APC-Anyone else been ripped off?

[Jimmy]

APC BACK-UPS XS 1000 purchased at Staples. 2002 model. I am also wondering
about the quality of products like this sold by this and other companies
mentioned by APC tech support like Fry's.
Now that this unit has failed and I have become aware that there is
absolutely no replacement battery available and never was and most likely
never will be I have to wonder how many others feel the way I do. After
three conversations with TS I hear the mention of units that are distributed
by these type of outlets as have less than usual quality with fewer
features(although not advertised as so). Something that I have always
suspected about my experiences with Staples but never validated until now.

Advertised as a battery being available with a light on the face plate
indicating such, software says its so but on reality not .No replacement
battery means spending $160.00 for a whole new unit which is the basis of my
discontent.

Any comments on the sales practices of these outlets and the obvious
compromise of otherwise a respected product?

Jimmy

 

[Bill Bradshaw]

Have you taken the information off of the battery and performed an internet
search? I have never purchased my replacement batteries from APC because I
can always find another source that sells the same identical battery for
less. By the way 3 years is about right for a UPS battery.

 

[Jimmy]

Have you taken the information off of the battery and performed an
internet search? I have never purchased my replacement batteries
from APC because I can always find another source that sells the same
identical battery for less. By the way 3 years is about right for a
UPS battery.

This has been done finally with the help of others in usenet after strong
advisement against this from APC TS. I understand that the life of the
battery is limited but the issue is the purchase of a unit under false
pretenses. My intentions were not to rant but to assess the opinions of
others mainly of the practice of the intended distribution of products of
lesser quality by institutions of equal integrity. Stores willing to engage
in a practice I view as a bit underhanded and deceitful.

J.

 

[S.Heenan]

APC BACK-UPS XS 1000 purchased at Staples. 2002 model. I am also wondering
about the quality of products like this sold by this and other companies
mentioned by APC tech support like Fry's.
Now that this unit has failed and I have become aware that there is
absolutely no replacement battery available and never was and most likely
never will be I have to wonder how many others feel the way I do. After
three conversations with TS I hear the mention of units that are distributed
by these type of outlets as have less than usual quality with fewer
features(although not advertised as so). Something that I have always
suspected about my experiences with Staples but never validated until now.

Chances are a local battery remanufacturer can rebuild the unit for a
reasonable sum. Call around.

 

[Vanguard]

APC BACK-UPS XS 1000 purchased at Staples. 2002 model. I am also
wondering about the quality of products like this sold by this and
other companies mentioned by APC tech support like Fry's.
Now that this unit has failed and I have become aware that there is
absolutely no replacement battery available and never was and most
likely never will be I have to wonder how many others feel the way I
do. After three conversations with TS I hear the mention of units that
are distributed by these type of outlets as have less than usual
quality with fewer features(although not advertised as so). Something
that I have always suspected about my experiences with Staples but
never validated until now.

Advertised as a battery being available with a light on the face plate
indicating such, software says its so but on reality not .No
replacement battery means spending $160.00 for a whole new unit which
is the basis of my discontent.

Any comments on the sales practices of these outlets and the obvious
compromise of otherwise a respected product?

I went to Batteries Plus (http://www.batteriesplus.com/) to get
replacements for my 6-year old sealed lead-acid batteries. Getting them
from the manufacturer would've cost $180 for each battery (plus
shipping) and there were 2 batteries (it is a 2kVA sinusoidal UPS). I
bought the replacement batteries at Batteries Plus for $158 and that was
the total cost for BOTH of them. I suspect that they might not be the
cheapest but they had the expertise to look for equivalent replacements
based on dimensions, current draw, and other characteristics to best
match the replacement batteries to the old ones. Those batteries have
worked for almost 3 years now. That was a cheap repair since the UPS
goes for over $1500 (it was over $3000 when bought).

My Tripp-Lite BC-450 (no longer used for my computer but now for the
cable modem and an emergency fluorscent lamp) also needed its battery
replaced and that was half the price for the battery at Batteries Plus
than buying a new one.

Have you checked if the shell for the casing can be opened so you can
replace the battery yourself? The Back-UPS RS and XS look to be very
similar models (with a couple features missing from the XS model). If
their cases are the same, as shown at
http://www.apc.com/products/moreima...ck/94929DB5-5056-9170-D3816E05436D019E_pr.jpg,
then you can remove those screws to open the case. Be sure to use
masking tape and a Sharpie marker to identify which wire goes where so
you hook it up the same after replacing the battery. The specs for the
RS model (http://snipurl.com/ddog) says it uses the model RBC32 battery.
BatteriesPlus lists it at http://snipurl.com/ddoe but no pricing so
you'll have to call them to get a price.

The price differential - when purchasing retail - between the batteries
and the batteries with the case and its electronics - may be too small
for a retailer to bother carrying just the batteries, or for the
manufacturer to provide them separately. If the battery costs $150 and
the whole unit sells for $160, why would you care and why would you
think the retailer or manufacturer would bother providing the batteries
separately? I called Batteries Plus and they quoted a price of $26 for
their SLAA12-7.5F2 model battery. If there isn't a Batteries Plus in
your area, you're stuck with whomever is a supplier in your area or go
online. But $26 is a far cry from $160 for the entire unit.

 

[kony]

APC BACK-UPS XS 1000 purchased at Staples. 2002 model. I am also wondering
about the quality of products like this sold by this and other companies
mentioned by APC tech support like Fry's.
Now that this unit has failed and I have become aware that there is
absolutely no replacement battery available and never was and most likely
never will be I have to wonder how many others feel the way I do. After
three conversations with TS I hear the mention of units that are distributed
by these type of outlets as have less than usual quality with fewer
features(although not advertised as so). Something that I have always
suspected about my experiences with Staples but never validated until now.

Advertised as a battery being available with a light on the face plate
indicating such, software says its so but on reality not .No replacement
battery means spending $160.00 for a whole new unit which is the basis of my
discontent.

Any comments on the sales practices of these outlets and the obvious
compromise of otherwise a respected product?

Jimmy

Do you think every major retailer has time to thoroughly
investigate every product they sell? How much more would
you be willing to pay for this service?

Offhand I'd guess that you need a pair of 12V, 7AH
batteries. They're common as dirt at places that sell UPS
batteries. Please tell us if yours uses different
batteries, (and which it uses) as this info might be useful
to someone else in same predicament, in the future.

 

[ric]

Offhand I'd guess that you need a pair of 12V, 7AH
batteries. They're common as dirt at places that sell UPS
batteries. Please tell us if yours uses different
batteries, (and which it uses) as this info might be useful
to someone else in same predicament, in the future.

Motorcycle shops sell batteries like the above that work great in
UPS systems.

 

[Jerry G.]

If you remove the battery, there are some numbers on it, including its
rating. Take a tape measure and measure its dimensions. You will see the
Voltage, Amp Hours, and then the part numbers on the battery.

These batteries are an industry standard. In the APC, they mount them up
with their own mountings. You can either go directly to APC and order a
battery replacement kit, or go to an electronics parts distributor, and
order the battery as a part. I would believe your UPS uses 2 of 12 Volt
batteries. I have no idea of the Ampere Hours of them in your particular
model.

Because of the way the batteries are mounted in, it will take someone who is
used to doing some technical work in this nature. Most of the TV service
shops, should be able to change the batteries for you, especially if you
supply the batteries, and pay them the labour for their time.

I have 2 APC 1000's here at the office. They are using 12 Volts, 12 Amp Hour
batteries. The part number is LC-RA1212P. This may not be the same for
yours. Going from memory, I think these batteries cost me about $60 each.
There are two in each UPS. They last about 3 to 4 years.

--

Jerry G.
=====

APC BACK-UPS XS 1000 purchased at Staples. 2002 model. I am also wondering
about the quality of products like this sold by this and other companies
mentioned by APC tech support like Fry's.
Now that this unit has failed and I have become aware that there is
absolutely no replacement battery available and never was and most likely
never will be I have to wonder how many others feel the way I do. After
three conversations with TS I hear the mention of units that are distributed
by these type of outlets as have less than usual quality with fewer
features(although not advertised as so). Something that I have always
suspected about my experiences with Staples but never validated until now.

Advertised as a battery being available with a light on the face plate
indicating such, software says its so but on reality not .No replacement
battery means spending $160.00 for a whole new unit which is the basis of my
discontent.

Any comments on the sales practices of these outlets and the obvious
compromise of otherwise a respected product?

Jimmy

 

[Jimmy]

Chances are a local battery remanufacturer can rebuild the unit for a
reasonable sum. Call around.

Excellent suggestion. Thank you.

J.

 

[Jimmy]

I went to Batteries Plus (http://www.batteriesplus.com/) to get
replacements for my 6-year old sealed lead-acid batteries. Getting
them from the manufacturer would've cost $180 for each battery (plus
shipping) and there were 2 batteries (it is a 2kVA sinusoidal UPS). I
bought the replacement batteries at Batteries Plus for $158 and that
was the total cost for BOTH of them. I suspect that they might not
be the cheapest but they had the expertise to look for equivalent
replacements based on dimensions, current draw, and other
characteristics to best match the replacement batteries to the old
ones. Those batteries have worked for almost 3 years now. That was
a cheap repair since the UPS goes for over $1500 (it was over $3000
when bought).
My Tripp-Lite BC-450 (no longer used for my computer but now for the
cable modem and an emergency fluorscent lamp) also needed its battery
replaced and that was half the price for the battery at Batteries Plus
than buying a new one.

Have you checked if the shell for the casing can be opened so you can
replace the battery yourself? The Back-UPS RS and XS look to be very
similar models (with a couple features missing from the XS model). If
their cases are the same, as shown at
http://www.apc.com/products/moreima...ck/94929DB5-5056-9170-D3816E05436D019E_pr.jpg,
then you can remove those screws to open the case. Be sure to use
masking tape and a Sharpie marker to identify which wire goes where so
you hook it up the same after replacing the battery. The specs for
the RS model (http://snipurl.com/ddog) says it uses the model RBC32
battery. BatteriesPlus lists it at http://snipurl.com/ddoe but no
pricing so you'll have to call them to get a price.

The price differential - when purchasing retail - between the
batteries and the batteries with the case and its electronics - may
be too small for a retailer to bother carrying just the batteries, or
for the manufacturer to provide them separately. If the battery costs
$150 and the whole unit sells for $160, why would you care and why
would you think the retailer or manufacturer would bother providing
the batteries separately? I called Batteries Plus and they quoted a
price of $26 for their SLAA12-7.5F2 model battery. If there isn't a
Batteries Plus in your area, you're stuck with whomever is a supplier
in your area or go online. But $26 is a far cry from $160 for the
entire unit.

I have not opened the unit yet but I plan on doing this soon. I am still
really wondering if the battery actually DID fail as I am now no longer
getting any indication of the battery having needing replacement. Any
rechargeable battery I have used before has never recovered on it's own. I
most likely will be testing this somehow I would imagine. I have to wonder
what you are backing up if you paid about 20 times more that I for such a
product. I thought I was overkill when I bought the best one on Staples
shelf at the time for one system.

J.

 

[Jimmy]

Do you think every major retailer has time to thoroughly
investigate every product they sell? How much more would
you be willing to pay for this service?

If you are referring to the practices of Staples and other mentioned
outlets I am sure that they are fully aware of this if the APC TS guy knew.
I have always suspected Staples of distributing after market and no longer
supported items as I have purchased many outdated software in the past. I am
never assuming any large institution as being ignorant of anything they do.

Offhand I'd guess that you need a pair of 12V, 7AH
batteries. They're common as dirt at places that sell UPS
batteries. Please tell us if yours uses different
batteries, (and which it uses) as this info might be useful
to someone else in same predicament, in the future.

Thank you Kony. I will repost exactly what I do to get this unit operating
again.

J.

 

[Jimmy]

Motorcycle shops sell batteries like the above that work great in
UPS systems.

Great suggestion. There are more of those in my area than any other place
to look. Maybe I could just run some jumper cables in my window and connect
up my dad's old Studabaker

J.

 

[Jimmy]

If you remove the battery, there are some numbers on it, including its
rating. Take a tape measure and measure its dimensions. You will see
the Voltage, Amp Hours, and then the part numbers on the battery.

These batteries are an industry standard. In the APC, they mount them
up with their own mountings. You can either go directly to APC and
order a battery replacement kit, or go to an electronics parts
distributor, and order the battery as a part. I would believe your
UPS uses 2 of 12 Volt batteries. I have no idea of the Ampere Hours
of them in your particular model.

Because of the way the batteries are mounted in, it will take someone
who is used to doing some technical work in this nature. Most of the
TV service shops, should be able to change the batteries for you,
especially if you supply the batteries, and pay them the labour for
their time.

I have 2 APC 1000's here at the office. They are using 12 Volts, 12
Amp Hour batteries. The part number is LC-RA1212P. This may not be
the same for yours. Going from memory, I think these batteries cost
me about $60 each. There are two in each UPS. They last about 3 to 4
years.

Thanks Jerry. This is the first B Backup I have owned so I will enjoy
opening up the unit I have.

J.

 

[Wayne Morgan]

Assuming it's like any other lead-acid battery, it can give a bad indication
then recover for a short time. A car battery would be a good example.
Sometimes something comes loose in the battery and moving it around (which
happens automatically in a car) will jostle it back in place, but only for a
short time.

 

[Jimmy]

Assuming it's like any other lead-acid battery, it can give a bad
indication then recover for a short time. A car battery would be a
good example. Sometimes something comes loose in the battery and
moving it around (which happens automatically in a car) will jostle
it back in place, but only for a short time.

I guess I have to review my understanding of such a battery. I am not sure
I am dealing with a wet cell or otherwise.

J.

 

[kony]

I guess I have to review my understanding of such a battery. I am not sure
I am dealing with a wet cell or otherwise.

They almost always use sealed lead-acid cells.

 

[kony]

Great suggestion. There are more of those in my area than any other place
to look. Maybe I could just run some jumper cables in my window and connect
up my dad's old Studabaker

Keep in mind that some might not be optimal for this as
you'd need something geared more towards deep-cycles, more
tolerant of depletion.

 

[Wayne Morgan]

Agreed, they are sealed cells, but they can still have connections come
loose inside that may temporarily reconnect when the unit is moved.

 

[S.Heenan]

Keep in mind that some might not be optimal for this as
you'd need something geared more towards deep-cycles, more
tolerant of depletion.

How about gel cells ? Don't they have roughly the same charge density as
lead acid cells ?

 

[kony]

How about gel cells ? Don't they have roughly the same charge density as
lead acid cells ?

Don't know but aren't they more expensive?
I'd always assumed there was no practical benefit to the
gel-cells unless there was a real potential for 'em tipping
over or a need to mount in non-upright position.