Broadcast HD channels over cable

[Guest]

Hi All:
I currently receive local broadcast HD channels thru a comcast set top
box on my tvs.
I recently read the following on the comcast site:

"If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or
special HD set-top box to view HD programming?

Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
capability so no special set-top box is required to recieve HD signals for
broadcast channels.
When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital
cable channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or Showtime).
"

If no set top box is needed to receive HD broadcast channels on HD TV's,
does that mean I can use the ATI TV Wonder 650 tuner which has both Analog
and Digital tuners to receive the same HD broadcast channels on my PC with
Vista (or my Media Center 2005 PC)?

This is what the ATI 650 tuner description says: " HDTV with No Monthly Fees
HDTVEnjoy “free-to-air†HDTV or unencrypted ClearQAM digital cable
programming and see your favorite TV shows and sports programs in stunning,
true-to-life, high definition. As “free-to-air†HDTV (ATSC in North America)
is not burdened by monthly fees, watch with pleasure while avoiding the pain
of incurring any charges."

If the cable company transmits the HD broadcast channels unencrypted and no
set top box is needed, will I be able to receive those channels with Vista
Home Premium? If not, why wouldn't Vista permit that function?
My Vista pc currently recognizes that I have a wide-screen monitor and the
tv window is in widescreen format but I have an analog signal so the picture
only fills part of the screen and if I zoom the picture to fill the screen
the picture is not very good. It doesn't seem logical that the latest
operating system won't allow "free over-the-air content" to be viewed on the
pc via an unencrypted cable signal when the government wants it, the cable
company doesn't care and the pc owners want and need it to even
satisfactorily utilize the tv tuner on a pc once the standard changes to a
widescreen format in the not to distant future!

xiowan...........in tucson

 

[Guest]

xiowan,

This is not an operating system or a Vista problem. Free over-the-air HDTV
means signals captured via antenna. Cable is not over-the-air. It's a
closed system, and it's not free. Your TV uses a cable box, while some TVs
now becoming available have the equivalent built-in, to receive cable HDTV.
To receive HDTV via cable on your computer you need a special graphics card
that is made to do this. Your ATI TV Wonder 650 cannot do this. Such
special graphics cards are becoming available, but I've read that some bugs
remain to be worked out. You can get more complete details on this subject
by using google to search the Internet. There is a lot of information
available out there on this subject.

 

[Guest]

xiowan,

Her's a link to an article about a cable card ready PC graphics card:

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9703152-1.html

 

[Barb Bowman]

to receive HD in HD from cable, you need a pc certified by cable
labs, a cable card, and an HDCP monitor or TV. These are Digital
Cable Ready computers.

http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/CategoryView,category,CableCARD.aspx

Hi All:
I currently receive local broadcast HD channels thru a comcast set top
box on my tvs.
I recently read the following on the comcast site:

"If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or
special HD set-top box to view HD programming?

Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
capability so no special set-top box is required to recieve HD signals for
broadcast channels.
When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital
cable channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or Showtime).
"

If no set top box is needed to receive HD broadcast channels on HD TV's,
does that mean I can use the ATI TV Wonder 650 tuner which has both Analog
and Digital tuners to receive the same HD broadcast channels on my PC with
Vista (or my Media Center 2005 PC)?

This is what the ATI 650 tuner description says: " HDTV with No Monthly Fees
HDTVEnjoy “free-to-air” HDTV or unencrypted ClearQAM digital cable
programming and see your favorite TV shows and sports programs in stunning,
true-to-life, high definition. As “free-to-air” HDTV (ATSC in North America)
is not burdened by monthly fees, watch with pleasure while avoiding the pain
of incurring any charges."

If the cable company transmits the HD broadcast channels unencrypted and no
set top box is needed, will I be able to receive those channels with Vista
Home Premium? If not, why wouldn't Vista permit that function?
My Vista pc currently recognizes that I have a wide-screen monitor and the
tv window is in widescreen format but I have an analog signal so the picture
only fills part of the screen and if I zoom the picture to fill the screen
the picture is not very good. It doesn't seem logical that the latest
operating system won't allow "free over-the-air content" to be viewed on the
pc via an unencrypted cable signal when the government wants it, the cable
company doesn't care and the pc owners want and need it to even
satisfactorily utilize the tv tuner on a pc once the standard changes to a
widescreen format in the not to distant future!

xiowan...........in tucson

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

 

[Guest]

Hello Barb Bowman:
The cable company and the government aren't requiring a cable card to
enable HD "Broadcast" signals received via cable. According to Comcast the
signals are sent unencrypted and need no cable card, only a HD tuner. It
seems to me the only reason I can't watch HD broadcast tv with Windows is
because Microsoft doesn't want to allow it. The cable card isn't needed or
required by the government either; in fact they want the cable companies to
send the broadcast channels unencrypted so they CAN be watched over cable at
no additional cost, just like "over-the-air". To tell you the truth, it
makes absolutely no sense that Vista Media Center doesn't work for this. It
just discriminates against those who live in areas where over-the-air signals
aren't possible(mountains here) and for those millions of people who live in
apartments(like myself) and can't put up and antenna to get a good signal.
I can understand Microsoft wanting their operating system to protect the
"digital rights" of content providers but this is not the case with
re-broadcast, unencrypted over-the-air HD channels. There isn't a doubt in
my mind or that of most others that Microsoft could and should fix the Media
Center software to enable the reception of these unencrypted signals over
cable. No content protection is needed for content that isn't protected when
broadcast anyway......what's the difference if you get it over the air and
record it for later viewing or get it over cable and do the same? The cable
companies already have protection for the premium channels by encrypting them!
Please feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking and even more to
give an honest answer why Microsoft seems to be ignoring the already existing
protection by encryption of premium content over cable and using "digital
rights" protection as the reason for not allowing us to watch the only "free"
programming that will even be available before long. It amounts to telling
every single owner of Media Center 2005 and Vista that you MUST replace your
expensive PCs because Microsoft says so.......not the laws of our country!
This verges on being a monopolistic tactic used to FORCE the sale of ever
newer O.S. software and pc hardware.
The only way I can accept the incompatibility of Windows with the
MANDATED change to HD content would be for someone to quote the law that says
I shouldn't be able to get "unencrypted re-broadcast HD over-the-air"
channels on my pc. The O.S. software provider shouldn't be the entity that
GOVERNS access to free television programming........that's what we elect
people to Congress for! THIS SITUATION MAKES ME REALLY MAD! I urge you to
make the necessary changes to Vista when you put out "Svc Pack I.

xiowan.........in tucson

 

[Guest]

Hello "freddy":
Thanks for the info. Did you miss the part of my post that quotes
Comcast as saying they send the "broadcast HD channels " unencrypted at no
extra charge for use WITHOUT a cable card or cable box? I would assume that
if the Operating System properly handled these signals they would be fine to
use on a pc. I already have some of the best pc equipment available and it
is perfectly cable of meeting the demands of processing a HD signal. All it
would take would be for Vista allow their use. For more on this see my
ranting post in reply to Barb Bowman.
As I understand it, cable card pc tuners will only be available to those
willing to throw away their present computers(3) and buy one already set up
to receive the HD signals via cable card. I don't have a vendetta against
Microsoft, just what I feel is a legitimate complaint and if they weren't
practically a monopoly, they would probably include a fix for this in their
first Service Pack for Vista!

xiowan..........in tucson

 

[Guest]

Xiowan,

You ask, did I miss that part of your post that quotes Comcast as saying no
one needs a cable card to view their cable content? Here is your quote:

"If I have a digital-cable-ready HDTV set, do I need a CableCARD or special
HD set-top box to view HD programming? Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that
are now available have built-in HD capability so no special set-top box is
required to recieve HD signals for
broadcast channels. When used with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive
any Comcast digital cable channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g.
ESPN, HBO, or Showtime)."

Where does your quote say you don't need a CableCard? I think you said
that, but did Comcast say it?

 

[JW]

You are miss understanding the term Broadcast channels. Comcast is
transmitting those network Broadcast channels unencrypted that you can
receive OTA in your Zip Code with an antenna. They are not transmitting
unencrypted non broadcast channels such as ESPN HBO etc since these channels
are not broadcast channels they are cable only channels.
You can receive those Broadcast non encrypted QAM channels with the software
that comes with your HDTV digital tuner card, however they are probably a
subset of the channels that you can receive with an antenna connected to the
tuner card instead of your cable.
Obviously Vista MC is capable of processing QAM channels, however, the
capability is currently only being supplied with Cable Card capable Vista
systems. Hopefully in the next significant upgrade to Vista MC that the
capability to process unencrypted QAM channels will be part of the base
release.
If you are blocked by mountains from receiving any OTA digital channels in
your zip code then Comcast is probably not supplying them unencrypted to
your zip code either.
You can check at antennaweb.org to find what you digital channels you can
receive at your location with an antenna.

 

[Guest]

Hi again "freddy":
The quote from the comcast website makes two points: 1.
"Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
capability so no special set-top box is
required to recieve HD signals for > broadcast channels.<" 2. "When used
with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital cable
channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or Showtime)."
Point 2 is talking about premium (not over-the-air channels). What this means
is, you can buy a tv with a built-in HD tuner that you just hook up the
Comcast cable to and can receive the re-broadcast unencrypted "over-the-air"
channels. From what I've read this is what all the major cable providers
offer. What I want is the ability to do the same with my 3 Media Center pcs.
Hook up the cable to the digital tuner and receive the same over-the-air
channels you get free on the tv from Comcast. It's the same function you get
if you buy/rent a Tivo DVR for all the cable channels but would only work for
unencrypted channels (if Vista worked the way it should). I understand that
viewing content directly from the cable input without a set-top box would
mean no features like "On Demand", "Pay-per-view" and the "Interactive Guide"
but don't really want them since I like the Media Center interface better
anyway. I'm sure most people can't live without the premium channels,
pay-per-view, etc. But I'm not a slave to the tv and only have basic cable
and no desire to spend thousands of dollars a year for tv watching,
broadband internet and other expensive, time-consuming activities. I just
want to be able to sit in front of my 22" wide-screen LCD monitor and watch
the same over-the-air HD content that comes free if you have an antenna. I
don't see or hear too well anymore and sitting right in front of the monitor
and speakers allows me to continue to enjoy television programs. I will
probably never buy a large HD tv for the living room since I have to turn up
my hearing aids to hear most of program and the sound quality isn't too hot.

xiowan.........in tucson

 

[Guest]

Hi again "freddy":

The quote from the comcast website makes two points: 1.
"Digital-cable-ready HDTV sets that are now available have built-in HD
capability so no special set-top box is
required to recieve HD signals for > broadcast channels.<" 2. "When used
with a CableCARD, these TV sets will receive any Comcast digital cable
channels that you currently subscribe to (e.g. ESPN, HBO, or Showtime)."
Point 2 is talking about premium (not over-the-air channels). What this means
is, you can buy a tv with a built-in HD tuner that you just hook up the
Comcast cable to and can receive the re-broadcast unencrypted "over-the-air"
channels. From what I've read this is what all the major cable providers
offer. What I want is the ability to do the same with my 3 Media Center pcs.
Hook up the cable to the digital tuner and receive the same over-the-air
channels you get free on the tv from Comcast. It's the same function you get
if you buy/rent a Tivo DVR for all the cable channels but would only work for
unencrypted channels (if Vista worked the way it should). I understand that
viewing content directly from the cable input without a set-top box would
mean no features like "On Demand", "Pay-per-view" and the "Interactive Guide"
but don't really want them since I like the Media Center interface better
anyway. I'm sure most people can't live without the premium channels,
pay-per-view, etc. But I'm not a slave to the tv and only have basic cable
and no desire to spend thousands of dollars a year for tv watching,
broadband internet and other expensive, time-consuming activities. I just
want to be able to sit in front of my 22" wide-screen LCD monitor and watch
the same over-the-air HD content that comes free if you have an antenna. I
don't see or hear too well anymore and sitting right in front of the monitor
and speakers allows me to continue to enjoy television programs. I will
probably never buy a large HD tv for the living room since I have to turn up
my hearing aids to hear most of program and the sound quality isn't too hot.

xiowan.........in tucson

 

[Guest]

Hi JW,

I'm Freddy, not xiowan.
--
freddy

You are miss understanding the term Broadcast channels. Comcast is
transmitting those network Broadcast channels unencrypted that you can
receive OTA in your Zip Code with an antenna. They are not transmitting
unencrypted non broadcast channels such as ESPN HBO etc since these channels
are not broadcast channels they are cable only channels.
You can receive those Broadcast non encrypted QAM channels with the software
that comes with your HDTV digital tuner card, however they are probably a
subset of the channels that you can receive with an antenna connected to the
tuner card instead of your cable.
Obviously Vista MC is capable of processing QAM channels, however, the
capability is currently only being supplied with Cable Card capable Vista
systems. Hopefully in the next significant upgrade to Vista MC that the
capability to process unencrypted QAM channels will be part of the base
release.
If you are blocked by mountains from receiving any OTA digital channels in
your zip code then Comcast is probably not supplying them unencrypted to
your zip code either.
You can check at antennaweb.org to find what you digital channels you can
receive at your location with an antenna.

 

[Guest]

Hello "JW":
Thanks for the input. I live in a large metropolitan area with a large
number of broadcast (over-the-air) channels. These are all supplied
unencrypted by comcast for use with a HD digital tuner. In fact, another
resident has the comcast cable hooked to his big-screen HD tv and does not
use a cable box. I have long ago checked to see if I could get any over the
air channels with an indoor antenna but only 1 spanish language channel would
come in. Yuck! As you said: "Hopefully in the next significant upgrade to
Vista MC that the capability to process unencrypted QAM channels will be part
of the base release" will be implemented. Thanks again for the input.......I
really appreciate your efforts to help!

xiowan..........in tucson

 

[Guest]

xiowan,

OK, you want to watch via Comcast cable the same free programming that is
also broadcast over the air, but you want to see it using Windows Media
Center. You used tooooo many words to say that, and it got lost in all the
verbiage and rants. So, now you know the answer. You're jumping the gun.
That capability isn't ready yet. JW clarified what your're talking about.
Thanks, JW.

 

[JW]

Welcome. By the way my my previous post was deliberately after yours to
keep the thread posts in sequence. I should, however, have addressed it to
xiowan.

 

[Guest]

Hi JW,

Communications is not easy. Xiowan is not alone when it comes to getting
wrapped around the axle using words. Been there, done that.

 

[Guest]

Hi again "freddy":
I don't know if jumping the gun is the right description
lol........maybe "Microsoft is slow on the draw" is more apt! I would have
loved to record the British Open next weekend while I'm at work and watch it
when I get home at noon in glorious High Definition...........but no, I
can't record it because I'm unable to get over the air HD channels on my pc.
Darn.

xiowan........in tucson

 

[Barb Bowman]

I don't know who stated what about HD from Comcast, but if you want
to watch HD in HD using cable as opposed to OTA, you need a digital
ready pc certified by cable labs and a certified digital cable tuner
that takes a cable card. It isn't Microsoft who is enforcing this.

Hello Barb Bowman:
The cable company and the government aren't requiring a cable card to
enable HD "Broadcast" signals received via cable. According to Comcast the
signals are sent unencrypted and need no cable card, only a HD tuner. It
seems to me the only reason I can't watch HD broadcast tv with Windows is
because Microsoft doesn't want to allow it. The cable card isn't needed or
required by the government either; in fact they want the cable companies to
send the broadcast channels unencrypted so they CAN be watched over cable at
no additional cost, just like "over-the-air". To tell you the truth, it
makes absolutely no sense that Vista Media Center doesn't work for this. It
just discriminates against those who live in areas where over-the-air signals
aren't possible(mountains here) and for those millions of people who live in
apartments(like myself) and can't put up and antenna to get a good signal.
I can understand Microsoft wanting their operating system to protect the
"digital rights" of content providers but this is not the case with
re-broadcast, unencrypted over-the-air HD channels. There isn't a doubt in
my mind or that of most others that Microsoft could and should fix the Media
Center software to enable the reception of these unencrypted signals over
cable. No content protection is needed for content that isn't protected when
broadcast anyway......what's the difference if you get it over the air and
record it for later viewing or get it over cable and do the same? The cable
companies already have protection for the premium channels by encrypting them!
Please feel free to point out the flaws in my thinking and even more to
give an honest answer why Microsoft seems to be ignoring the already existing
protection by encryption of premium content over cable and using "digital
rights" protection as the reason for not allowing us to watch the only "free"
programming that will even be available before long. It amounts to telling
every single owner of Media Center 2005 and Vista that you MUST replace your
expensive PCs because Microsoft says so.......not the laws of our country!
This verges on being a monopolistic tactic used to FORCE the sale of ever
newer O.S. software and pc hardware.
The only way I can accept the incompatibility of Windows with the
MANDATED change to HD content would be for someone to quote the law that says
I shouldn't be able to get "unencrypted re-broadcast HD over-the-air"
channels on my pc. The O.S. software provider shouldn't be the entity that
GOVERNS access to free television programming........that's what we elect
people to Congress for! THIS SITUATION MAKES ME REALLY MAD! I urge you to
make the necessary changes to Vista when you put out "Svc Pack I.

xiowan.........in tucson

--

Barb Bowman
MS Windows-MVP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/

 

[Guest]

Barb,

This is absolutely not true. I currently have a linux/myth box with a
pcHDTV tuner that receives QAM HD just fine. This is possible with a number
of different tuners under linux and is also possible with an HD Homerun tuner
in MCE 05.

This applies only to free (i.e. unscrambled) HD channels, which for most of
us means local broadcast networks. In my area, I can get the 4 major
networks plus PBS. I have not tried to tune QAM channels with Vista yet, but
from the discussion here it seems that Vista prevents me using a HD tuner to
receive free HD programming. Not to start my previous complaint again, but
this makes even less sense than the cablecard tuners being only available in
new PC's.

IMHO, these are the types of issues that will prevent mediacenter gaining
wider acceptance.

 

[Cari \(MS-MVP\)]

OTA HD capture has been available since XP MCE 2005 and is the same for
Vista. No one is stopping you getting and recording the FREE UNSCRAMBLED
OVER THE AIR network stations. What Barb is referring to are the PREMIUM
channels such as Discovery HD Theater, A&EHD, ESPN(&2)HD, Showtime, HBO etc
etc etc all of which are scrambled and need either a PC equipped with a
cable card slot or a receiver box from the cable/satellite company to be
able to be viewed on either a monitor or a TV. With the receiver box, there
is no way of getting a component or HDMI signal to the PC to be recorded as
there is no tuner/capture card on the market.

The ATI HDTV Wonder was the first HD tuner card for OTA and it's been out
for at least a couple of years (because I have one).... and works just fine.

It's not Microsoft that won't let you record the premium channels in HD,
it's the providers, so if you want to nag, nag them not us.

 

[Cari \(MS-MVP\)]

IF (and it's a HUGE if) your cable box has an RF OUT socket, you should be
able to connect that to your HDTV Tuner card on your PC and record the Over
The Air free tv on a pass thru basis... provided of course Comcast does what
you say they do.

If your cable box does not, you're out of luck. S-Video is only SD.
Composite is even lower resolution.

Of course if you have no HDTV Tuner card, you won't be able to record
anything.