Building a new system

[GregoryD]

Need some advice on building a new system. I have some components
that will simply be moved into it, and I have a budget of about $700
dollars to spend. I will run games on this machine, but for the most
part, I will be using it to develop applications and run Oracle Financials
for training purposes. My current PC is going in the living room to
run emulators. I've just started some research on the differences
between the new P4 and AMD chips, both 32 and 64 bit models, but
there's so little software out there that's truly 64 bit nowadays that
it seems to be inconclusive. I will need at least 1 GB of RAM on the
new machine due to the size of the applications I'll be running.

Here's what I already have:

2 Maxtor 7200 rpm 80 gig HDs w/ 8 MB cache
1 WD 7200 rpm 200 gig HD w/ 8 MB cache
1 Geforce FX 5700 Ultra video card
1 ATI TV Wonder Pro video card
and the peripherals and stuff

Anyone have any specific suggestions as to the motherboard, processor,
cooling, case, etc? Just remember I need to stay around 700 bucks.

GregoryD

 

[Dave C.]

Need some advice on building a new system. I have some components
that will simply be moved into it, and I have a budget of about $700
dollars to spend. I will run games on this machine, but for the most
part, I will be using it to develop applications and run Oracle Financials
for training purposes. My current PC is going in the living room to
run emulators. I've just started some research on the differences
between the new P4 and AMD chips, both 32 and 64 bit models, but
there's so little software out there that's truly 64 bit nowadays that
it seems to be inconclusive. I will need at least 1 GB of RAM on the
new machine due to the size of the applications I'll be running.

Here's what I already have:

2 Maxtor 7200 rpm 80 gig HDs w/ 8 MB cache
1 WD 7200 rpm 200 gig HD w/ 8 MB cache
1 Geforce FX 5700 Ultra video card
1 ATI TV Wonder Pro video card
and the peripherals and stuff

Anyone have any specific suggestions as to the motherboard, processor,
cooling, case, etc? Just remember I need to stay around 700 bucks.

GregoryD

Well, you can have lots of RAM, or you can build on a budget. You want to
do both, and end up with a decent gaming system, which is TOUGH. First, I
think it's safe to rule out Athlon64, as I haven't seen a board with more
than three RAM slots for that proc., and it's pricey. So you are looking at
a mid-range P4 or AthlonXP. For the money, you'll get better performance
(more bang for the buck) going athlonxp. Try a Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2
mainboard. It's loaded, and can be had for about a hundred bucks. Plus it
supports 8 IDE drives right out of the box. (and room for SATA drives later)
Forget about using onboard sound for gaming, so pick up a Creative or Turtle
Beach brand sound card for forty bucks or less. Add an AthlonXP processor
WITH 400 FSB for less than two hundred bucks. (3200+ is doable) Start with
1Gig (2X512MB) of name-brand DDR400 RAM for less than two hundred bucks.
You can add another pair of 512MB sticks later. Try a Fortron brand
FSP530-60GNA power supply for about 80 bucks in any case. You should be
able to keep this below 700, even after adding a DVD burner. -Dave

 

[John R Weiss]

First, I
think it's safe to rule out Athlon64, as I haven't seen a board with more
than three RAM slots for that proc., and it's pricey.

Not even close! A quick search at Newegg gives:

ABIT "AV8" K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU (has 4 RAM
slots), $129:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-181&depa=0

with AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor - Retail, $185:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0 (add $38
for the 3000+ or $97 for the 3200+)

and 2 x Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - OEM, $168:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0

That's a total of $482 for the guts of a basic Athlon 64 system, leaving
over $200 for the case, power supply, fans, etc. They are also well in line
with the prices you estimated for the XP.

With the Athlon 64 you get the advantages of Hypertransport and the on-die
memory controller, upgradability (when the prices of the faster chips come
down), and ability to run a 64-bit OS when it's ready for prime time.

 

[Dave C.]

Not even close! A quick search at Newegg gives:

ABIT "AV8" K8T800 Pro Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 939 CPU (has 4 RAM
slots), $129:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-181&depa=0

with AMD Athlon 64 2800+, 512KB L2 Cache, 64-bit Processor - Retail, $185:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0 (add $38
for the 3000+ or $97 for the 3200+)

I agree that Athlon 64 is a good idea if the OP can fit it into his budget.
But I don't think a 754 processor is going to help him much if he buys a 939
mainboard. -Dave

 

[Fitz]

First off, you quoted a 939 pin motherboard, which is the FX series
processor (much more expensive). The processor you quoted won't fit in the
board you recommended. Second, AMD64 processors have the memory controller
onboard. That, coupled with additional memory "paths" make the AMD 64 a very
demanding system when it comes to memory. Any memory that has "Value" in its
name translates to "Cheap" in my experience, and is not a good choice for a
64 bit system.
From MWave.com:
AMD ATHLON 64 3200+ OEM 64-BIT BUNDLE W/ Details (FARCRY PC GAME; GIGABYTE
K8NS PRO; MWAVE COPPER PLATE FAN; NO MEMORY; NO TESTING) is $378.00.

Add 1 GB of quality memory (I'm using Mushkin Level 1 PC3500) and that's
another $350.00- and we're over budget without adding a power supply
(AMD64's require a minimum of 20 AMPS on the 12V line)- again, cheap isn't
going to cut it.

Try a AthlonXP motherboard/processor combo with 1 GB of decent memory. MWave
had come acceptable cases at decent prices, but you'll probably want to add
a fan or two.

Fitz

 

[John R Weiss]

I agree that Athlon 64 is a good idea if the OP can fit it into his budget.
But I don't think a 754 processor is going to help him much if he buys a
939 mainboard.

OK; my bad.

Instead, try a basic Opteron system (still at Newegg):

ASUS "SK8N" nForce3 Pro150 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket 940 CPU: $177

AMD Opteron Model 140, 1MB L2 Cache 64-bit Processor - Retail: $178
There are 2 other options for $1 or $2 more, and a dual-socket board (can
still use the 140 if only 1 CPU installed, but the 240 is only $14 more) for
$43 more. Options up to the 144 or 242 are still within the price bogey.

2 x Buffalo Technology 184 Pin 512MB ECC Registered DDR PC-2700 - OEM:
$236

Still at $591, which leaves $109 for the case and power supply...

 

[Fitz]

I guess since I took the time to criticize the AMD64 for 700 bucks idea, I
should give a reasonable option.
I picked the case pretty much at random, but it gives you an idea. All this
is from MWave, but there are other sites to choose from.
The motherboard has on-board sound that is very good- Soundstorm. It's
better (IMHO) than alot of sound cards, and more than
adequate for gaming (Sensaura built in). If the PS and memory seem high, you
can always go lower, but I don't believe in skimping
on power or RAM (quantity or quality).


ABIT AN7 BUNDLE W/ COOLING FAN (AMD XP 3000+(333Mhz); NO MEMORY; NO TESTING)
$233.00
ANTEC TRUE430 430W UL & FCC POWER SUPPLY FOR ATX CASES $70.00
ENERMAX CSX 10182-BA (BLACK) MID TOWER NO POWER SUPPLY & 80mm CASE FAN
x 3 69.00
CORSAIR CMX512-2700C2 64X64 333MHZ 512MB CL2 DDR DIMM W/HEAT
SPREADER $135.00 (X2 = 270.00)

Total: $ 642.00 + shipping

Good Luck,
Fitz

 

[Al]

Need some advice on building a new system. I have some components
that will simply be moved into it, and I have a budget of about $700
dollars to spend. I will run games on this machine, but for the most
part, I will be using it to develop applications and run Oracle Financials
for training purposes. My current PC is going in the living room to
run emulators. I've just started some research on the differences
between the new P4 and AMD chips, both 32 and 64 bit models, but
there's so little software out there that's truly 64 bit nowadays that
it seems to be inconclusive. I will need at least 1 GB of RAM on the
new machine due to the size of the applications I'll be running.

Here's what I already have:

2 Maxtor 7200 rpm 80 gig HDs w/ 8 MB cache
1 WD 7200 rpm 200 gig HD w/ 8 MB cache
1 Geforce FX 5700 Ultra video card
1 ATI TV Wonder Pro video card
and the peripherals and stuff

Anyone have any specific suggestions as to the motherboard, processor,
cooling, case, etc? Just remember I need to stay around 700 bucks.

GregoryD

Just a couple of opinions from my experience (shopping on Newegg.com
of course).

You can keep one PCI slot open by getting an All-In-Wonder radeon 9800
Pro AGP which has the TV wonder Pro capabilities and is a good
graphics card. Don't get the VE or "barebones" type.

I like the cases that use metal rails to mount the 5.25" drives from
the front. Then you only need to open one side of the case to replace
a drive. Mine is made by Enlight, but check the specific case see if
it has has rails. I don't know if the Antec cases have rails or if you
have to open both sides to change a 5.25" drive.

For power supplies I like the Allied 400 Watt.

Kingston ValueRam memory has been very reliable. Simpletech is not.

I did a search for MB's with a full 6 PCI slots and there is a good
selection of Asus and MSI Socket A KT600 boards for under $70. Soyo is
a little more expensive. You might as well get a board with 6 instead
of being 1 short. To go with that an Athlon XP 2000+ is a bargain at
$52, but let your budget be your guide.

A liteOn SOHW-832S WHT *double layer* 8x DVD retail drive is $86.99
However, it does not support DVD-RAM. The LG GSA-4120BI is $105.00 and
supports double layer and *DVD-RAM* which is popular for more reliable
data backup. They all burn CDs as well.

Any of the Audigy 2 PCI cards are good for general purpose video and
gaming. I suggest the M-Audio Revolution for audio recording, but it
has limited inputs and tends to be sluggish for other purposes.

Unless you have your mind made up you might look at the higher rated
Seagate hard drives. They have good customer service.

Good Luck!
-Alan

 

[David Maynard]

Just a couple of opinions from my experience (shopping on Newegg.com
of course).

You can keep one PCI slot open by getting an All-In-Wonder radeon 9800

The integrated tuner saves a PCI slot but it also limits what one can do
with it as the PCI bus can only burst in one direction at a time and that
means you can't use any post processing software on the TV video while
viewing it (video must go directly from the tuner to the display right on
the card). It also doesn't use the common tuner chipsets that most software
is written for.

 

[Al]

You're right about some limitations on the ATI capture cards - I
haven't found a way to switch between tuner and video input with 3rd
party software. But ATI does have closed captioning and text caputure
in their own software which might be interesting to some people.

The most common feature left out of a video capture card is a Stereo
TV tuner. The ATI VE version is mono. I think some of their models use
software MPEG instead of hardware.

The most features to look for are real-time hardware MPEG-2 encoding
and a Stereo tuner.

--- trim

 

[David Maynard]

You're right about some limitations on the ATI capture cards - I
haven't found a way to switch between tuner and video input with 3rd
party software. But ATI does have closed captioning and text caputure
in their own software which might be interesting to some people.

True. I just don't like being stuck with only their software. Especially
when their 'solution' to scrambled video is to fiddle around with the
display's color depth whenever it happens because they've heard some folks
say it sometimes helps. Then, next time, switch it back.

The most common feature left out of a video capture card is a Stereo
TV tuner.

There are plenty that have stereo.