Before you install Real Player, read this!

[Richard Steinfeld]

Yeah. I couldn't have said it better myself. This is what you
need to know _before_ you load down your computer. Also, perhaps
you'd like to think twice before using "Media Player Classic"
plus the "Real Alternative" codec set that allows Real streaming
files to play in Media Player Classic.

jetAudio also delivers Real streams to your loudspeakers. But
note:
- The Media Player Classic/Real Alternative combination appears
to me to be a more responsible installation than Real's notirious
un-installable octapus. I believe that it is about 5% the size of
the Real installation, too. And it works fine. The Real
Alternative codec set may contain spyware, however.
- I do not know if jetAudio contains spyware. One person more
skilled than I wrote in a Spyware newsgroup that it is. I'm using
it now; it seems well-behaved and I haven't caught suspect
transmissions. However, I am using heavy security programs and
settings that may be blocking such actions.

Read this linked site -- all of it

Richard

http://jogin.com/weblog/archives/000504/

 

[Mark R. Blain]

Read this linked site -- all of it

http://jogin.com/weblog/archives/000504/

I did, and thanks. It expands nicely on some of the issues with Real
One / Real Player that've been talked about here.

But those who DO read all about it and insist on installing it anyway
should pay attention to the link to an "ad-free, nag-free,
spyware-free version of Real Player, thanks to the good old BBC...".

 

[donutbandit]

The Real
Alternative codec set may contain spyware, however.

I've never seen any evidence that Real Alternative has spyware. I've used
it quite a bit. There is never any unusual firewall activity, or anything
in the log to suggest that anything tried to call out.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

| On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 05:39:17 GMT, Richard Steinfeld wrote (in
part):
|
| > Read this linked site -- all of it
| >
| > http://jogin.com/weblog/archives/000504/
|
| I did, and thanks. It expands nicely on some of the issues
with Real
| One / Real Player that've been talked about here.
|
| But those who DO read all about it and insist on installing it
anyway
| should pay attention to the link to an "ad-free, nag-free,
| spyware-free version of Real Player, thanks to the good old
BBC...".
|
| --
| Mark R. Blain, (e-mail address removed)
| (change .INVALID to .NET to reply)

A poster on the referenced site mentioned that the BBC version is
essentially the same as the usual Real travesty (that's why I
said to read the entire site!) As far as what that poster said,
I really don't know; the BBC window seems to be running atop my
default player.

I can say, and dig this:

- I installed Media Player Classic/Real Alternative. Then I
installed jetAudio. My firewall has repeatedly caught jetAudio
going to Real Alternative files for its needs.
- I've noticed at least two content sites loading their own Real
window to play the files. The ones that I've seen are BBC and
KQED. The KQED one is a pain because it does not show remaining
time and provides limited controls. KQED also uses RedSheriff
spyware, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

| |
| > The Real
| > Alternative codec set may contain spyware, however.
|
| I've never seen any evidence that Real Alternative has spyware.
I've used
| it quite a bit. There is never any unusual firewall activity,
or anything
| in the log to suggest that anything tried to call out.

Dear Donut:

Take a look at a file named "COOKIES.TXT." This isn't any old
COOKIES.TXT file. For one thing, the one I'm talking about is not
kept in the usual place: C:\windows\cookies. It is therefore not
dealt with by cookie management software.

You'll find this file hiding in one of the Real Alternative
directories. Load up that file and read it. What do you see?

Regarding the combined MPC/RA setup, your firewall certainly
should log the activity in both directions between your player
and the content server. Multiple transmissions take place during
any streaming session. The two computers discuss what's going on,
for example, buffering, in exactly the same way that your
computer and printer converse. The firewall log should show these
many conversations.

The content site is not always obvious by name. Some providers
originate the streams themselves. Other providers contract with a
third party to operate the streaming. Thus, you may see an
unfamiliar name associated with your reception. There is yet
another streaming service that's operated by Real Networks itself
at low or no charge to alternative content providers. Right now,
the program "Your Call" (formerly "Working Assets Radio") and
network programs from the Pacifica Foundation come from that
source.

What I recall from watching Real Player itself at work is that
the Player will go to the content site for the program. Mixed in
with the content transmissions I've outlined above, Real will
"phone" one or more Real Networks URLs in order to "serve" you
with advertising, teasers, and other swill. It will also phone
home to report what you, donutbandit, have been doing at your
computer (naughty, naughty donutbandit!).

Hope this clears up something or other.

Richard

 

[Lester Horwinkle]

I ran a registry search for the word "real". It found 1398 entries!

 

[John Corliss]

Dear Donut:
Take a look at a file named "COOKIES.TXT." This isn't any old
COOKIES.TXT file. For one thing, the one I'm talking about is not
kept in the usual place: C:\windows\cookies. It is therefore not
dealt with by cookie management software.
You'll find this file hiding in one of the Real Alternative
directories. Load up that file and read it. What do you see?

Regarding the combined MPC/RA setup, your firewall certainly
should log the activity in both directions between your player
and the content server. Multiple transmissions take place during
any streaming session. The two computers discuss what's going on,
for example, buffering, in exactly the same way that your
computer and printer converse. The firewall log should show these
many conversations.

The content site is not always obvious by name. Some providers
originate the streams themselves. Other providers contract with a
third party to operate the streaming. Thus, you may see an
unfamiliar name associated with your reception. There is yet
another streaming service that's operated by Real Networks itself
at low or no charge to alternative content providers. Right now,
the program "Your Call" (formerly "Working Assets Radio") and
network programs from the Pacifica Foundation come from that
source.

What I recall from watching Real Player itself at work is that
the Player will go to the content site for the program. Mixed in
with the content transmissions I've outlined above, Real will
"phone" one or more Real Networks URLs in order to "serve" you
with advertising, teasers, and other swill. It will also phone
home to report what you, donutbandit, have been doing at your
computer (naughty, naughty donutbandit!).

Hope this clears up something or other.

Thanks for pointing this out. I just found this file on my system:

"C:\Program Files\Real Alternative\Common\cookies.txt"

and it's dated 1/10/2004, the last time I viewed Real Player media.

This folder:

"C:\Program Files\Real Alternative"

was created on Friday, October 24, 2003, 5:10:07 PM, so that's when I
installed the program. I will be uninstalling both Real Alternative
and Media Player Classic on:

Sunday, March 7, 2004 5:15 am

Thanks for the heads up.

They're worse than Microsoft and their Media Player 9 bullsh**.

 

[ben]

I've never seen any evidence that Real Alternative has spyware. I've used
it quite a bit. There is never any unusual firewall activity, or anything
in the log to suggest that anything tried to call out.

=========
Spybot detects every time when it scans, a file called "Common Name" as a spy
and that file belongs to Real player one

 

[donutbandit]

Yep, it's there. Appears to be a remnant from Real Player G2. Since I
rarely view streaming content, there's one (very old) cookie there from
tripod.com

I specifically said "unusual" traffic.

This does bear some checking out, such as making the cookies.txt file read
only to see how RA reacts.

 

[donutbandit]

There are 2 text files in the Real Alternative/Common file: cookies.txt,
and 41000000.txt.

I changed them both to read only. RA worked just fine.

I erased the contents of both of them. RA worked just fine.

I renamed them both. Same result.

I deleted them both. RA worked just fine, and made no attempt to recreate
the files.

I went to the BBC site, and used RA to play their stream without any
problem. It was recognized as "Real Player" by the site and worked just
fine. I found no evidence after playing of any newly generated files having
to do with RA.

These 2 files appear to be remnants of the G2 codecs used by RA. I would
say that the claim that RA has spyware is greatly exaggerated, based on
these results.

 

[Bogus]

An alternative to uninstalling this is to "tame" it.

1. Add these keys to your registry to stop cookie retention:

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\RealNetworks\RealMediaSDK\6.0\Preferences\Cookie
sEnabled]
@=dword:00000000


[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Classes\Software\RealNetworks\RealMediaSDK\6.0\
Preferences\CookiesEnabled]
@=dword:00000000

2. Occasionally scramble this key, which is unique to each user and is
passed to the streaming server:

Software\RealNetworks\RealMediaSDK\6.0\Preferences\Rotuma\


- IMHO RealAlternative, with these tweaks, is the least intrusive of the
Streaming alternatives

- IIUC, The remaining privacy compromise is RDNS - which requires an
anonymous proxy to cure.


..

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

message | I ran a registry search for the word "real". It found 1398
entries!

Yeah, Lester:

I'm going to repeat something I've been saying again. People
really need to get this: In order to be able to subsequently
uninstall Real Player, I tracked the installation with System
Suite's uninstaller utility, I often use this routine to later
clean up installed programs. I had already had firsthand
experience with Real's uninstallable beast (I had to format my
hard disk to get rid of it).

- The real installation performed more than 5,000 changes to my
system!
- The close-spaced printout of this log took 46 pages of paper!
- Uninstalling this monster took two passes with the usual MS
uninstaller, two passes with System Suite, five reboots, and then
manual editing of the registry.

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

| Richard Steinfeld wrote:
| > donutbandit wrote:
| >> Richard Steinfeld wrote:
| >>
| >>> The Real Alternative codec set may contain spyware,
however.
| >>
| >> I've never seen any evidence that Real Alternative has
spyware.
| >> I've used it quite a bit. There is never any unusual
firewall
| >> activity, or anything in the log to suggest that anything
tried
| >> to call out.
| >
| > Dear Donut:
| > Take a look at a file named "COOKIES.TXT."

..................

| >
| > Hope this clears up something or other.
|
| Thanks for pointing this out. I just found this file on my
system:
|
| "C:\Program Files\Real Alternative\Common\cookies.txt"
|
| and it's dated 1/10/2004, the last time I viewed Real Player
media.
|
| This folder:
|
| "C:\Program Files\Real Alternative"
|
| was created on Friday, October 24, 2003, 5:10:07 PM, so that's
when I
| installed the program. I will be uninstalling both Real
Alternative
| and Media Player Classic on:
|
| Sunday, March 7, 2004 5:15 am
|
| Thanks for the heads up.
|
| They're worse than Microsoft and their Media Player 9 bullsh**.
|
| --
| Regards from John Corliss


Yup.

My friend with decades of high-level DP management once said,
"The only company I hate more than Microsoft is AOL." As far as
my own experience with software that rapes the user's computer,
I'd say that Real is tied with AOL. My friend can't comment about
Real other than to say that his public agency has blocked
streaming altogether because of the way that it comandeers the
resources they use for work.

Let me interject a different slant here, John. At least one other
post in this thread tells of a method by which the poster
emasculated your combination (I think it was Donutbandit). I
think that he did a reasonable test, too. Alternatively, a poster
on the spyware newsgroup detailed a number of system changes,
both in the registry, and involving a file named "Rotuma." I
encourage you to check up on his solution, too.

Personally, I've found that I really enjoy being able to listen
to alternative radio from cities far from me, programs that
aren't carried even here in the SF Bay Area. So, being able to
download this stuff is part of my life. Living without these
streams would feel a bit like being thrown into solitary
confinement. I once did as you described: ripped Real off my
system (that's how I know how to uninstall it). I haven't
attempted tweaking either of the alternative Real play methods
yet, other than to kill all the options and also block any
transmissions that my firewall alerts me to.

Richard

 

[JunkMonkey]

It ain't freeware! But SystemSuite (now V5) is really worth paying for.
Think how difficult the task would have been without SS!

 

[Roy]

Take a look at a file named "COOKIES.TXT." This isn't any old
COOKIES.TXT file. For one thing, the one I'm talking about is not
kept in the usual place: C:\windows\cookies. It is therefore not
dealt with by cookie management software.

You'll find this file hiding in one of the Real Alternative
directories. Load up that file and read it. What do you see?

No such file is ever created here, and believe me, I have checked at
frequent intervals. Could this perhaps be version dependent? I'm using the
latest available, I believe, it identifies itself as 1.2.1.0.

I've seen no evidence here of any suspicious activity whatever, no
advertising or anything of that kind at all.

All the Mozilla browsers do produce such a file, and in their own
respective directories too. Does that make them spyware?

I could find no reference to suspicious problems with Real Alternative at
the URL which you gave. Did I miss something?

So far, in my opinion, you've raised some suspicions only, albeit
suspicions worth persuing, but where's your hard evidence?

Cheers,

Roy

 

[Roy]

Thanks for pointing this out. I just found this file on my system:

"C:\Program Files\Real Alternative\Common\cookies.txt"

No such file here, also running Real Alternative.

I have to assume that this is version, or source, dependent.

Cheers,

Roy

 

[Bogus]

No such file here, also running Real Alternative.

I have to assume that this is version, or source, dependent.

Cheers,

Roy

Indeed, different OS's put that file in different locations; you are
probably running
an NT/2k/xp system.

Do a search for "cookies.txt"; look inside.

 

[donutbandit]

Yeah. I couldn't have said it better myself. This is what you
need to know _before_ you load down your computer. Also, perhaps
you'd like to think twice before using "Media Player Classic"
plus the "Real Alternative" codec set that allows Real streaming
files to play in Media Player Classic.

Once again:

There are 2 text files in my Real Alternative/Common file: cookies.txt,
and 41000000.txt.

I changed them both to read only. RA worked just fine.

I erased the contents of both of them. RA worked just fine.

I renamed them both. Same result.

I deleted them both. RA worked just fine, and made no attempt to recreate
the files.

I went to the BBC site, and used RA to play their stream without any
problem. It was recognized as "Real Player" by the site and worked just
fine. I found no evidence after playing of any newly generated files having
to do with RA.

These 2 files appear to be remnants of the G2 codecs used by RA. I would
say that the claim that RA has spyware is greatly exaggerated, based on
these results.

 

[Rob]

It ain't freeware! But SystemSuite (now V5) is really worth paying
for. Think how difficult the task would have been without SS!

A great FREE alternative to System Suite is Total Uninstall.
Total Uninstall has saved me many times! A great program to fix up bad
installs or getting rid of bloatware!

Rob

 

[John Corliss]

Yep, it's there. Appears to be a remnant from Real Player G2. Since I
rarely view streaming content, there's one (very old) cookie there from
tripod.com




I specifically said "unusual" traffic.

This does bear some checking out, such as making the cookies.txt file read
only to see how RA reacts.

Uhhh.... Donutbandit, I hope you know that it was Richard Steinfeld
that made the comments you attributed to me.