Any good backup program?

H

Holt

I am looking for a backup program. Could you give me any recommendation?

I would like to back up the entire internal hard drive including the OS. If
the system ever corrupts, then I will want to re-format the entire drive,
and then restore what was previously backed up. My OS is Windows XP. I do
not need the feature of network backup. I intend to back up only one
laptop/notebook computer.

After I re-format the internal drive, can I boot the PC from a removable
drive (such as DVD, CD, or external HD) in which the backup/restoration
program resides?
 
R

Rock

Holt said:
I am looking for a backup program. Could you give me any recommendation?

I would like to back up the entire internal hard drive including the OS. If
the system ever corrupts, then I will want to re-format the entire drive,
and then restore what was previously backed up. My OS is Windows XP. I do
not need the feature of network backup. I intend to back up only one
laptop/notebook computer.

After I re-format the internal drive, can I boot the PC from a removable
drive (such as DVD, CD, or external HD) in which the backup/restoration
program resides?

There are at several approaches. One is to use an imaging program.
This makes an exact image of the partition which can be saved on CD/DVD
or to another drive - internal or external with external much preferred
over internal. Restores can be done of the entire partition or
individual files / folders. These work well and make it easy to recover
from a drive crash. Examples of this are:

Norton Ghost 9.0
Acronis True Image
Terabyte Unlimited's Image for Windows and BootItNg

These programs can also make a clone of the drive onto another drive.

The second option is a traditional backup program such as Stompsoft's
Backup My PC. This is an excellent tool. It is the evolution of
ntbackup. There are other good backup programs out there as well. This
can do a complete backup or backup individual files and folders to
DVD/CD and other drives.

XP comes with a backup program, ntbackup, which is installed in XP Pro
but not Home. For Home if you have the XP CD it can be found in the
\MSFT\ValueADD\Ntbackup folder as ntbackup.msi or download it from here:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/windowsxp_tips.htm#backup_home

Ntbackup cannot backup to DVD and will only backup to CD if other 3rd
party CD burning software is available and even with that it will not
span CDs, i.e. one CD is the limit, which is not very practical. It is
geared toward tape drives or other hard drives. It will work ok in
backing up to an external hard drive (or network drive) and restoring
individual files / folders is ok, but if you need to restore the
complete drive it's cumbersome. XP must be installed first. If you
have XP Pro, Ntbackup has an ASR feature (Automated System Recovery)
which makes this restore of a boot/system drive easier but still it
takes much longer than an imaging program, and I never got it to restore
my system to full functionality as it was when the backup was made. It
also mandates that a floppy drive be available. One floppy disk is
created in the ASR process and there is no way around that. ASR is not
available on XP Home addition.


I use and recommend an imaging program using an external USB 2.0 hard
drive. Restores are easy and reliable. I use Drive Image 7 from
PowerQuest, which is no longer available. They were bought out by
Symantec and their technology incorporated in the latest version of
Norton Ghost.
 
L

Lua

Holt said:
I am looking for a backup program. Could you give me any recommendation?

I would like to back up the entire internal hard drive including the OS. If
the system ever corrupts, then I will want to re-format the entire drive,
and then restore what was previously backed up. My OS is Windows XP. I do
not need the feature of network backup. I intend to back up only one
laptop/notebook computer.

After I re-format the internal drive, can I boot the PC from a removable
drive (such as DVD, CD, or external HD) in which the backup/restoration
program resides?


Acronis True Image is exactly what you want and way in front of the
competition - see other threads for details.
Lu
 
D

Don Schmidt

BackUp MyPC has been working great for me. I backup my C & D drives on E
(three hard drive units).
 
A

Anna

There are at several
approaches. One is to use an imaging program.
This makes an exact image of the partition which can be saved on CD/DVD or
to another drive - internal or external with external much preferred over
internal. Restores can be done of the entire partition or individual
files / folders. These work well and make it easy to recover from a drive
crash. Examples of this are:

Norton Ghost 9.0
Acronis True Image
Terabyte Unlimited's Image for Windows and BootItNg

These programs can also make a clone of the drive onto another drive.

The second option is a traditional backup program such as Stompsoft's
Backup My PC. This is an excellent tool. It is the evolution of
ntbackup. There are other good backup programs out there as well. This
can do a complete backup or backup individual files and folders to DVD/CD
and other drives.

XP comes with a backup program, ntbackup, which is installed in XP Pro but
not Home. For Home if you have the XP CD it can be found in the
\MSFT\ValueADD\Ntbackup folder as ntbackup.msi or download it from here:
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/windowsxp_tips.htm#backup_home

Ntbackup cannot backup to DVD and will only backup to CD if other 3rd
party CD burning software is available and even with that it will not span
CDs, i.e. one CD is the limit, which is not very practical. It is geared
toward tape drives or other hard drives. It will work ok in backing up to
an external hard drive (or network drive) and restoring individual files /
folders is ok, but if you need to restore the complete drive it's
cumbersome. XP must be installed first. If you have XP Pro, Ntbackup has
an ASR feature (Automated System Recovery) which makes this restore of a
boot/system drive easier but still it takes much longer than an imaging
program, and I never got it to restore my system to full functionality as
it was when the backup was made. It also mandates that a floppy drive be
available. One floppy disk is created in the ASR process and there is no
way around that. ASR is not available on XP Home addition.


I use and recommend an imaging program using an external USB 2.0 hard
drive. Restores are easy and reliable. I use Drive Image 7 from
PowerQuest, which is no longer available. They were bought out by
Symantec and their technology incorporated in the latest version of Norton
Ghost.


Holt:
If my memory serves me correctly (which it doesn't always do!) you've raised
this same basic query in the not-too-distant past and as I recall the
resultant thread was quite lengthy and comprehensive in that you received
some excellent responses & suggestions from a number of responders with
respect to various backup programs and their methodologies. I was just
curious as to whether you found them wanting in some respect, and if so, why
so in your particular circumstances. If I have misidentified you, please
accept my apologies.

Rock's summary of the various types of backup programs available to the
average PC user is truly excellent and well-worth digesting.

In response to your specific question as to the booting capability of an
external hard drive (presumably you're referring to a USB/Firewire EHD)
containing the XP OS - the answer is "no", you cannot boot to that device.
Regardless of the motherboard's BIOS so-called "capability" to permit
booting from a USB device where the XP OS is concerned. At least as far as
we know.

Again, if memory serves me correctly, I believe it was previously pointed
out to you, that an "external" SATA HD -- one that is physically residing
outside the computer's case -- that contains a bootable XP OS *can* boot
since the system considers that drive as an "internal" one. So if one
employed a disk imaging program such as the one's mentioned by Rock to clone
the contents of one's internal HD to the "external" SATA drive, the latter
would be bootable.
Anna
 
P

Pegasus \(MVP\)

Holt said:
I am looking for a backup program. Could you give me any recommendation?

I would like to back up the entire internal hard drive including the OS. If
the system ever corrupts, then I will want to re-format the entire drive,
and then restore what was previously backed up. My OS is Windows XP. I do
not need the feature of network backup. I intend to back up only one
laptop/notebook computer.

After I re-format the internal drive, can I boot the PC from a removable
drive (such as DVD, CD, or external HD) in which the backup/restoration
program resides?

As Anna suggests, you discussed this issue in a separate thread
not so long ago, and you're already fully aware of the possibilities
offered by a Bart PE bootable CD.
 
M

Mike Fields

Lua said:
Acronis True Image is exactly what you want and way in front of the
competition - see other threads for details.
Lu

But before you leap on Acronis True Image, check out their forums
-- they have a new version 9 out that has quite a few people upset.
I have version 8.0.937 (latest build of 8). I found today that it would
not clone disks like it says it can. Snooping the forums, quite a
number of others have had the same problem with it and XP.
Their tech support does respond fairly quickly, however, there
are a number of issues recently. Check out the forums at
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I had to go back to the Drive Image 7 I purchased some time back
to get what I wanted done.

mikey
 
L

Lua

Mike said:
But before you leap on Acronis True Image, check out their forums
-- they have a new version 9 out that has quite a few people upset.
I have version 8.0.937 (latest build of 8). I found today that it would
not clone disks like it says it can. Snooping the forums, quite a
number of others have had the same problem with it and XP.
Their tech support does respond fairly quickly, however, there
are a number of issues recently. Check out the forums at
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65
I had to go back to the Drive Image 7 I purchased some time back
to get what I wanted done.

mikey


I am very surprised. I have used V8 and now V9 and find it faultless. In
what way will V8 not clone a disk?
Lu
 
M

Mike Fields

Lua said:
I am very surprised. I have used V8 and now V9 and find it faultless. In
what way will V8 not clone a disk?
Lu

If you follow the directions in the docs to clone a disk, you go
through the setup, configure the clone then it says it wants to
reboot. At reboot, it starts to scan for the disk, finds the first
one and then can't find the second and aborts. If you let it
boot at that point, even windows disk manager can not find the
disk anymore, but if you then power down and back up, the
disk appears again. A number of people in the support forums
have reported the same (or similar) issue under XP with build
937 of 8.0 -- Acronis response to their problems was to buy
the new 9.0 and there are quite a number of people who are
having significant problems with 9.0. A number of people
reported the clone worked if you used the boot cd - except
that then uncovers another "minor" issue (which I have also
experienced) - under the linux drivers (the boot cd uses linux),
the backup, instead of 15 minutes will take HOURS (or a
restore). I went back to my copy of Drive Image 7 and it had
no problem copying the one drive to the second.

Another thing I found disturbing was I just bought 8.0 so it is
not *that* old (and downloaded the latest version 2 months back).
All the FAQ's etc for that version have vanished off their site.
Only ver 9 docs there.

Winxp Pro, 1 gig RAM, Asus (intel) motherboard).
Drives on the PRI IDE controller.
 
L

Lua

Mike said:
If you follow the directions in the docs to clone a disk, you go
through the setup, configure the clone then it says it wants to
reboot. At reboot, it starts to scan for the disk, finds the first
one and then can't find the second and aborts. If you let it
boot at that point, even windows disk manager can not find the
disk anymore, but if you then power down and back up, the
disk appears again. A number of people in the support forums
have reported the same (or similar) issue under XP with build
937 of 8.0 -- Acronis response to their problems was to buy
the new 9.0 and there are quite a number of people who are
having significant problems with 9.0. A number of people
reported the clone worked if you used the boot cd - except
that then uncovers another "minor" issue (which I have also
experienced) - under the linux drivers (the boot cd uses linux),
the backup, instead of 15 minutes will take HOURS (or a
restore). I went back to my copy of Drive Image 7 and it had
no problem copying the one drive to the second.

Another thing I found disturbing was I just bought 8.0 so it is
not *that* old (and downloaded the latest version 2 months back).
All the FAQ's etc for that version have vanished off their site.
Only ver 9 docs there.

Winxp Pro, 1 gig RAM, Asus (intel) motherboard).
Drives on the PRI IDE controller.


Indeed, that is not good news, so I guess I have been lucky so far!
I went to the forum and I did find a FAQ for version 8 (it was hidden in
one of the replies to a post).
Lu
 
U

Uncle Joe

I was in CompUSA this past Saturday and they were
selling boxed copies of Acronis True Image version 8
as "new".
 
K

Kerry Brown

Mike Fields said:
If you follow the directions in the docs to clone a disk, you go
through the setup, configure the clone then it says it wants to
reboot. At reboot, it starts to scan for the disk, finds the first
one and then can't find the second and aborts. If you let it
boot at that point, even windows disk manager can not find the
disk anymore, but if you then power down and back up, the
disk appears again. A number of people in the support forums
have reported the same (or similar) issue under XP with build
937 of 8.0 -- Acronis response to their problems was to buy
the new 9.0 and there are quite a number of people who are
having significant problems with 9.0. A number of people
reported the clone worked if you used the boot cd - except
that then uncovers another "minor" issue (which I have also
experienced) - under the linux drivers (the boot cd uses linux),
the backup, instead of 15 minutes will take HOURS (or a
restore). I went back to my copy of Drive Image 7 and it had
no problem copying the one drive to the second.

Another thing I found disturbing was I just bought 8.0 so it is
not *that* old (and downloaded the latest version 2 months back).
All the FAQ's etc for that version have vanished off their site.
Only ver 9 docs there.

Winxp Pro, 1 gig RAM, Asus (intel) motherboard).
Drives on the PRI IDE controller.

I have used TI 8.0 to clone well over 100 hard drives. I have never had this
problem. When you finish cloning the drive do not reboot with the source and
the target both connected. Shut down and remove the source before booting up
the computer. Once the computer has booted from the target then you can
reinstall the source and format it. This procedure is necessary with any
disk cloning program and not specific to TI.

Kerry
 
A

Anna

Kerry Brown said:
I have used TI 8.0 to clone well over 100 hard drives. I have never had
this problem. When you finish cloning the drive do not reboot with the
source and the target both connected. Shut down and remove the source
before booting up the computer. Once the computer has booted from the
target then you can reinstall the source and format it. This procedure is
necessary with any disk cloning program and not specific to TI.

Kerry


Mike, Lu, (and others):
Kerry's advice is *absolutely crucial* and should be adhered to by any user
attempting to create a disk-to-disk clone with *any* disk imaging program
such as the Acronis one, Symantec's Norton Ghost, and the like. Both
Symantec and Acronis recommend this course of action and I would guess other
disk imaging program developers do as well.

In many cases, following the disk cloning operation, you *can* boot with
both the source & destination drives still connected and there will be no
problem involving subsequent booting from the newly-cloned drive. But it's
iffy and you shouldn't chance it. In too many instances XP has a problem
booting from the newly-cloned drive if it *previously* was connected as a
secondary drive following the initial cloning operation.

So to emphasize what Kerry said...

Immediately following the disk cloning operation, disconnect the source disk
and make that initial boot with the newly-cloned HD. Following that initial
boot, you can, should you desire, re:connect the cloned drive as a secondary
drive and there should be no further problems booting from the cloned drive
if & when the need later arises.

Incidentally, this problem never seemed to surface with the Win9x/Me OS in
my experience. Seems peculiar to XP.
Anna
 
M

Mike Fields

[ bunch snipped]
Mike, Lu, (and others):
Kerry's advice is *absolutely crucial* and should be adhered to by any user
attempting to create a disk-to-disk clone with *any* disk imaging program
such as the Acronis one, Symantec's Norton Ghost, and the like. Both
Symantec and Acronis recommend this course of action and I would guess other
disk imaging program developers do as well.

In many cases, following the disk cloning operation, you *can* boot with
both the source & destination drives still connected and there will be no
problem involving subsequent booting from the newly-cloned drive. But it's
iffy and you shouldn't chance it. In too many instances XP has a problem
booting from the newly-cloned drive if it *previously* was connected as a
secondary drive following the initial cloning operation.

So to emphasize what Kerry said...

Immediately following the disk cloning operation, disconnect the source disk
and make that initial boot with the newly-cloned HD. Following that initial
boot, you can, should you desire, re:connect the cloned drive as a secondary
drive and there should be no further problems booting from the cloned drive
if & when the need later arises.

Incidentally, this problem never seemed to surface with the Win9x/Me OS in
my experience. Seems peculiar to XP.
Anna

That is NOT the problem -- I am aware of that issue. The issue
is that when you select the configuration you want (per the docs)
then reboot to START the process (as it wants to -- this is BEFORE
the clone operation starts), Acronis reboots, loads it's loader,
finds the first drive then hangs and reports the second drive does
not exist -- it has not even started the copy yet. The drive then
even vanishes from windows diskmanager snapin until you cycle
power then it's shows up again. There were a number of reports
of this issue with build 937 (earlier builds had other issues, but
not that one according to other users). Not all people experience
this issue, but those that did (including me), it was very repeatable.

mikey
 
K

Kerry Brown

Mike Fields said:
[ bunch snipped]
Mike, Lu, (and others):
Kerry's advice is *absolutely crucial* and should be adhered to by any user
attempting to create a disk-to-disk clone with *any* disk imaging program
such as the Acronis one, Symantec's Norton Ghost, and the like. Both
Symantec and Acronis recommend this course of action and I would guess other
disk imaging program developers do as well.

In many cases, following the disk cloning operation, you *can* boot with
both the source & destination drives still connected and there will be no
problem involving subsequent booting from the newly-cloned drive. But
it's
iffy and you shouldn't chance it. In too many instances XP has a problem
booting from the newly-cloned drive if it *previously* was connected as a
secondary drive following the initial cloning operation.

So to emphasize what Kerry said...

Immediately following the disk cloning operation, disconnect the source disk
and make that initial boot with the newly-cloned HD. Following that initial
boot, you can, should you desire, re:connect the cloned drive as a secondary
drive and there should be no further problems booting from the cloned drive
if & when the need later arises.

Incidentally, this problem never seemed to surface with the Win9x/Me OS
in
my experience. Seems peculiar to XP.
Anna

That is NOT the problem -- I am aware of that issue. The issue
is that when you select the configuration you want (per the docs)
then reboot to START the process (as it wants to -- this is BEFORE
the clone operation starts), Acronis reboots, loads it's loader,
finds the first drive then hangs and reports the second drive does
not exist -- it has not even started the copy yet. The drive then
even vanishes from windows diskmanager snapin until you cycle
power then it's shows up again. There were a number of reports
of this issue with build 937 (earlier builds had other issues, but
not that one according to other users). Not all people experience
this issue, but those that did (including me), it was very repeatable.

OK, from reading your post I got the wrong impression. I'm using TI 8.0
build 937 and haven't seen the problem. TI is usually very good at putting
out updates to fix repeatable problems. Hopefully they will have a fix soon.

Kerry
 
A

Anna

(snip)



Kerry Brown said:
OK, from reading your post I got the wrong impression. I'm using TI 8.0
build 937 and haven't seen the problem. TI is usually very good at putting
out updates to fix repeatable problems. Hopefully they will have a fix
soon.

Kerry


Mike:
I fear that I too misunderstood your problem with Acronis True Image. From
your description, I'm still not entirely clear as to the specific steps you
take to clone one HD to another HD and the resulting scenario (problem) that
follows.

I've been using the ATI8 program over that past six months or so and have
found that program both simple to use and effective in its results. I use
that program (as I use any disk imaging program) for one purpose and only
one purpose - to *directly* clone the contents of one HD to another HD. In
doing so...
*I do not use the program to create disk images on removable media, e.g.,
DVDs*
*I do not make "incremental" backups via the cloning process*
Direct disk-to-disk cloning is my sole interest so as to reasonably maintain
a near-failsafe backup system involving my day-to-day working hard drive. I
have no other interest in using a disk imaging program. In so doing, I
prefer to carry out the cloning operation using the bootable CD (a/ka
"Bootable Rescue Media" as Acronis calls it) that one can easily create in
the ATI program. I find the simplicity, straightforwardness, and portability
aspects of using the bootable CD more to my liking than using the Windows
GUI. It's simply a personal preference.

I mention the above because I want you to understand precisely how I use the
program, which may be different from the way you employ it and thus my
comments may have little or no relevance to your present situation and/or
the problem you're experiencing. On the other hand, perhaps a review of the
basic steps one can use in creating direct disk-to-disk clones with the ATI
program may be of use to you in your present predicament and be of some
interest to others who are considering a disk imaging program for routine
and systematic backup purposes.

Here are the basic steps I follow to *directly* clone the contents of one HD
to another HD (internal or external). (It's actually an edited version of
step-by-step instructions I prepared for a local computer club).

START
1. Ensure there are no other storage devices connected to the computer other
than the source and destination drives.

a. If both drives (source & destination) are connected, and the computer
is running, insert the Acronis bootable CD in your CD/DVD drive and restart
your computer. If you’re cloning to a USB/Firewire external HD, that device
can be connected before restarting your computer.



b. If *only* your working drive (the source disk) is connected at the
time the computer is running, insert the Acronis bootable CD in your CD/DVD
device and shutdown your computer. Disconnect the computer’s power cord and
connect the second (destination) drive you’ll be cloning to and boot up with
both drives connected.


2. Upon bootup, the Acronis main screen will display. One of the icons will
be “Disk Clone”. Double-click on this icon.



3. The “Welcome to the Disk Clone Wizard!” screen will display. Click Next.



4. The “Clone Mode” dialog box will display with two options. Select the
“Automatic” option (it probably will be the default) and click Next.



5. The “Source Hard Disk” screen will display with your two drives listed.
Make *absolutely certain* that your source disk (the drive you’ll be cloning
*from*) is highlighted, and thus selected. Click Next.



6. The “Destination Hard Disk” screen will display. Again, make *absolutely
certain* that your destination disk (the drive you’ll be cloning to) is
highlighted (selected). Click Next.



7. Assuming your destination disk is not a “virgin” disk, i.e., it contains
data, the “Nonempty Destination Hard Disk” screen will display. Select the
“Delete partitions on the destination hard disk” option and click Next.



8. The “Hard Disk Drives Structure” screen will display reflecting the
“before and after” cloning operation. Again, make absolutely certain that
your source and destination drives are correctly indicated. Click Next.



9. The final screen before the cloning operation takes place will display
summarizing the impending process. Once again, the important thing to note
is that your source and destination drives are correctly reflected. Click
the Proceed button to begin the cloning operation.



10. Following the cloning operation, remove the bootable CD and shutdown the
computer. DO NOT REBOOT AT THIS TIME!



11. If you’re working with internal hard drives, it’s a good idea to verify
that the cloning operation was successful and that you now have a bootable
clone. So after shutting down the computer, disconnect its power cord, open
your case and disconnect your source disk. Power up and boot with the
destination disk to ensure that it is indeed bootable and that all is well.
Incidentally, I’m assuming in all this that your motherboard will allow you
to boot to the cloned drive regardless of its position/configuration on the
IDE cable. We have come across some motherboards which will not permit a
boot from any position other than Primary Master. If so, you’ll need to make
the necessary reconnects/reconfiguration for your cloned drive in that
situation in order to test that it is bootable. Presuming it is, shutdown,
remove the power cord, and reconnect your source disk (assuming that’s the
drive you plan to continue to use as your day-to-day working drive). It’s
probably best to disconnect the cloned disk after you’ve verified that the
cloning operation was successful. See the note below.



If, on the other hand, you’ve cloned to a USB/Firewire external hard drive,
no further action is necessary. Remember that the USB/Firewire EHD is *not*
bootable. And, of course, the external drive should ordinarily be
disconnected from the computer following the cloning operation.



Some notes about disconnecting a cloned internal drive following the cloning
operation: Both Symantec (Norton Ghost) and Acronis recommend this. Both of
their tech support have stated that with both drives connected there is a
strong possibility of file corruption and/or booting problems. Also
mentioned is the possibility of virus infestation of both drives when both
are connected as well as the possibility of electrical surges
damaging/destroying both drives while both are connected. As a general
proposition, the only time both internal drives will be simultaneously
connected following the cloning operation is when you want to re:clone the
contents of the cloned HD back to your day-to-day working HD for restoration
purposes.



And a final important note reiterating the information in step 10. above.
Following the cloning operation, shut (power) down the computer; disconnect
the source disk; and make the *initial* boot of the cloned drive while it is
the *only* drive connected at that time. If, on that initial boot *both*
drives are connected, there's a distinct possibility that the cloned drive
will not boot at a subsequent time. This is particularly so when you're
working with a WinXP operating system.

END



Are the above steps more-or-less the process you follow? I take it you use
the Windows GUI to perform the cloning process, however, the basic steps
aren't really very different, are they? Anyway, let me have your thoughts on
this.

Anna
 
A

Anna

THIS MAY BE DUPLICATE POSTING. SORRY IF IT IS...

(snip)


Kerry Brown said:
OK, from reading your post I got the wrong impression. I'm using TI 8.0
build 937 and haven't seen the problem. TI is usually very good at putting
out updates to fix repeatable problems. Hopefully they will have a fix
soon.

Kerry


Mike:
I fear that I too misunderstood your problem with Acronis True Image. From
your description, I'm still not entirely clear as to the specific steps you
take to clone one HD to another HD and the resulting scenario (problem) that
follows.

I've been using the ATI8 program over that past six months or so and have
found that program both simple to use and effective in its results. I use
that program (as I use any disk imaging program) for one purpose and only
one purpose - to *directly* clone the contents of one HD to another HD. In
doing so...
*I do not use the program to create disk images on removable media, e.g.,
DVDs*
*I do not make "incremental" backups via the cloning process*
Direct disk-to-disk cloning is my sole interest so as to reasonably maintain
a near-failsafe backup system involving my day-to-day working hard drive. I
have no other interest in using a disk imaging program. In so doing, I
prefer to carry out the cloning operation using the bootable CD (a/ka
"Bootable Rescue Media" as Acronis calls it) that one can easily create in
the ATI program. I find the simplicity, straightforwardness, and portability
aspects of using the bootable CD more to my liking than using the Windows
GUI. It's simply a personal preference.

I mention the above because I want you to understand precisely how I use the
program, which may be different from the way you (and others) employ it and
thus my comments may have little or no relevance to your present situation
and/or the problem you're experiencing. On the other hand, perhaps a review
of the basic steps one can use in creating direct disk-to-disk clones with
the ATI
program may be of use to you in your present predicament and be of some
interest to others who are considering a disk imaging program for routine
and systematic backup purposes.

Here are the basic steps I follow to *directly* clone the contents of one HD
to another HD (internal or external). (It's actually an edited version of
step-by-step instructions I prepared for a local computer club).

START
1. Ensure there are no other storage devices connected to the computer other
than the source and destination drives.

a. If both drives (source & destination) are connected, and the computer
is running, insert the Acronis bootable CD in your CD/DVD drive and restart
your computer. If you’re cloning to a USB/Firewire external HD, that device
can be connected before restarting your computer.

b. If *only* your working drive (the source disk) is connected at the
time the computer is running, insert the Acronis bootable CD in your CD/DVD
device and shutdown your computer. Disconnect the computer’s power cord and
connect the second (destination) drive you’ll be cloning to and boot up with
both drives connected.

2. Upon bootup, the Acronis main screen will display. One of the icons will
be “Disk Clone”. Double-click on this icon.

3. The “Welcome to the Disk Clone Wizard!” screen will display. Click Next.

4. The “Clone Mode” dialog box will display with two options. Select the
“Automatic” option (it probably will be the default) and click Next.

5. The “Source Hard Disk” screen will display with your two drives listed.
Make *absolutely certain* that your source disk (the drive you’ll be cloning
*from*) is highlighted, and thus selected. Click Next.

6. The “Destination Hard Disk” screen will display. Again, make *absolutely
certain* that your destination disk (the drive you’ll be cloning to) is
highlighted (selected). Click Next.

7. Assuming your destination disk is not a “virgin” disk, i.e., it contains
data, the “Nonempty Destination Hard Disk” screen will display. Select the
“Delete partitions on the destination hard disk” option and click Next.

8. The “Hard Disk Drives Structure” screen will display reflecting the
“before and after” cloning operation. Again, make absolutely certain that
your source and destination drives are correctly indicated. Click Next.

9. The final screen before the cloning operation takes place will display
summarizing the impending process. Once again, the important thing to note
is that your source and destination drives are correctly reflected. Click
the Proceed button to begin the cloning operation.

10. Following the cloning operation, remove the bootable CD and shutdown the
computer. DO NOT REBOOT AT THIS TIME!

11. If you’re working with internal hard drives, it’s a good idea to verify
that the cloning operation was successful and that you now have a bootable
clone. So after shutting down the computer, disconnect its power cord, open
your case and disconnect your source disk. Power up and boot with the
destination disk to ensure that it is indeed bootable and that all is well.
Incidentally, I’m assuming in all this that your motherboard will allow you
to boot to the cloned drive regardless of its position/configuration on the
IDE cable. We have come across some motherboards which will not permit a
boot from any position other than Primary Master. If so, you’ll need to make
the necessary reconnects/reconfiguration for your cloned drive in that
situation in order to test that it is bootable. Presuming it is, shutdown,
remove the power cord, and reconnect your source disk (assuming that’s the
drive you plan to continue to use as your day-to-day working drive). It’s
probably best to disconnect the cloned disk after you’ve verified that the
cloning operation was successful. See the note below.

If, on the other hand, you’ve cloned to a USB/Firewire external hard drive,
no further action is necessary. Remember that the USB/Firewire EHD is *not*
bootable. And, of course, the external drive should ordinarily be
disconnected from the computer following the cloning operation.

Some notes about disconnecting a cloned internal drive following the cloning
operation: Both Symantec (Norton Ghost) and Acronis recommend this. Both of
their tech support have stated that with both drives connected there is a
strong possibility of file corruption and/or booting problems. Also
mentioned is the possibility of virus infestation of both drives when both
are connected as well as the possibility of electrical surges
damaging/destroying both drives while both are connected. As a general
proposition, the only time both internal drives will be simultaneously
connected following the cloning operation is when you want to re:clone the
contents of the cloned HD back to your day-to-day working HD for restoration
purposes.

And a final important note reiterating the information in step 10. above.
Following the cloning operation, shut (power) down the computer; disconnect
the source disk; and make the *initial* boot of the cloned drive while it is
the *only* drive connected at that time. If, on that initial boot *both*
drives are connected, there's a distinct possibility that the cloned drive
will not boot at a subsequent time. This is particularly so when you're
working with a WinXP operating system.

END

Are the above steps more-or-less the process you follow? I take it you use
the Windows GUI to perform the cloning process, however, the basic steps
aren't really very different, are they? Anyway, let me have your thoughts on
this.
Anna
 
H

Holt

Thank you very much, Rock. I found your reply very helpful. Following your
recommendations, I made some researches. An article in PC Magazine pleased
me.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1644439,00.asp

By reading the article in PC Magazine, I got the following impression.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Norton Ghost comes with a bootable CD. The CD is equipped with WinPE and
Norton Ghost. The CD can boot a PC and finds the internal and external
drives. The Norton Ghost on the CD then restores files or a disk image from
an external drive to the internal drive. The Norton Ghost on the CD has a
Windows user interface by WinPE instead of a DOS user interface.

However, at Symantec's web site, I could not find any explicit statement
whether Norton Ghost 10 comes with a bootable CD. Can anyone clarify
whether Norton Ghost 10 really comes with a bootable CD?
http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/features.html

Assuming my above impression is correct, let me proceed with the discussion.


For laptop/notebook computers, a backup program with a ready-made bootable
CD is very attractive. I was not aware of Norton Ghost. Thank you again
for your recommendation, Rock.

Desktop/tower computers can boot from a SATA external drive with the help of
SATA internal-to-external conversion plate like the one from StarTech as Tim
and Anna told me before. (My thanks to Anna and Tim for this information.)
However, neither Tim nor Anna knew of anything like that for laptop/notebook
computers. Have you found such an internal-to-external adapter for
laptop/notebook computers since then, Anna?

The above article about Norton Ghost implies that its competitor Acronis
True Image comes with a bootable CD with a Linux interface instead of WinPE.
I wonder if it is a text-based user interface and hence is difficult to use.
Does anyone know about this?

According to other sources, if one wants a Windows user interface for
Acronis True Image on a bootable CD, then series of instructions are
available for a do-it-yourself project to custom-make a bootable CD with
BartPE. One would have to download various tools from various sites. It is
a laborious time-consuming project.
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/support/bartpe/
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
http://www.bootcd.us/Acronis_Power_Utilities.php

A ready-made bootable CD with a backup/restoration program with Windows user
interface will make it much easier. If it is true that Norton Ghost 10
comes with a ready-made bootable CD with WinPE, then I will be more inclined
toward Norton Ghost by possibly spending a little extra money than Acronis
True Image.

A weakness of a ready-made bootable CD may arise when a new device is
released and the ready-made bootable CD is not equipped with the driver for
the new device. If the backup files are stored on the new device, then a PC
booted from the ready-made CD may not find the new device. What do you
think about this point?

By the way, no one has mentioned Retrospect. Can you, folks, post comments
about Retrospect? Retrospect seems to be capable of network backup. I do
not need network backup.

Finally, I bow my thanks to all the people who replied to this thread.


Holt
 
H

Holt

Welcome back, Anna!

I am sorry to hear that you are embarrassed. Let me mention two points to
clear your embarrassment.

First, I want to find out concrete names of popular backup programs this
time.

Second, this time, I am focusing on laptop/notebook computers, as I wrote at
the beginning of this thread:

For desktop/tower computers, I am satisfied with the SATA solution you
taught me.

Please look at my post replying to Rock. A solution by a bootable CD is
discussed there.

Do you not have to take care of any laptop computers? Do you have
absolutely no laptop computers at all?

Thank you again for your previous help, Anna.


Holt
 
A

Anna

Holt said:
Welcome back, Anna!

I am sorry to hear that you are embarrassed. Let me mention two points to
clear your embarrassment. >
First, I want to find out concrete names of popular backup programs this
time.
Second, this time, I am focusing on laptop/notebook computers, as I wrote
at
the beginning of this thread:
I intend to back up one laptop/notebook computer.
For desktop/tower computers, I am satisfied with the SATA solution you
taught me.
Please look at my post replying to Rock. A solution by a bootable CD is
discussed there.
Do you not have to take care of any laptop computers? Do you have
absolutely no laptop computers at all?
Thank you again for your previous help, Anna.
Holt


Holt:
Well, no, I'm really not "embarrassed" relative to this thread! Believe me,
I'm not. So you need not feel any compunction to clear my "embarrassment".
But thank you for your gentlemanly consideration.

Here's your post to this newsgroup which you addressed to Rock I'll make
some comments following it...

"Thank you very much, Rock. I found your reply very helpful. Following
your
recommendations, I made some researches. An article in PC Magazine pleased
me.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1644439,00.asp

By reading the article in PC Magazine, I got the following impression.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Norton Ghost comes with a bootable CD. The CD is equipped with WinPE and
Norton Ghost. The CD can boot a PC and finds the internal and external
drives. The Norton Ghost on the CD then restores files or a disk image from
an external drive to the internal drive. The Norton Ghost on the CD has a
Windows user interface by WinPE instead of a DOS user interface.

However, at Symantec's web site, I could not find any explicit statement
whether Norton Ghost 10 comes with a bootable CD. Can anyone clarify
whether Norton Ghost 10 really comes with a bootable CD?
http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/ghost_personal/features.html

Assuming my above impression is correct, let me proceed with the discussion.

For laptop/notebook computers, a backup program with a ready-made bootable
CD is very attractive. I was not aware of Norton Ghost. Thank you again
for your recommendation, Rock.

Desktop/tower computers can boot from a SATA external drive with the help of
SATA internal-to-external conversion plate like the one from StarTech as Tim
and Anna told me before. (My thanks to Anna and Tim for this information.)
However, neither Tim nor Anna knew of anything like that for laptop/notebook
computers. Have you found such an internal-to-external adapter for
laptop/notebook computers since then, Anna?

The above article about Norton Ghost implies that its competitor Acronis
True Image comes with a bootable CD with a Linux interface instead of WinPE.
I wonder if it is a text-based user interface and hence is difficult to
use.
Does anyone know about this?

According to other sources, if one wants a Windows user interface for
Acronis True Image on a bootable CD, then series of instructions are
available for a do-it-yourself project to custom-make a bootable CD with
BartPE. One would have to download various tools from various sites. It is
a laborious time-consuming project.
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/support/bartpe/
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
http://www.bootcd.us/Acronis_Power_Utilities.php

A ready-made bootable CD with a backup/restoration program with Windows user
interface will make it much easier. If it is true that Norton Ghost 10
comes with a ready-made bootable CD with WinPE, then I will be more inclined
toward Norton Ghost by possibly spending a little extra money than Acronis
True Image.

A weakness of a ready-made bootable CD may arise when a new device is
released and the ready-made bootable CD is not equipped with the driver for
the new device. If the backup files are stored on the new device, then a PC
booted from the ready-made CD may not find the new device. What do you
think about this point?

By the way, no one has mentioned Retrospect. Can you, folks, post comments
about Retrospect? Retrospect seems to be capable of network backup. I do
not need network backup.

Finally, I bow my thanks to all the people who replied to this thread.
Holt"
END OF HOLT'S POSTING

Holt:
When all is said and done, your basic objective is to create and maintain a
backup system for your laptop/notebook so that in the event your day-to-day
working drive becomes corrupted and dysfunctional you will be able to
restore that drive to a functional state again. To that end you are
considering a disk imaging program which you can employ to "clone" the
contents of your working drive to a USB or Firewire external HD. I trust I
have accurately stated your basic objective.

I most certainly agree with you that this "is the way to go" (please pardon
this Americanism) in your circumstances. By using a disk imaging program
such as Symantec's Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image you can create (for
all practical purposes) a bit-for-bit copy of your source disk, including
the operating system, and all programs and data - in effect a "clone" of
your working drive. If & when the time comes for that working drive to be
restored, it's a relatively simple process to clone back to that drive the
contents of the external drive. As you know from previous discussions, the
USBEHD is not bootable.

In my own case I use either the Norton Ghost 2003 program or the Acronis
True Image 8 program. Both of these programs are easy to use and work just
fine in an XP environment. (I'm not particularly fond of the Ghost 9 program
and I haven't worked with its version 10 or the new ATI 9 program).

With Norton Ghost 2003 you can use a Ghost bootable floppy (easily created
in the Ghost program) or a Ghost bootable CD (you first need to create the
bootable floppy before you can create the bootable CD). Using that media the
cloning process is simple, straightforward, and effective.

With the ATI program you can easily create a bootable ATI CD within the
Acronis program and use that media to perform the cloning process. It's just
as easy & effective as the Ghost program.

Let me emphasize that both of the programs I've mentioned work just fine in
an XP environment. I've cloned HUNDREDS of hard drives with the Ghost 2003
program with no problem and while I haven't worked with the ATI program
nearly as long, my experience with that program has been just as positive.

Why don't you try out one or both of those programs? They're certainly not
very expensive. The Ghost 2003 program can be had for as little as $4.99
(US) - see
http://www.tekdealers.com/?pg=product_details&ref=956846551&productID=89
and I've seen the Acronis program selling online for about $30 - probably
less now that the ATI 9 version has been released.

There's also the CasperXP program that a number of posters have found to be
very effective. I believe they have a trial version available. Give it a
try.

Re your comment & query re a possible problem with a disk imaging program's
bootable CD because the "ready-made bootable CD is not equipped with the
driver for the new device" (you're apparently referring to a USB or Firewire
external hard drive): There is *no* problem here. There's no "driver"
connection between the bootable CD and the device containing the destination
HD, i.e, the recipient of the clone.

I've no experience with the Retrospect program.
Anna
 

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