Budget rebuild suggestions please.

[Don Malone]

I would like to rebuild my system which I built many years ago it feels
like. The system is pretty much as it was when built except for the
edition of a low end video card.

Current specs are

AMD Athlon XP 1800+ with 512MB ram (SDRam)
after market 450W power supply
2 hard drives (primary) 75 Gig (3 partitions) and 112 Gig (single
partition)
a DVD R/W
Full size Antec case (model unknown) ATX
Nvidia GeForse FX5500 AGP graphics card.
3.5" floppy drive (I guess it still works)

I would like to get the speed up to at least 3.2 GHZ (effective speed)
but would like to keep the cost under $300 to $350 if possible. A speed
of around 3.8 Ghz would be great if possible. I can spend more but
would prefer to throttle back cost as much as possible.

I know I will need a mother board, CPU (heatsink and fan), new ram.
Probably a new graphics card, and maybe a new Power supply, but I hope
not.

My big problem is I am so far behind on the technology; I have no idea
what to stay away from, or the possible pitfalls with the components.

The configuration does not have to have an upgrade path as I am sure
that by the time I rebuild;The motherboards and chips will have made
major leaps and bounds. It will be at least three to four years before
the next rebuild.

I have read and am still reading several threads here but so far have
not come across anything that seems to match my question yet. Any
advice is greatly appreciated.

I also am not locked into AMD or Intel. The system is currently an AMD
of course but it is not required as long as I can meet or nearly meet
my price goals.

--

I am currently looking at

Chip
AMD Sempron 64 3400+ Palermo 2.0GHz 256KB L2 Cache Socket 754
Processor - Retail


Motherboards
BIOSTAR NF325-A7 Socket 754 NVIDIA nForce3 250 ATX AMD Motherboard -
Retail
or
ECS 755-A2 v1.0 Socket 754 SiS 755 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

This would get me a base system that would use my existing Vid card
(which I know is junk) and a stick of DDR 400 ram (256MB to build on)
left over from another upgrade.

This would get me started for around $110 plus more memory and a PSU if
I need more juice.

 

[Don Malone]

Forgot to mention that I play some games on my computer but I don't
require the top of the line power and graphics of the $1,000 systems
out there.

It is also a daily use computer for browsing, email and light
programming.

Thanks again.
Don
--

 

[Paul]

I would like to rebuild my system which I built many years ago it feels
like. The system is pretty much as it was when built except for the
edition of a low end video card.

Current specs are

AMD Athlon XP 1800+ with 512MB ram (SDRam)
after market 450W power supply
2 hard drives (primary) 75 Gig (3 partitions) and 112 Gig (single
partition)
a DVD R/W
Full size Antec case (model unknown) ATX
Nvidia GeForse FX5500 AGP graphics card.
3.5" floppy drive (I guess it still works)

I would like to get the speed up to at least 3.2 GHZ (effective speed)
but would like to keep the cost under $300 to $350 if possible. A speed
of around 3.8 Ghz would be great if possible. I can spend more but
would prefer to throttle back cost as much as possible.

I know I will need a mother board, CPU (heatsink and fan), new ram.
Probably a new graphics card, and maybe a new Power supply, but I hope
not.

My big problem is I am so far behind on the technology; I have no idea
what to stay away from, or the possible pitfalls with the components.

The configuration does not have to have an upgrade path as I am sure
that by the time I rebuild;The motherboards and chips will have made
major leaps and bounds. It will be at least three to four years before
the next rebuild.

I have read and am still reading several threads here but so far have
not come across anything that seems to match my question yet. Any
advice is greatly appreciated.

I also am not locked into AMD or Intel. The system is currently an AMD
of course but it is not required as long as I can meet or nearly meet
my price goals.

There are a million ways to build a new system, some of which will
be a cleaner break with the past than others.

What I'm going to do with this proposal, is try to reuse as much of
your existing hardware as possible. So that the $350 goes into the
processor.

Buy one more stick of PC3200 512MB RAM. For this plan to work, your
other stick must be PC3200. If your other stick is not, then start
planning all over again. (Two sticks, is to get the benefit from
dual channel memory operation.) If you don't want to spend the
$50 for another stick of RAM, the motherboard will still work,
but it may lack in performance, if you do something memory
intensive.

To reuse an AGP card, there are some (overclocked) former chipsets,
that are being used on LGA775 motherboards. This board is an example.
When a Core2 Duo processor is plugged into this board, you MUST use
your FX5500 graphics card. The internal graphics in the 865G, apparently
only work right, if using an FSB800 processor. Core2 Duo is FSB1066.
This board will likely be lacking power management features, so it is
possible some features in that area on the Core2 Duo, won't work right.
Since Core2 Duo power dissipation is reasonable to start with,
that won't matter too much. The only thing that worries me, is whether
S3 suspend to RAM works or not. Note also that this board is not
overclockable - again, if you want overclocking, then starting fresh
and dumping the AGP card, is the right thing to do. But at least
in terms of (throw away) investment, only the motherboard and
the extra stick of RAM are a potential waste. (If you don't like the
motherboard or how the project turned out, you can switch to one of
the cheap Gigabyte LGA775 motherboards for Core2 Duo, pick up some
DDR2 RAM, and a $50 PCI Express video card.)

ASUS P5PE-VM Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 865G Micro ATX $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131029

A PC3200 512MB DIMM will cost about $50.

$350-110 = $240

$217 will buy you an E6400. ($309 would buy the E6600).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

The power dissipation may allow your existing power supply to
be used. If your existing power supply has the 2x2 ATX12V power
connector, then that is what powers the processor. That connector
has two yellow wires and two black wires. Note that the Asus
motherboard has a 20 pin main power connector, so that will likely
be OK with your old power supply.

The E6400 is a dual core. The main advantage comes, when
both cores can work on a problem. Half the filters in Photoshop
can use both cores at the same time. And some rendering programs
get double the preformance by using both cores. In other situations,
your advantage comes from being able to use the desktop (i.e.
continue to get good response) even when say, some DVD transcoding
is going on in the background. (Almost the same as running a
dual socket motherboard in the old days.)

If you have a lot of older software, that software may not directly
take advantage of both cores. And if you seldom do two things at
the same time (one in the background), then again, a dual core processor
is not going to help as much.

But, in any case, study the benchmarks here, and see what your
alternatives are. The E6400 is no slouch. I selected the AMD 4800+
as representative of the AMD solution you could buy for $240. (That
is not an exact apples to apples, but it'll give you some idea.)

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=433&model2=466&chart=178

If you want an old-style "Netburst" P4 processor, you can get a
P4 3.6GHz, like this one for $185:

Pentium 4 661 3.60GHz 800MHz 2MB 775 Pin PLGA Processor OEM SL96H
http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=703

But if you look at the benchmarks on Tomshardware, the 3.6GHz just
isn't the same. As far as I know, the following benchmark is
single-threaded (uses only one core), and you can see the E6400 is
faster than the 3.6GHz P4 you could get for $185. And in this case,
only one core of the E6400 is doing any work.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=433&model2=441&chart=179

So the above is a "transition solution", and by avoiding the
temptation to start over again, you can get a performance
increment and keep using some of your old hardware.

If you want to start fresh, with a Gigabyte LGA775 motherboard,
a stick or two of DDR2 memory, and a $50 PCI Express video card,
that is a perfectly good alternative as well. It'll cost a few
more dollars, but will be a clean break with the past. And if one
of those new motherboards lacks the IDE (ribbon cable) connectors
you need, you can fix that with a Promise Ultra133 TX2 card for
$30-$40.

Paul

 

[VanShania]

AMD Athlon 3200+ Orleans Socket AM2 64bit CPU, 2.0Ghz, 512k L2 -
retail box $115.84

ASRock AM2NF6G-VSTA GeForce6100 Socket AM2 Mainboard,
4xDDR2-800/667/533, Integrated GeForce 6100 Graphics w/ 1xPCI-Ex16,
1xPCI-Ex1, 2xPCI, 4xEIDE, 2xSATA300 RAID, 8Ch Audio, 10/100 LAN, 8xUSB2.0,
2000 HT FSB, mATX $79.84

OCZ Gamers eXtreme Gold Edition 1GB (2x512MB) PC2-5400 667Mhz
Performance DDR2 Memory Kit - Dual Channel optimized w/Gold XTC Heat
Spreaders - CL4-4-4-8 $165.84

ASUS Radeon EAX1600Pro 256MB DDR3 PCI-Ex16 Graphics Card - VGA, DVI,
Video-Out $109.84

Total 471.36

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
The most horrible feeling in the world is knowing that No One is There to
Protect You.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- Falcon 4, winSPWW2, winSPMBT, Call of Duty War Chest

 

[VanShania]

if you use the integrated graphics, the price is $360 or so.

--
Love and Teach, Not Yell and Beat
Stop Violence and Child Abuse.
No such thing as Bad Kids. Only Bad Parents.
The most horrible feeling in the world is knowing that No One is There to
Protect You.

A64 3500+, Gigabyte GA-K8NSC-939,AIW 9800 Pro 128mb
MSI 550 Pro, X-Fi, Pioneer 110D, 111D
Antec 550 watt,Thermaltake Lanfire,2 Gb OCZ Platinum 2-3-2-5
2XSATA 320gb Raid Edition, PATA 120Gb
XP MCE2005, 19in Viewsonic,BenchMark 2001 SE- 19074
Games I'm Playing- Falcon 4, winSPWW2, winSPMBT, Call of Duty War Chest

 

[Don Malone]

There are a million ways to build a new system, some of which will
be a cleaner break with the past than others.

What I'm going to do with this proposal, is try to reuse as much of
your existing hardware as possible. So that the $350 goes into the
processor.

Buy one more stick of PC3200 512MB RAM. For this plan to work, your
other stick must be PC3200. If your other stick is not, then start
planning all over again. (Two sticks, is to get the benefit from
dual channel memory operation.) If you don't want to spend the
$50 for another stick of RAM, the motherboard will still work,
but it may lack in performance, if you do something memory
intensive.

To reuse an AGP card, there are some (overclocked) former chipsets,
that are being used on LGA775 motherboards. This board is an example.
When a Core2 Duo processor is plugged into this board, you MUST use
your FX5500 graphics card. The internal graphics in the 865G,
apparently only work right, if using an FSB800 processor. Core2 Duo
is FSB1066. This board will likely be lacking power management
features, so it is possible some features in that area on the Core2
Duo, won't work right. Since Core2 Duo power dissipation is
reasonable to start with, that won't matter too much. The only thing
that worries me, is whether S3 suspend to RAM works or not. Note also
that this board is not overclockable - again, if you want
overclocking, then starting fresh and dumping the AGP card, is the
right thing to do. But at least in terms of (throw away) investment,
only the motherboard and the extra stick of RAM are a potential
waste. (If you don't like the motherboard or how the project turned
out, you can switch to one of the cheap Gigabyte LGA775 motherboards
for Core2 Duo, pick up some DDR2 RAM, and a $50 PCI Express video
card.)

ASUS P5PE-VM Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 865G Micro ATX $60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131029

A PC3200 512MB DIMM will cost about $50.

$350-110 = $240

$217 will buy you an E6400. ($309 would buy the E6600).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819115004

The power dissipation may allow your existing power supply to
be used. If your existing power supply has the 2x2 ATX12V power
connector, then that is what powers the processor. That connector
has two yellow wires and two black wires. Note that the Asus
motherboard has a 20 pin main power connector, so that will likely
be OK with your old power supply.

The E6400 is a dual core. The main advantage comes, when
both cores can work on a problem. Half the filters in Photoshop
can use both cores at the same time. And some rendering programs
get double the preformance by using both cores. In other situations,
your advantage comes from being able to use the desktop (i.e.
continue to get good response) even when say, some DVD transcoding
is going on in the background. (Almost the same as running a
dual socket motherboard in the old days.)

If you have a lot of older software, that software may not directly
take advantage of both cores. And if you seldom do two things at
the same time (one in the background), then again, a dual core
processor is not going to help as much.

But, in any case, study the benchmarks here, and see what your
alternatives are. The E6400 is no slouch. I selected the AMD 4800+
as representative of the AMD solution you could buy for $240. (That
is not an exact apples to apples, but it'll give you some idea.)

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=433&model2=466
&chart=178

If you want an old-style "Netburst" P4 processor, you can get a
P4 3.6GHz, like this one for $185:

Pentium 4 661 3.60GHz 800MHz 2MB 775 Pin PLGA Processor OEM SL96H
http://www.starmicro.net/detail.aspx?ID=703

But if you look at the benchmarks on Tomshardware, the 3.6GHz just
isn't the same. As far as I know, the following benchmark is
single-threaded (uses only one core), and you can see the E6400 is
faster than the 3.6GHz P4 you could get for $185. And in this case,
only one core of the E6400 is doing any work.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=433&model2=441
&chart=179

So the above is a "transition solution", and by avoiding the
temptation to start over again, you can get a performance
increment and keep using some of your old hardware.

If you want to start fresh, with a Gigabyte LGA775 motherboard,
a stick or two of DDR2 memory, and a $50 PCI Express video card,
that is a perfectly good alternative as well. It'll cost a few
more dollars, but will be a clean break with the past. And if one
of those new motherboards lacks the IDE (ribbon cable) connectors
you need, you can fix that with a Promise Ultra133 TX2 card for
$30-$40.

Paul

--

That looks like a much better deal than what I was striving for. Most
of my legacy apps fun fine on my 1.8 AMD system (which is what I am
rebuilding) but I was at the wall with new apps and games. Games like
Call of Duty 2 and 3 were to much for my system. Battlefield 2 would
only run at minimum detail and still hiccup. It was rebuild, replace or
watch the world go by. My wife said I could have some money to rebuild
my computer so I am really just starting to look.

My actual budget tops out at $500 but I don't want to spend that much
if I can help it.

I really appreciate your reccomendation. I used to be up on CPU's until
the 64 bit came out and when the dual cores came out; I had no idea
what was what. I have never been great with Motherboards and have been
pretty lucky with my rebuilds that I seem to luck into good boards (at
decent prices).

I am really liking the numbers from Tom's Hardware with your
reccomendations.

Thanks so much
Don

 

[Don Malone]

AMD Athlon 3200+ Orleans Socket AM2 64bit CPU, 2.0Ghz, 512k L2 -
retail box $115.84

ASRock AM2NF6G-VSTA GeForce6100 Socket AM2 Mainboard,
4xDDR2-800/667/533, Integrated GeForce 6100 Graphics w/ 1xPCI-Ex16,
1xPCI-Ex1, 2xPCI, 4xEIDE, 2xSATA300 RAID, 8Ch Audio, 10/100 LAN,
8xUSB2.0, 2000 HT FSB, mATX $79.84

OCZ Gamers eXtreme Gold Edition 1GB (2x512MB) PC2-5400 667Mhz
Performance DDR2 Memory Kit - Dual Channel optimized w/Gold XTC Heat
Spreaders - CL4-4-4-8 $165.84

ASUS Radeon EAX1600Pro 256MB DDR3 PCI-Ex16 Graphics Card - VGA,
DVI, Video-Out $109.84

Total 471.36

 

[Roy Coorne]

....plus ca. 100 $ for 2 x 512 MB DDR2 RAM...

 

[Don Malone]

...plus ca. 100 $ for 2 x 512 MB DDR2 RAM...

--

The previous suggestion from Paul seems more cost effective and fast
enough. I don't know how much the memory will slow me down but, the
system will be much better than what I am using now. I know I can't buy
a new system that good for $350 dollars.

Thanks again everybody.

Don.