First time APC BACK-UPS user needs help with the Building wiring fault indicator

D

Dunny Rummy

I bought a APC BACK-UPS RS 800VA 120V and love it! In the spring time
and early summer (believe it or not) I get a lot of power brownouts.
The power company claims that squirrels are most of the cause of it
(LOL).

Anyway I carefully followed the instructions but still see
the Building wiring fault indicator in red. I don't have three pronged
outlets (old complex) so I grounded using the plate screw. Is this
right? Should I be concerned? The unit runs perfectly though. I had an
occurrence to see the APC in action a few days ago and my PC never
batted a eye during the incident


P.S. I used a two prong adaptor with an grounding wire.

TIA
 
W

Wayne Morgan

The UPS is also a surge suppressor. It will use the 3rd wire ground to route
any surges through. You probably don't have sufficient ground on the screw.
Another thing that can cause the light to be on is high neutral voltage, a
common problem in old buildings. The UPS part ought to work, the problem is
going to be with the surge suppression. Also, there may be some other
problem in the building wiring that could cause a problem for the entire
building, depending on what it actually is.
 
J

John McGaw

Dunny Rummy said:
I bought a APC BACK-UPS RS 800VA 120V and love it! In the spring time
and early summer (believe it or not) I get a lot of power brownouts.
The power company claims that squirrels are most of the cause of it
(LOL).

Anyway I carefully followed the instructions but still see
the Building wiring fault indicator in red. I don't have three pronged
outlets (old complex) so I grounded using the plate screw. Is this
right? Should I be concerned? The unit runs perfectly though. I had an
occurrence to see the APC in action a few days ago and my PC never
batted a eye during the incident


P.S. I used a two prong adaptor with an grounding wire.

TIA
Click to expand...

If your UPS uses a single indicator to show problems it isn't going to be
any help in determining what the problems might be. The best suggestion I
can give is to buy one of the simple outlet testers sold at every hardware
store and home center. These typically have three indicators on them and
along with a chart will indicate exactly what is wrong. You should be
prepared for the worst though -- the problem is likely to be something that
requires at least opening and re-wiring your outlet(s) and/or it may require
running new wires from the panel and providing a proper ground point.
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]

Return address will not work. Please
reply in group or through my website:
http://johnmcgaw.com
 
D

Dunny Rummy

I rent in this apt complex
So rewiring might be out of the question. Maybe there is a way to run
a ground wire but from where to where?
The breaker box is just 2 feet from where the UPS is pluged in. A
coworker said if I can find a water pipe I can run a wire from the
water pipe to the outlet where the UPS is pluged in. Is this true?
What am I looking for with this outlet tester?
TIA
 
P

philo

Dunny Rummy said:
I rent in this apt complex
So rewiring might be out of the question. Maybe there is a way to run
a ground wire but from where to where?
The breaker box is just 2 feet from where the UPS is pluged in. A
coworker said if I can find a water pipe I can run a wire from the
water pipe to the outlet where the UPS is pluged in. Is this true?
What am I looking for with this outlet tester?
TIA
Click to expand...


It's possible the plug is not polarized correctly
unplug it and flip it around. It the red light is still on then put it back
the way it was as evidently there is a grounding propblem
 
C

ChrisJ9876

From: "Wayne Morgan" (e-mail address removed)
Date: 01/13/2004 6:27 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email protected]>

The UPS is also a surge suppressor. It will use the 3rd wire ground to route
any surges through. You probably don't have sufficient ground on the screw.
Another thing that can cause the light to be on is high neutral voltage, a
common problem in old buildings. The UPS part ought to work, the problem is
going to be with the surge suppression. Also, there may be some other
problem in the building wiring that could cause a problem for the entire
building, depending on what it actually is.
Click to expand...

If it's an old building with old wiring, it's possible that the outlet box is
not grounded at all; if so, the wire you attached to the plate screw is not
connected to ground.
 
D

Dunny Rummy

Is there a way to fix this if it is the problem?
I just want make sure my APC BACK-UPS will be able to carry out in the
event of a black out or brownout. I get frustrated when I lose work
when brownouts happen (though minnor).
TIA!
 
P

philo

Dunny Rummy said:
Is there a way to fix this if it is the problem?
Click to expand...

Yes! the outlet needs to be properly polarized and grounded.
I just want make sure my APC BACK-UPS will be able to carry out in the
event of a black out or brownout. I get frustrated when I lose work
when brownouts happen (though minnor).
TIA!
Click to expand...

If you use the UPS as it is presently...you may still have brownout
protection...
but there is definately a safety issue.

Although you landlord *should* pay to have an electrician repair it...
for the purpose of safety...maybe you could offer to pay half. It's a
relatively
minor job.
 
W

w_tom

Safety ground is unrelated to battery backup - from
blackouts and brownouts. Most common failure of a UPS is dead
battery. These plug-in UPSes tend to lose batteries in but a
few years - rapid battery failure. Test is quite simple. Use
computer with battery backup unplugged from wall receptacle.
If computer works for many minutes, then battery inside
battery backup is OK.

That ground light does nothing for transient protection. In
fact, that APC UPS does not even claim to protect from
destructive transients. Read their specs (if even
available). It claims no common mode transient protection;
which is irrelevant to that red warning light.

That red 'missing ground' light is reporting a human safety
problem and a possible threat to interconnected electronics.
Your receptacles are only two prong because no safety ground
wire exists. Using the receptacle screw will do nothing
because that safety ground wire is not installed. Only
solution is to run a safety ground wire from breaker box.
Even grounding to a cold water pipe is a bad and completely
unacceptable solution; may create a threat to human safety;
and not even sufficient as an earth ground.

Note the difference - safety and earth grounds. That wall
receptacle is missing a safety ground which is different from
earth ground. Earth ground is necessary for transient
protection. That red light can not report and does not even
claim to test the existence of earth ground. That red light
reports a human safety and other potential problems.
 
C

CBFalconer

w_tom said:
Safety ground is unrelated to battery backup - from
blackouts and brownouts. Most common failure of a UPS is dead
battery. These plug-in UPSes tend to lose batteries in but a
few years - rapid battery failure. Test is quite simple. Use
computer with battery backup unplugged from wall receptacle.
If computer works for many minutes, then battery inside
battery backup is OK.
Click to expand...

Speaking of UPSs, I have here a non-functional APC 420 Backup Pro
that I picked up for $5 at a tag sale. I suspect it needs only a
battery. Can I try it out with something like a car battery
hooked in to check, and if it flies where does one go for a new
internal battery?

Meanwhile an APC BE350, which came from a Staples close-out at
about $30, is doing fine. I also have old wiring with 2 pin
plugs, so the power fault is always on. It gives me about 5 to 10
minutes to shut down.
 
K

kony

Speaking of UPSs, I have here a non-functional APC 420 Backup Pro
that I picked up for $5 at a tag sale. I suspect it needs only a
battery. Can I try it out with something like a car battery
hooked in to check, and if it flies where does one go for a new
internal battery?

Meanwhile an APC BE350, which came from a Staples close-out at
about $30, is doing fine. I also have old wiring with 2 pin
plugs, so the power fault is always on. It gives me about 5 to 10
minutes to shut down.
Click to expand...

You can try a car battery but it would seem easier to use the battery
from the BE350, will likely have the same 1/4" quick-connect
terminals, and also that would allow testing the charging, something
not as easy with a high-capacity car battery. This is assuming it
uses a 12V battery... I know at least one of the APC 350VA units does,
but they now also make some low-profile units that I haven't any
experience with.

Also that car battery might provide too great a capacity, exceeding
the thermal dissipation capabilities of the unit, if it were only
meant to deal with amount of heat created by running for the short
time and/or current before the much smaller original battery was
exhausted.


"Usually" those over 350VA use a standard, 12V 7AH lead-acid battery,
but you can check the dimensions of the battery compartment to confirm
it. The dimensions of a 7AH battery are roughly 6" x 2.5" x 3.75",
rounded to nearest 1/4".

They're pretty common, the harder part isn't finding one but finding
the best price. Considering that it could easily cost $6-10 to ship
one, it may be as cost-effective to just buy a new 500VA UPS...
occasionally I see them offered for ~$20-30 after a rebate at popular
Office Supply or Electronics Superstores.


Dave
 
W

w_tom

Be careful what battery is connected to that UPS. Lead acid
batteries create Hydrogen when recharging; an explosive gas.
A battery inside or attached to a UPS must also be designed
for confined locations, and must not outgas. Vehicle
batteries need not meet this more stringent limitation.
 
C

CBFalconer

w_tom said:
Be careful what battery is connected to that UPS. Lead acid
batteries create Hydrogen when recharging; an explosive gas.
A battery inside or attached to a UPS must also be designed
for confined locations, and must not outgas. Vehicle
batteries need not meet this more stringent limitation.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I only want to do this to check if the unit functions
at all. Not for permanent operation. However, now that I think
about it, it could be used as an inverter in automobiles, again
assuming that the duty cycle and heat dissipation is suitable.
 
Top