Bootable USB HDD

[Edward W. Thompson]

I am posting my experience in making an external USB HDD bootable as an aide
to others who may be having the same problem. My OS is WINXP Pro formatted
NTFS and the external drive is formatted FAT32.

I have an external usb/firewire enclosure in which is housed an IBM DJSA 230
2.5" HDD. I have been using this setup for about a year to store backups
and the like. I used the system on both my desktop (USB 2.0) and laptop
(firewire).

I upgraded my desktop to a system that has a motherboard that allows booting
from a USB HDD. I then tried to make my external enclosure bootable and ran
into complications.

Initially I simply transferred (sys) DOS ver 7.0 OS onto the external HDD
(FAT32), made the drive active in WINXP, changed the boot order in the
desktop BIOS and tried to boot. The boot process hung, although the
external drive was recognised. I then booted to DOS via a floppy and
repartioned the drive using fdisk, making a single primary partition. fdisk
identified the external drive as Drive 3, I have two SATA drives on my
desktop. I formatted the partition and reloaded the OS (Sys c from my
bootable floppy. So far so good.

I then tried to make the drive active, using fdisk and found that I couldn't
as fdisk will only allow the first drive to be made active and the external
drive is recognised as Drive 3. So back to WINXP to make the drive active
there (Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management). I changed the boot
order back to USB-HDD first and tried to reboot. The system again hung
during the bootup as before.

For whatever reason I concluded the problem may be a MBR problem so I tried
to recreate the MBR using fdisk /mbr. Fortunately before I tried that I
read that fdisk /mbr will only rewrite the mbr on the first drive in the
system. To rewrite the mbr for another drive (in my case drive 3) I either
had to disconnect my two SATA fixed drives (which would make the external
drive, drive 1) or find an alternative to fdisk. By searching Google I
found the symantec gdisk.exe, bundled with Ghost, will allow rewriting mbr
on disks other that the first. gdisk used to be available as freeware but
not anymore. Fortunately I was able to download an old copy of the gdisk
freeware version from a site by searching using Google. I recreated mbr
(gdisk 3 /mbr) and the machine now boots from the external drive without
problems.

I believe my experience only relates to previously used HDD. If a new drive
is partitioned using fdisk anew mbr is created however when an old drive is
repartitioned fdisk does not recreate the mbr. Why the mbr was the source
of ther proble, I have no idea. I don't have that level of knowledge, but
my experience suggests that if anyone is trying to make a previously used
HDD bootable via an external enclosure, re creating the drive mbr will be
required.

Before I embarked on this 'enterprise' I did look up as many references as I
could find on what was entailed to make an external usb drive bootable and
all my references suggested using fdisk, which for me gave problems, and
none indicated that recreating the mbr will/may be required.

Hope this may be of assistance to others.

 

[Nathan McNulty]

Just a note. You MUST have a BIOS that supports External USB Storage
Devices. If you have an Intel i865 or i875 Chipset, you can boot from
external USB Storage devices without any extra effort. Most of this is
trying to figure out a way to workaround the BIOS if your motherboard
doesn't support this.

 

[Edward W. Thompson]

Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear that my new
motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, who like me, may not
know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, at least in my case,
to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work around' if the BIOS
does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written, however imperfectly,
before you jump in?

 

[Art]

Firstly, if you read the post I think I made it clear that my new
motherboard does support booting from a USB HDD.

Secondly, the point of the post was to advise others, who like me, may not
know, that fdisk has limitations and the apparent need, at least in my case,
to recreate the mbr if the drive had been previously partitioned.

While I may be wrong, I don't think there is any 'work around' if the BIOS
does not support booting from the HDD.

My post has nothing to do with a 'work around'.

Don't you take the time to read what is written, however imperfectly,
before you jump in?


an DJSA and the drive references
as I

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge you cannot boot from
a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I don't come across
postings in various newsgroups as well as information on various web sites
that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard drive as long as your
motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to that effect. I've
worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of which contain a BIOS
element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to boot to a USB
external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating system. And I have yet
to come across a *documented* source indicating this capability is actually
achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external (FireWire, USB, Combo)
hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your
computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers who design PC
system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it is not currently
possible to boot your computer with an external hard drive.


I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue and here's their
response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical Support.


You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB drive that you have
cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be recognized in the boot
sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
motherboard that supports booting from external devices currently. This
really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local computer technicians in
our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my internal hard drives to
USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises, clone the external
drive back to the fixed internal one and under those circumstances the
internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard drive or witnessed
such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art

 

[Wislu Plethora]

-----Original Message-----
who like me, may
not at least in my
case, around' if the
BIOS USB HDD bootable as
an is housed an IBM
DJSA (USB 2.0) and
laptop enclosure bootable
and the OS (Sys c from
my Management). I changed
the The system again
hung before I tried that
I the first drive in
the By searching Google
I Google. I recreated
mbr external drive
without however when an old
drive up as many
references me gave problems,
and

Ed:
Based on my own experience, to the best of my knowledge you cannot boot from
a USB external hard drive. Hardly a week passes where I don't come across
postings in various newsgroups as well as information on various web sites
that state that "you can boot from a USB external hard drive as long as your
motherboard's BIOS supports this capability", or words to that effect. I've
worked with a variety of modern motherboards, many of which contain a BIOS
element indicating a USB boot capability, but I've yet to boot to a USB
external hard drive containing a cloned XP operating system. And I have yet
to come across a *documented* source indicating this capability is actually
achievable.

The following is from Western FAQs:
Question: Can I boot my computer using an external (FireWire, USB, Combo)
hard drive?

Answer: Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your
computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers who design PC
system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it is not currently
possible to boot your computer with an external hard drive.


I also queried Symantec Technical Support on this issue and here's their
response:
"Thank you for contacting Symantec Online Technical Support.


You wanted to know if you could boot from a external USB drive that you have
cloned to using Norton Ghost.



The issue at hand would be whether the drive would be recognized in the boot
sequence of your system. To the best of my knowledge, there is no
motherboard that supports booting from external devices currently. This
really has nothing to do with Norton Ghost."



In addition, I raised the question with two local computer technicians in
our area; both of whom stated that USB external drives are not bootable.



Using Symantec's Ghost 2003, I routinely clone my internal hard drives to
USB external hard drives. I can, when the need arises, clone the external
drive back to the fixed internal one and under those circumstances the
internal drive will be bootable.



If anyone has personally booted from a USB external hard drive or witnessed
such, I would certainly be grateful to hear about it.



Art

The OP stated quite succinctly, "The machine now boots from
the external drive without problems." Do you think he's
lying?

 

[Nathan McNulty]

LOL, I never attacked the OP, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was
just adding a little side note. Yes, booting off USB devices is simple
if your BIOS supports it. I don't even need a floppy drive since my
computer can boot off my USB Flash Drive. You simply have to have a
BIOS that supports this and set it up correctly. And just to note,
there are almost always workarounds. If you needed to boot off a USB
Harddrive and your BIOS does not support it, you use a floppy to load
the proper drivers and boot off that harddrive (which could all be
automated).

Again, to the OP, it was not my intention to offend you, but to expound
a little bit and offer examples.

 

[Edward W. Thompson]

You've certainly confused me now. What do you mean re your work around?
Load USB drivers from a floppy to a Hard drive, then boot the system from an
external USB Drive, unless I am missing something pretty fundemental here I
don't think so. The machine will not recognise the USB drivers you load
until the machine is booted up using the OS on the hard drive . This is not
the same as booting directly from a USB HDD when the machine reads the OS
from the USB HDD. Surely one of the most significant reasons to boot from a
USB HDD is to give an alternative means to start a machine in the event of a
failure of the fixed HDD system.

With regards to the rest of your post, I think I am justified to say I was
offended. I posted in good faith to give information to those who may be
trying to boot from an external USB drive. I had some problems that I
worked through and thought my experience may save others the same trouble I
had. Your post did nothing but implied I have mad it all up and that you
cannot boot directly from and external USB HDD. As far as I know, from my
searches of Google, there is not similar info available re problems of using
fdisk and recreating the mbr.

I really wonder what you do when you really set out to offend .

 

[Nathan McNulty]

I would like to hear you explain how I "implied you made it all up." I
did nothing but confirm exactly what you said. I only added that a BIOS
with the ability to boot from USB is required. I have tried to offer a
couple of examples that I use that can boot from USB (both chipsets and
my USB Flash Drive works).

Also, notice I never said anything about fdisk. The reason is because I
don't ever use fdisk as I feel it is outdated. I think it was great you
included that part and I never intended to attack that.

I can see you are simply going to see me as flaming you no matter what I
say, so just know that I never said anything that was meant to offend
you, but merely offer more information (as well as confirmation).

 

[Edward W. Thompson]

Please reread your original post as a response to mkine. I think you may
then understand why I and another thought you were accusing me of lying (in
the other respondents words).

As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.

It is to no ones advantage to prolong this and I accept your assurance you
did not intend to offend.

Moving to your more recent posting that suggested, at least this is how read
it, that notwithstanding the lack of a BIOS that allows direct booting from
a USB HDD there is a work around so you can boot directly from a USB HDD;
would you kindly explain further how this is done? As far as I know you
cannot load drivers before the machine boots, so how does the machine
recognise a USB drive during the boot process if there are no drivers?
Further, how do you select, in the BIOS, to boot from the USB Drive if the
BIOS does not allow this?