Anti-Piracy issues

[tiger]

I've posted quite a bit over the past week due to being
the victim of what I believe to be software piracy. I've
gotten some great suggestions and support so I have some
more issues to discuss for those who are interested:

My husband & I have been discussing the piracy issue and
what happened with our computer guy today. It's late and
I am pretty wiped, but after thinking about it and
discussing it with several other people, I resent the
position that this computer guy has put me in. First off,
I now have to spend a lot of time and energy pursuing this
matter over the next couple of days with Microsoft (with a
1 year old baby, I just don't have the time). Secondly, I
really resent the expectations that Microsoft has of me as
a consumer of their products. Please let me explain:

If they had done a better job of securing their software
(such as embedding the COA right into the CD/software),
then it wouldn't be so easy for my computer guy to copy
software. Not only that, now that it's happened, they
expect me, a very busy young mother/career woman, to
gather information and report this guy to them. I know
that piracy dictates that we as consumers need to be
responsible in reporting, but after reviewing everything I
kind of feel as if we as customers are doing Microsoft's
job for them. I've read every inch of their anti-piracy
site, and it totally puts the onus on us as customers to
curb the problem, but at this point in my life, my child
is my priority. Also, as an English teacher, their site is
lacking in specifics and details. Nowhere on the site does
it specifically say that all versions must come with
hologram CD. It alludes to this in several sections, but I
had to call the piracy hotline to get this information.

In regards to reporting this guy, to be honest, my husband
and I are nervous to report him because he's going to
surely figure out that it was us since I've called him 2x
this week, and visited him today in his shop to discuss
the matter. What if he threatens us? We are feeling a lot
of anxiety about the whole thing because we are very
honest and moral people, but in the grand scheme of
things, there are much more important things that I need
to devote my time and energy towards. Sure this guy is
illegally burning CDs, but why is it my total
responsibility to report him? What about everybody else
who does business with him?

I'm sure that I'm going to get some very interesting
replies to my post. My intention is not to anger anyone,
but I honestly feel that I have some legitimate concerns
about this whole matter and it's really my huband and I
feeling as if we can't trust anyone anymore - especially
in the computer industry!

Tiger

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Tiger;
Something is illegal somewhere with this guy.
The fact he sells certificates with an inappropriate CD is the proof.
However your COA with Product Key seems to work and will most likely
continue to work.

At this point I would like to say research the information and burn
that guy.
That is easy to say since it has been a while since I had a one year
old around and obviously I could never be a mother.

Do as much or as little as you feel comfortable.
But at least find someone reliable for the future and give appropriate
recommendations to family and friends.

 

[PA Bear]

I feel your pain and chagrin yet...

From whom or where did you buy whatever CD it is to which you refer? How
much did you pay for it? Was it significantly cheaper than, say,
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005MOTE/ or
http://www.staples.com/products/centers/amazing_pc/default.asp, and did you
happen to wonder why?

Have you reported this guy or business to Microsoft? ...to your local and
state police?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
(Edmund Burke)

/Caveat/ /emptor/.

 

[Guest]

find a hacker site and post all the net info on this guy
,that you can.

 

[CS]

I've posted quite a bit over the past week due to being
the victim of what I believe to be software piracy. I've
gotten some great suggestions and support so I have some
more issues to discuss for those who are interested:

My husband & I have been discussing the piracy issue and
what happened with our computer guy today. It's late and
I am pretty wiped, but after thinking about it and
discussing it with several other people, I resent the
position that this computer guy has put me in. First off,
I now have to spend a lot of time and energy pursuing this
matter over the next couple of days with Microsoft (with a
1 year old baby, I just don't have the time). Secondly, I
really resent the expectations that Microsoft has of me as
a consumer of their products. Please let me explain:

If they had done a better job of securing their software
(such as embedding the COA right into the CD/software),
then it wouldn't be so easy for my computer guy to copy
software. Not only that, now that it's happened, they
expect me, a very busy young mother/career woman, to
gather information and report this guy to them. I know
that piracy dictates that we as consumers need to be
responsible in reporting, but after reviewing everything I
kind of feel as if we as customers are doing Microsoft's
job for them. I've read every inch of their anti-piracy
site, and it totally puts the onus on us as customers to
curb the problem, but at this point in my life, my child
is my priority. Also, as an English teacher, their site is
lacking in specifics and details. Nowhere on the site does
it specifically say that all versions must come with
hologram CD. It alludes to this in several sections, but I
had to call the piracy hotline to get this information.

In regards to reporting this guy, to be honest, my husband
and I are nervous to report him because he's going to
surely figure out that it was us since I've called him 2x
this week, and visited him today in his shop to discuss
the matter. What if he threatens us? We are feeling a lot
of anxiety about the whole thing because we are very
honest and moral people, but in the grand scheme of
things, there are much more important things that I need
to devote my time and energy towards. Sure this guy is
illegally burning CDs, but why is it my total
responsibility to report him? What about everybody else
who does business with him?

I'm sure that I'm going to get some very interesting
replies to my post. My intention is not to anger anyone,
but I honestly feel that I have some legitimate concerns
about this whole matter and it's really my huband and I
feeling as if we can't trust anyone anymore - especially
in the computer industry!

Tiger

Hi Tiger:

As a busy Mom, wife, and career teacher, you've got better things to
do than play cop for Microsoft. Microsoft has enough resources and
certainly enough lawyers to handle piracy reporting and
investigations. Let them do their job.

If the computer store owner is indeed doing something illegal, he'll
eventually get caught. Just let well enough alone and take care of
the important things in your life - like that one year old.

Regards.

 

[GHalleck]

tiger wrote:

I'm sure that I'm going to get some very interesting
replies to my post. My intention is not to anger anyone,
but I honestly feel that I have some legitimate concerns
about this whole matter and it's really my huband and I
feeling as if we can't trust anyone anymore - especially
in the computer industry!

Tiger

Looks like there has already been a lot written about this
set of circumstances. Essentially, you had bought a retail
version of Windows XP cdrom and you should have received the
cdrom along with the COA, a brief installation guide, perhaps
a registration card and the box they all came in, regardless
of the fact that a "generic" version was installed into the
computer. And it does not matter whether this tech is an OEM
dealer for a major brand --- Dell, was it not? The same rules
hold since you did not buy an OEM system. He could only have
been legally sold you a retail version of Windows XP and you
are entitled to its full contents. Get the guy. I am curious
just what he had given you, e.g., a copy of the corporate
Windows XP cdrom and a single user's license for same? Just
how many ways is he committing a felony? Hmmm.

 

[RobertVA]

Is this discussion about a RETAIL version of Windows XP or an OEM version?

Microsoft does liscense computer manufacturers to sell machines without
instalation CDs pressed by Microsoft. Under those circustances the dealer
must transfer a Certificate Of Authenticity to EACH customer, usually in the
form of a holgraphic sticker on the computer case. The dealer puchases the
holographic stickers from Microsoft, thus the wholesale purchase of the
stickers should correspond to the number of computers sold with Windows XP
(OEM). Some of the major manufacturers are well known for selling computers
with the Installation/Recovery software in a hidden hard drive partition. I
seriously doubt those major manufacturers would violate Microsoft's
licenseing terms. The local dealers that assemble custom computers probably
have access to the same licensing program, but don't have enough computers
with matching hardware to customize/lock the installation to a particular
hardware configuration. To a certain extent product activation locks the key
on the COA to an individual configuration for four months anyway.

 

[Michael Stevens]

I've posted quite a bit over the past week due to being
the victim of what I believe to be software piracy. I've
gotten some great suggestions and support so I have some
more issues to discuss for those who are interested:

My husband & I have been discussing the piracy issue and
what happened with our computer guy today. It's late and
I am pretty wiped, but after thinking about it and
discussing it with several other people, I resent the
position that this computer guy has put me in. First off,
I now have to spend a lot of time and energy pursuing this
matter over the next couple of days with Microsoft (with a
1 year old baby, I just don't have the time). Secondly, I
really resent the expectations that Microsoft has of me as
a consumer of their products. Please let me explain:

If they had done a better job of securing their software
(such as embedding the COA right into the CD/software),
then it wouldn't be so easy for my computer guy to copy
software. Not only that, now that it's happened, they
expect me, a very busy young mother/career woman, to
gather information and report this guy to them. I know
that piracy dictates that we as consumers need to be
responsible in reporting, but after reviewing everything I
kind of feel as if we as customers are doing Microsoft's
job for them. I've read every inch of their anti-piracy
site, and it totally puts the onus on us as customers to
curb the problem, but at this point in my life, my child
is my priority. Also, as an English teacher, their site is
lacking in specifics and details. Nowhere on the site does
it specifically say that all versions must come with
hologram CD. It alludes to this in several sections, but I
had to call the piracy hotline to get this information.

In regards to reporting this guy, to be honest, my husband
and I are nervous to report him because he's going to
surely figure out that it was us since I've called him 2x
this week, and visited him today in his shop to discuss
the matter. What if he threatens us? We are feeling a lot
of anxiety about the whole thing because we are very
honest and moral people, but in the grand scheme of
things, there are much more important things that I need
to devote my time and energy towards. Sure this guy is
illegally burning CDs, but why is it my total
responsibility to report him? What about everybody else
who does business with him?

I'm sure that I'm going to get some very interesting
replies to my post. My intention is not to anger anyone,
but I honestly feel that I have some legitimate concerns
about this whole matter and it's really my huband and I
feeling as if we can't trust anyone anymore - especially
in the computer industry!

Tiger

Your system builder could be right, as I just setup a Compaq notebook for a
friend and it came with a non-hologram XP CD. This would be essentially the
same as the CD your computer guy supplied to you. System builders are sold
license keys without the CD media so they can either include a recovery CD,
recovery files on the hard drive, XP CD plus application restore media or a
combination of previous options. The only thing the OEM(system builder) is
required to supply is a way to restore the system to it's original shipped
state.

--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Michael Stevens]

Your system builder could be right, as I just setup a Compaq notebook
for a friend and it came with a non-hologram XP CD. This would be
essentially the same as the CD your computer guy supplied to you.
System builders are sold license keys without the CD media so they
can either include a recovery CD, recovery files on the hard drive,
XP CD plus application restore media or a combination of previous
options. The only thing the OEM(system builder) is required to supply
is a way to restore the system to it's original shipped state.

To add to what the OEM is required would be the COA sticker affixed to the
computer case.

Your contention that MS is negligent by not embedding the Product Key on
each CD is not really a good idea or solution to anyone's problem. It would
increase the expense of production, make replacement of broken and/or
defective media more difficult. Increase the costs to consumers of OEM
systems due to increased inventory and accounting costs and make it more
difficult to use work around methods to repair and recover crashed systems.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[RobertVA]

Visit the www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell site. Type the link yourself
from the Certificate of Authenticity(COA). Use Internet Explorer. there are
tools there that will determine if your product ID is valid and if you shuld
have received a Microsoft hologram CD with your new computer. That site also
indicates how to determine if your COA is genuine. This official Microsoft
page indicates that some manufacturers are allowed to distribute the
software on CDs that they burn or have pressed OR on the computers hard
drive.

Does your COA have "OEM Product" printed on the line below the product name
(Windows XP Home Edition or Windows XP Professional Edition)? Does the COA
have the letter D near the right edge? If it doesn't have either of these
features your manufacturer may be entitled to manufacture any
installation/recovery CD that comes with the system instead of a hologram CD
pressed by Microsoft.

 

[Al]

Your system builder could be right, as I just setup a Compaq notebook for a
friend and it came with a non-hologram XP CD. This would be essentially the
same as the CD your computer guy supplied to you. System builders are sold
license keys without the CD media so they can either include a recovery CD,
recovery files on the hard drive, XP CD plus application restore media or a
combination of previous options. The only thing the OEM(system builder) is
required to supply is a way to restore the system to it's original shipped
state.

Um, Carey Frisch says those CDs have to have the MS hologram on them, as they are not legal, and Jupiter Jones backs this up! I have stated emphatically this is not true, all that is needed is the COAs for system built.

Now, without trying to sound like a dick, are you going to not disagree with them because they are MVPs as you are. Jupiter wouldn't when I called him for that, and asked whether being right was right, or being an MVP meant never getting it right because peers don't correct peers? Of course he evaded that question.

 

[Michael Stevens]

Um, Carey Frisch says those CDs have to have the MS hologram on them,
as they are not legal, and Jupiter Jones backs this up! I have stated
emphatically this is not true, all that is needed is the COAs for
system built.

Now, without trying to sound like a dick, are you going to not
disagree with them because they are MVPs as you are. Jupiter wouldn't
when I called him for that, and asked whether being right was right,
or being an MVP meant never getting it right because peers don't
correct peers? Of course he evaded that question.

Didn't really follow the entire threads, but I am pretty sure my information
is correct.
Carey responds to an enormous volume of posts and I doubt he could do so
without the occasional mistake and he does have the right to express his
opinion. I believe the ratio of Carey's help vs. harm is way on the side of
help. He certainly has a more positive effect in the newsgroups than the
crude critics wanting to ban him for expressing his right to his opinion.
Some of these critics also complain when their opinions are also unfairly
judged.
Jupiter from the posts I did read did not back up a "legal" or otherwise
opinion.
I will stand by my understanding that a non-hologram OEM{system builder} CD
can be perfectly in compliance with all of Microsoft's requirements, and can
be used as qualifying media for a XP upgrade.
--

Michael Stevens MS-MVP XP
(e-mail address removed)
http://michaelstevenstech.com
For a better newsgroup experience. Setup a newsreader.
http://michaelstevenstech.com/outlookexpressnewreader.htm

 

[Al]

Didn't really follow the entire threads, but I am pretty sure my information
is correct.

Your info is correct, the MS OEM site states so.

Carey responds to an enormous volume of posts and I doubt he could do so
without the occasional mistake and he does have the right to express his
opinion. I believe the ratio of Carey's help vs. harm is way on the side of
help. He certainly has a more positive effect in the newsgroups than the
crude critics wanting to ban him for expressing his right to his opinion.
Some of these critics also complain when their opinions are also unfairly
judged.

I disagree completely, he does help, but by none of his own thinking; he is more a "help by giving links" master, than by his own worded explanation to problem solving. he isn't harmful, I agree, but he never admit fault of his own, or that of MS (sycophantic so to speak). is opinion are not thought out from making comparison to other products, because he refuses to use anything else, and rip others as "using inferior product" if they are that from MS. He rips anything Linux, though he has no knowledge, or any idea how it works!

In any case, he posted without thinking in this thread, and gave wrong info, as if what the OEM builder did was piracy. he didn't read, nor respond to those that challenged him to that effect, and he hasn't responded. Carey should read more about OEM at the MS sites before making blanket, accusatory reactive posts being that of piracy. He also tell others to make purchases that are unnecessary, or to expensive, instead of other means; i.e. one needs to, purchase the Full Version, when they clearly could use an upgrade. Sometimes I think he either has big investments there, or he is looking out more for MS and their profits, than that of helping the consumer.

Jupiter from the posts I did read did not back up a "legal" or otherwise
opinion.

Jupiter, just plain didn't understand what I said, and then went on to say that "context" is the way to think, when Carey expressed no such context. He cannot be defended either in this case.

I will stand by my understanding that a non-hologram OEM{system builder} CD
can be perfectly in compliance with all of Microsoft's requirements, and can
be used as qualifying media for a XP upgrade.

I will with you also, as you are right, but London to a brick, Carey will not admit it, and he won't have you tell him otherwise! It would be tooooo sacrilegious for him to venture into being wrong, or unsupportive of MS.

 

[tiger]

This is the information that I have been trying to find
out for days! He told me he does fall under the sytem
builder definition, but when I called Microsoft they of
course said that pretty much only the big companies such
as Dell, Compaq, etc... have the right to provide non-
hologram CDs with their systems and it sounds like I "may"
have been a victim of some type of piracy. My system was
custom built by him (AMD Barton chip, Asus mb, WD Caviar
hdd, LG DVD-, ieee firewire card, RW, Logitech cordless
mouse/keyboard) and that is why he was able to provide us
with the OEM version.

As an English teacher with a great deal of research and
technical writing experience, I have analyzed Microsoft's
website to death, and I feel that it is lacking
information, and is inconsistent and hypocritical in
places. I tried to get on the system builder website, but
of course, I don't qualify to do so. As someone who does
knowledge for a living, I find their site to not be the
best transmission of the facts surrounding their specific
media types (OEM, system builder, retail, etc...)and it
leaves one feeling confused about just what type of media
one should have received from a system builder with an OEM
licence.

The piracy rep who I spoke with said that they never sell
COAs separately, and all CDs must be hologram, but you, as
well as my computer guy and several other system builders
on this board have said otherwise, whom do I believe? He
could have misunderstood my questions, or plainly told me
the wrong information. That is why my husband and I are
very confused about the whole ordeal. If Microsoft's
website definitively said that ALL Windows XP software
must include the following: COA, hologram CD and manual,
then the case is closed. But alas, it does not say that.
It uses words like, "may" and "you might have a problem if
your CD doesn't match." As I stated in my other posts,
which some of you may or may not have read, my COA is
authentic (it passed the online scan test, as well as
counterfeit markings comparison online). The burned CD,
plus authentic COA cost $170.00 CDN, OEM XP Pro. The full
version costs about $450.00 and the upgrade about $280.00,
so it wasn't signigicantly cheaper. He also sells the
original hologram CD (OEM) with COA and manual for
$270.00. When I called around to a few other computer
places, the prices were on track.

I really do appreciate all of the responses that I have
received from this board - it is truly a wealth of
information! I welcome all suggestions, and would love
more information from those of you who are system builders
as to the specifics of what you must provide to your
customers, and what you may not provide in regards to OEM
products.

Have a great day, Tiger

 

[tiger]

Forgot to mention that my COA does not say, "OEM product,"
nor have a D on it. Does this information help in making
a determination at all?

Tiger

-----Original Message-----

"Michael Stevens" <[email protected]> wrote in

message news:[email protected]...

Your info is correct, the MS OEM site states so.


I disagree completely, he does help, but by none of his

own thinking; he is more a "help by giving links" master,
than by his own worded explanation to problem solving. he
isn't harmful, I agree, but he never admit fault of his
own, or that of MS (sycophantic so to speak). is opinion
are not thought out from making comparison to other
products, because he refuses to use anything else, and rip
others as "using inferior product" if they are that from
MS. He rips anything Linux, though he has no knowledge, or
any idea how it works!

In any case, he posted without thinking in this thread,

and gave wrong info, as if what the OEM builder did was
piracy. he didn't read, nor respond to those that
challenged him to that effect, and he hasn't responded.
Carey should read more about OEM at the MS sites before
making blanket, accusatory reactive posts being that of
piracy. He also tell others to make purchases that are
unnecessary, or to expensive, instead of other means; i.e.
one needs to, purchase the Full Version, when they clearly
could use an upgrade. Sometimes I think he either has big
investments there, or he is looking out more for MS and
their profits, than that of helping the consumer.

Jupiter, just plain didn't understand what I said, and

then went on to say that "context" is the way to think,
when Carey expressed no such context. He cannot be
defended either in this case.

I will with you also, as you are right, but London to a

brick, Carey will not admit it, and he won't have you tell
him otherwise! It would be tooooo sacrilegious for him to
venture into being wrong, or unsupportive of MS.

 

[Airman Thunderbird]

Many websites sell OEM copies of the OS with hardware purchases, which
is how they justify selling them. Seems any system builder could do the
same with a homemade "restore" disk. Why he might not also give you the
OEM disk, I'd take up with him.

 

[Bruce Chambers]

Greetings --

If they had done a better job of securing their software
(such as embedding the COA right into the CD/software),
then it wouldn't be so easy for my computer guy to copy
software.

But don't you think that would be rather like parking your car in
a strange neighborhood, locking it, but then leaving the keys dangling
in the lock? It certainly would make pirating the software a lot
simpler.

I do sympathize with your position. Ultimately, you're going to
have to decide for yourself whether setting this situation right is
worth the time and effort involved. I'd certainly prefer it if
Microsoft were to become more pro-active in pursuing small-scale
piracy, rather than relying upon honest customers to always have the
time, the where-withal, and the will to do the right thing.
Unfortunately, I suspect Microsoft, not unjustifiably, fears a public
relations backlash if it were to "go after the little guy." Your
"computer guy" is betting his livelihood on this: he's fully expecting
you to give up the fight. I've no doubt he's been through this
before, and has always simply out-waited previous complainants.

Since you mentioned a child, there's one other thing I'd ask you
to think about: What kind of an example would you like to be setting
for your child? Someone who always does the right thing, even when
it's personally expensive and troublesome? Or someone who surrenders
to the "bad guys" because it's just too much trouble to stand up for
his/her rights? As Edmund Burke said, many years ago, "All that is
required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

How could this "computer guy" threaten you for filing a complaint?
And, if he were so foolish as to do so, wouldn't this put the matter
into an arena where you can involve the local police?


Bruce Chambers
--
Help us help you:



You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on
having both at once. - RAH

 

[tiger]

Thanks for your opinion. The problem is that I still don't
know unequivocally if he is doing the wrong thing or not.
Based on the info the piracy rep gave to me, NO ONE is
able to burn CDs - but that is not true since the big
computer dealers like Dell, HP do just this. Obviously the
rep forgot, or did give me the wrong info.

You bring up very good points, as someone with very high
morals and values, I totally agree with you in regards to
setting an example for my daughter. But, I also need to
protect her and I don't want to have to worry about
police, etc...for something such as this - even though
it's very important. As a first-time parent, I think I
have every reason to be concerned for the safety of my
baby, and that is why I am grappling with the whole thing.

After further discussion with my huband we have come to
the determination that it seems as if Microsoft has given
system builders a lot of freedom in regards to OEM
versions, and this is where the problem lies. I still
can't even make a final determination based on Microsoft's
anti-piracy website and I've spent 3 days on this
website. There is definitely a gray area in regards to
OEM versions if you read the descriptions on their
website - they need to specifically state what is allowed
and what isn't, plain and simple and they just don't do
that. I have reams of stuff printed from their website
(with permission from them) and it's all been highlighted
and analyzed, and there are tons of inconsistencies and
missing info. I analyzed the info just as I do when
marking my students' senior English papers, and believe
me, Microsoft has a long way to go in regards to making
their info more understandable and consistent for
customers. That, I suspect, is why they have presented the
info in this matter - most people if confused are probably
going to believe Microsoft and not the other way around.
That is why it shouldn't be up to the honest, hardworking
customer to make a determination based on Microsoft's
confusing website descriptions.

This is where I'm at now - I have spent an inordinate
amount of time the past week trying to make this
determination, and it's time I can better spend with my
daughter and my husband. Don't get us wrong, we feel this
is an important issue, but if Microsoft did a better job
of providing the absolute, bottom line answers on their
website, we wouldn't even be having this discussion at
all, as I would know exactly what my system builder can
and cannot do.

Thanks for replies, Tiger

 

[JAX]

Hi Michael,

In support of what you say about the Compaq not having a holographic image
on the disk; I have recently worked on a W95 Compac and a 2K machine,
neither disks had holograms. However, they were professionally pressed CD's.
That is to say, they had silk-screened logos,etc.rather than being burned,
while you wait, on whatever blank was at hand.

This is has been one of the main reasons for suspicion on the part of
several of those who have replied to Tigers posts. Not to argue the point,
because I don't know for sure, but I was under the impression that MS placed
very strict demands on both the contents and appearance of disks that are
provided by OEM's as restore disks. Also, what he is providing is not a
customized disk as with Dell, Compaq, etc,.but just a home-made copy of the
generic MS OEM disk. Why would he not just provide an original MS OEM disk?

So far as the validity of the COA goes, as another poster pointed out, that
is easy enough to check via the web. I can't point to exactly what would be
wrong, but I would have to be leery of dealing with that guy.

FWIW, JAX

 

[Gene K]

Thanks for your opinion. The problem is that I still don't
know unequivocally if he is doing the wrong thing or not.
Based on the info the piracy rep gave to me, NO ONE is
able to burn CDs - but that is not true since the big
computer dealers like Dell, HP do just this. Obviously the
rep forgot, or did give me the wrong info.

You bring up very good points, as someone with very high
morals and values, I totally agree with you in regards to
setting an example for my daughter. But, I also need to
protect her and I don't want to have to worry about
police, etc...for something such as this - even though
it's very important. As a first-time parent, I think I
have every reason to be concerned for the safety of my
baby, and that is why I am grappling with the whole thing.

After further discussion with my huband we have come to
the determination that it seems as if Microsoft has given
system builders a lot of freedom in regards to OEM
versions, and this is where the problem lies. I still
can't even make a final determination based on Microsoft's
anti-piracy website and I've spent 3 days on this
website. There is definitely a gray area in regards to
OEM versions if you read the descriptions on their
website - they need to specifically state what is allowed
and what isn't, plain and simple and they just don't do
that. I have reams of stuff printed from their website
(with permission from them) and it's all been highlighted
and analyzed, and there are tons of inconsistencies and
missing info. I analyzed the info just as I do when
marking my students' senior English papers, and believe
me, Microsoft has a long way to go in regards to making
their info more understandable and consistent for
customers. That, I suspect, is why they have presented the
info in this matter - most people if confused are probably
going to believe Microsoft and not the other way around.
That is why it shouldn't be up to the honest, hardworking
customer to make a determination based on Microsoft's
confusing website descriptions.

This is where I'm at now - I have spent an inordinate
amount of time the past week trying to make this
determination, and it's time I can better spend with my
daughter and my husband. Don't get us wrong, we feel this
is an important issue, but if Microsoft did a better job
of providing the absolute, bottom line answers on their
website, we wouldn't even be having this discussion at
all, as I would know exactly what my system builder can
and cannot do.

Thanks for replies, Tiger

If you are not absolutely sure [valid proof] that you have been given a
pirated copy of XP, then be safe and do not accuse anyone in public of such
since you and your husband could be sued for slander. I share everyone's
dislike of pirates [thieves] but you have to prove that contention.
Did you register the operating system when you first setup the system for
use? If so, Microsoft has your info and would prevent use of the same
product key by anyone else not having valid license. If you are using
Windows Update at least once a week, as you should, and you are not blocked
from receiving updates; then Microsofts's update server thinks you have a
legitimate licensed copy of XP. They have your IP address plus your OS and
computer information.
The points:
a. You are correct in your first posting. Your baby, family, and career
always come first!
b. Again, you are indirectly accuseing a businessman of fraud. DO NOT let
pseudo lawyers, such as me and the rest of the responders get you into a
deep crevasse. c.Advice is fine but it is your choice as to what to follow.
d. Several of your responders are intelligent people. They have helped me in
the past. Not a one that I am aware of is a Microsoft employee so what they
say in this thread is essentially an opinion and does not commit Microsoft
Corp to anything. Not a one is probably 100% knowlegeable of ALL Microsoft
OEM agreements and policies.
e. All the above in context, do not in the future deal with any person or
business you have serious doubts about. That is just plain logical common
sense.
Remember, the baby has only you, your husband, and hopefully grandparents to
look after needs.
Gene K