An objective study that compares 3 OSs

[frogliver]

I bought a laptop with OEM Vista home Premium installed and have XP on my
desktop. I have to say I am not thrilled with the Vista but am willing to
tolerate its evolution in the same ways I tolerated XP's. So far I have been
fortunate with respect to the general operations of Vista as compared to
many of the posts, which has me thankful that I am using OEM rather than an
upgrade.

I wouldn't want to be in an MVP's shoes nowadays. If many of the posters
would remove their egos from the mix it would make things a lot easier for
them, as well as the rest of us who read this newsgroup for information, and
those of us who through long experience are thankful for having MVPs around
for their expertise and willingness to help.

It might be a good idea to set up an MS newsgroup entitled vista.rant &
vent, using mental health MVPs that could help ranters form rational
requests that treat the MVPs in a civil way for the benefit of all of us.
There is always room for critique, one of which is an objective comparison
study I found here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20070227/tc_pcworld/129410.

I am in agreement with the conclusions there, being unhappy with the UI, and
would like to see a response by Vista designers, upon whose shoulders the
results ought to justifiably rest, as well as any blame, and not on MVPs
here. The measures that place Vista back at a WIN98 level in some respects
are totally unacceptable to me, and make me glad that I am also keeping the
XP around.

I would like to see other users response to this article, pro or con. It
might help put things in perspective.

Frogman

 

[jim]

1st).... I am not afraid to say that almost all MVP's I have seen in the
newsgroups
are stupid.... only a few bright exceptions exist... FORTUNATELY!

2nd) what you just discovered I have been ranting about for MONTHS.
Yet everyone claimed that either I was delusional or a troll...

Of course I was correct... and with time more and more people will
understand.

This article just touched the tip of the iceberg.... I can go on and on
about the
terrible problems the vista gui has... but im fed up with snobs her who tell
me I am a troll just because I dare to criticize their god-OS....

I could also make a video that would crush vista, but pointing out all its
terrible problems, and put it on youtube...
but then it will go around the world and MS will sue me for slander.... I
dont like contreversy on such small things...

I don't care very much anyway.. new technology is coming that
will be so powerful that even a slugging slimy snail like vista will fly...

100 core CPU, solid state Hard disks, and much more... I prefer to ride the
wave of progress, but Im not dumb to not know
when something is designed well or not... I am lucky because I am able to
tweak and change an interface to my needs..
but most people use what they are given...

It was for them that I was protesting.. not me..... but MVP's and
knucklehead vistaboys in here don't understand....

 

[Justin]

"In Vista, a folder fades in, as if it appears out of nothing. It looks
great, but after 10 times you realize you're losing time waiting for that."

I certainly agree with that, I hate fade effects. I always turned the menu
fade effect off in XP.

However, I don't understand the rest of it. If I click on a menu it pops up
instantly. What's the problem there?

For example in XP, if you have a ton of apps installed and you click
programs in your start menu, it can take a while for the menu to finally
show itself. I don't notice that in Vista at any level.

Can others give there experience with this?

 

[Nita Klew]

Give it a month or two and you'll never go back. You'll find you can get
everything done much more quickly in Vista. Even the little things, like
being able to tap the Windows key and type something like:

from:susan about:contract

to find an e-mail message about contracts from someone named Susan, without
having to open any programs or navigate through any folders makes a huge
difference. Once you get the hang of it. You spend virtually zero time
looking for and navigating to stuff and more time actually doing stuff. It's
a huge improvement, and a harbinger of even better things to come.

The lack of drivers is a major pain. You either have to buy a machine with
it pre-installed, or make sure the machine you build has all the right
stuff. (I'm still waiting for motherboards with ReadyBoost right on the
board, or hybrid drives with that built in. That'll make a big difference.
I'd rather go that route then a flash drive. (Though my reasons for this
preference aren't based on anything factual. I just like the idea of not
having that hanging off some USB port).

But you're right about one thing. The vast majority of problems here are
from people who have no idea what they're doing and are just trying to guess
and hack their way through everything blindly. Then they get angry and their
guessing doesn't work. Also, there's a lot of unrealistic expectations about
Vista being like some kind of minor XP upgrade, where everything that worked
in XP works in Vista. And everything you could do in XP you can do, and do
do, the same way. But this is a much bigger change that that. This is one of
those major changes that comes along every 10 or 15 years and causes all
kinds of headaches. But we need those kinds of changes, and we've been due
for one for a while. It's a painful transition, but definitely a good one.

 

[Justin]

2nd) what you just discovered I have been ranting about for MONTHS.
Yet everyone claimed that either I was delusional or a troll...

If you say you are having a specific problem then no one has any right to
disqualify your problem. They may have their own opinion that Vista might
not be at fault. Would it be absurd to to blame your video drivers for a
poor 3D experience? As I mentioned in my own post, I don't have these
problems. Yet I admit there are "waste of time" features.

Since some people don't have this problem and other do then it's very easy
to blame hardware or the software that runs it (drivers).

I could also make a video that would crush vista, but pointing out all its
terrible problems, and put it on youtube...

You should! I'd like to see "visually" what you've found.

but then it will go around the world and MS will sue me for slander.... I

Making that video and performing slander are two different things. Would
you be able to make the video without being slanderous? More people would
take you seriously if you did.

 

[Justin]

I just got done with a very long flame war about this. I said all the same
things. What you claim here are my exact findings after having given 5
employees Vista for a while then giving them XP back. They all wanted Vista
returned to them.

So, this further proves that some people have these problems and some
obviously do not.

Since we're talking about Aero, I still point my finger at drivers.

 

[jim]

from:susan about:contract

what a pile of crap! How many people are going to use that? lol

First of all you should learn to organize with logic not depend on a stupid
service that is working 24/7 in the background indexing your stuff....
Indexing is a stupid technology that does not have very much time left in
its lifespan...

it takes up resources and its horrible to see your hard drive flashing when
nothing is going on on the computer... I CALL THAT A NIGHTMARE!

You are stupid.. there is no other explaination.. nothing in vista makes you
navigate faster... I dare you ... lets make a race.. XP is faster, far
faster!

HELP I AM IN A NEWSGROUP WITH DELUSIONAL SHEEPLE THAT FOLLOW BLINDLY
WHATEVER MS TELLS THEM IS "GOOD"

AAAARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!! Im out of here.. I have seen enough stupidity for
one day!

 

[jim]

You mean I cant call vista stupid in the video then?
I cant do it! Sorry.. my opinion of vista would leak.. I would not be able
to just give the facts cold and without emotion...

And for what purpose would I do that? To satisfy my ego that I have been
correct all along about the problems with vista? I don't care really about
that...
To drive people away from vista? Im not sure that its the best thing to do
even if it has flaws...

MS will not care about the video... and they wont change anything because of
it... so it will create controversy without doing any good.

So there is no real reason. No motive for me to do it....

I prefer to focus on positive stuff... that video would be negative and this
is not what
I want to show the world.

So nothing is to be gained by it...

Now perhaps I could make a video on how to customize vista for better
functionality and speed... that is positive...

 

[jim]

Feed them hamburgers and coke for 5 days.. they wont want to go back to
greenbeans and salads...

So hamburgers are better? lol

I have a bad feeling in my stomach whenever I sit in front of a vista
machine..
its repulsive!

 

[Justin]

You mean I cant call vista stupid in the video then?

You can. That's not slander. That's you opinion. But if you did that, the
average person would not take you seriously.

And for what purpose would I do that? To satisfy my ego that I have been
correct all along about the problems with vista? I don't care really about
that...

Um....no. To show us what problems you have found without text causing poor
communication in NGs.

So there is no real reason. No motive for me to do it....

ok

 

[Justin]

You are stupid.. there is no other explaination.. nothing in vista makes
you

Didn't we just get done discussing slander? I hope you don't wonder why no
one listens to you. It should be pretty obvious.

 

[Justin]

Feed them hamburgers and coke for 5 days.. they wont want to go back to
greenbeans and salads...

So hamburgers are better? lol

If it made them healthier, then yes. If it made them unhealthy then no.

I think you failed to pick up on the fact the the employees became more
productive (healthier).

Does that clear things up?

 

[jim]

I don't think that your claim is true...

Vista has many flaws that makes using the interface counter productive.

Give me 30 minutes with those guys so I can tell them a few things..
then they will be far more productive on XP than on vista...

These are simple things that most people dont know.. but a power user like
me knows.
These speed up tasks far more than a glassy interface. (that strains the
eyes anyway!)

You see we have a far more powerful computer, and its in our heads..
yet most don't know how to use it very well....

 

[Justin]

I don't think that your claim is true...

Well, that's your right to think as such but just remember, what you're
doing and saying right here is the same exact thing you ranted about earlier
with MVP's and so forth.

These speed up tasks far more than a glassy interface.

I don't think anyone ever claimed that "glass" has improved productivity.
I'd like to see proof of that one.

 

[Pipboy]

It was for them that I was protesting.. not me..... but MVP's and
knucklehead vistaboys in here don't understand....

No, you don't understand that Vista has more than just the Aero GUI.

 

[Stephan Rose]

If you say you are having a specific problem then no one has any right to
disqualify your problem. They may have their own opinion that Vista might
not be at fault. Would it be absurd to to blame your video drivers for a
poor 3D experience? As I mentioned in my own post, I don't have these
problems. Yet I admit there are "waste of time" features.

Since some people don't have this problem and other do then it's very easy
to blame hardware or the software that runs it (drivers).



You should! I'd like to see "visually" what you've found.

There you go!

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Justin]

What did that have to do with the issue at hand? Anyway, I've seen that
already. No doubt some of those are very useful however most of them, in
fact, are more of the time wasting garbage effects the OP was talking about.
If I had to constantly wait for those effects I would get frustrated
quickly.

That GUI has a lot of UIF!

 

[Stephan Rose]

What did that have to do with the issue at hand? Anyway, I've seen that
already. No doubt some of those are very useful however most of them, in
fact, are more of the time wasting garbage effects the OP was talking
about. If I had to constantly wait for those effects I would get
frustrated quickly.

That GUI has a lot of UIF!

Actually I use that GUI and no, it actually doesn't waste time.

I can switch between desktops via the rotating cube faster than it would
take me to do it via the buttons in the taskbar with my mouse. Time to
rotate the cube included.

The effect that lets me fold a window like a piece of paper and look behind
it is something that is actually quite useful when I want to look at
something that I know is behind my window. More useful than transparency as
I get a 100% unobstructed view of what I want to see. No waiting time here
as it moves at the speed I drag the mouse...if it's too slow, my own fault.
=)

Fully zooming out on the cube and rotating it manually, as the sentence
already implies, is done manually. It's as fast or as slow as I want it to
be.

You do have the small animations when opening / closing windows. Even with
those animations I can switch windows faster than in XP since they simply
respond faster than XP does with no animation at all.

I can alt tab instantly too despite the animation as it only runs *while*
the alt key is held down. So if I want to switch to another window in less
than 10 milliseconds, no problem! And unless I hold down the tab key, the
animation finishes faster than I can even physically press the tab key
again.

Bottom line, it is very well done and extremely fast.

And as to what does it have to do with the issue at hand?

The OP wanted to create a video that crushes the vista UI. Well, this very
window right here I think does the job very nicely.

--
Stephan Rose
2003 Yamaha R6

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[Shane Nokes]

Really, you a power user?

Fine let's see what you've got then that will make things so much faster.

I've got to hear these amazing things. After that I'll show you how to do
those same things faster and better in Vista

 

[Shane Nokes]

Yes yes, who indeed.

I mean sure there's no one out there with a content server that names their
files obscure things on purpose but has smart tags embedded.

No, no one does that ever *rolls eyes*

You do realize that Vista not only indexes the file names but the contents
as well right?

That way if you have a few large documents archived that have somewhat
similar names that you can find which one you need just from that search bar
right?

Also content indexing isn't going anywhere, it's the basis of ANY file
system.

Note the name, retard, FILE SYSTEM. Who'd of thunk it was about files.
*rolls eyes*


Now what you are talking about is exposable useful database content indexing
which is what is in Vista.

It merely takes advantage of the MFT capabilities of NTFS and actually makes
it much more useful.

As I stated before, you show me your "Power User" tricks and I will show you
how to do them faster, not only in XP, but in Vista as well.