Building new Comp ...A few questions

  • Thread starter Trimble Bracegirdle
  • Start date
T

Trimble Bracegirdle

I'm an experienced Home PC user & builder .. Just putting a new one
together.
& I'm coming across a few small points I'm uncertain about perhaps people
could
clarify:
The bits: ....GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 ...Core 2 Duo E6600 ..2 Gigs DDR 2 6400
(Standard quality ..Micron ..800Mhz) 1 gig x 2 sticks......HIPER
HPU-4K580-MK 580W PSU.
.....Average quality SATA DVD x18 speed inc. DVD RAM ...assorted IDE & SATA
Hard Drives.
....GEFORCE 8800 GTX Graphics ..

Questions:
1) The (good quality) PSU has 2 x 12v lines...12v1 20 Amps ....12v2
18Amps.
I'm puzzled that the PSU manual shows the 12v2 line ONLY going to the 4 pin
P4 power
plug (the little one in the Middle of the Motherboard) all the 12v lines to
every other
plug / device is the 12v1 ...the spec. for the Geforce 8800gtx wants a lot
of 12v.
so I was expecting the 12v2 line would go there as well ??
Does the 4 pin P4 power socket really need this PSU's quoted 18 amp max. all
for
its self ??.

2) I have already bought 2 Gig's DDR2 Micron 1.8v 800 MHz RAM.. I have an
offer from an
upgrading friend to sell me at a low price "OCZ PC2 6400 1GB Dual Channel
Special Ops Edition " 800Mhz 2 x512 sticks ..now I think these are spec.
2.1 v ..this would give me a
nice 3 Gigs total..(about right max. for Windows XP or Vista 32Bit OS's .)
But will they get on together ??? I want to overclock to some extent so the
Micron 'Generic
RAM things would be likely set to 2.1v or 2.2v anyway .
I see VERY mixed reports Re: OCZ DDR2 mem.

3) I will now be able to use DVD-RAM ...Any point on a PC ??
Could I make a copy of the OS to a RAM disk & use it as a Backup Boot disk ?

4) I have an 19" CRT monitor ...to use 8800 it has only DVI output sockets
with an adapter for VGA cable...I have never used DVI output ..will this
give me any problems ? The way the VGA plug + Adapter will stick
a long way out from the Graphic Cards socket makes me think I will need to
support
that point.
4a) Would It be better to connect the 8800's fan straight to the PSU to
avoid the
auto-adjust feature on the card ? all my past Graphic card failure's have
been due
to the fan failing ...I want this very expensive card to last .

5) The GIGABYTE motherboard is well known..will I be able to add the SATA
drivers (from the supplied CD) AFTER I've installed XP from within Windows ?
Some sources seem to say it has to be at the Installation start or not at
all ?

Thanks Mouse
@@@@
 
J

John Doe

Trimble Bracegirdle said:
I'm an experienced Home PC user & builder .. Just putting a new
one together.
3) I will now be able to use DVD-RAM ...Any point on a PC ??

Any point? Could be.
Could I make a copy of the OS to a RAM disk & use it as a Backup
Boot disk ?

I doubt it, but you can use a disk manager like PartitionMagic or
Partition Manager to make a copy of Windows XP, then access your
partitions from the program's boot CD if necessary. From there, you
can do some file editing (Partition Manager) or replace the bad
installation.

I use a disk manager almost always from within Windows XP since we
hardly ever get shut out these days.

In other words. Sounds like there's no justification for a "RAM
disk". Not really the same topic, but that brings back memories. I
used to love the idea of using a RAM disk (in system memory). I
pursued that one for a long time, maybe too long. It worked for
early Windows versions.

Good luck and have fun with your new system.
 
J

John Doe

Trimble Bracegirdle said:
...GEFORCE 8800 GTX Graphics ..

I guess that's marvelous in lab tests, but I'm not convinced it's much
better for the price than a 7950 GT in real-world gaming.
 
P

Paul

Trimble said:
I'm an experienced Home PC user & builder .. Just putting a new one
together. & I'm coming across a few small points I'm uncertain about
perhaps people could clarify:
The bits: ....GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 ...Core 2 Duo E6600 ..2 Gigs DDR 2 6400
(Standard quality ..Micron ..800Mhz) 1 gig x 2 sticks......HIPER
HPU-4K580-MK 580W PSU. ....Average quality SATA DVD x18 speed
inc. DVD RAM ...assorted IDE & SATA Hard Drives.
...GEFORCE 8800 GTX Graphics ..

Questions:
1) The (good quality) PSU has 2 x 12v lines...12v1 20 Amps
....12v2 18Amps. I'm puzzled that the PSU manual shows the
12v2 line ONLY going to the 4 pin P4 power plug (the little
one in the Middle of the Motherboard) all the 12v lines to
every other plug / device is the 12v1 ...the spec. for the
Geforce 8800gtx wants a lot of 12v. so I was expecting the 12v2
line would go there as well ?? Does the 4 pin P4 power socket
really need this PSU's quoted 18 amp max. all for its self ??.

Something from the P4 Netburst era, could have drawn 130W, which is
roughly 12V @ 12A. So a 12V2 of 18A is a bit of overkill.

The 12V1 powers everything else, and if you believe the label,
you have 12V @ 20A. I've heard two numbers quoted for the 8800GTX,
and I don't know what to believe, whether it is 145W or 180W that
it needs. Checking a few articles, it looks like while running
3DMark2006 that the 145W number is more realistic. So that is
12A of the 20A total. Leaving room for 0.6A HDD, 1.5A optical, 0.5A
fans, plus a bit more.
2) I have already bought 2 Gig's DDR2 Micron 1.8v 800 MHz RAM..
I have an offer from an upgrading friend to sell me at a low
price "OCZ PC2 6400 1GB Dual Channel Special Ops Edition "
800Mhz 2 x512 sticks ..now I think these are spec. 2.1 v
..this would give me a nice 3 Gigs total..(about right max.
for Windows XP or Vista 32Bit OS's .) But will they get on
together ??? I want to overclock to some extent so the Micron
'Generic RAM things would be likely set to 2.1v or 2.2v anyway .
I see VERY mixed reports Re: OCZ DDR2 mem.

I'd test with 2x1GB first, and leave the expansion for a day
when another 2x1GB are needed. Have some fun with your system
first, instead of filling the box with stuff you don't need.
3) I will now be able to use DVD-RAM ...Any point on a PC ??
Could I make a copy of the OS to a RAM disk & use it as a
Backup Boot disk ?

Do you think that will boot ? My *guess* would be, there are
a limited number of formats that will boot a computer.
4) I have an 19" CRT monitor ...to use 8800 it has only DVI
output sockets with an adapter for VGA cable...I have never
used DVI output ..will this give me any problems ? The way
the VGA plug + Adapter will stick a long way out from the
Graphic Cards socket makes me think I will need to support
that point.

The dongle has screws to hold it to the faceplate of the video
card. And the cable has screws to hold it to the dongle. If
you tug on it hard, of course you can break it. But it isn't
going to fall off.
4a) Would It be better to connect the 8800's fan straight to
the PSU to avoid the auto-adjust feature on the card ? all
my past Graphic card failure's have been due to the fan failing
...I want this very expensive card to last .

Again, wait until you get the card, and check the temperatures.
If the thing is running 80C-90C, you'd be right to be concerned.
The cooling system looks to be pretty substantial on the card,
and might not need a lot of "user assistance" to do its job.

Actually, the most important part of your purchase, with a high
end video card, is a warranty that works. I've heard people getting
BFG to do the right thing, and one case of Diamond not doing their
part. It shouldn't take you long to read a few reviews and find out
which companies do not back up their products.
5) The GIGABYTE motherboard is well known..will I be able to add the SATA
drivers (from the supplied CD) AFTER I've installed XP from within Windows ?
Some sources seem to say it has to be at the Installation start or not at
all ?

Thanks Mouse
@@@@

There is some info here:
http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/matrixstorage_sb.htm

If an Intel Southbridge doesn't support RAID, then the native PCI driver
in WinXP is good enough. The Intel Matrix Storage Manager ("RAID driver")
is used when you have a RAID array already configured in the BIOS, or
are operating single drives in AHCI mode. The RAID driver can also be
installed, AFAIK, if you want a "RAID ready" configuration. With
"RAID ready", you can install on a single drive today, then at some
future date, migrate from a single drive, to a RAID configuration.
Having the RAID driver in place, means when the array is prepped,
you'll be able to reboot and use it, without any further changes.

(Intel Matrix Storage Manager - Migration to RAID procedure)
http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/cs-021703.htm

So, basically, you don't F6 a driver, if all you want is a simple single
drive non-RAID OS install. And you don't want to do RAID at any point
in the future. And that applies to drives connected to the Southbridge.

If your motherboard has other storage controllers besides the
Southbridge, then a driver would be installed for one of those,
using the F6 method.

Paul
 
T

ToolPackinMama

Trimble said:
4) I have an 19" CRT monitor ...to use 8800 it has only DVI output sockets
with an adapter for VGA cable...I have never used DVI output ..will this
give me any problems ? The way the VGA plug + Adapter will stick
a long way out from the Graphic Cards socket makes me think I will need to
support that point.

I agree that support is probably a good idea, but it shouldn't cause you
"problems".
 
T

ToolPackinMama

Paul said:
Actually, the most important part of your purchase, with a high
end video card, is a warranty that works.

Bear in mind that drivers and related software issues (Microsoft
updates) might need more patience and sorting with bleeding-edge technology.

I am currently engaged in a weird struggle to keep my Foxconn GeForce
7950 GT fully functional, despite the latest MS patches. My advice?
Disable Automatic Updates. ::grumble, grumble::
 
S

SteveH

John said:
I guess that's marvelous in lab tests, but I'm not convinced it's much
better for the price than a 7950 GT in real-world gaming.


There is is you want to run DX10..
 
S

SteveH

ToolPackinMama said:
Bear in mind that drivers and related software issues (Microsoft
updates) might need more patience and sorting with bleeding-edge
technology.
I am currently engaged in a weird struggle to keep my Foxconn GeForce
7950 GT fully functional, despite the latest MS patches. My advice?
Disable Automatic Updates. ::grumble, grumble::


I never let anything do automatic updates anyway. I like to see what is
being put on my PC.

SteveH
 
S

SteveH

John said:
Any point? Could be.


I doubt it, but you can use a disk manager like PartitionMagic or
Partition Manager to make a copy of Windows XP, then access your
partitions from the program's boot CD if necessary. From there, you
can do some file editing (Partition Manager) or replace the bad
installation.

I use a disk manager almost always from within Windows XP since we
hardly ever get shut out these days.

In other words. Sounds like there's no justification for a "RAM
disk". Not really the same topic, but that brings back memories. I
used to love the idea of using a RAM disk (in system memory).

Except the o/p doesn't seem to mean a Ramdisk (as I suspect you know), he
seems to mean using a DVD-Ram disk as a backup, which is unnecessary. All he
needs to do is image his new Windows install to a DVD-R or +R or two, using
something like TrueImage or similar.

SteveH
 
M

Mellowed

Trimble Bracegirdle said:
I'm an experienced Home PC user & builder .. Just putting a new one
together.
& I'm coming across a few small points I'm uncertain about perhaps people
could
clarify:
The bits: ....GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3 ...Core 2 Duo E6600 ..2 Gigs DDR 2
6400 (Standard quality ..Micron ..800Mhz) 1 gig x 2 sticks......HIPER
HPU-4K580-MK 580W PSU.
....Average quality SATA DVD x18 speed inc. DVD RAM ...assorted IDE & SATA
Hard Drives.
...GEFORCE 8800 GTX Graphics ..

Questions:
1) The (good quality) PSU has 2 x 12v lines...12v1 20 Amps ....12v2
18Amps.
I'm puzzled that the PSU manual shows the 12v2 line ONLY going to the 4
pin P4 power
plug (the little one in the Middle of the Motherboard) all the 12v lines
to every other
plug / device is the 12v1 ...the spec. for the Geforce 8800gtx wants a lot
of 12v.
so I was expecting the 12v2 line would go there as well ??
Does the 4 pin P4 power socket really need this PSU's quoted 18 amp max.
all for
its self ??.

2) I have already bought 2 Gig's DDR2 Micron 1.8v 800 MHz RAM.. I have an
offer from an
upgrading friend to sell me at a low price "OCZ PC2 6400 1GB Dual Channel
Special Ops Edition " 800Mhz 2 x512 sticks ..now I think these are spec.
2.1 v ..this would give me a
nice 3 Gigs total..(about right max. for Windows XP or Vista 32Bit OS's .)
But will they get on together ??? I want to overclock to some extent so
the Micron 'Generic
RAM things would be likely set to 2.1v or 2.2v anyway .
I see VERY mixed reports Re: OCZ DDR2 mem.

3) I will now be able to use DVD-RAM ...Any point on a PC ??
Could I make a copy of the OS to a RAM disk & use it as a Backup Boot disk
?

4) I have an 19" CRT monitor ...to use 8800 it has only DVI output sockets
with an adapter for VGA cable...I have never used DVI output ..will this
give me any problems ? The way the VGA plug + Adapter will stick
a long way out from the Graphic Cards socket makes me think I will need to
support
that point.
4a) Would It be better to connect the 8800's fan straight to the PSU to
avoid the
auto-adjust feature on the card ? all my past Graphic card failure's have
been due
to the fan failing ...I want this very expensive card to last .

5) The GIGABYTE motherboard is well known..will I be able to add the SATA
drivers (from the supplied CD) AFTER I've installed XP from within Windows
?
Some sources seem to say it has to be at the Installation start or not at
all ?

Thanks Mouse
@@@@

My new system is very similar to yours. I am using Vista Ultimate.
However, I only have a couple comments to your questions.
I would be a little concerned about the memory voltage. The default voltage
is 1.8V and RAM's that work at that voltage are necessary to boot-up. You
might want to get the system running first then increase the RAM voltage to
the new voltage before installing the extra 1gb. I couldn't find your RAM on
the Micron web site, however, please note that your mobo requires RAM timing
of 5x5x5 or 6x6x6.

My mobo is the Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Rev 3.3. It worked immediately with a
SATA HD and SATA DVD without loading any drivers from the Installation disk.
I was lucky in that regard as the Installation CD won't load. I get an
error message advising that XPRESS Install does not support Win98/ME when in
fact I'm using VISTA. I just trying now to sort that out. The system is
working perfectly from the beginning.

I selected the Seasonic M12-SS-500HM 500W power supply. Everything plugs
right in and has a power plug for the ASUS Nvidia 7950GT video card.
 
R

Rod Speed

Trimble Bracegirdle said:
3) I will now be able to use DVD-RAM ...Any point on a PC ??

That format is more reliable than -R and +R but its quite expensive media
so it normally makes more sense to have duplicates of different media instead.
Could I make a copy of the OS to a RAM disk & use it as a Backup Boot disk ?

Nope and it isnt a RAM disk anyway.
5) The GIGABYTE motherboard is well known..will I be able to add the SATA drivers (from the
supplied CD) AFTER I've installed XP from within Windows ?

You may not need them at all if you use a slipstreamed SP2 XP CD to install from.
Some sources seem to say it has to be at the Installation start or not at all ?

Thats generally true if you are installing on a SATA drive
but not if the SATA drive is just being used for data.
 
T

Trimble Bracegirdle

"""...using a DVD-Ram disk as a backup, which is unnecessary. All he
needs to do is image his new Windows install to a DVD-R or +R or two, using
something like TrueImage or similar...""""

I mean actually Booting & running a XP copy from a DVD-RAM Disk..
I know it would be slow ...but I want something to fall back on if / when
the main OS
won't start for whatever ever reason ..
Also I want modern / bigger Capacity equivalent to Floppy Disc.
Thanks for your interest.
Mouse
@@@
 
T

Trimble Bracegirdle

My conscience is going to pain me for some time over that Geforce 8800 GTX .
Idiot price to
pay for a Graphic card.
I play a lot of games ..& this last year having to fuss over the settings to
get best performance,..
& worrying over DX 10 in the future led me to just though money at it ..in
the
hope I can take my gaming graphic performance for granted for at least 2
years ..
(Thinks : Idiot !! why not the 8800 320Mb version..nearly half the GTX price
...
I know, I know ...(hangs head low)..& all those starving kids everywhere
!!!??")
Thanks Mouse
@@@
 
T

Trimble Bracegirdle

(snip) """""..concerned about the memory voltage. The default voltage
is 1.8V and RAM's that work at that voltage are necessary to boot-up.
.........(snip)...
My mobo is the Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Rev 3.3. It worked immediately with a
SATA HD and SATA DVD without loading any drivers from the Installation
disk..."""

Ahhh !! but that is / was VISTA ..sounds like I might have to install SATA
as XP install starts.
I've told friend no thankyou to his OCZ RAM ..the reviews are very 'mixed'..
I will stick with the 2 Gigs 'Generic' 800Mhz or add more of the same..

Memory prices seem to be dropping at long last, DDR2 6400 / 800 Mhz
can be had (UK /USA) for 1 Gig for £45 / $90 USD with careful shopping.

Our Gigabyte 965P-Ds3 M.Boards seem to come from them in sooo many
sub-versions
my new one is Rev. 2 ..the BIOS versions seem to have got to 9 or 10 in 8
months !!?
Still I choose this because of good reviews for this price level &
particularly
because my last / current Mother Board is Gigabyte from 3 years back.
I know all the quirks & oddities of there designs which is speeding my new
installation.
IMHO They insist on supplying 5 or 6 fussy Half-baked BIOS flash / System
Tune utilities
instead of 1 or 2 good solid ones.
The M.Board is the foundation dictating the rest of the Hardware & I have
been pleased with
the older boards performance & features.
Thanks Mouse
@@@
 
J

John Weiss

Trimble Bracegirdle said:
I mean actually Booting & running a XP copy from a DVD-RAM Disk..
I know it would be slow ...but I want something to fall back on if / when
the main OS won't start for whatever ever reason ..
Also I want modern / bigger Capacity equivalent to Floppy Disc.

You can do that by running an XP installation CD or by using something like
BartPE (Bart's Preinstalled Environment (http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/).

To do that you need a CD-R, DVD-R or DVD+R drive. Many DVD drives handle
all 3 formats, and they are cheap.
 

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