"Arrange Icons by Name" doesn't work on Desktop

[Dudley Brooks]

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 23:42:56 -0700, Dudley Brooks wrote:



I don't have any "My Briefcase" folders. I can create them, but they
start out with "New Briefcase" as a default name;

I never created any briefcases. They were created automatically by
Win98 (which created only one) and, apparently, by the conversion to XP,
since after converting there were now two, the All Users one and mine.

In fact, I've never even *used* a briefcase -- by the time I might have
needed one I was doing all file transfers and synchronization over the
internet anyway. So, strictly speaking, this is an academic discussion
for me. Just mentioning it as another example of the weirdness of Windows.

and the name field
is highlighted for changing to a user defined name.

As I mentioned, I was afraid to change the name of a system-created
folder, since doing so had caused problems the last time I tried it, in
98SE. (I think it was My Documents.)

When I open the
briefcase in Windows Explorer, the URL bar has this path in it:

D:\Users\%User_Name%\Documents\Testing

When I create another briefcase with the same name in another folder,
the URL bar shows:

D:\Users\Public\Documents\Testing

They look different to me!

Ah, but XP doesn't have a URL bar!

Because I have rearranged my Desktop icons, I have lost track which
are "Public", and which are "%User-Name%". OTOH, since I can create
a Briefcase with a user defined name, I can differentiate which are
which by the Briefcase name.


But I honestly can't find a "My Briefcase", and when I create a
briefcase, I can name it anything I wish. But I am up to Windows 7,
now, so maybe Microsoft has changed the way things work from Windows
XP?
Evidently.


Nearly as I can tell, any Desktop icon created during an application
install, is dependent on the application programmer. Many do default
to the Public desktop.

Yes, *that*, at least, I was aware of. I generally try to install
everything to All Users (kind of irrelevant since I'm the only user, but
somehow it seems better to me to put them there). But I think some
programs don't give you an option.

But any folders that I create on the Desktop,
will be in my Desktop, not the Public desktop. And I am reasonably
confident that is the same for Windows XP as for Windows 7 (which is
what I am using right now).

Evidently *not* the same for XP, since some folders -- BTW I kept saying
"icons" but I meant folders -- some folders which I created wound up in
All Users and some wound up as personal. Since I have never logged in
as anyone except myself, I never created any folders except while in my
personal account, so I still can't explain the All Users folders. (And
how would you log in as "All Users" anyway???)

The only thing I can think of this: Many of the folders contain aliases
of applications. Perhaps if Windows sees a folder containing an alias
of an All Users application it decides that the folder should be an All
Users folder, and similarly for folders containing aliases of personal
applications. (I don't know what it would do for a folder containing
aliases to both kinds of programs.)

Seems ridiculous, but it's the only thing I can think of. It does sound
like the kind of crazy thing Windows *might* do. Although, to be
honest, it sounds more like something a Mac might do, since the Mac
tends to make decisions (too many decisions) for you.

 

[Mayayana]

| Thanks very much for all your detailed information, especially in your
| next two postings! One of these days I'll have time to start digesting
| it and trying it out.

Sorry to keep dragging it out, but I noticed
a problem with the Desktop: Moving my Start Menu
into a common folder seems to work well. But when I
put both Desktops into a common folder I started
seeing two copies of all new files and shortcuts I
created! Similar to the problem you're seeing. It's
showing me everything in my personal Desktop folder
and everything in the All Users Desktop folder. But
now that they're the same folder, it shows me two of
anything new! So I had to solve it by creating an
empty C:\Windows\DesktopAll and assigning that
as the All Users Desktop. It seems that Explorer simply
can't handle a single Desktop folder.

 

[N. Miller]

On 10/1/11 1:00 PM, N. Miller wrote:

I never created any briefcases. They were created automatically by
Win98 (which created only one) and, apparently, by the conversion to XP,
since after converting there were now two, the All Users one and mine.

Made me look! I fired up an old Windows ME computer I have on the workbench:
No "My Briefcase" on the Desktop, though I can create one.

While there, I checked the mail server computer (Windows XP HE): No "My
Briefcase" on the desktop.

Both computers (HP Pavilion 6745C) had Windows ME freshly installed from the
OEM suppled CDs, with the one running Windows XP loaded from an Upgrade CD.
Neither have a newly created, by the OS install, Briefcase.

In fact, I've never even *used* a briefcase -- by the time I might have
needed one I was doing all file transfers and synchronization over the
internet anyway. So, strictly speaking, this is an academic discussion
for me. Just mentioning it as another example of the weirdness of Windows.

I see a weirdness in that I have two computers which never had a Briefcase
created by a Windows install.

As I mentioned, I was afraid to change the name of a system-created
folder, since doing so had caused problems the last time I tried it, in
98SE. (I think it was My Documents.)

I have no system created Briefcase folders across 6 computers: Windows ME
(x1), Windows XP (x2), or Windows 7 (x4).

Ah, but XP doesn't have a URL bar!

You're right. It is an "Address Bar". In Windows ME it shows only the name
of the current folder view. In Windows 7 it shows a complete URL. Oddly, in
Windows XP HE I am seeing a square labeled, "Address Bar" at the far right
of the menu bar, but no actual URL window. Curious.

Yes, *that*, at least, I was aware of. I generally try to install
everything to All Users (kind of irrelevant since I'm the only user, but
somehow it seems better to me to put them there). But I think some
programs don't give you an option.

Probably not. With Windows XP and Windows 7 I just let the installer go with
the default location (with only one exception due to issues with write
permissions in Windows 7).

Evidently *not* the same for XP, since some folders -- BTW I kept saying
"icons" but I meant folders -- some folders which I created wound up in
All Users and some wound up as personal. Since I have never logged in
as anyone except myself, I never created any folders except while in my
personal account, so I still can't explain the All Users folders. (And
how would you log in as "All Users" anyway???)

You don't log in as "All Users". The "All Users" folder is a global folder
accessible by multiple users, where multiple users have been configured on a
computer.

In Windows XP the path is: /%root%/Documents and Settings/%User%/.

On my mail server computer I have, "All Users", "HP_Administrator", and a
third user in place of /%User%/.

In Windows 7 the path is: /%root%/Users/%User%/.

On my primary use computer I have, "Public", "HP_Administrator", and 5 other
users in place of /%User%/.

I don't know why a user created Desktop item should go to "All Users" (or
"Public" in my case). I have never seen it happen.

The only thing I can think of this: Many of the folders contain aliases
of applications. Perhaps if Windows sees a folder containing an alias
of an All Users application it decides that the folder should be an All
Users folder, and similarly for folders containing aliases of personal
applications. (I don't know what it would do for a folder containing
aliases to both kinds of programs.)

I actually have no folders on my Desktop; with the possible exception of the
Recycle Bin, which is a system special object. All of my icons are
shortcuts, with the exception of two, or three images.

Seems ridiculous, but it's the only thing I can think of. It does sound
like the kind of crazy thing Windows *might* do. Although, to be
honest, it sounds more like something a Mac might do, since the Mac
tends to make decisions (too many decisions) for you.

I don't think I've seen but one application which creates a Desktop folder;
and that is just a container for the unzipped installer files, which can
safely be deleted after the installation is complete.

I have seen one application ask if it is going to be used by all users, or
just by the installing user. I believe that one would create a Desktop
shortcut based on the choice: "All Users" or "Public" if the choice is for
all users, or "%User%", where "%User%" is installing the application.

All other applications install a Desktop icon in the "All Users", or
"Public" Desktop folder.

 

[N. Miller]

| For examples, why have what
| should really be two folders been lumped into one: "Documents and
| Settings". Microsoft designers don't seem to be capable of
| understanding the logic of various categories.

I think that folder has been named "Users" in Vista/7,
so maybe someone did get it. "Users", as grotesque as
that characterization is, at least describes the structure:
"This is where you, and the software you run, are able
to read/write files."

That is taken directly from Unix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_directory_structure

But there really is no excuse for all that being forced. There's
no excuse for not having a simple checkbox in the "Users"
applet in Control Panel. Checking "This PC is a single-user
system" would then configure the system appropriately.

When I played a bit with HP-Unix, I had "Root access" on a particular
system. I believe I set up the file system thus:

/
/bin
/dev
/null
/home
/usr
/%User%

Something like that. The user named, %User% would not have root privilege,
and only be able to climb the folder tree to: /home/usr/%User%. It is the
method that Unix enforces access privileges to the file system.

Even with a single user system, it is consider wise to only allow limited
access privilege to the everyday user account; reserving administrative
privilege to the administrator account. This makes the system moderately
more secure against exploit than a pure single user system, like Window
95/98/Me, where any rogue application which insinuates itself onto the
system has full, administrative privilege. In the Unix world they have a
cute aphorism: "Live is a bitch, but having the root password helps".

 

[Dudley Brooks]

Sorry to keep dragging it out, but I noticed a problem with the
Desktop: Moving my Start Menu into a common folder seems to work
well. But when I put both Desktops into a common folder I started
seeing two copies of all new files and shortcuts I created! Similar
to the problem you're seeing. It's showing me everything in my
personal Desktop folder and everything in the All Users Desktop
folder. But now that they're the same folder, it shows me two of
anything new! So I had to solve it by creating an empty
C:\Windows\DesktopAll and assigning that as the All Users Desktop.
It seems that Explorer simply can't handle a single Desktop folder.

Lucky me! I only use my Windows computer for a couple of old programs I
really like which never issued newer versions -- and I only upgraded to
XP since it networks with my MacBook more easily than 98SE did -- so I
don't use it very frequently and I'll probably never get to have all
these strange Windows experiences! ;^)

Meanwhile, moving all my folders to the single Desktop does not seem to
have caused the same problem you're having.

 

[Dudley Brooks]

Made me look! I fired up an old Windows ME computer I have on the
workbench: No "My Briefcase" on the Desktop, though I can create
one.

While there, I checked the mail server computer (Windows XP HE): No
"My Briefcase" on the desktop.

Both computers (HP Pavilion 6745C) had Windows ME freshly installed
from the OEM suppled CDs, with the one running Windows XP loaded from
an Upgrade CD. Neither have a newly created, by the OS install,
Briefcase.

My Briefcase was there from the start with my HP which came with Win98
(not SE) preinstalled. So I guess it must have been OEM. I had assumed
that it was a system special object -- mistakenly, I guess.

I see a weirdness in that I have two computers which never had a
Briefcase created by a Windows install.



I have no system created Briefcase folders across 6 computers:
Windows ME (x1), Windows XP (x2), or Windows 7 (x4).



You're right. It is an "Address Bar". In Windows ME it shows only
the name of the current folder view. In Windows 7 it shows a
complete URL. Oddly, in Windows XP HE I am seeing a square labeled,
"Address Bar" at the far right of the menu bar, but no actual URL
window. Curious.



Probably not. With Windows XP and Windows 7 I just let the installer
go with the default location (with only one exception due to issues
with write permissions in Windows 7).



You don't log in as "All Users". The "All Users" folder is a global
folder accessible by multiple users, where multiple users have been
configured on a computer.

Yes, I know. I was being ironic. Meaning, I didn't see any way I could
have created a folder in the All Users desktop. But see below for what
I think the explanation might be.

In Windows XP the path is: /%root%/Documents and Settings/%User%/.

On my mail server computer I have, "All Users", "HP_Administrator",
and a third user in place of /%User%/.

In Windows 7 the path is: /%root%/Users/%User%/.

On my primary use computer I have, "Public", "HP_Administrator", and
5 other users in place of /%User%/.

I don't know why a user created Desktop item should go to "All Users"
(or "Public" in my case). I have never seen it happen.

I don't know why either (except see below), but it happened to six
folders which I created.

I actually have no folders on my Desktop; with the possible exception
of the Recycle Bin, which is a system special object. All of my
icons are shortcuts, with the exception of two, or three images.

And the *only* things I have on my desktop (except for the system
special objects) are folders which I created myself. (Since My
Briefcase showed up without me creating it, I assumed -- mistakenly,
apparently -- that it was a system special object.)

I don't think I've seen but one application which creates a Desktop
folder; and that is just a container for the unzipped installer
files, which can safely be deleted after the installation is
complete.

Right, none of the applications I installed created a desktop folder --
I created all the folders myself (except for the two "My Briefcase"s).
The applications merely *installed* themselves either for All Users or
for my personal account.

I have seen one application ask if it is going to be used by all
users, or just by the installing user. I believe that one would
create a Desktop shortcut based on the choice: "All Users" or
"Public" if the choice is for all users, or "%User%", where "%User%"
is installing the application.

All other applications install a Desktop icon in the "All Users", or
"Public" Desktop folder.

And I always either delete the Desktop icon or put it into a folder I
create. (The folders are for different *types* of applications, e.g.
music applications, math applications, office-type applications, etc.)
That's why the only thing that shows up (top level) on my Desktop are
folders.

I haven't installed a new application on my Windows computer for so many
years, that I don't remember how many asked where I wanted to install
them. I just remember that sometimes I was asked and sometimes I wasn't

But in another branch of this thread Mayayana says that moving all the
Desktop items to the single Desktop created duplicates of *all* of them!
(That hasn't happened to me.) So I'm guessing that the upgrade to XP
took the OEM My Briefcase (which was probably in my personal account)
and duplicated it to the All Users account. One folder which I didn't
create became two folders which I didn't create! ;^)