an one "fdisk" XP home operating system

D

daytona°

I would like to reload my XP Home O/S and I would like to start off "fdisk"
ing the H/D...this way I hope to remove ALL from the H/D. I know the CD asks
to format in either FAT or NTFS, but formatting does not do deep enough
JB
 
P

Pegasus

fdisk is a Win98 command. It does not exist under WinXP and
you do not need it anyway.

Boot your machine with your WinXP CD, then allow your
hard disk to be formatted when prompted.
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

I would like to reload my XP Home O/S and I would like to start off "fdisk"
ing the H/D...this way I hope to remove ALL from the H/D. I know the CD asks
to format in either FAT or NTFS, but formatting does not do deep enough


Just boot from the Windows XP CD (change the BIOS boot order if
necessary to accomplish this) and follow the prompts for a clean
installation (delete the existing partition by pressing "D" when
prompted, then create a new one).

That process (which people call "formatting") is actually a
combination of what FDISK used to do in Windows 9X and formatting.
 
P

Patty

I would like to reload my XP Home O/S and I would like to start off "fdisk"
ing the H/D...this way I hope to remove ALL from the H/D. I know the CD asks
to format in either FAT or NTFS, but formatting does not do deep enough
JB

If you want to completely clean the disk before a reinstall, try a program
like killdisk. It runs from a floppy or CD and will write 0s over the
whole drive. Some hard drive manufacturers also have programs to "kill"
the data on a disk. However, remember that if you format with XP Home and
then reinstall everything, most of what you had previously will be
re-written over and will be unrecoverable.

Fdisk is a Windows98 and prior command.

Patty
 
J

jameshanley39

and if so...HOW?

Thanks
JB

Yes
fdisk is not a verb in that there are different things you can do with
fdisk so it's ambiguous to say 'to fdisk'. But fdisk can work with
partitions whatever their OS e.g. win NT. EVen though the fdisk you
run is off a win 9x disk or boot cd.

whatever function of fdisk you refer to, it will work. So yes, you can
fdisk it !



FDISK doesn't see the operating system. It just works with partitions.

You can create partitions, delete partitions.

If you run fdisk then you see how. Because It's menu driven, simple to
use.

Just know that you have a primary partition, and if you want more,
you have an extended partition, and logical partitions within the
extended partition.
You may be able to create more primarys in fdisk, it wasn't done ..
There are other programs like partition magic where you can resize
partitions, create many primary partitions, convert the file system
between NTFS and FAT32, hide partitions. These are things fdisk
doesn't offer.

You can create and delete partitions within the windows xp setup cd.
You don't need fdisk. Maybe the win9X setup cd didn't have those
options do people used fdisk in that. Fdisk goes back to the days of
dos. It works.

And it has another useful switch on it. fdisk /mbr

Though you can use the Win XP (NT?) CD's FIXMBR and FIXBOOT. And i've
even seen a case where the NT commands fixed it and fdisk /mbr didn't.
THe NT ones also tell you if it's corrupted.


To start fdisk, get a win98 floppy disk, boot off it, and type FDISK
<ENTER>

You can run fdisk from a win98 boot cd. This is different to running
things off a win xp boot cd. With the win98 boot cd, it has an option
to go to "Command Prompt" . (a bit like win98 does when you press F8
when it says 'starting windows 98'). So choose to go to the command
prompt. Then you start fdisk
A:\>fdisk <ENTER>


partition magic is very useful. The rescue disks it asks you to create
when you install it as essentially a partition magic for DOS. It's
bigger than fdisk though. And it takes 2 or 3 floppy disks. (or a CD
if you know how to make a bootable CD from a bootable floppy disk -
nero can. 'nero express' i think, or another more configurable method
in nero)
 
P

Pegasus

See below.

and if so...HOW?

Thanks
JB

Yes
fdisk is not a verb in that there are different things you can do with
fdisk so it's ambiguous to say 'to fdisk'. But fdisk can work with
partitions whatever their OS e.g. win NT. EVen though the fdisk you
run is off a win 9x disk or boot cd.

whatever function of fdisk you refer to, it will work. So yes, you can
fdisk it !



FDISK doesn't see the operating system. It just works with partitions.

You can create partitions, delete partitions.

If you run fdisk then you see how. Because It's menu driven, simple to
use.

Just know that you have a primary partition, and if you want more,
you have an extended partition, and logical partitions within the
extended partition.
You may be able to create more primarys in fdisk, it wasn't done ..
There are other programs like partition magic where you can resize
partitions, create many primary partitions, convert the file system
between NTFS and FAT32, hide partitions. These are things fdisk
doesn't offer.

You can create and delete partitions within the windows xp setup cd.
You don't need fdisk. Maybe the win9X setup cd didn't have those
options do people used fdisk in that. Fdisk goes back to the days of
dos. It works.

And it has another useful switch on it. fdisk /mbr

Though you can use the Win XP (NT?) CD's FIXMBR and FIXBOOT. And i've
even seen a case where the NT commands fixed it and fdisk /mbr didn't.
THe NT ones also tell you if it's corrupted.


To start fdisk, get a win98 floppy disk, boot off it, and type FDISK
<ENTER>

You can run fdisk from a win98 boot cd. This is different to running
things off a win xp boot cd. With the win98 boot cd, it has an option
to go to "Command Prompt" . (a bit like win98 does when you press F8
when it says 'starting windows 98'). So choose to go to the command
prompt. Then you start fdisk
A:\>fdisk <ENTER>


partition magic is very useful. The rescue disks it asks you to create
when you install it as essentially a partition magic for DOS. It's
bigger than fdisk though. And it takes 2 or 3 floppy disks. (or a CD
if you know how to make a bootable CD from a bootable floppy disk -
nero can. 'nero express' i think, or another more configurable method
in nero)

=====================

Quite a chatty reply and several mistakes. Just to pick a few:

- But fdisk can work with partitions whatever their OS e.g. win NT.
=> There is no such thing as an NT or a Win98 partition. WinXP
recognises FAT/FAT32 partitions and NTFS partitions.
=> fdisk.exe cannot create NTFS partitions.
=> fdisk can delete some but not all NTFS partitions.

- whatever function of fdisk you refer to, it will work.
=> No, it won't - see above.
 
J

jameshanley39

Quite a chatty reply

I write to give complete information to the best of my knowledge.

I don't make my first move as guessing what the OP "really" wants to
do and telling him to do something else. I did indeed tell him he can
do it another way - using the win xp installation cd. But he asked
about doing it in fdisk. And that is what I told him first. I did not
duck the issue. And it's not bad to do it with fdisk, I have done with
no problems.

and several mistakes. Just to pick a few:

you clearly don't value correctness.
your post is only around 3 or 4 lines, it's not like you made much of
an effort considering you think I posted wrong information.

or maybe you just type really really slowly.
- But fdisk can work with partitions whatever their OS e.g. win NT.
=> There is no such thing as an NT or a Win98 partition.

yes there is . A partition with NT on it can be called an NT
partition, just like a computer with windows on it can be called a
windows box.

Just like a CD with windows xp installation on it can be called a
windows xp installation cd.
WinXP recognises FAT/FAT32 partitions and NTFS partitions.

Who on earth said it didn't. Not me.

=> fdisk.exe cannot create NTFS partitions.

Nobody creates NTFS partitions or FAT32 partitions. To say so is
misleading.

You create the partition, and then the partition is formatted as NTFS,
or formatted as FAT32.

It's not 'created' NTFS or FAT32.


Don't you remember in the days of , don't think back too long, windows
98, or msdos. You would create a partition with fdisk. Then, it isn't
formatted.
You had to format it.
A win9x boot disk had format.com on it which formatted it as FAT32.

Fdisk didn't create the FAT32 partition. It created the partition.

NTFS, like FAT32, is a file system. Just as the partition created by
fdisk is not inherently FAT32, so the partition created in fdisk is
not inherently NTFS.
And since it's not inherently FAT32, and not inherently any other file
system, it doesn't rule it out being NTFS.

You can create a partition in FDISK . Thte Win XP CD can then see the
partition and Format it as NTFS.

You can also create a partition in fdisk, format it as fat32 in dos
from the bootdisk, and install windows xp. And if you want, convert it
to NTFS.
I've done that before. Successfully I have heard of some security
issue. I only mention it here for completeness.
=> fdisk can delete some but not all NTFS partitions.

i've never run into an issue of fdisk not deleting a partition, and if
that happened, i'd be suprised if there was no way to get fdisk to
delete it.

Since you clearly know of such an issue, why don't you elaborate. It's
clearly not typical.

- whatever function of fdisk you refer to, it will work.

You see above

Your only argument that isn't proven wrong, is your claim, which you
haven't given any backing to. That there are some NTFS partitions that
fdisk can't delete. I'd like to see why, what extent that is true.

I have often deleted NTFS partitions with fdisk, and never had a
problem. You are talking of something unusual, which you haven't even
described.
 
P

Pegasus

- But fdisk can work with partitions whatever their OS e.g. win NT.
yes there is . A partition with NT on it can be called an NT
partition, just like a computer with windows on it can be called a
windows box.

You're entitled to use your own language, as long as you
clearly flag it as such. Current usage differentiates between
FAT/FAT32 and NTFS partitions. Each has its own
tight specification.
i've never run into an issue of fdisk not deleting a partition, and if
that happened, i'd be suprised if there was no way to get fdisk to
delete it.

Fine, run this little experiment:
1. Create an extended partition under WinXP.
2. Create an NTFS logical drive inside this partition.
3. Boot the machine with your Win9x boot disk.
4. Run fdisk and try to delete the logical drive, then the
extended partition.
5. Report the result here.
Since you clearly know of such an issue, why don't you elaborate. It's
clearly not typical.

It's not a question of "typical" or otherwise but a well-known
limitation of fdisk.exe. This is one of the reasons why it should
not be used for disks with NTFS drives.
Your only argument that isn't proven wrong, is your claim, which you
haven't given any backing to. That there are some NTFS partitions that
fdisk can't delete. I'd like to see why, what extent that is true.

See above.
I have often deleted NTFS partitions with fdisk, and never had a
problem. You are talking of something unusual, which you haven't even
described.

See above. Logical NTFS drives are not unusual; they are common.
 
J

jameshanley39

You're entitled to use your own language, as long as you
clearly flag it as such. Current usage differentiates between
FAT/FAT32 and NTFS partitions. Each has its own
tight specification.

windows xp partition also has a set meaning to anybody that ever
installed windows xp on a partition, and to anybody else that ever
knowingly installed an OS on a partition.

Fine, run this little experiment:
1. Create an extended partition under WinXP.
2. Create an NTFS logical drive inside this partition.
3. Boot the machine with your Win9x boot disk.
4. Run fdisk and try to delete the logical drive, then the
extended partition.
5. Report the result here.
you're right. But
No need for 5 steps,

you speak of deleting a logical NTFS partition.
MS discusses the errors.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q261473/

(indeed, I do recall these errors..)

"
"Cannot delete Extended DOS Partition while logical drives exist "

However, when you attempt to remove a logical drive in the extended
DOS partition from within the Fdisk utility, you may receive the
following error message:
No Logical Drives defined
"


It's not a question of "typical" or otherwise but a well-known
limitation of fdisk.exe. This is one of the reasons why it should
not be used for disks with NTFS drives.

or this issue
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/179144

But if you want to delete all your partitions, there's no risk, worst
case scenario, you get an error, if you run into this issue.


I've been in a situation where I had a load of computer hard drives to
wipe, well, make unbootable. My windows cd was damaged. I used fdisk
from a boot disk, to remove all partitions. It was very quick. Far
more practical than using windows disk manager. Or 3rd party software
that may be bigger and take longer to load.

Those machines probably just had a primary NTFS partition. A typical
set up.

That there are problematic issues related to fdisk and NTFS logical
partitions is no reason to rule it out as a tool. As I mentioned, I
put it to good use, on drives with an NTFS partition. .And it's on a
win98 boot disk.

A lot of people just have one partition, they had windows installed
simply.

The way you describe it, is NTFS - run away from FDISK, it'll ruin
everything. But as longa s you know the issue, it's not the case. And
if you're deleting your partitions, there's no risk. And if you've
only got a primary partition, it's fine . And if you've got a primary
and an extended, it's prob fine too. Only with a primary an extended
and 1+ logical partitions where a logical is NTFS, there are issues.

Fdisk can also have the issue of a limit on the size of a partition..
leading one to possibly resize the partition in partition magic. But
it's a basic tool, and it can be useful, and even if running into a
problem like that, you can get by with it. It's no reason to throw it
out. As I demonstrated, having a load of comps and needing to remove
the partitions from it - the only partition they had was a primary
NTFS partition - a common setup. I had no working win xp cd, I had 2
damaged ones. And it was probably quicker than a win xp cd anyway.

Your rule of don't use fdisk with an NTFS drive, is false for that
situation, whether you define drive as 'hard drive' or whether you
define it as partition.
It's only true for those issues / that issue.


<snip>
 
B

Bruce Chambers

daytona° said:
I would like to reload my XP Home O/S and I would like to start off "fdisk"
ing the H/D...this way I hope to remove ALL from the H/D. I know the CD asks
to format in either FAT or NTFS, but formatting does not do deep enough
JB


FDisk is an old MS-DOS utility that is neither available or needed
in WinXP. All legitimate WinXP installation CDs are bootable and have
the capability of deleting, creating, and formatting partitions.

Simply boot from the WinXP installation CD. You'll be offered the
opportunity to delete, create, and format partitions as part of the
installation process. (You may need to re-arrange the order of boot
devices in the PC's BIOS to boot from the CD.)

HOW TO Install Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;316941

http://www.michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 
L

Lil' Dave

Get the software from the hard drive manufacturer's website to write zeroes
to the drive. Place it on boot media (floppy or Cd). When done zeroing the
drive, reboot to the windows installation CD. Install a partition with the
XP install CD (it will format it automatically), then go from there for
installation of XP. Use NTFS, not FAT32 selection. Do not use quick.

Fdisk ended with Windows Millenium. Fdisk is a command for ms dos. Ms dos
resides as the base operating system for Windows Millenium/98SE/98/95/3.0

Dave
 
P

Pegasus

Get a reality check and stop defending the indefensible.
fdisk.exe is a DOS/Win9x tool. It has no place in the
world of Windows XP.
 
J

jameshanley39

Get a reality check and stop defending the indefensible.
fdisk.exe is a DOS/Win9x tool. It has no place in the
world of Windows XP.

In a situation with no windows xp cd, it was the best option.
I could've downloaded , a win xp 6 file or so, bootable disk set and
got to the recovery console and ran diskpart. That's more hassle than
necessary.
I could've put the hard drive whose partitions I wanted to delete, put
the hard drive into another machine running say win xp, and deleted
the partitions. But that's completely unnecessary, and far more hassle
than necessary. Especially for many computers.

I'll give you another example of where a Win9X boot disk is extremely
useful.
A disadvantage of NTFS is that you can't 'or with standard methods,
can't access(read/write to) the drive from a boot disk. Win XP has no
floppy boot disk that brings a command prompt up to access it. Using
the recovery console for that is a pain in the ass - it wasn't
designed for that.
Of course, NTFS has advantages over FAT32. So people use it.

And they deal with the problem.
One option is to put the hard drive in another machine that has Win
XP.
But one isn't always available. It's not such a nice option. Even if
you have a USB-IDE adaptor so you only have ot screw with one machine,
it's still more hassle than necessary.


There's a program called NTFS PRO, and free alternatives. They are for
DOS. You can put them on a Win 9X boot disk or a win9X bootable DOS
CD

This lets you read/write to an NTFS drive.

Freely.
Not in the very limited way the recovery console offers, bogged with
issues.


Since then. We have had Win XP PE.. So you can boot a kind of win xp
off a CD and access the drive. This is very useful, and NTFS Pro may
not be so necessary now.
But before Win XP PE, NTFS Pro was the only good way. Restoring a
function which was available with Win 9X on FAT, but lost with
NT"/"XP.

Windows XP isn't a world as you describe it. People even use linux
tools to deal with it. So it shouldn't be so hard to imagine people
using a tool from an earlier windows version, to deal with it. If Win
XP has no corresponding tool.


An operating system is not a world.
 
B

Bruce Chambers

Lil' Dave said:
Get the software from the hard drive manufacturer's website to write zeroes
to the drive.


Why? Just to kill time?

Place it on boot media (floppy or Cd). When done zeroing the
drive,....


Again, why? Some people have better things to do with their time.



--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:



They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -Benjamin Franklin

Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. -Bertrand Russell
 

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