Can I use two DLink DI-524 wireless routers as a 'repeater'?

S

siliconpi

Sorry for messing up the terminology, but here's my situation. I've got
one DLink wireless router hooked within my office LAN (with IP address
192.168.1.100). It works fine - laptops are able to connect to it
wirelessly.I have an additional router which I want to use to
wifi-enable my home (which is about 40 feet away - but the concrete
inbetween doesnt let the signal of the first penetrate).

Now, can I have the second router configured in a such a way that

(a) it has no ethernet wires attached to it
(b) it serves as a 'repeater' of sorts to allow the laptops connecting
to it to access the office network

If so, how do I configure my 2nd router?

Lemme know if my situation isnt that clear...

Thanks,
Sid
 
W

William P.N. Smith

one DLink wireless router hooked within my office LAN

Do you own your office LAN, and/or is the company clear on allowing
you to use it? There are concerns about security, access, and
appropriate use of bandwidth that you and they will need to think
about. [For instance, no 'file sharing' apps allowed, etc]
my home (which is about 40 feet away - but the concrete
inbetween doesnt let the signal of the first penetrate).

Concrete is really bad, you are going to need to find a location
that's line-of-sight to the office LAN and your house to place your
repeater, and supply power to it.
Now, can I have the second router configured in a such a way that

(a) it has no ethernet wires attached to it
(b) it serves as a 'repeater' of sorts to allow the laptops connecting
to it to access the office network

You can set up many APs in repeater mode, though it'll cut your
available bandwidth in half. Not all routers will work in repeater
mode, so you may want to make sure you get a repeater or AP.

That said, Duh-Link products are notorious for problems, last time I
tried to set up D-Link repeaters with D-Link APs that they were
_supposed_ to work with I wasted about a week proving that it was an
unmitigated disaster and running wires to APs. [And then replacing
them all with Linksys WAP54Gs with WAPPOE power-over-ethernet, which
works really well.]
 
J

jimbo

Sorry for messing up the terminology, but here's my situation. I've got
one DLink wireless router hooked within my office LAN (with IP address
192.168.1.100). It works fine - laptops are able to connect to it
wirelessly.I have an additional router which I want to use to
wifi-enable my home (which is about 40 feet away - but the concrete
inbetween doesnt let the signal of the first penetrate).

Now, can I have the second router configured in a such a way that

(a) it has no ethernet wires attached to it
(b) it serves as a 'repeater' of sorts to allow the laptops connecting
to it to access the office network

If so, how do I configure my 2nd router?

Lemme know if my situation isnt that clear...

Thanks,
Sid
If the primary router can't transmitt a signal through the concrete
wall, how do you expect a second router to do so? Anyway, most routers
cannot be configured as repeaters or bridges.

Good luck, jimbo
 
L

Leythos

If the primary router can't transmitt a signal through the concrete
wall, how do you expect a second router to do so? Anyway, most routers
cannot be configured as repeaters or bridges.

Most quality wireless routers and access points have a "Bridge" mode
setting, and have for many years. Some require a firmware update, others
don't.
 
G

Guest

Yes leythos hit it. You dont need repeater you need a wireless bridge with
some high gain antennas. Or if you really want to come out of pocket you
could set up a point to point wireless.
 
J

John Navas

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

Sorry for messing up the terminology, but here's my situation. I've got
one DLink wireless router hooked within my office LAN (with IP address
192.168.1.100). It works fine - laptops are able to connect to it
wirelessly.I have an additional router which I want to use to
wifi-enable my home (which is about 40 feet away - but the concrete
inbetween doesnt let the signal of the first penetrate).

Now, can I have the second router configured in a such a way that

(a) it has no ethernet wires attached to it
(b) it serves as a 'repeater' of sorts to allow the laptops connecting
to it to access the office network

If so, how do I configure my 2nd router?

Lemme know if my situation isnt that clear...

If your home and office share the same power system, my suggestion is
powerline Ethernet to connect your home access point to your office network.
 
J

jimbo

Leythos said:
Most quality wireless routers and access points have a "Bridge" mode
setting, and have for many years. Some require a firmware update, others
don't.
Many Access Points have a bridge mode. Tell me of a router that has a
bridge mode.

jimbo
 
J

John Navas

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:55:59 -0600,
jimbo said:
Leythos wrote:
Many Access Points have a bridge mode. Tell me of a router that has a
bridge mode.

Turn off DHCP, and plug everything into the LAN side, leaving the WAN side
disconnected. Voila! Bridge mode.
 
J

jimbo

John said:
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:55:59 -0600,
Leythos wrote:


Many Access Points have a bridge mode. Tell me of a router that has a
bridge mode.


Turn off DHCP, and plug everything into the LAN side, leaving the WAN side
disconnected. Voila! Bridge mode.

You get no cigar. All you have done is create an access point, not a
bridge. And OP said he didn't want any "wires" attached to the second
router.

jimbo
 
J

John Navas

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 17:03:57 -0600,
jimbo said:
John Navas wrote:

You get no cigar. All you have done is create an access point, not a
bridge. And OP said he didn't want any "wires" attached to the second
router.

That's nonetheless a *host* wireless bridge. If the wireless router has a
client mode, then you have a *client* wireless bridge. Bridging is
independent of how the wireless works.
 
J

jimbo

John said:
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 17:03:57 -0600,
John Navas wrote:


You get no cigar. All you have done is create an access point, not a
bridge. And OP said he didn't want any "wires" attached to the second
router.


That's nonetheless a *host* wireless bridge. If the wireless router has a
client mode, then you have a *client* wireless bridge. Bridging is
independent of how the wireless works.
It's NOT a bridge. Your solution requires an ethernet cable between
the two routers. All you have with your solution is a second wireless
Access Point in the existing network.

jimbo
 
J

John Navas

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:22:11
-0600 said:
It's NOT a bridge. Your solution requires an ethernet cable between
the two routers. All you have with your solution is a second wireless
Access Point in the existing network.

Please stick to what I actually wrote, rather than your own interpretation of
it. I wasn't giving a "solution" there -- that was in my earlier reply about
powerline networking -- I was pointing out in response to another reply that
most low-end routers include a bridge, or switch if you prefer, that can be
used with the wireless access point. That's because a wireless router is
essentially a combination of:

wireless router
+-------------------------------------------+
| +---------------------+ |
| |wireless access point+---< antenna
| +----------+----------+ |
| | |
| +-----------+ +----------+----------+ |
WAN >--+router +--+ +---<
| |DHCP server| | switch +---< wired
| |firewall | | +---< LAN
| +-----------+ | +---<
| +---------------------+ |
+-------------------------------------------+

Thus if you disable the DHCP server, and leave the WAN port disconnected, you
have a bridge between wired and wireless network segments. That can be a
*host* wireless bridge (the most common kind), or if the firmware permits, a
*client* wireless bridge. The latter could thus be a solution *without* an
Ethernet cable, but only if there were a wireless signal, which apparently
isn't the case. Thus some sort of wired solution would seem to be inevitable.
 
J

Jeff Liebermann

(e-mail address removed) hath wroth:
Sorry for messing up the terminology, but here's my situation.

My list of different types of wireless bridges:
| http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FAQ_for_alt.internet.wireless/Wi-Fi#Wireless_Bridge
It's not complete as marketing is always inventing new wireless terms
as the technology expands. The thing to remember is that *ALL*
802.11a/g/b wireless is bridging because it operates on ISO Layer 2
(MAC layer).
I've got
one DLink wireless router hooked within my office LAN (with IP address
192.168.1.100). It works fine - laptops are able to connect to it
wirelessly.

I'll assume that this Dlink is a DI-524 you mentioned in the subject
line.
I have an additional router which I want to use to
wifi-enable my home (which is about 40 feet away - but the concrete
inbetween doesnt let the signal of the first penetrate).

That will work if you turn this router into an "access point" by
disabling the DHCP server and ignoring the router sections.
Now, can I have the second router configured in a such a way that
(a) it has no ethernet wires attached to it
No.

(b) it serves as a 'repeater' of sorts to allow the laptops connecting
to it to access the office network
No.

If so, how do I configure my 2nd router?

The DI-524 does NOT have have repeater mode. It also does not support
WDS (wireless distribution service) which is what you would need to
use to create a repeater, that users could still use to connect.

However, the choice of hardware is not the real problem. It's the
concrete wall. It really doesn't matter what wireless contrivance you
purchase, it's not going to go throught he concrete wall in a reliable
manner. You might bounce around the wall, of perhaps find some holes,
but in general, it's no RF is going to go through. Therefore, the
problem is not how to build a repeater out of a DI-524 (which can't be
done). It's how to send RF through a concrete wall.

Basically, your problem is "How do I get wireless to the other side of
a concrete wall. Here are some possibilities. I've done most of
these at one point or other and know they work. I can't tell which
will work best for your situation.

1. Punch a hole. Run CAT5 through the hole and install an access
point on the othe side. Use same SSID but different RF channel (1,6,
or 11). Do NOT borrow a hole from a electrical outlet as shoving
signal wires through an electrical outlet box is both unsafe and a
violation of electrical codes.

2. Borrow some telephone wires, CATV coax cable, or AC power line
wires to act as a bridge between the sides of the wall. Techniques,
distance, and equipment vary depending on technology available. I
don't know what you have available, so I won't go into much detail
here. Buzzwords and starting links:

Power line: HomePlug
http://www.homeplug.org
http://www.netgear.com/products/details/WGXB102.php

Phone line: HomePNA
http://www.homepna.org

CATV coaxial cable:
http://www.multilet.com/us/baseband/product_range/product_range.htm

You can run 10baseT-HDX over telco paired wires quite nicely. Same
with 10base2 Cheapernet over coax cable. If you have the wires,
there's usually a way of getting data to run over them.

3. Punch a hole. Run LMR-240 coaxial cable through the hole. Install
a 2-way power splitter at the antenna of your DI-524. On port goes to
the original antenna. The other port goes to the coax, through the
hole, and to a 2nd antenna. Half your RF goes through the hole.
http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/signal_splitters_2400_2way.php

4. If you have metal HVAC ducting, you can use it as a waveguide.
Install an antenna inside the ducting and hope that something comes
out the other end. Pay attention to the polarization of the
grillwork. I've used this when desperate. It works, but is not
terribly reliable or guaranteed.

5. If there's a connecting doorway, and the door is NOT made from
metal, then you can "illuminate" the door with a directional antenna.
Much of the RF will go through the wooden or fiberglass door. This is
really a matter of positioning the access point and antenna. I have
one such installation where the access point ended up hanging
upside-down from just above the top of the door frame, with the
vertical antenna projecting into the doorway. Obviously, the door
opens in the opposite direction. Works nicely but looks a bit funny.
Sorry, no photos.
Lemme know if my situation isnt that clear...

Not too horrible. The general form of such questions should be:
1. What are you trying to accomplish?
2. What do you have to work with?
3. What have you done so far and what happened?
 
J

jimbo

John said:
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:22:11
It's NOT a bridge. Your solution requires an ethernet cable between
the two routers. All you have with your solution is a second wireless
Access Point in the existing network.


Please stick to what I actually wrote, rather than your own interpretation of
it. I wasn't giving a "solution" there -- that was in my earlier reply about
powerline networking -- I was pointing out in response to another reply that
most low-end routers include a bridge, or switch if you prefer, that can be
used with the wireless access point. That's because a wireless router is
essentially a combination of:

wireless router
+-------------------------------------------+
| +---------------------+ |
| |wireless access point+---< antenna
| +----------+----------+ |
| | |
| +-----------+ +----------+----------+ |
WAN >--+router +--+ +---<
| |DHCP server| | switch +---< wired
| |firewall | | +---< LAN
| +-----------+ | +---<
| +---------------------+ |
+-------------------------------------------+

Thus if you disable the DHCP server, and leave the WAN port disconnected, you
have a bridge between wired and wireless network segments. That can be a
*host* wireless bridge (the most common kind), or if the firmware permits, a
*client* wireless bridge. The latter could thus be a solution *without* an
Ethernet cable, but only if there were a wireless signal, which apparently
isn't the case. Thus some sort of wired solution would seem to be inevitable.
I guess you are deliberately obfuscating. You have not answered any
question or proposed any solution to the original question. You
stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that your "bridge" is worthless for
the OPs problem. Calling the connection between wired and wireless
sections of a router a bridge is stretching definitions to the limit
just to avoid admitting that you don't know what you are talking about.

jimbo
 
A

Airman Thunderbird

If one frequents these newsgroups, one notices there are always several
deliberate obfuscaters in each group, who have developed the "angels on
the head of a pin" discussions to a fine art.
 
Q

q_q_anonymous

John said:
[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:22:11
-0600 said:
It's NOT a bridge. Your solution requires an ethernet cable between
the two routers. All you have with your solution is a second wireless
Access Point in the existing network.

Please stick to what I actually wrote, rather than your own interpretation of
it. I wasn't giving a "solution" there -- that was in my earlier reply about
powerline networking -- I was pointing out in response to another reply that
most low-end routers include a bridge, or switch if you prefer, that can be
used with the wireless access point. That's because a wireless router is
essentially a combination of:

wireless router
+-------------------------------------------+
| +---------------------+ |
| |wireless access point+---< antenna
| +----------+----------+ |
| | |
| +-----------+ +----------+----------+ |
WAN >--+router +--+ +---<
| |DHCP server| | switch +---< wired
| |firewall | | +---< LAN
| +-----------+ | +---<
| +---------------------+ |
+-------------------------------------------+

Thus if you disable the DHCP server, and leave the WAN port disconnected, you
have a bridge between wired and wireless network segments. That can be a
*host* wireless bridge (the most common kind), or if the firmware permits, a
*client* wireless bridge. The latter could thus be a solution *without* an
Ethernet cable, but only if there were a wireless signal, which apparently
isn't the case. Thus some sort of wired solution would seem to be inevitable.


what is the diff between a host bridge and a client bridge?

I never herd of client mode or host mode
 
J

John Navas

[POSTED TO alt.internet.wireless - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <[email protected]> on 8 Apr 2006
John Navas wrote [regarding common wireless routers]:
Thus if you disable the DHCP server, and leave the WAN port disconnected, you
have a bridge between wired and wireless network segments. That can be a
*host* wireless bridge (the most common kind), or if the firmware permits, a
*client* wireless bridge. The latter could thus be a solution *without* an
Ethernet cable, but only if there were a wireless signal, which apparently
isn't the case. Thus some sort of wired solution would seem to be inevitable.
what is the diff between a host bridge and a client bridge?

I never herd of client mode or host mode

When bridging over wireless, one bridge is in host mode (typically a wireless
access point) and the other bridge is in client mode (e.g., so-called wireless
game adapter). The host controls the wireless channel and security. The
client must be configured for the same security. Note that both the host and
(more likely) the client may have a limit on how many devices the wireless
bridge will support.

One common application for wireless bridging is on a sailboat. A client
wireless bridge (with antenna) is installed at the top of the mast, with an
Ethernet cable running down the mast for both networking and power. Multiple
computers can then be attached to the wired Ethernet network on the boat.
Case in point: SENAO CB3 Plus Long Range Wireless Client Bridge / Access Point
<http://www.idockusa.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4>
 

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