Backup and HD cloning

G

Guest

I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not
sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot drive
to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second
"backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal operation;
in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system simply
by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?
 
G

Guest

With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd in
xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in the
DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave hd.If
asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing to
the
slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave hd,but
then
if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up
with.I would
clone as described and leave it as is....
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Have you ever tried the method you recommend? It won't work,
for the simple reason that many files are locked while Windows
is up and running.

The OP could use a cloning program such as Acronis TrueImage.
 
T

Timothy Daniels

davdun75 said:
I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not
sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot drive
to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second
"backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal operation;
in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system simply
by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?

Whatever you do, don't take any advice from "Andrew E.".
He/she/it is a disinformation troll. Just check the Google
archives of this NG.

*TimDaniels*
 
M

M.I.5¾

Andrew E. said:
With an IDE hd,set as slave on the same IDE chain as C: Format the hd in
xp,once thru,go to run,type:XCOPY C:\*.* D:\ /c/h/e/k/r Agree to all in
the
DOS window,once its thru,C: is now cloned to D: D: being the slave hd.If
asigned diffrent letter,then use that letter.As for consistantly writing
to
the
slave hd,one could schedule xp to consistantly backup to the slave hd,but
then
if xp is corrupted in any manner then so are the files its backing up
with.I would
clone as described and leave it as is....

:

Have you any idea the number of people/organisations that religiously backup
their system and then when disaster strikes discover that their backup is
totally useless because they overlooked something?

Anyone you follows the above advice will join that unhappy group. A Windows
installation cannot be backed up by merely copying all the files while it is
running. Many important system files are protected from being opened by
other applications and you can't copy them either.
 
G

Guest

A fundamental step in devising a backup strategy is to ensure that it works -
without that you're leaving the entire thing up to chance.

I use Acronis True Image at home and at my wife's business to backup
essential systems. We use SyncBackSE to backup data on a daily basis, then
we copy the data to several different places (on system, on site, off site)
to ensure that it's recoverable if we need it.

As these are business systems and aren't hooked to the internet, they're
relatively stable - so we don't have to image the drives very often. But the
backups are essential and I test them periodically to ensure that they'll
restore without any issues.

- John
 
K

Ken Blake

I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not
sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot
drive
to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second
"backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal
operation;
in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system
simply
by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?


What you are talking about is called "mirroring" and the normal way to
accomplish it is with RAID 1. Read about RAID here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more
drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not backup.
It's used in situations (almost always within corporations, not in homes)
where any downtown can't be tolerated,
because the way it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over
seamlessly. Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique, that
is *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the original
and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening your
data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks, theft
of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1 also have a strong
external backup plan in place.

Here's my standard advice on backing up:


First of all, almost everyone should be backing up regularly. It is always
possible that a hard drive crash, user error, nearby lightning strike, virus
attack, even theft of the computer, can cause the loss of everything on your
drive. As has often been said, it's not a matter
of whether you will have such a problem, but when.

Essentially you should back up what you can't afford to lose--what you can't
readily recreate. What that is depends on how you use your computer and what
you use it for.


It takes time and effort to backup, but it also takes time and effort to
recreate lost data. If you back up daily, you should never have to recreate
more than one day's worth of last data. If weekly, there's potentially a lot
more to recreate. You should assess how much pain
and trouble you would have if you lost x days of data, and then choose a
backup frequency that doesn't involve more pain and trouble than that you
would have if you had to recreate what was lost.


Some things (photographs, for instance) can never be recreated, and more
frequent backup may be wanted for them.


At one extreme is the professional user who would likely go out of business
if his data was lost. He probably needs to back up at least daily. At the
other extreme is the kid who doesn't use his computer except to play games.
He probably needs no backup at all, since worst case he can easily reinstall
his games.


Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes, but nobody can tell you
where you fall; you need to determine that for yourself.

Should you back up Windows? Should you back up your applications? Most
people will tell you no, since you can always reinstall these easily from
the original media. But I don't think the answer is so clear-cut. Many
people have substantial time and effort invested in customizing Windows and
configuring their apps to work the way they want to.
Putting all of that back the way it was can be a difficult, time-consuming
effort. Whether you should backup up Windows and apps depends, once again,
on you.


How to backup? What software to use? There are many choices, including the
Windows-supplied backup program. Which choice is best for you depends at
least in part on the answers to some of the questions above.


Finally what backup media should you choose, and how should it be stored?
There are many choices, including CDs, tape, zip drives, and second hard
drives.


I don't recommend backup to a second non-removable hard drive because it
leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to
many of the most common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer.


In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in
the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for example, if the life of
your business depends on your data) you should have multiple generations of
backup, and at least one of those generations should be stored off-site.


My computer isn't used for business, but my personal backup scheme uses two
identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use Acronis
True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive.


I also use a pair of 1GB thumb drives for making more frequent backups of my
most critical data (like financial information). For that I just drag and
drop.
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Ken Blake said:
What you are talking about is called "mirroring" and the normal way to
accomplish it is with RAID 1. Read about RAID here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

RAID 1 (mirroring) is *not* a backup solution. RAID 1 uses two or more
drives, each a duplicate of the others, to provide redundancy, not backup.
It's used in situations (almost always within corporations, not in homes)
where any downtown can't be tolerated,
because the way it works is that if one drive fails the other takes over
seamlessly. Although some people thing of RAID 1 as a backup technique,
that is *not* what it is, since it's subject to simultaneous loss of the
original and the mirror to many of the most common dangers threatening
your data--severe power glitches, nearby lightning strikes, virus attacks,
theft of the computer, etc. Most companies that use RAID 1 also have a
strong external backup plan in place.

Here's my standard advice on backing up:


First of all, almost everyone should be backing up regularly. It is always
possible that a hard drive crash, user error, nearby lightning strike,
virus attack, even theft of the computer, can cause the loss of everything
on your drive. As has often been said, it's not a matter
of whether you will have such a problem, but when.

Essentially you should back up what you can't afford to lose--what you
can't readily recreate. What that is depends on how you use your computer
and what you use it for.


It takes time and effort to backup, but it also takes time and effort to
recreate lost data. If you back up daily, you should never have to
recreate more than one day's worth of last data. If weekly, there's
potentially a lot more to recreate. You should assess how much pain
and trouble you would have if you lost x days of data, and then choose a
backup frequency that doesn't involve more pain and trouble than that you
would have if you had to recreate what was lost.


Some things (photographs, for instance) can never be recreated, and more
frequent backup may be wanted for them.


At one extreme is the professional user who would likely go out of
business if his data was lost. He probably needs to back up at least
daily. At the other extreme is the kid who doesn't use his computer except
to play games. He probably needs no backup at all, since worst case he can
easily reinstall his games.


Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes, but nobody can tell you
where you fall; you need to determine that for yourself.

Should you back up Windows? Should you back up your applications? Most
people will tell you no, since you can always reinstall these easily from
the original media. But I don't think the answer is so clear-cut. Many
people have substantial time and effort invested in customizing Windows
and configuring their apps to work the way they want to.
Putting all of that back the way it was can be a difficult, time-consuming
effort. Whether you should backup up Windows and apps depends, once again,
on you.


How to backup? What software to use? There are many choices, including the
Windows-supplied backup program. Which choice is best for you depends at
least in part on the answers to some of the questions above.


Finally what backup media should you choose, and how should it be stored?
There are many choices, including CDs, tape, zip drives, and second hard
drives.


I don't recommend backup to a second non-removable hard drive because it
leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to
many of the most common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer.


In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in
the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for example, if the life
of your business depends on your data) you should have multiple
generations of backup, and at least one of those generations should be
stored off-site.


My computer isn't used for business, but my personal backup scheme uses
two identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use
Acronis True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive.


I also use a pair of 1GB thumb drives for making more frequent backups of
my most critical data (like financial information). For that I just drag
and drop.

The answer depends on the OP's requirements.

If he is concerned about a hard disk failure then mirroring
is the answer, as you suggested at the beginning of your
detailed response. IMHO, hard disk failures are quite rare.
However, mirroring does NOT protect against malfunctions
within Windows.

If he is concerned about some corruption of Windows then
imaging would be the answer, as you suggested towards
the end of your reply. Going by the number of posts in this
NG, this is a far more likely scenario. If the OP choses this
method then he must maintain at least the two most recent
images.
 
L

Lil' Dave

davdun75 said:
I have backed up both my HD entirely, to a third physical drive - I'm not
sure this is what I want... is there software that will clone my boot
drive
to a different physical drive, and then automatically write to that second
"backup" drive (as well as the primary boot drive) during normal
operation;
in the event my boot drive fails, I figure I could restore the system
simply
by setting up the "backup" drive as the boot drive?

As Ken indicated, writing to the second hard drive automatically is a
function of RAID 1. This means you need the hardware to support that if you
desire such.

All my clone backups are manual. Clone to second hard drive every month,
followed by hiding all the second hard drive partitions. All with 3rd party
boot time software. I can cause the system to boot from the second hard
drive by a simple bios setting alteration, if needed. The same 3rd party
software is also on the second hard drive.

Weekly, and before doing application removal or additions, I image the XP
and other partitions to an external firewire hard drive. My XP partition
data is small, so I also backup that partition to DVD on a monthly basis.

For further safety, I also incorporate writing my Outlook data to 2 forms of
removable media. Personal financial data, 3 forms of removable media.
Intermittently, I also do similar with IE favorites as this changes for me.

I learned the hard way not to rely entirely on one form of backup, and not
to rely on hardware that may not work on another PC if I move my system.
And, to remove the media entirely from the system when the backup is done,
if removable. Image restoration should always be tested before continuing
to use for backup purposes.
Dave
 
G

GMAN

Have you any idea the number of people/organisations that religiously backup
their system and then when disaster strikes discover that their backup is
totally useless because they overlooked something?

Anyone you follows the above advice will join that unhappy group. A Windows
installation cannot be backed up by merely copying all the files while it is
running. Many important system files are protected from being opened by
other applications and you can't copy them either.

RAID !!!!!
 
G

Guest

Wow... thanks to all for your responses and clarification. Have a good plan
in mind now. Am somewhat familiar with softwares cited... now to choose.
 

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