Bootable Disc/Recovery Disc Terminology

[Pete]

Hi everyone...Just found the group and am impressed - you sure get a lot of
posts here. That is why I have "pasted" a post that I wrote in another
thread below - so there would be a much greater chance that you all would
see it (besides Patrick). Please read it and comment appropriately. I
will be posting some more topics in the future. Thanks...Pete
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Patrick...Wow!... just found this group, and boy do you guys get a lot of
posts here. Please forgive my ignorance, since I get a little confused by
terms like restore vs recovery, which are often interchanged incorrectly
IMO -and then there are the terms bootable disc and startup disc, which can
also get confusing - and I have seen other terms used also.

So, would you please explain exactly what you mean by the "bootable XP CD".
I am somewhat computer literate, but get confused with all the different
terminology I have seen (by visiting other newsgroups, forums, web sites,
etc.) regarding "boot discs". I have a new XPsp2 home edition pc, and I had
a millennium before that (which I made a "startup disc" for in add/remove
programs - so I guess a startup disc is yet another term for boot disc - it
was only a 3-1/2" diskette (less than a meg), and it would get my millennium
to boot by typing "scanreg /restore" at a prompt that you eventually came
to.

For my XP, I immediately made a Compaq "recovery dvd" (it took 2-dvd's)
utilizing the "Compaq recovery cd-dvd creator" in start/programs/pc tools.
This dvd (can also use cd's but it takes 8 or 9 cd's I believe) contains
everything that is on the pc (from the factory), and which is also in the
system recovery partition D:. There is also something called a "Recovery
Tools CD", which I did not burn, since it did not seem necessary, after
reading about it in the "troubleshooting and system recovery guide" that
came with my Compaq. I will burn that one to, if you can explain what it
will do, that I can't ultimately achieve by using the "recovery dvd". The
manual said that one of the things the "recovery tools cd" did was to remove
the system recovery partition (drive D), so you could use it - but I'm sure
there is another way of doing that from within the pc once you got it
running using the recovery dvd - am I right - I've never messed around with
partitioning, since I have no need to.

My new XP did not come with any "bootable CD" per se, and I made the
"recovery dvd", as stated above. So please shed some light on what the
"bootable XP CD" is that you refer to (because you said that a "restore Cd
is really overkill" - I assume you mean the "recovery CD" that I mentioned).
Also please provide your comments on the "recovery tools CD", and any other
comments you have on the various terminologies I have mentioned above.

This looks like a good group, and I have some interesting questions that I
will be posting in the interest of learning more about windows XP and why MS
does some of the things it does. Thanks...Pete

 

[Patrick Keenan]

Hi everyone...Just found the group and am impressed - you sure get a lot
of posts here. That is why I have "pasted" a post that I wrote in another
thread below - so there would be a much greater chance that you all would
see it (besides Patrick). Please read it and comment appropriately. I
will be posting some more topics in the future. Thanks...Pete
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Patrick...Wow!... just found this group, and boy do you guys get a lot of
posts here. Please forgive my ignorance, since I get a little confused by
terms like restore vs recovery, which are often interchanged incorrectly
IMO -and then there are the terms bootable disc and startup disc, which
can
also get confusing - and I have seen other terms used also.

So, would you please explain exactly what you mean by the "bootable XP
CD".

A bootable XP CD is a Windows XP CD that can be used, like boot floppies
were, to start the system. A CD that isn't a boot CD will not start the
machine, and the system will look for another boot device. If there isn't
one, you'll get messages like "no operating system found".

All of the Microsoft XP CDs I have seen are bootable. Many Windows 2000
CDs were, and this is a major change from Win9x/ME.

This is why some systems don't come with floppies anymore - the single
bootable CD covers what the six-diskette XP boot set does.

The recovery console is one of the key things that the boot CD (or
diskettes) make available. Here are some details:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=314058

I am somewhat computer literate, but get confused with all the different
terminology I have seen (by visiting other newsgroups, forums, web sites,
etc.) regarding "boot discs". I have a new XPsp2 home edition pc, and I
had
a millennium before that (which I made a "startup disc" for in add/remove
programs - so I guess a startup disc is yet another term for boot disc -
it
was only a 3-1/2" diskette (less than a meg), and it would get my
millennium
to boot by typing "scanreg /restore" at a prompt that you eventually came
to.

Yes they are conceptually the same thing. However, Win9x/ME boot floppies
are often useless with XP systems since they do not permit access to
NTFS-formatted disks. Most XP systems are now NTFS, particularly if they
have over 40 gig drives.

For my XP, I immediately made a Compaq "recovery dvd" (it took 2-dvd's)
utilizing the "Compaq recovery cd-dvd creator" in start/programs/pc tools.
This dvd (can also use cd's but it takes 8 or 9 cd's I believe) contains
everything that is on the pc (from the factory), and which is also in the
system recovery partition D:. There is also something called a "Recovery
Tools CD", which I did not burn, since it did not seem necessary, after
reading about it in the "troubleshooting and system recovery guide" that
came with my Compaq. I will burn that one to, if you can explain what it
will do, that I can't ultimately achieve by using the "recovery dvd".

Depends on what the tools are. I don;t know what they provide.

The
manual said that one of the things the "recovery tools cd" did was to
remove
the system recovery partition (drive D), so you could use it - but I'm
sure
there is another way of doing that from within the pc once you got it
running using the recovery dvd - am I right - I've never messed around
with
partitioning, since I have no need to.

YEs, you could remove and replace and reformat the hidden partition using
native XP tools. However, you cannot merge or resize partitions using those
tools.

My new XP did not come with any "bootable CD" per se, and I made the
"recovery dvd", as stated above.

You'll want to examine the manuals for these disks. Ideally, you want to
be able to boot the system to the recovery console and to run a repair
install. If they permit this, this is good and sufficient.

So please shed some light on what the
"bootable XP CD" is that you refer to (because you said that a "restore Cd
is really overkill" - I assume you mean the "recovery CD" that I
mentioned).

Restore CDs often set a system back to the way it was at the factory
(restore to factory specs). Often, this also has the effect of removing
*all* user data. So, to simply run a tool available in the repair console,
wiping the drive is overkill and often very undesirable.

Stock MS bootable XP CDs allow entry to the recovery console, and also
permit repair installs (which do not affect user accounts or data) or
full/parallel installs (Which DO affect some accounts and user data).

An example of the difference is this:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=307545

This is a fairly common bit of registry damage that prevents Windows from
booting. If you've a way to boot to the recovery console, you can fix it
in ten minutes or so. Restoring the system to factory is hardly needed.

This is also a good example of why having System Restore is on. System
Restore keeps regular backups of the registry, but *not* of user data.

Check the documentation for your system to see what recovery options it
provides and how to access them.

Also please provide your comments on the "recovery tools CD", and any
other
comments you have on the various terminologies I have mentioned above.

Comments above, but I don't know what the tools are that Compaq provides.

This looks like a good group, and I have some interesting questions that I
will be posting in the interest of learning more about windows XP and why
MS
does some of the things it does. Thanks...Pete

I read here to learn things. YEs, it can be very helpful.

-pk

 

[Pete]

Patrick...Thanks for spending all the time to respond. I am still a little
confused. See my inline comments. I'll be writing on more stuff in the
future. It looks like you guys get over a hundred posts a day. Do you read
them all <g>...Pete

A bootable XP CD is a Windows XP CD that can be used,

Patrick...but where do you get this bootable CD for XP. I told you none
came with my computer and the only thing I could do was burn a recovery
disc. Incidentally, you can do a "standard" or a "system" recovery off the
D partition, or from your recovery disc you make - the standard recovery
will not touch your data - the sytem wipes everything - since you made
reference to losing your data below...Pete

like boot floppies

were, to start the system. A CD that isn't a boot CD will not start the
machine, and the system will look for another boot device. If there isn't
one, you'll get messages like "no operating system found".

All of the Microsoft XP CDs I have seen are bootable. Many Windows 2000
CDs were, and this is a major change from Win9x/ME.

This is why some systems don't come with floppies anymore - the single
bootable CD covers what the six-diskette XP boot set does.

The recovery console is one of the key things that the boot CD (or
diskettes) make available. Here are some details:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=314058



Yes they are conceptually the same thing. However, Win9x/ME boot floppies
are often useless with XP systems since they do not permit access to
NTFS-formatted disks. Most XP systems are now NTFS, particularly if they
have over 40 gig drives.

Patrick...I understand, so I will repeat, where do I get a bootable disc for
my XPsp2, none came with the computer, and all I could do was burn the
recovery disc (which is the "bootable disc" since its the only one I have),
which contains the whole works, and is overkill if all you want to do is get
into the standard or system recovery with a small size bootable disc. It's
good to have the total backup anyway, in case something happened to the
recovery partition, and I would have made it anyway, but I have no small
size bootable disc. I guess its a moot point since if something goes wrong
I would just use the recovery disc I made as a "bootable disc". I'm sorry
for repeating myself...Pete

Depends on what the tools are. I don;t know what they provide.



YEs, you could remove and replace and reformat the hidden partition using
native XP tools. However, you cannot merge or resize partitions using
those tools.


You'll want to examine the manuals for these disks. Ideally, you want to
be able to boot the system to the recovery console and to run a repair
install. If they permit this, this is good and sufficient.

Patrick...there is no mentiong of bootable discs in the manuals, only the
"recovery discs", and the "recovery tools cd" I mentioned above. I am
repeating myself...Pete

Restore CDs often set a system back to the way it was at the factory
(restore to factory specs). Often, this also has the effect of removing
*all* user data. So, to simply run a tool available in the repair
console, wiping the drive is overkill and often very undesirable.

Stock MS bootable XP CDs allow entry to the recovery console, and also
permit repair installs (which do not affect user accounts or data) or
full/parallel installs (Which DO affect some accounts and user data).

Patrick...I will burn the a disc for the "recovery tools CD". I read about
it again, and apparently you can use it to start the "Microsoft recovery
console", which is good. You can use one CD for this so it is small...Pete

 

[Patrick Keenan]

Patrick...Thanks for spending all the time to respond. I am still a
little confused. See my inline comments. I'll be writing on more stuff
in the future. It looks like you guys get over a hundred posts a day. Do
you read them all <g>...Pete

Actually I just happened to be passing by here. I don't always hang out
here.

Patrick...but where do you get this bootable CD for XP.

Microsoft sells them as Windows XP CDs, and some - not all - manufacturers
provide them with system purchases. I personally feel it's false economy
for a manufacturer to not provide one. However, they are within the terms
of their license agreement with MS.

Check the details for your system recovery disk, and try booting the system
with it. If it starts the system and presents you with various options,
it's a bootable disk.

I told you none came with my computer and the only thing I could do was
burn a recovery disc. Incidentally, you can do a "standard" or a "system"
recovery off the D partition, or from your recovery disc you make - the
standard recovery will not touch your data - the sytem wipes everything -
since you made reference to losing your data below...Pete

Good. They do provide a way to keep your data. You do want to be aware
of this and how it works; when you finally need it is not the best time to
learn about it.

like boot floppies

Patrick...I understand, so I will repeat, where do I get a bootable disc
for my XPsp2,

Actually it is sounding like you've made the bootable disks following the
directions. And you do want to make the recovery tools CD.

none came with the computer, and all I could do was burn the recovery disc
(which is the "bootable disc" since its the only one I have), which
contains the whole works, and is overkill if all you want to do is get
into the standard or system recovery with a small size bootable disc. It's
good to have the total backup anyway, in case something happened to the
recovery partition, and I would have made it anyway, but I have no small
size bootable disc. I guess its a moot point since if something goes
wrong I would just use the recovery disc I made as a "bootable disc". I'm
sorry for repeating myself...Pete

Examine the documentation for the disks you made. One of these sounds
like it replaces just the Windows files (a repair install with a custom
registry) and the other replaces *everything* including applications,
directory structures, and data - probably starting with deleting and
recreating the partitions. That one will throw your data away.

Patrick...there is no mentiong of bootable discs in the manuals, only the
"recovery discs", and the "recovery tools cd" I mentioned above. I am
repeating myself...Pete

Sometimes manufacturers use terminology that differs slightly. The
recovery tools CD sounds like a bootable CD that has the Recovery Console
files on it.

All of these disks are most likely bootable, and it's very easy to find
out. Pop one in, and restart the system. Just be careful as they will
start the setup processes, which you don't want to do. They will want
input from you - take care not to provide input that tells it to proceed,
just to exit.

Patrick...I will burn the a disc for the "recovery tools CD". I read
about it again, and apparently you can use it to start the "Microsoft
recovery console", which is good. You can use one CD for this so it is
small...Pete

If it gets you into the recovery console, then it's certainly bootable and
yes, you want to have one of these. The recovery console CD is *extremely*
useful when you need it.

HTH
-pk

 

[Pete]

Patrick...just wanted to thank you again for all your time and your inputs.
It's a shame you don't hang out here, you are a smart guy. I'll be posting
from time to time, trying to figure out why Bill Gate's programmers do what
they do (lol)...Pete