ANN: VS2005 SP1

  • Thread starter Thomas Scheidegger [MVP]
  • Start date
T

Tim Patrick

I use a product called ViEmu with Visual Studio that gives me a vi/vim interface
to the Code Editor. It's pretty close to regular vim, and (for me) a lot
faster than moving my hands to the arrow keys all the time.
 
B

Bruce W. Darby

It's all a matter of perspective, dear boy... ;)

I spent 16 years in the military and even I was a GI. LOL
 
O

Oliver Sturm

Hello Frans,
As an ex-VI-user I can't understand why people even want to use Emacs'
typing style in modern editors. :)
Click to expand...

I created a plugin on top of DXCore that reproduces some of Emacs's
Electric Editing functionality... just because I liked it, and to this day
there's no proper equivalent functionality in typical Windows
applications. Many of the editing modes for Emacs were simply superb...

http://www.sturmnet.org/blog/cr-electric-editing/


Oliver Sturm
 
J

John Aldridge

V

V

Same here. Once I get to the typing, it's simply a matter of cranking
out a lot of code, and I want to avoid re-doing pieces of code as that
signals that I wasted time earlier on (because I have to remove work I
wrote before) and IMHO that suggests I didn't think it through enough.

FB
Click to expand...

With respect, I'm still not sure what bearing that has on the editor.
If you generate 1MB of code without having to hunt for cursor position
keys, then you're the best programmer I know <g>. I not only need the
delete and backspace keys (about 40% of my keystrokes, I confess), but
I work a lot on Unix systems where I've developed reflexes for Emacs
key mapping. Great most of the time, as it's available everywhere
else. It works against me in newer VS. (Older VS versions had Epsilon
mapping that was done pretty well!)

I also have to maintain other peoples' code, where I do have to remove
and re-edit large blocks of code (Never happens with my own code<g>).
And I end up writing a lot of boilerplate stuff that is primarily
boring typing (You guys got all the interesting work).

I know lots of people who use Emacs, but I guess there's a reason why
most go to third party editors for Visual Studio. But...I guess I
asked the question. Got the answer.
 
V

V

I use a product called ViEmu with Visual Studio that gives me a vi/vim interface
to the Code Editor. It's pretty close to regular vim, and (for me) a lot
faster than moving my hands to the arrow keys all the time.
Click to expand...

There you go, I guess I need to learn VI <g>. I have to type on a lot
of different systems, often laptops. It's a distraction to lift from
the normal keys to begin with, but the cursor keys are always in
different places.
 
V

V

Oh I didn't know VS came with EMACs. I thought you were using an extermal
editor.

I liked EMACs when I worked with UNIX during my undergrad. It was
definately much nicer to use than VI.
Click to expand...

Yes, there's Emacs emulation lurking under 'keyboard' in the config
menu. In pre .NET editors there was 'Epsilon' emulation. Epsilon is a
fine editor modelled on Emacs keybindings--one of the first where you
could write your own key functions in a C-like syntax. (Emacs used
Lisp).

Epsilon disappeared from early VS.NET. Replaced by 'Emacs' in VS2005,
but with lots of bugs. Many rudimentary. Many sporadic--makes you
wonder. They often corrupt the clipboard (aren't you supposed to leave
that alone?) Looks like they were not able to fix them. I guess it's
not that easy to write code after all? <g>
 
F

Frans Bouma [C# MVP]

V said:
at >> > the right side, sometimes at the bottom,.etc. How do you
avoid the >> > distraction of having to hunt for keys?
maybe >> 2% of my time editing. Moreover, every time I do editing
it's a signal >> that I need to spend more time thinking. So (1)
having nonconventional >> keystrokes for a rare task is actually
worse, and (2) thinking is the >> bottleneck, not keystrokes.

With respect, I'm still not sure what bearing that has on the editor.
If you generate 1MB of code without having to hunt for cursor position
keys, then you're the best programmer I know <g>. I not only need the
delete and backspace keys (about 40% of my keystrokes, I confess), but
I work a lot on Unix systems where I've developed reflexes for Emacs
key mapping. Great most of the time, as it's available everywhere
else. It works against me in newer VS. (Older VS versions had Epsilon
mapping that was done pretty well!)
Click to expand...

Well, back in the days when I was writing C using WYSE terminals on
SUN unix boxes, I really tried, but Emacs never appealed to me, and
with vi, it was 'ok', but it never was as productive as the assemblers
I had on the amiga for example, I guess, I don't mind if I have to move
to the backspace (which I can reach without moving my right hand, and
moving the right hand to the cursor keys isn't that much of a problem
either). I never felt that as a problem. What I DID find a problem is
that when I want to type something, I accidently triggered a command of
some sort.
I also have to maintain other peoples' code, where I do have to remove
and re-edit large blocks of code (Never happens with my own code<g>).
And I end up writing a lot of boilerplate stuff that is primarily
boring typing (You guys got all the interesting work).
Click to expand...

Hey, my core business is creating the plumbing code for others, so
some might say I get the boring work ;)
I know lots of people who use Emacs, but I guess there's a reason why
most go to third party editors for Visual Studio. But...I guess I
asked the question. Got the answer.
Click to expand...

I also think it's a matter of personal preference. I mean, some people
even deliberately chose VB.NET over C#, so why shouldn't there people
be chosing Emacs over another editor? ;)

FB


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
LLBLGen Pro website: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
M

Marc Gravell

Has *anyone* got a satisfactory list of the changes / fixes in SP1?
The only obvious things are web-projects (previously available as a
bolt-on) and SqlServer CE...

The KB did eventually surface, but was equally vague...

Marc
 
L

Lucian Wischik

Marc Gravell said:
Has *anyone* got a satisfactory list of the changes / fixes in SP1?
The only obvious things are web-projects (previously available as a
bolt-on) and SqlServer CE...
The KB did eventually surface, but was equally vague...
Click to expand...

http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?kbid=918526
- a list of all the hotfixes that are in SP1. I can't find any other
information about it yet but I'll keep looking. (the Microsoft campus
lost power for several days so I think things are a bit sluggish...)
 
C

Chris Nahr

http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?kbid=918526
- a list of all the hotfixes that are in SP1. I can't find any other
information about it yet but I'll keep looking. (the Microsoft campus
lost power for several days so I think things are a bit sluggish...)
Click to expand...

Thanks! I forgot about the power outage, that might explain the delay
(although I'd think Microsoft has its own backup generators).

Meanwhile, here are more detailed lists of fixes specific to VC++:
http://blogs.msdn.com/vcblog/archive/2006/06/22/643325.aspx
 
M

Michael D. Ober

Given the storn Seattle just had, I doubt any backup system other than full
generators (which can be really expensive and not justified for non-critical
systems) would have done the job.

Mike Ober.
 
A

aaron.kempf

not justified for non-crtitical systems?

just because the northwest has a power storm; that doesn't mean that MS
has an excuse to not have duoble/ triple redundancies elsewhere


your Cost / Benefit analysis is understanding the FACT that MS has
$30bn in cash in the bank.

A couple of extra million to have rackspace house a copy of your public
sites; that shouldn't be that big of a deal

-Aaron
 
A

aaron.kempf

I agree.. I have a laundry list of bugs in Microsoft Access that they
won't fix.

it pisses me off more than anything.

i've got to mandate that developers don't abbreviate 'create procedure
myname' as 'create proc myname' just because ms won't fix a minor bug

it just drives me crazy; I wish that Adobe, Business Objects / Crystal
Reports, Oracle, Sun, Redhat would all merge and make a viable
alternative.

As it is; MS puts out crappy ass software; they don't have enough
service packs anymore-- they just somehow subject us to patch after
patch after patch and they think that they're clever for not having so
many damn service packs

DOES THIS SERVICE PACK MAKE _HELP_ USABLE?
It takes 30 seconds to launch on my desktop at my last job; and I had 2
gb ram!

Is VB.net stable now?
Is reporting services development stable now?

-Aaron
 
F

Frans Bouma [C# MVP]

Marc said:
Has anyone got a satisfactory list of the changes / fixes in SP1?
The only obvious things are web-projects (previously available as a
bolt-on) and SqlServer CE...

The KB did eventually surface, but was equally vague...
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a complete list and I think no-one will ever see that
list. It's said (Scott Guthrie said this, I think) that this service
pack contains over 2200 fixes. That would mean over 2200 KB articles,
and this kb they now posted contains (didn't count them) not more than
50 or so.

FB

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lead developer of LLBLGen Pro, the productive O/R mapper for .NET
LLBLGen Pro website: http://www.llblgen.com
My .NET blog: http://weblogs.asp.net/fbouma
Microsoft MVP (C#)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

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