Real Player alternative

[Richard Steinfeld]

I want to be able to download various public radio programs to cassette
tape. Some of these programs never made it here to the San Franscisco
Bay Area; others aren't available at all. But my ability to hear these
shows helps keep me sane.

There are problems, of course, due to most of the sources'
standardization on the ultra-nasty Real Networks technology. Herein, a
capsule outline of the problems.

1. Real Player is a horror that turned my computer into their own
virtual computer on my electric bill. It spied on me. Even worse, it
made more than 5,000 changes to my operating sytem (I tracked them).
First time, I had to format my hard disk to get it off. Second time, it
took massive use of two utilities to extricate its tentacles. In
between, my system's performance was greatly degraded all the time. No
way will I deal with this outfit again. And this goes for Quick Time, too.

2. JetAudio has better manners, nicer bells/whistles; installed more
easily. But there was some spy component to it (I think), and there was
some reason why I uninstalled it (can't recall).

3. Media Player Classic, with the Real Alternative file set:
MPC is a puzzle. The program seems to have a mind of its own. It's hard
to figure out (the file extension registration defies my logic). And,
maddeningly, it always resets my .wav volume to half-mast: I must always
call up the Windows mixer in advance and quickly intervene to get the
mouse arrow positioned just right and push the slider up whenever
playing Real streaming content. I'm using MPC version 6.4.8.2.

And the Real Alternative file set appears to be a genuine product of
Real Networks themselves, complete with spyware and mysterious arbitrary
loading of mysterious .DLLs. When I've examined the code in every RA
file, it's clear that they're all copyrighted by The Monster Itself:
they've put out a decoy that's just their own "alternative" to their own
humungous spy computer.

There is also absoloutely no way on earth to reach the programmer --
somewhere in Hungary, if I get the drift. No way to suggest refinements.
You can make donations to him via a third party who keeps half of your
money.

Anyone tried the newer version of MPC?

Anyone have anything else to reccomend?

We had a nice discussion last year or so batting around how to neuter
the spy components in both RPC and JetAudio (does JetAudio still
exist?). I fogot the details, other than a file named "Rotuma."

Richard

 

[Mike Dee]

they've put out a decoy that's just their own "alternative" to
their own humungous spy computer.

Eeeeek!!!! Any truth in this?

 

[Josh Randall]

Eeeeek!!!! Any truth in this?

My experience (say 30 years) says yes. They ALL have to make $, unless the
makers are altruists (such as the Linux folks), so, as they say...."there is
NO free lunch"..........somebody has to pay. I've been on all the freeware
sites mentioned in this group. All have ads, or adware, or something to make
the cash. I might be wrong, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I
am..........

 

[Mike Dee]

My experience (say 30 years) says yes. They ALL have to make $,
unless the makers are altruists (such as the Linux folks), so, as
they say...."there is NO free lunch"..........somebody has to pay.
I've been on all the freeware sites mentioned in this group. All
have ads, or adware, or something to make the cash. I might be
wrong, but I'm sure someone will correct me if I am..........

1.) <http://vps.arachnoid.com/freeware/index.html>
2.) <http://vps.arachnoid.com/careware/index.html>
3.) <http://vps.arachnoid.com/GPL/GPL.txt>

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

1.) <http://vps.arachnoid.com/freeware/index.html>
2.) <http://vps.arachnoid.com/careware/index.html>
3.) <http://vps.arachnoid.com/GPL/GPL.txt>

Mike, what do these links have to do with the subject at hand?
Is there something that I'm not grokking?

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Eeeeek!!!! Any truth in this?

Well, just download the files and examine their innards with File Snoop
or similar utility: draw your own conclusions.

We had someone last time around who gave some instructions about how to
emasculate the behavior; about JetAudio too.

See what you think. Or perhaps search back a couple of years or so and
see if you find the info (this group, if I recall).

Note: with my current firewall (Sygate) it's a simple matter to catch it
trying to phone the mother ship and slap it's grubby fists, allowing the
content to stream along just fine. What I don't know about is those few
occasions when the thing loads a .dll. That makes me more nervous.

I'm talking now about using Media Player Classic (donationware) with the
"plug in" Real Alternative file set.

Richard

 

[John Corliss]

Well, just download the files and examine their innards with File Snoop
or similar utility: draw your own conclusions.

We had someone last time around who gave some instructions about how to
emasculate the behavior; about JetAudio too.

See what you think. Or perhaps search back a couple of years or so and
see if you find the info (this group, if I recall).

Note: with my current firewall (Sygate) it's a simple matter to catch it
trying to phone the mother ship and slap it's grubby fists, allowing the
content to stream along just fine. What I don't know about is those few
occasions when the thing loads a .dll. That makes me more nervous.

I'm talking now about using Media Player Classic (donationware) with the
"plug in" Real Alternative file set.

Richard

Richard,
My understanding of Realplayer Alternative is that it's simply a
subset of the real Realplayer program's files and leaves out the problem
files. I have it installed on my system and it doesn't try to call home.
Neither does Media Player Classic. I don't remember if I had to disable
any option to make this happen or not, but I expect I didn't.

 

[Thorsten Duhn]

Hello,

My understanding of Realplayer Alternative is that it's
simply a subset of the real Realplayer program's files and
leaves out the problem files.

so why does it produce less quality playback? I posted about
this before, the output is different, and the alternative is
not better at all.

And, could a repack of licensed files ever be freeware, if the
license is not open source (or that specific allowing distribution
of parts, which Real really does not)? If RealAlternative is
just a subset of RealPlayer files, I would call it crack or
warez. Even reverse engineering is not allowed AFAIK.

I've taken a look at the german copy of the RP license on my
system, it does not allow redistributing parts of their software
in any way.

Regards,
Thorsten

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Hello,



so why does it produce less quality playback? I posted about
this before, the output is different, and the alternative is
not better at all.

You've brought up interesting points.
I assume that you're using the Real Alternative codec set with Media
Player Classic. And having used three different programs that handle
Real streams, I can certainly say that they all sound different. But is
the inferior sound caused by the Real Alternative codec set or Media
Player Classic, its front end? Unfortunately, we can't chat with MPC's
cobbler because he's keeping hidden.

I'd venture that any of this software will play certain sources better
than others.

I have spent a lot of time in professional music and audio. For my
money, Real technology is simply not a contender for music transmission.
MP3 is barely adequate for some music, not others no matter how good
the standard that's selected. Both of these are lossy, and lossy means
that some of the sound is tossed.

My only use for Media Player Classic is to play talk radio content. For
that purpose, its fidelity is tolerable. Let's face it: Real audio
quality is still better than the abomination that we tolerate with
almost any cell phone service.

And, could a repack of licensed files ever be freeware, if the
license is not open source (or that specific allowing distribution
of parts, which Real really does not)? If RealAlternative is
just a subset of RealPlayer files, I would call it crack or
warez. Even reverse engineering is not allowed AFAIK.

I've taken a look at the german copy of the RP license on my
system, it does not allow redistributing parts of their software
in any way.

Regards,
Thorsten

I have not been able to learn anything about the origins of the Real
Alternative files. As far as I know, one day, they simply appeared. Does
any reader have any pointers as to how this file set came to be?

One of the reasons that I think that Real Networks launched the whole
file set into the wild is that one of the files in the set consists of
simply the Real Player icon -- their logo. Therefore, I don't think that
RA is warez, crack, hack, or anything like that: I think that Real put
the files out there to cleverly keep ironclad control of their
technology. Creating your own "competition" to keep out authentic
competitors is nothing new. This was done by a few railroad companies
in the United States to maintain de-facto transportation monopolies in
certain regions.

Note that Real Networks has a serious Microsoft-like lock on the market.
In some arenas, it's the only technology that exists. For example, if
you want to listen to the BBC in most of North America, you're going to
have to to it via Real technology on your own computer: there's no more
BBC shortwave to North America.

Having said this, I'm sort-of glad that this alternative exists. MPC
simply does not rape my computer the way that the regular Real product
does. I mean, if for example, I want to uninstall MPC, I don't have to
virtually disembowel the computer that way that I have to with Real
Player. And, man, when I removed Real Player from my computer, boy did
my machine speed up! That thing is a horror.

Richard

 

[John Corliss]

Hello,


so why does it produce less quality playback? I posted about
this before, the output is different, and the alternative is
not better at all.

And, could a repack of licensed files ever be freeware, if the
license is not open source (or that specific allowing distribution
of parts, which Real really does not)? If RealAlternative is
just a subset of RealPlayer files, I would call it crack or
warez. Even reverse engineering is not allowed AFAIK.

I've taken a look at the german copy of the RP license on my
system, it does not allow redistributing parts of their software
in any way.

Thorsten,
You bring up some good points. However, all I know is that the
program is available on Major Geeks, and they don't do warez. Not only
that, but RealPlayer doesn't go after either Major Geeks or RA. That
could be because they're actually the source of the program I suppose.
As for the quality being poorer, I wouldn't know because I learned a
long time ago not to install Realplayer on my computers. Thus, I have no
basis for comparison. The quality seems acceptable on my computer
though. That is to say, on the extremely rare occasions that I actually
use the program.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Thorsten,
You bring up some good points. However, all I know is that the program
is available on Major Geeks, and they don't do warez. Not only that, but
RealPlayer doesn't go after either Major Geeks or RA. That could be
because they're actually the source of the program I suppose. As for the
quality being poorer, I wouldn't know because I learned a long time ago
not to install Realplayer on my computers. Thus, I have no basis for
comparison. The quality seems acceptable on my computer though. That is
to say, on the extremely rare occasions that I actually use the program.

Let me respectfully clarify something. We're not dealing with an "it"
here. There are two separate things we're talking about.

- Real Alternative. This is a set of codec files (codec = CODe/DECode).
Handling streaming media, if you give this some thought, is a very
complicated dance that incorporates error recorvery and mid-stream
stream reconstruction -- all of which happens on-the-fly -- which may be
why there's so little competition in this arena. This is a sophisticated
process. Further, your content provider at the other end responds with
an instant download -- that download is not done in a massive "plop"
like when you download some software, but it played out in real time at
a more-of-less audio rate, stopping and resuming the stream, treating
the computer as a buffer in the same way that the computer treats a
printer's memory -- in constant communication regarding the status of
the recipient. And what if Richard Steinfeld and John Corliss ask to
download the same program ten seconds apart? I'm impressed. I just wish
that the owners of the technologies would keep themselves ethical.

Real Alternative is not a program. It cannot play anything by itself.
It's just a dumb set of codec files, the same way that a computer is
just a pile of dumb transistors. Something else has to mush the code
together to get something out of it.

- In order to hear the BBC, we also need a media player that uses this
set of codec files as a plug-in. When we deal with Real Alternative to
play Real streams, we're also using Media Player Classic. That's the
actual program. But we could, for example, use a different program with
the same codec set.

What's confusing is that the two items are often packaged together by
the freeware board. I seem to recall that JetAudio makes use of the same
codec files -- I could swear that when I was using it, that I caught it
going off to grab onto files in the Real Alternative set.

I also recall that JetAudio automatically phones home to update itself.
I will not use any program that dials out without giving me a switch to
turn this "feature" off permanently; I don't care how good it is. In
truth, I don't recall if JetAudio allowed me to override this. I think
that it did, and that there was some other reason why I yanked its chain
altogether. MPC definitely does not phone its own mother ship. I think,
however, that Real Alternative does, and therein lies a severe privacy
violation.

I wish that there was someone to ask about all this. So far, nobody's
been forthcoming. I mean, we've got this codec set that just appeared
out of the vapor one day, and we've got this program whose programmer
has made himself impossible to contact. I don't trust Real Networks to
tell the truth about anything, and we can't get any answers -- truth or
lies -- about MPC.

Sorry about being on my high horse, but although I'm not a programmer
myself, I've worked on enough software development projects to gain
respect for the discipline of responsible coding. Yeah, it's begging and
choosing alright; sorry 'bout that. But if we subscribe to an "open
source" philosophy (and I think that people on this board do), part of
this mindset is to approach freeware as if it's as serious as the
commercial stuff. Part of responsible software development is
maintaining an audit trail of what's been done (that's why programmers
are called "software engineers" -- it's the discipline).

I have some questions that I want to ask about these products, and
there's nobody to ask!

I hope that I've laid out the issues so that they're easy to comprehend.
Do you agree?

Richard

 

[Roger Parks]

Think that you've laid it out pretty well. Some thoughts:

1. The Real codecs, IIRC, include handling the identification of the
user - through transmission of a unique ID stored in the registry
(rotuma). This ID is generated randomly during installation of Real Player.
Transmission of the rotuma is done at connection time to the streamer;
not via a separate call to Real.

2. Real, RA, and JetAudio each use Real codecs.

3. I don't know, but suspect that RA is warez, and is tolerated by Real
- because its use contributes towards Real's market share. Real gets
fees from the BBC regardless of the legitimacy of the user; high use keeps
Real a player in the streaming game..

4. The trouble with using RA (IMHO) is that it is technically illegal,
and can get you into a crack if your box is ever confiscated. Also,
because most RA users have the same rotuma, it is easy to connect that
rotuma with your IPA (unless you use an anonymizing proxy). IF you're
going to use RA, suggest that you scramble the rotuma.

5. Highest quality is probably via RealPlayer. Though it is bloated,
with precautions and regular hygiene, it is no more a tattletale than RA.
JetAudio is least trustworthy IMHO.

And as to JetAudio, I found a note that I posted a while back:

..................................................................

(first post)

Well, when I get time I'll shut down everything but JA; do a complete
system/registry scan; do some streaming and playin'; do another scan and see
what changed. Find out if it's keeping a log somewhere.

will then sniff it during an update and scan again to see if the log
changes. Worse case is that it keeps an encrypted log which it then sends
during update (I'll compare the contents of the log with the contents of the
encrypted communications).

But I'm -hoping- that I am simply overly suspicious

(Second Post

Well, I did that........ and also ran file and registry access monitoring
tools during update. This is quite a critter!

1. During playing and streaming, it does not appear to consistently create
logs - though it does frequently reference/update: application
data\cowon\jetaudio\jetaudio.sdb and program files/jetaudio/jadplugins.cache

However, one should note that -MS- creates detailed logs both in the
registry and in the file system; files that JA subsequently references.

2. During streaming, it appears to access only the source site.

3. During updates, JA appears to access all of the registry logs created by
MS; plus ntuser.dat

4. During updates, JA creates and deletes a number of encrypted working
files; you may find 2 to 3 relics that it forgets to delete (mine were
created in c:\temp). Named iru3.tmp; iru5.tmp; FB70......tmp.

5. The encrypted communications with MS is intermittent....... don't know if
it is triggered by the content of those encrypted working files; the
calendar; or perhaps some info transferred "in the clear"-advising JA that a
report or download is necessary.

6. Because of the intermittent nature of this connection, I could not tell
what was sent. Because it was a TLS connection, it could have been the
encrypted work files, yet again encrypted for transfer. I wouldn't be able
to crack that.

7. During updates, JA will occasionally (not always) access "armadillo"; a
DRM bot that it installed in the registry under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\The Silicon Realms
Toolworks\Armadillo\\{0D5770197E405C419}.

The information in this key is encrypted. I didn't spend much time at the
site (maybe someone else can check them out), but they appear to either
intercept reads and check DRM, or else they use some sort of encryption
key........... I don't have a lot of time to track this down.

Conclusions: This thing seems to collect a lot of local info at update time.
If I were to continue using it, I would consider either NOT updating it
(i.e. periodically uninstall it; clean out the registry; and load in a new
one), or else first run spybot and mru-blaster (to clear out those logs),
and replace jetaudio.sdb and jadplugins.cache with "virgin" versions (i.e.
copy these files immediately after install; use the installed versions
during updates).

But this strategy might well fail; this fellow is very tricky.

I'm undecided, but inclined to remove it. Sad; the quality of playback of
this thing is superb!

Will be interesting to see what others (with more time) can learn about it.

p.s. I'm no expert on this kind of analysis.............may be many mistakes
here.

If I were keeping it, I'd go to the Real site ((right away)) and click
on those various .ram
files; which will result in codec updates for JA (I didn't sniff this
transaction, but it appeared to be an honest update). Then you don't have to
do it after you've accumulated data.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Thanks for this Roger.
(I snipped out the entire messge for brevity).

It must have been you who illuminated this the last time around, and may
your rotuma bloom forever!

I suspect that the reason why I wiped JetAudio off my system was its
Digital Rights Management system. I'm firmly opposed to anyone using my
system's resources to conduct its own business and to phone out when it
feels like it. It's _my_ computer, not theirs. How nervy! I feel the
same about cookies: you want to record data about me, fine: do it on
your own goddamn hard disk, not mine. Note that these m----------- don't
have the decency to erase their cookies and plant 5 and 6 cookies per
site visit, and I've actually had a computer crash due to an insane
quantity of cookie files. So, of course, I try to practice internet hygiene.

It's amazing how much abuse people will put up with, and what arrogant
standards have become "normal" as a result. Of course, most users don't
know; they just know that their box isn't working the way it used to.

Note that I have nothing against people wanting to maintain control over
their own intellectual creations. But DRM smacks of Big Brother and/or
Big Brother Wannabes (look at the proliferation of "media players," each
trying to get a let up on the competition by planting their unique DRM
on your box). Hell with them all, I say.

I agree that JetAudio was the best of the bunch regarding sound handling
and sound quality. However, I can use other products (especially
_unencumbered_ freeware) for many audio functions. As I mentioned
earlier, I don't want or need Real Audio streaming for music -- just
speech -- so audio quality isn't critical. But as an audio person
(aside), MP3 doesn't cut it either when it comes to reproduction of live
acoustical instruments. It looks like the bottom line is Scramble That
Rotuma and make it Media Player Classic/Real Alternative as the spoken
word solution.

As far as I could tell, MPC itself does not play nasty games with one's
system. I can't say that for the other two products (are there any more
of them?).

Make sense?

Richard

 

[John Corliss]

Richard, thanks for your great reply.

Let me respectfully clarify something. We're not dealing with an "it"

I think you mean "program"? If so, I should have caught that. The
problem with RealPlayer is that they bundle their codecs with their
player, and the player is probably the security problem area.

here. There are two separate things we're talking about.

- Real Alternative. This is a set of codec files (codec = CODe/DECode).

Thanks! I never really knew that. Learn something every day I guess. 80)>

Handling streaming media, if you give this some thought, is a very
complicated dance that incorporates error recorvery and mid-stream
stream reconstruction -- all of which happens on-the-fly -- which may be
why there's so little competition in this arena. This is a sophisticated
process. Further, your content provider at the other end responds with
an instant download -- that download is not done in a massive "plop"
like when you download some software, but it played out in real time at
a more-of-less audio rate, stopping and resuming the stream, treating
the computer as a buffer in the same way that the computer treats a
printer's memory -- in constant communication regarding the status of
the recipient. And what if Richard Steinfeld and John Corliss ask to
download the same program ten seconds apart? I'm impressed. I just wish
that the owners of the technologies would keep themselves ethical.

Real Alternative is not a program. It cannot play anything by itself.

Right. That's probably the reason it comes with Media Player Classic.

It's just a dumb set of codec files, the same way that a computer is
just a pile of dumb transistors. Something else has to mush the code
together to get something out of it.

- In order to hear the BBC, we also need a media player that uses this
set of codec files as a plug-in. When we deal with Real Alternative to
play Real streams, we're also using Media Player Classic. That's the
actual program. But we could, for example, use a different program with
the same codec set.

What's confusing is that the two items are often packaged together by
the freeware board. I seem to recall that JetAudio makes use of the same
codec files -- I could swear that when I was using it, that I caught it
going off to grab onto files in the Real Alternative set.

I also recall that JetAudio automatically phones home to update itself.
I will not use any program that dials out without giving me a switch to
turn this "feature" off permanently; I don't care how good it is. In
truth, I don't recall if JetAudio allowed me to override this. I think
that it did, and that there was some other reason why I yanked its chain
altogether. MPC definitely does not phone its own mother ship. I think,
however, that Real Alternative does, and therein lies a severe privacy
violation.

I never used JetAudio because of the discussion about it in this group.
Went with XMPlayer instead. But I don't use RealPlayer Alternative for
audio. I use it to view visual streams at major television network news
sites. And as far as automatic updating, I'm with you there totally. But
Real Alternative doesn't seem to call home from what I can tell. On the
other hand, just because my firewall doesn't see anything going on
doesn't mean that the codecs might not be operating at a service level
and thus bypassing it. I suppose using a packet sniffer like Ethereal
might detect any such activity.

I wish that there was someone to ask about all this. So far, nobody's
been forthcoming. I mean, we've got this codec set that just appeared
out of the vapor one day, and we've got this program whose programmer
has made himself impossible to contact.

was responsible for Real Alternative and Quicktime Alternative, but he
may actually just provide a server for downloading the files. He at
least, is able to be contacted and I wonder if maybe he could provide
some clarification on the subject.

Both MajorGeeks:

http://www.majorgeeks.com/Real_Alternative_d4094.html
http://www.majorgeeks.com/QuickTime_Alternative_d4100.html

and PCWorld:

http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,23205,00.asp
http://www.pcworld.com/downloads/file_description/0,fid,25215,00.asp

give him credit as being the author though (if "author" is the correct
terminology here, since I think all that was done was a surgical removal
of the codecs from RealPlayer) although PCWorld credits free-codecs.com
as being responsible for Quicktime Alternative.

I don't trust Real Networks to
tell the truth about anything, and we can't get any answers -- truth or
lies -- about MPC.

Somebody or some organization by the name of "Gabest" is supposed to be
the author. Gabest can be constacted, but only if you have an account
with Sourceforge. It does seem suspicious that the home page for the
program (NOT the Sourceforge project page) only says the following:

_______________________________________
Hi
Gabest.org under construction

Click here to go to project homepage
_______________________________________


where "here" is a link back to the Sourceforge site at
http://sf.net/projects/guliverkli/

Sorry about being on my high horse, but although I'm not a programmer
myself, I've worked on enough software development projects to gain
respect for the discipline of responsible coding. Yeah, it's begging and
choosing alright; sorry 'bout that. But if we subscribe to an "open
source" philosophy (and I think that people on this board do), part of
this mindset is to approach freeware as if it's as serious as the
commercial stuff. Part of responsible software development is
maintaining an audit trail of what's been done (that's why programmers
are called "software engineers" -- it's the discipline).

Presently, ethics do seem to be in short supply in this world.

I have some questions that I want to ask about these products, and
there's nobody to ask!

I hope that I've laid out the issues so that they're easy to comprehend.
Do you agree?

Sure seems like it to me. And I agree... I'd like to know where Real
Alternative and Quicktime Alternative come from originally. It may be
that they're from the original companies OR they may be unauthorized
versions that the original companies tolerate for some reason.

 

[John Corliss]

Thanks for this Roger.
(I snipped out the entire messge for brevity).

Richard,
Which Roger are you refering to? Was it the Hunt, Johansson or some
other variety? I never saw any message from anybody by that name. My
newsfeed must be messing up.

By the way, I agree regarding DRM.

 

[Brook Humphrey]

Sure seems like it to me. And I agree... I'd like to know where Real
Alternative and Quicktime Alternative come from originally. It may be
that they're from the original companies OR they may be unauthorized
versions that the original companies tolerate for some reason.

they were originally from the same group that did the kazza klite k++ after
they got into trouble for stripping all the spyware and garbage out of
kazza and making it usable they kind of went under radar. The group of guys
working on the codec pack branched off and have not seemed to have an
actual site since then but they do still distribute the klite codec pack.
Edskes was only a mirror for them. Free-codecs seems to be were they
eventually ended up as free-codecs has the latest versions before anybody
else.

I'm not sure if the same people still do it but it could be very likely.

 

[John Corliss]

They were originally from the same group that did the kazza klite k++ after
they got into trouble for stripping all the spyware and garbage out of
kazza and making it usable they kind of went under radar. The group of guys
working on the codec pack branched off and have not seemed to have an
actual site since then but they do still distribute the klite codec pack.
Edskes was only a mirror for them. Free-codecs seems to be where they
eventually ended up as free-codecs has the latest versions before anybody
else.

I'm not sure if the same people still do it but it could be very likely.

Thanks for the info, Brook. I wonder why Apple and RealNetworks, Inc.
aren't going after them for doing this. Maybe they figure if people are
pissed off enough about the underhanded bullshit that the two companies
are pulling to want the alternatives, it's better just to leave well
enough alone. After all, the vast majority of people don't even know
about Real Alternative or Quickplayer Alternative.

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Richard,
Which Roger are you refering to? Was it the Hunt, Johansson or some
other variety? I never saw any message from anybody by that name. My
newsfeed must be messing up.

Oh, damn: I forgot! (egg on face).

Richard

 

[Richard Steinfeld]

Thanks for the info, Brook. I wonder why Apple and RealNetworks, Inc.
aren't going after them for doing this. Maybe they figure if people are
pissed off enough about the underhanded bullshit that the two companies
are pulling to want the alternatives, it's better just to leave well
enough alone. After all, the vast majority of people don't even know
about Real Alternative or Quickplayer Alternative.

I once got very steamed about Real Networks technology becoming the
exclusive de-facto standard for alternative radio on the web. So, I sent
around a heads-up to a couple of my favorite content sources. The
answers I got back pointed to some things I'll mention:

- The content providers have to pay Real to use their technology to put
up the programs. Real collects on the origin end, not our end. Stuffing
ads into the thing is what gets them salivating. However, I think that
web advertising, in general, hasn't been the goldmine that some anticipated.

- If anything, the providers weren't very happy with what they got either.

- I have a friend who prepares a Real broadcast every week for
distribution. I'll ask him, although he's not a technical person when it
comes to this stuff. Maybe that's the point: it's probably very easy for
him to get his audio to fly using Real encoding.

- I met a guy who used to work for Real. I'll see if he knows anything
(if I can find him). He may not know, however; I think he was strictly
in sales.

Let me add that before I originally tried Real Player a few years ago, I
installed Quick Time. My impression was that, if you can believe this,
Quick Time raped my computer even more brutally than Real did!

I mean, what the hell: it's Apple making a product for Microsoft systems
-- what do we expect? It's like Osama filling in for the pope. Gimme a
break, for god's sake.

Richard

 

[Roger Parks]

Thanks for this Roger.
(I snipped out the entire messge for brevity).

It must have been you who illuminated this the last time around, and may
your rotuma bloom forever!

I suspect that the reason why I wiped JetAudio off my system was its
Digital Rights Management system. I'm firmly opposed to anyone using my
system's resources to conduct its own business and to phone out when it
feels like it. It's _my_ computer, not theirs. How nervy! I feel the
same about cookies: you want to record data about me, fine: do it on
your own goddamn hard disk, not mine. Note that these m----------- don't
have the decency to erase their cookies and plant 5 and 6 cookies per
site visit, and I've actually had a computer crash due to an insane
quantity of cookie files. So, of course, I try to practice internet
hygiene.

You can eliminate cookies by setting "cookiesEnabled" to 0 (zero).

Additionally, I've set the cookie path to a RamDisk file that disappears
at shutdown; though I've never seen a cookie following the above tweak.
(Also, I don't stream very much; typically BBC, Reuters, and an
occasional radio station).

It's amazing how much abuse people will put up with, and what arrogant
standards have become "normal" as a result. Of course, most users don't
know; they just know that their box isn't working the way it used to.

Add to that the spyware/adware that, by some estimations, infects over
50% Windows users. That stuff is a major drain; protective software to
defend against that is also a drain.

Note that I have nothing against people wanting to maintain control over
their own intellectual creations. But DRM smacks of Big Brother and/or
Big Brother Wannabes (look at the proliferation of "media players," each
trying to get a let up on the competition by planting their unique DRM
on your box). Hell with them all, I say.

Agreed. Though one increasingly needs to consider other OS's to avoid
BB; it's clear that MS is heading toward some sort of distributed,
networked world (the original .Net) that makes anonymity very difficult.

Consider the Windows/Intel cabal that'll run its own, separate OS on your
machine - uncontrollable by you, with it's own, unblockable communications stack.

"AMT also features what Intel calls "IDE redirection" which will allow
administrators to remotely enable, disable or format or configure
individual drives and reload operating systems and software from remote
locations, again independent of operating systems.."


http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/index.cfm?go=news.view&news=4774

I agree that JetAudio was the best of the bunch regarding sound handling
and sound quality. However, I can use other products (especially
_unencumbered_ freeware) for many audio functions. As I mentioned
earlier, I don't want or need Real Audio streaming for music -- just
speech -- so audio quality isn't critical. But as an audio person
(aside), MP3 doesn't cut it either when it comes to reproduction of live
acoustical instruments. It looks like the bottom line is Scramble That
Rotuma and make it Media Player Classic/Real Alternative as the spoken
word solution.

As far as I could tell, MPC itself does not play nasty games with one's
system. I can't say that for the other two products (are there any more
of them?).

Make sense?

MPC/RA seems the best approach from a bloatware perspective. It is also
the easiest to "clean" from your box should the world switch to other
streaming standards (e.g. the BBC is developing its own, open source
codec).

In terms of privacy, RealPlayer and RA are equivalent - they each log
your (scrambled) unique ID, what you listened to/watched, when, and what
your ISP is. JA captures that and more.

In terms of quality, they each meet your requirements.

In terms of legality, you'd be better off with RealPlayer - in the
remote chance that your local cop decides to break into your box; sniff
around; and look for incriminating, or "suspicious" stuff - which will
be used to sweat you.

Don't know of any other freeware alternatives - IMHO, stay away from
JetAudio.

In the long run, if you value privacy and independence, consider Linux.