have what was your experience
and why do you still want Formulabs ink?

 

[measekite]

I am using the word "grain" as it has been used in the photographic
industry for over 100 years. And that it refers to the silver halide
dots you see in film. Therefore, since prints from digital cameras do
not use film they cannot have grain. However, digital prints made from
scanned in negatives or slides may show "grain" in the result.

After all , this is a photographic forum so the word "grain" should be
understood.

 

[measekite]

It is accepted practice to refer to grain in color film. Even the film
mfg, the photo stores, refer to fine grain color film. We do not need a
play on words. It is obvious that the general photo population knows
what I mean so it is not necessary to be anal.

 

[Taliesyn]

Why don't you use their ink.

1. I have "tons" of my current bulk ink to get through. 2. I can wait.

Or if you have what was your experience

Photo was a tad "warmer" than prints from other makers. Need to
do more tests . . . someday. But you're welcome to do your own
experimenting. Don't just rely on word of mouth from others.

and why do you still want Formulabs ink?

Personal preference, closest to Canon (my tests and results I've read
elsewhere seem to agree)

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

I am using the word "grain" as it has been used in the photographic
industry for over 100 years. And that it refers to the silver halide
dots you see in film. Therefore, since prints from digital cameras do
not use film they cannot have grain. However, digital prints made from
scanned in negatives or slides may show "grain" in the result.

After all , this is a photographic forum so the word "grain" should be
understood.

No, last I checked this was a "printer" forum. "Grain" are the dots
that the printhead spits out that forms an image. Take a magnifying
glass and look at the prints: dots! (grains)

-Taliesyn

 

[Taliesyn]

It is accepted practice to refer to grain in color film. Even the film
mfg, the photo stores, refer to fine grain color film. We do not need a
play on words. It is obvious that the general photo population knows
what I mean so it is not necessary to be anal.

Hah! I needed that one. Still shaking my head in disbelief.

-Taliesyn