Best orientation for the Scythe Zipang on ASUS A8N32-SLI ?

[Skybuck Flying]

Hello,

Which orientation is best for the Scythe Zipang CPU Cooler onto the ASUS
A8N32-SLI motherboard ?

Apperently the zipang can have 4 different orientations.

When looking top down onto the motherboard I see 4 things which could get
extra cooling/airflow from the zipang:

1. At the top there is a silver heatsink.
2. At the left there is a copper heatsink.
3. At the bottom there is a copper heatsink with asus logo on it.
4. At the right there are the memory modules.

Here are two pictures with number 1,2,3,4 on it:

Zoomed in picture:

http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/Question/Zoom.JPG

Zoomed out picture with zipang on case:

http://members.home.nl/hbthouppermans/Question/Question.JPG

Which number should receive extra cooling ?

In other words which one runs hottests ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[peter]

here you go.......and dont come back with a million ands ifs or buts...just
do it!!

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/scythe-zipang-xigmatek-hdtd1284_9.html

peter

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Which number is the northbridge ? Is it number 3 ?

Also is number 2 the mosfet ?

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Yeah,

Here is how the zipang probably works best:

First let's look at the large heatsink array on the top of it.

Top-down view:

* = fan blade.
_ = heatsink fin.
< = airflow from/to case fans.
O = end of heat pipes.

O O O O O O
<<< _**___________*___________* <<<<
<<< ___**_________*_________**_ <<<<
<<< _____**_______*_______**___ <<<<
<<< _______**_____*_____**_____ <<<<
<<< _________+_________+_______ <<<<
<<< ___________________________ <<<<
<<< *********______CPU__******* <<<<
<<< ___________________________ <<<<
<<< _________+_________+_______ <<<<
<<< _______**_____*_____**_____ <<<<
<<< _____**_______*_______**___ <<<<
<<< ___**_________*_________**_ <<<<
<<< _**___________*___________* <<<<

It probably works best when the cold air from the case inlet fans can flow
between the fins... so the fins should be place horizontally... so the air
can go between them...
otherwise the air will be blocked... since those large fins are solid on the
sides... they have no holes.

Now the zipang has something interesting at the bottom.

There is a little extra heatsink at the bottom near the cpu:

Which looks like the air could go in all directions... but the largest gaps
are vertical so the exact opposite of the large heatsink fins... this could
be nice for the top exhaust fan which might then be able to suck hot air
that came down from the fins/blades and out of the heat sink to the exit...

So it looks like this:

<<<^^^^^^^^^^^<<<
<<<^^^^^^^^^^^<<<
<<<^^^^^^^^^^^<<<
<<<+++++++++++<<<
<<<+++++++++++<<<
<<<+++++++++++<<<
<<<+++++++++++<<<
<<<+++++++++++<<<
^^^^^^^^^^^

There are more gaps/airflow pathways vertical/upwards then horizontal/side
ways.

So these gaps could allow to suck hot air away from the north bridge as
well...

Maybe just a little bit.

The heat pipes are up in the air with lots of room around them so those
heatpipes might loose some heat too.

I am little bit worried about those little heat pipes near number 3. Since I
think that's the north bridge chip which might get hot...

However I looked at how the passive heatsink design of the motherboard
works.

It mentions the heat is transported to number 2. Which I think could be the
mosfet ?

There is a little copper heatsink there.... which now receives the most
airflow from the cpu cooler.

So number 2 is going to be ultra cool (?)

Which leaves number 3 to worry about a little bit...

But there are already two inlet fans blowing against number 3... so it will
probably get a little bit of airflow from those two inlet case fans... there
is also an inlet case fan on the bottom.. So it looks ok I hope... there are
also less components there...

There are more components near 1 and 2...

Ok, I am gonna go with the x-bit labs setup... placing the fins horizontal
seems best anyway... so not much choice I guess... that's good.

So the only thing left to look at is what would happen if it was flipped...
then the memory chips would get extra cooling but that would probably be
bad... because this would below the heat back down... I looked at the memory
chips and how they work... there heatpipes are upwards away from the
motherboard... so there the heat must go up or so.

I am not worried about the memory chips

Well this was interesting to look at it...

If I didn't take a closer look then I might have placed it wrongly ?

Well fingers crossed... it probably doesn't matter much..

I just want a long lasting motherboard.

Later.

My Dream PC will probably be back up again next week or so because I
probably need a special 4 to 4 pin extension atx power cable.

I'll try to connect everything anyway and see how far I get... maybe the
cable can make it after all if I route it past the pci clips

And ofcourse nice pictures will follow STAY TUNED ! =D

Wonder Wonder Wonder Wonder, me in Wonder LAND

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Hmm now I am not so sure anymore.

GMAN says to place it flipped.

So the heatsinkfins are still horizontal... but the big heatpipes are at the
top near the 200 mm suckhole. (it's not a blow hole lol)

That kinda makes sense... those heatpipes probably get quite hot... and
could loose some heat thanks to the big suckhole.

The mosfet is pretty much covered by the two outlet case fans I guess...

This flipped setup would blow cool air over the memory chips.

Which could be nice as long as the chips don't overheat or so..

I am not sure what the effect would be...

Would it blow hot air in ?

Or would it blow cool air in ?

Would it sufficate the memory chips ?

Hmmm.

Well I have serious doubts.

I can see adventages and disadventages of both setups.

Maybe it doesn't matter much or maybe it does I don't know.

But the horizontal fin layout is probably the most important decision...

I got that one covered.

Wow though decision...

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Ok, I'll tell you a little story.

If I remember correctly heatpipes work more or less like this:

The heat most be transferred to the heat fins...

There it most be released to the air.

So you saying that heatpipes could release heat directly to the air is a
little bit suspious...

Maybe this would be like a kink in the cable.

Maybe the pipes must have a fast liquid/heat flow from the bottom to the top
fins.

Otherwise the fins might loose their ability to transport heat away...
because the heat pipes are not functioning correctly or something.

Just a thought...

I am not sure exactly what happens inside those heatpipes.

I saw some article some time ago... that some kind of liquid flows up and
down those tubes

There is also a little gap in the heatsink/fan section of the cooler...

If I place the heatsink as GMAN says then the silver heatsink would get some
extra top down airflow...

Maybe the bottom heatpipes transport cool stuff back down ?

But then they wouldn't be called heatpipes ?

Man I have serious doubts how to best place it... shitty.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

These belgiums come to a different conclusion:

They say: place the heatpipes horizontal, and the fins vertical.

However... belgiums are known to be stupid LOL

They did not say if they tested in an open case or a closed case.

Closed case testing is the way to go me thinks...

It seems like if they tested it in a open case situation:

http://sg.vr-zone.com/articles/Scythe_Zipang_-_Super_Size_Me!!/5536-5.html

According to them it made a 9 degrees difference to the cpu..

But remember these are belgiums ! <- stupid people lol

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Well, maybe those belgiums not so stupid.

I am starting to see a pattern.

Here is the new theory:

The zipang has heatpipes on the left side, and on the right side.

This could explain why a horizontal heatpipe layout works better:

The theory goes as follows:

1. The rear case fans suck away hot air from the left/read heat pipes.

2. The front case fans blow away hot air from the right/front heat pipes.

3. The top case fan sucks away hot air from the heatsink fins slightly...

Now comes the most amazing discovery I think:

4. The little heatsink on the bottom will probably work best with a
horizontal heatpipe layout... since it has more pathways that way... and the
airflow is mostly horizontal.

So this could explain why horizontal heat pipes is best... because it
matches the airflow best etc.

Those large heat fins probably have little effect anyway it makes little
sense... maybe it's just a marketing gimmick

Since how is air supposed to go between those little gaps between the fins ?

Then it wouldn't make much sense anyway... why would it be blowing the hot
air towards the motherboard ?

Kinda strange.

Maybe it's a shitty cooler after all..

I don't know... damn.

Man shit.

Difficult decision.

Had I know this up front I might have not chosen this cooler...

I just can't decide which way is best

Expermenting with it would get very messy.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Not sure about orientation.

Horizontal heatpipes might be better after all... better airflow through
little heatsink etc...

Sick.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

There are some factors to consider:

1. Heat goes up.

2. Gravity.

3. Water/heat flow inside the heatpipes.

4. Airflow.

5. Final case orientation.

So a new factor to consider.

If the heat pipes are vertical so that they point towards the sky... this
means the heatpipes are then up... so the heat travels through the complete
large heat sink array.

This could explain why x-bit labs saw 2 degree cooler when the heatsinks
where pointing towards the sky.

The largest heatpipe goes through the whole heatsink/fins array.

So maybe it would be smart to start at the bottom and then go up... so the
whole heatsink gets to dissipate the heat.

In this orientation the mosfet would get some draw draft as well.

The memory chips would be completely free which is nice.

The silver heatsink gets some extra down draft as well since there is a
small gap near that part of the fan.

Finally the largest heatpipe is near the north bridge which is a bit
worrieing... it might dissipate heat there... but then again it's directly
in the airflow stream...

So any heat disspitated there will probably go out the rear back case fan...

The heatsink fins are also horizontal so the case airflow can blow between
that as well towards the rear case fan.

Only problem is... no, too little airflow on the little heatsink... at the
bottom.

Though call.

I have requested some advice on the scythe forum.

I really wonder how this beast was designed... maybe some engineer will
reply... I doubt it though... they probably busy...

Meanwhile I can read up on heatsink theory

Anyway somebody else mentioned... if the heatpipes are horizontal that might
be bad... because then there might be gas inside the heatpipes...

Also how the **** is the heat gonna travel through the heatpipes if they are
horizontal ?

Doesn't make much sense... unless these belgiums somehow screwed their test
maybe ?

Or maybe it's because of airflow blowinst past the heatpipes a little bit.

Hmm I think those belgiums and other people testing outside the case are
probably **** ups.

Oh well.

Difficult difficult difficult.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[peter]

This was not a discussion...if you are unable to follow Pictorial Directions
have some grade 6'er explain it to you
and in the future have someone build all of your systems...

I never answer your "self talks" but just this once I thought I would be
nice.....after all the answer was in Picture form..
but no more...I see now that you are incapable of learning whether it be
Computer Part Installation or proper use of a help section like this.
You only post to hear yourself talk or to raise some inane subject that
common sense would have solved in a minute and a half.
peter

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Yeah,

Based on this little link:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/5,37.html

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

I like to know what I am doing and how it works before I follow pictures.

Besides the text and the pictures on x-bit labs could have been better, it's
not super-mega-terribly-clear but ok

I am think I am gonna go with the x-bit labs setup after all.

It makes the most sense according to the heatpipe theory

Also it looks like if the little pins are like the up-right position or so


Oh well.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[mpm]

I like to know what I am doing and how it works before I follow pictures.

I don't know what you need pictures for?
If there's any "Expert" on hot air & wind around here, it's you!!

 

[Robert Myers]

I don't know what you need pictures for?
If there's any "Expert" on hot air & wind around here, it's you!!

I think he should be working on the Millenium Prize:

http://www.claymath.org/millennium/Navier-Stokes_Equations/

Robert.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Well some support dude from the Scythe forum said to place it so heatpipes
are horizontal... he also said to experiment since it depends on some
factors.

But he didn't explain anything so I guess he just guessing as well a little
bit or so.

I can see a little benefit of placing it horizontal.

The heatsink fins will allow the heat to travel upwards through the fins...

Otherwise the heat from the heatsinks might build up in the vertical
position and get stuck behind the fins.

Hmm..

I guess I might have to do some experimentation after all.

Fortunately the socket 939 mounting system should be easily to put on and
off

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Installing it horizontal brings the heatpipes close to your ram and thats

never good.

That's exactly what I was thinking too..

However the support chap from Scythe forum said to install the cpu cooler
horizontal ?!

Which would mean heatpipes near memory...

Unless maybe other way around but then there would still be heat pipes near
ram.

Well,

I am getting close to finishing up the pc case... I had to route many cables
behind the back and stick them to the case... and it's bloody ****ing hot in
here...

27 motherfucking degrees... and that's without pc's our electronics on...

Outside it's even 30 degrees.

So I am breaking a sweat for every cable I place and stick... and breaking
my back lol a little bit lol.

But hopefully it's worth...

I am just making sure the door gets closed perfectly... with every cable I
add...

Now the only thing left to do is:

1. Stick the led cables in etc.
2. Mount the cpu cooler.
3. Mount the last graphics card.
4. Stick the cables in and work those away too.
5. Screw in many many thumb screws..
6. Clean up lots of stuff...
7. Stick all cables back in etc.
8. Close the case...
9. Move the case...
10. Move everything else.
11. Clean up some more...

Yeah... At the pace I am going which is snail slow because of this fricking
heat... and I need to relax too... sticking all those cables is scary.... so
I gotta sleep it on so to speak... and then I might be done maybe even this
night.

I am hoping the temperatures will come down this night...

Starting this new pc with a room temperature of 27 degrees doesn't seem to
smart to me... giving all this overheating shit.

I do look a little bit forward to seeing those blue leds I wonder if it will
look good or bad... and if I will or will not like it.

But I can tell you this much:

When standing next to the case... it's like standing next to darth vader or
batman the dark knight... with all it's high tech powerfull gear on...
breathing slowly... looking at you with a mean look in it's eyes... the
smell... the look... the build... the thinking that went into the system...
it's high quality, it's daunting, it's pitch black, it's bad-ass.

It's emanating the power of the dark side of the force into my living
room... I CAN FEEL IT !

I love it, I like it lol.

Lucas Arts might even sue me for violating their invention of the dark side
LOL !

NONONONONO YOU CANT HAVE A PC OF THE DARK SIDE THAT BELONGS TO US LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

You like that blowhole a lot don't you ?

Here some more food for thought:

Airflow specifications for the fans:

200mm FAN:

HIGH, 1000 RPM, 167.6 CFM
MEDIUM, 700 RPM, 126.57 CFM
LOW, 400 RPM, 82.61 CFM

120mm FAN:

High, 2000 RPM, 79 CFM
Medium, 1600 RPM, 56 CFM
Low, 1200 RPM, 39 CFM


So there are 3 inlet fans at 1200 RPM or so which gives more or less:

117 CFM... however there are some dust filters and some hd's and some cables
in the way... so maybe that goes down to 90 CFM or so.

There are 2 exhaust fans with some obstruction so say 60 CFM.

Then there is one big fan with 82 CFM.

So it seems the case has negative pressure which might be a little bit
bad... I bet it will start sucking in dust from the floppy drive which has
holes because of the gate... but I can cut some foam and fix that later on
probably... and the dvd drive probably little bit of dust..

There is also a side hole near the gpu... maybe that's good... because of
the negative pressure maybe it will suck cold into the case from there...
could be good.

So you being excited about the big fan is probably justified... it should
have some good sucking power according to the manual...

However... remember the air flow direction for the big hole is not
optimal... since the fans are blowing like from front to back... which seems
better for nice wind tunnel effect but ok.

Also the blowhole will probably suck lots of air in from the floppy drive...
a short circuit in the air flow... so it will loose some sucking power...

It will also have to compete a little bit with the side fans... and the
bottom power fan and gpu fans...

So maybe the sucking power of the big hole will be reduced somewhat to maybe
even quite a lot... but then again heat goes up usually

Oh well it's such a tough decision sux.

Fortunately it still a few hours away before I need to take a decision

Bye,
Skybuck =D

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Doesnt the FM tell you how to install the heatsink?

Ok,

I am going to follow the manual.

The manual has vertical heatpipes.

However the pins are pointing towards the big hole.

You said to place the heatpipes near the big hole...

But the heatpipes don't do transfer to air.. that's probably what the fins
are for...

The heatpipes must be place the other way around so the heat can go through
the heatpipes all the way up...

Which leads me to the x-bit labs setup..

It also makes the most sense visually... since it will look like it was
placed that way... like heatpipes going up.

This is also in accordence to the whole heat pipe theory of the past...
don't know about the wielding stuff though.

This will also cool down mosfet and northbridge a little bit...

The fins will receive cool air from the sides... which will then heat up and
be blown down... which might not be so good... but ok. But there will be
cool air from the top of the fan as well... so that will got blown down
there as well... then the big hole might suck it up or so...

Only problem might be with the little heatsink... but it has holes on the
sides as welll so maybe that is ok anyway...

Vertical is probably safest anyway... the heatpipes out of the way of the
memory and the mosfet where components are... and the heatpipes are in the
side ways airflow so they gonna be cooled down a bit too.

The fin is gonna block a little bit of heat going up but that probably not
so bad.

So I am gonna go with the x-bit labs setup... which is the last/bottom
picture

Unless the support engineer manages to convince me to go with horizontal
setup the coming few hours... but that will probably not happen

Also if I follow manual and something bad happens then I can blame them LOL.

Bye,
Skybuck.

 

[Skybuck Flying]

Yeah...

I checked to make sure that all socket 939 boards have the same socket
orientation.

Most seem to have the same socket orientation.

I only saw one yellow board on google which had the socket oriented 45
degrees differently...

Which is probably a dirty rebel not to be trusted !

Bye,
Skybuck.