Bloat, Hidden Files consuming Disk Space

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Dear All:

I performed a Clean Install of Windows Vista Ultimate, on a new computer. I
loaded all of my software in preparation of switching my production system
from WXP to Vista. I then noticed something about the disk space.

I have 232 GB drive and C Properties indicated I was using 69 GB. Looking at
the drive with Windows Explorer (Folder options are set to show all files),
I tag all files and the properties show I am using 19 GB of storage. That is
correct, as it is similar to the amount of storage used on several Vista
beta systems. So, where is the missing 50 GB?

I found a program, WinDirStat (http://windirstat.info/) which confirms I am
missing 50 GB as it does the same math I do and it labels the missing amount
as Unknown. That is not terrible useful, as one would like to know what the
actual files are.

I did all of the usual cleaning up (Disk Cleanup, clear the Recycle bin,
remove all System Points and turn of Shadow Copies). The System Volume
Information folder has only 20 KB of files in it. I surfed the Internet
looking for other file management software which would show the missing
files. I did not find any.

Any suggestions?

Thank you.

Cheers,

Jeff V. Pulver
www.a.acom
http://www.a.com

 

[Malu Menezes [MSFT]]

Hi,

I have to be honest with you, I perform the same steps you described in my
system and it worked fine - it reports the used disk space that I'm actually
using.

There is a stats software that I like, but it's shareware - free to try for
30 days. You might want to try this. It gives you a list of folders that
contains "unknown" files, so seems to give you little bit more information.

http://www.sixty-five.cc/sm/

Let me know what you find

--Malu

 

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Dear Malu:

This is a start; I am talking with someone from MS. I can provide you with
screen shots, of Vista functions, showing the disk usage. In addition, I am
running WinDirStat (http://windirstat.info/). It cannot see the files, but
it determines they are there by doing the same math I did. Setting Options |
Show Unknown, it shows the size of the missing files, as a single entity
called, "Unknown.".

http://www.sixty-five.cc/sm/

Let me know what you find <<

I installed that software. It sort of found the mystery files. Instead of
"Unknown" it is calling them, "Unscannaed." The graphics for that space also
says: "Unscannable folders: 42."

So, why does the Properties of the Drive show the files but no other native
MS software mentions anything about them? On the same system I have a
second drive, identical to the first. The two numbers match exactly on that
drive.

What is really frustrating is this was to become my new Production system. I
built the computer, performed a Clean Install of Windows Vista Ultimate,
then I installed all of my required software. I was really surprised when I
first noticed how much disk space was used. I also noted a similar problem
on the Vista beta and I reported it but I did not hear back on that issue. I
have another Vista ultimate system, and the numbers for the two functions
are close to the same for the C drive.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Jeff V. Pulver

 

[Malu Menezes [MSFT]]

This other software I gave you actually gives a list of all unscannable
folders you have - that's why I thought it should be a good hint.
In the treemap page, you'll see a gray area saying "unscanned". Right click
that area, and choose "List unscannable folders". It will show you the path
of all folders they can't scan - usually system protected stuff - and also
the probable reason why it couldn't be scanned - system security, for
instance.

Anyway, Spacemonger it's just a software that I like to use for my own
amusement Other people here use other stuff.

I'm going to ask some people around if they know what's happening. Will get
back to you, ok?

--Malu

 

[Malu Menezes [MSFT]]

Ok, I'm back

First point... This shouldn't be happening. You should be able to see the
actual space in the disk.

That being said...

A friend here told me the following:

---

Something a bit similar to this happened to me in XP.

In *my* case, what happened was that I had the XXXXX (some
antivirus/protection application) installed and it has an enhanced recycle
bin or something like that.
Basically what it did was that every time I uninstalled a program (or
deleted certain files), that software would move the data to some hidden
place in the disk that only the said software could see.

I imagine it had a file system filter driver installed so that it obscured
files from the system. This means there is no way to make these files to
show up in Windows Explorer or something like that.

It was so annoying! And it may be the case of our customer. This is simple
to test, however: all he has to do is install some super large program (say,
a modern PC game) and then uninstall it afterwards, and see if there is disk
space reclaimed by the uninstall operation. If there's not, then he probably
is a victim of such "utility". If this is the case, then the only way he can
reclaim his lost 50GB is via that app. (And for some reason, I couldn't
reclaim all the space, when I had that installed).

---

Let me know if that info gives you some insight!

--Malu

 

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Dear Malu:

Thank you for that hint. I did everything except right-click the area. I am
researching those files now. It was a challenge getting a screen shot of
them. It would have been nice if SM allowed one top copy tat list of files
to the clipboard..

In any event, I will be registering SM, as I think it is a worthwhile
addition to my toolbox.

I am researching those files to see who the culprit is and hopefully learn
why. I found out the culprit.

It may have been caused by me; I have no idea why and more importatnly, I do
not know why the file was hidden. Here is what I found.

The problem was with folder: C:\Windows\CSC\v2.0.6\namespace\3-20-Main\Our
Data. I have learned CSC stands for Client-Side-Caching; but I am unfamiliar
with that concept.

3-20-Main is the name of one of my Systems and Our Data is the share name of
the D: drive on that system. There is a folder on that disk called My
Documents. It is the main file share and is 164 GB.

On the Vista system, the entire Folder structure of the D: drive is under
the Our Data folder listed above. However, all of the folders except My
Documents are empty. The My Documents contains 50.8 GB of data, which is
only part of the 164 GB of data.

What caused the CSC folders to get propagated with the data and why was it
hidden?

Thank you for your persistence.

Sincerely,

Jeff V. Pulver

 

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Dear Malu:

Thank you for that hint. I did everything except right-click the area. I am
researching those files now. It was a challenge getting a screen shot of
them. It would have been nice if SM allowed one top copy tat list of files
to the clipboard..

In any event, I will be registering SM, as I think it is a worthwhile
addition to my toolbox.

I am researching those files to see who the culprit is and hopefully learn
why. I found out the culprit.

It may have been caused by me; I have no idea why and more importatnly, I do
not know why the file was hidden. Here is what I found.

The problem was with folder: C:\Windows\CSC\v2.0.6\namespace\3-20-Main\Our
Data. I have learned CSC stands for Client-Side-Caching; but I am unfamiliar
with that concept.

3-20-Main is the name of one of my Systems and Our Data is the share name of
the D: drive on that system. There is a folder on that disk called My
Documents. It is the main file share and is 164 GB.

On the Vista system, the entire Folder structure of the D: drive is under
the Our Data folder listed above. However, all of the folders except My
Documents are empty. The My Documents contains 50.8 GB of data, which is
only part of the 164 GB of data.

What caused the CSC folders to get propagated with the data and why was it
hidden?

Thank you for your persistence.

Sincerely,

Jeff V. Pulver

 

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Dear Malu:

Thank you for that hint. I did everything except right-click the area. I am
researching those files now. It was a challenge getting a screen shot of
them. It would have been nice if SM allowed one top copy tat list of files
to the clipboard..

In any event, I will be registering SM, as I think it is a worthwhile
addition to my toolbox.

I am researching those files to see who the culprit is and hopefully learn
why. I found out the culprit.

It may have been caused by me; I have no idea why and more importatnly, I do
not know why the file was hidden. Here is what I found.

The problem was with folder: C:\Windows\CSC\v2.0.6\namespace\3-20-Main\Our
Data. I have learned CSC stands for Client-Side-Caching; but I am unfamiliar
with that concept.

3-20-Main is the name of one of my Systems and Our Data is the share name of
the D: drive on that system. There is a folder on that disk called My
Documents. It is the main file share and is 164 GB.

On the Vista system, the entire Folder structure of the D: drive is under
the Our Data folder listed above. However, all of the folders except My
Documents are empty. The My Documents contains 50.8 GB of data, which is
only part of the 164 GB of data.

What caused the CSC folders to get propagated with the data and why was it
hidden?

Thank you for your persistence.

Sincerely,

Jeff V. Pulver

 

[Jane C]

Hello Jeff,

CSC Client-Side-Caching: Do you have Offline files enabled? Is the Our
Data drive mapped to your pc? Folder redirection and/or roaming profiles?

 

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Hello Jeff,

CSC Client-Side-Caching: Do you have Offline files enabled? Is the Our
Data drive mapped to your pc? Folder redirection and/or roaming profiles?

 

[Jeff V. Pulver]

Dear Jane:

[ Please excuse the previous response; a finger slip occurred. ]

Thank you for your response.

No to Offile files and Folder redirection. Possibly yes to the Our Data.

On 3-20-Main is a D:rive shared as Our Data. There is a folder on that drive
called My Documents. All of our personal files are in that folder. I have
been using this technique starting with Windows 95. With Windows XP and
Vista I have changed the properties of the My Documents meta pointer to
point to that file.

I have another Production Vista system, and the Documents meta pointer
properly points to the networked data store (as stated in the above
paragraph). On that system there is no Windows\CSC Folder. I just checked
and the properties of the C: drive says 33 GB is being used, yet Windows
Explorer can only count for 23 GB. I have not started to determine the
reason for this discrepancy

Thanks again for your assistance.

Sincerely,

Jeff V. Pulver

 

[Malu Menezes [MSFT]]

Well, but you do have a CSC folder in your computer...

To see if offline cache is disabled, go to control panel, disable classic
view if you have it, click network and internet, then Offline Files link.
You can enable/disable CSC there and also check how much disk space it is
currently consuming.
My computer has a 20 GB limit for CSC, for instance. CSC cache is enabled by
default, so if you don't recall to have disabled it, it's probably on...

Client Side Caching (aka Offline Files) is a feature that allows you to
access files on a SMB server (Server Message Block, a protocol to share
files) even if you are not connected.

Regards,
--Malu

Dear Jane:

[ Please excuse the previous response; a finger slip occurred. ]

Thank you for your response.

No to Offile files and Folder redirection. Possibly yes to the Our Data.

On 3-20-Main is a D:rive shared as Our Data. There is a folder on that
drive called My Documents. All of our personal files are in that folder. I
have been using this technique starting with Windows 95. With Windows XP
and Vista I have changed the properties of the My Documents meta pointer
to point to that file.

I have another Production Vista system, and the Documents meta pointer
properly points to the networked data store (as stated in the above
paragraph). On that system there is no Windows\CSC Folder. I just checked
and the properties of the C: drive says 33 GB is being used, yet Windows
Explorer can only count for 23 GB. I have not started to determine the
reason for this discrepancy

Thanks again for your assistance.

Sincerely,

Jeff V. Pulver