An extra point

[barnesds]

A lot of folks are like me I think - who bought low-end cards.

The Connexant MPEG2 chip sits on top of the Brooktree 8x8 chip so when you
record using Intervideo WinDVR at MPEG2 you do not need to re-encode unless
you are foolish for any MPEG services. I do find with my card I capture at
DV using Panasonic DV for cap using VirtualDub, then using the transcode
function of WinDVR to translate into MPEG.

Without support driver for this card - I could never consider Vista. Which
is a very basic Combo card of an Mpeg2 Chip from Connexant and an AVI card
from Brooktree - the 8x8.

Most folks using really true Analog to Digital consider ATI- aill-in-
wonder-Cards toys as well as any other software solutions.

I just wish you would create a true driver for us folks so we could use
Vista

 

[Dale]

I know what you mean. I am still ticked off that my VT-50 won't work with
Vista Aero.

Dale

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Have toy contacted the card manufacturer and asked about Vista drivers?
The card manufacturer and not Microsoft makes the drivers.

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"Have you contacted..."

 

[Mike Hall - MS MVP Windows Shell/User]

Contact the manufacturer of the card and question them about Vista driver
progress..

 

[barnesds]

Have toy contacted the card manufacturer and asked about Vista drivers?
The card manufacturer and not Microsoft makes the drivers.

I have to answer based on history. I have a printer that Microsoft has
decided to support for years. The only printer I have connected to my
machine is a Panasonic 24-pin Dot-Matrix. I use it daily. I print about
20-30 pieces daily, and if you are not using photographs, but rather
clip-art, the ribbon lasts on average one year. I could use a Laser or
Ink-Jet and replace the part every month.

Printing is also a skill - beyond computers - or different skill. So you
just fudge the negative a hair - in computers called smudge - end result
the finished product using Offset printing looks so close only a trained
eye can view the difference. Nothing equals Letterpress from new type,
but few people know it. Cost is an issue when you use something all the
time.

Microsoft supports that printer even though Panasonic no longer does -
because the base of folks using them have them everywhere.

Microsoft made a decision only to support certain Video Cards or more
correctly worded Capture Cards for Media Center Edition. When the base
of folks using such cards thought they were software only cards and folks
wanting quality purchased and had hardware-based cards.

Microsoft made a mistake just as they did when they decided not to
support the Panasonic Printers for a second during the original 98
release. Intervideo has been a Microsoft Partner for years. But
Intervideo took time to support all the Connexant MPEG2 Chips floating
around on top of the B8x8 Chips and you cut them from the loop unless
they were chips from ATI which are software-based, you cut your nose off
to spite your face.

The manufacture is some company in Taiwan, but InterVideo software makes
it run. Microsoft made a marketing mistake. ATI cards are great for
video - but suck when it comes to capture. Toys.

In my mind it is another Panasonic mistake. Intervideo writes a driver -
cool. If Microsoft writes the driver - cool. But if neither do - a
Panasonic mistake and I will use Linux when support for XP no longer
available. But to go to Vista now - no.



..

 

[barnesds]

I have to answer based on history. I have a printer that Microsoft
has decided to support for years. The only printer I have connected
to my machine is a Panasonic 24-pin Dot-Matrix. I use it daily. I
print about 20-30 pieces daily, and if you are not using photographs,
but rather clip-art, the ribbon lasts on average one year. I could
use a Laser or Ink-Jet and replace the part every month.

Printing is also a skill - beyond computers - or different skill. So
you just fudge the negative a hair - in computers called smudge - end
result the finished product using Offset printing looks so close only
a trained eye can view the difference. Nothing equals Letterpress
from new type, but few people know it. Cost is an issue when you use
something all the time.

Microsoft supports that printer even though Panasonic no longer does -
because the base of folks using them have them everywhere.

Microsoft made a decision only to support certain Video Cards or more
correctly worded Capture Cards for Media Center Edition. When the
base of folks using such cards thought they were software only cards
and folks wanting quality purchased and had hardware-based cards.

Microsoft made a mistake just as they did when they decided not to
support the Panasonic Printers for a second during the original 98
release. Intervideo has been a Microsoft Partner for years. But
Intervideo took time to support all the Connexant MPEG2 Chips floating
around on top of the B8x8 Chips and you cut them from the loop unless
they were chips from ATI which are software-based, you cut your nose
off to spite your face.

The manufacture is some company in Taiwan, but InterVideo software
makes it run. Microsoft made a marketing mistake. ATI cards are
great for video - but suck when it comes to capture. Toys.

In my mind it is another Panasonic mistake. Intervideo writes a
driver - cool. If Microsoft writes the driver - cool. But if neither
do - a Panasonic mistake and I will use Linux when support for XP no
longer available. But to go to Vista now - no.



.

I have a decent enough machine for Vista. A P4 w/1GB memory and ATI
video card w/256MB VRAM - 2400Mhz, but it it cannot handle my Video
Capture Card which works perfect under XP. It will handle it using a WDM
driver at 352x240, but full screen the drivers suck.

To support only ATI or nVidia for video capture and block Intervideo from
creating a Vista driver for the Connexant Chip sucks. Who wants to buy a
piece of junk?

People will ask me why their things do not look as good as mine do - and
I will tell the truth. Microsoft does not want it to look as good. You
will need to give up Vista and run XP for quality.

Unfortunate, but true

 

[Dale]

I tend to agree with you about the problems with audio/video quality in
Vista. Most of that is DRM related. DRM sucks. That is why I keep an XP
Media Center 2005, SP2, WMP 10 machine on my network but off the Internet
completely. As long as it is possible to do so, that is what I'll do.

DRM in Vista could mean the end of the HTPC - and hopefully, if the DRM
doesn't change, it will mean the end of the HTPC.

Dale

 

[Tinman]

I tend to agree with you about the problems with audio/video quality in
Vista. Most of that is DRM related. DRM sucks. That is why I keep an XP
Media Center 2005, SP2, WMP 10 machine on my network but off the Internet
completely. As long as it is possible to do so, that is what I'll do.

DRM in Vista could mean the end of the HTPC - and hopefully, if the DRM
doesn't change, it will mean the end of the HTPC.

Hopefully you meant to add, "the end of the HTPC will mean the end of DRM."

 

[Tinman]

Printing is also a skill - beyond computers - or different skill. So you
just fudge the negative a hair - in computers called smudge - end result
the finished product using Offset printing looks so close only a trained
eye can view the difference.

If you're claiming unreduced dot-matrix source material looks like offset
printing, I'd sure like to know what business you are in. And I thought the
days of 300 dpi laser sourced material were long gone...

Nothing equals Letterpress from new type,
but few people know it.

This from the guy using a dot-matrix printer daily for documents (as opposed
to billing/NCR forms)? Letterpress sucks for screens/graphics, but I would
imagine that doesn't matter much in the dot-matrix printing world.

Cost is an issue when you use something all the
time.

Then why is it, aside from NCR forms and other niche usage, dot matrix
printers have all but disappeared?

Microsoft supports that printer even though Panasonic no longer does -
because the base of folks using them have them everywhere.

The day Panasonic decided not to support the printer it began its life on
"borrowed time."

Microsoft made a decision only to support certain Video Cards or more
correctly worded Capture Cards for Media Center Edition.

I definitely understand the issue with HTPC usage, but don't for a minute
see the correlation to dot-matrix printing. This is more a case of DRM, not
obsolescence.

Microsoft made a mistake just as they did when they decided not to
support the Panasonic Printers for a second during the original 98
release.

Yes, there was rioting in the streets. I remember it well.

Intervideo has been a Microsoft Partner for years. But
Intervideo took time to support all the Connexant MPEG2 Chips floating
around on top of the B8x8 Chips and you cut them from the loop unless
they were chips from ATI which are software-based, you cut your nose off
to spite your face.

I don't know what specific device you are referring to but Hauppauge cards
use Conexant chips and they do indeed support Vista. I think this is how it
should be: manufacturers create drivers for their products. I for one don't
want to pay for every odd-ball driver under the sun.

In my mind it is another Panasonic mistake. Intervideo writes a driver -
cool. If Microsoft writes the driver - cool. But if neither do - a
Panasonic mistake and I will use Linux when support for XP no longer
available. But to go to Vista now - no.

What makes you think you will have better driver support under Linux, all
things considered?

 

[Dale]

That too. I would just hate to see, in the long run, DRM be financially
beneficial to any company.

But what I think is going to happen is that soon, you won't be able to buy a
DVD or a CD. You'll rent them either by a monthly flat rate or
pay-per-view. And if they could find a way to count the number of eyes
watching a movie, they'd charge pay-per-view-per-person - with no discount
for having two one-eyed people in the audience.

When George Bush promised 7 years ago that, in 7 years, broadband Internet
would be available throughout all of America, even rural America (another
broken promise), it wasn't because he cared that I don't have broadband
Internet in the sticks where I live. It was because once that condition
exists, the market will be prime for dropping all physical media for movies
and music. If they did that now, the uproar would be just too loud.

Dale

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

Microsoft does not really choose or not choose to support any of the
hardware you mentioned since Microsoft does not make that hardware.
If older hardware still works there are a few reasons why that could be.
The manufacturer submitted a driver that supports that hardware.
Whether that particular hardware was the intent or not is not relevant.
The driver may have been for other hardware but it also works with the
older.
If it works in Vista somebody outside Microsoft did something that caused
the driver to be included in Vista.

 

[barnesds]

Have toy contacted the card manufacturer and asked about Vista drivers?
The card manufacturer and not Microsoft makes the drivers.

Microsoft has been my buddy for years - so I am mad and not mad, I have
ran NT4.0 when my system not 100% equal. Win2000 ran and it just ran. My
Card has ran since NT4 and runs and runs. Just like my computer does
today. And I am used to quality from Microsoft.

Microsoft made a marketing mistake when it decided only to support junk.

ATI and Nvidia are junk because they looked like hardware. It was a
marketing mistake.

Lots of folks have been able to have Media Center Edition for years, but
you would not let Intervideo support so with Vista it is the same - just
another junk. With MCE that was an option, but now Vista is supposed to be
an OS - just junk forcing inferior product.

bye

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

"only to support junk"
Microsoft and Windows Vista only support what the hardware manufacturers
write the drivers for.
If the "junk" hardware manufacturers are the only ones who update the
drivers, that is all that will be supported.
So a better way to put it:
"Only the junk manufacturers have worked to have their hardware supported in
Vista."
Microsoft gave all hardware manufacturers the same opportunity.
Remember the hardware manufacturers and not Microsoft are responsible to
make the hardware they manufacturer compatible with the operating system.

However what one considers junk another may consider treasure.

 

[barnesds]

Microsoft does not really choose or not choose to support any of the
hardware you mentioned since Microsoft does not make that hardware.
If older hardware still works there are a few reasons why that could
be. The manufacturer submitted a driver that supports that hardware.
Whether that particular hardware was the intent or not is not
relevant. The driver may have been for other hardware but it also
works with the older.
If it works in Vista somebody outside Microsoft did something that
caused the driver to be included in Vista.

With due respect - Microsoft chooses to support equipment, To me it makes
no difference, but companies will not have the time and effort for
something not Microsoft Certified. If the hardware is different than the
test monitor at Redmond, then Cerification does not happen.

Microsoft imposes standards and by choice selects equipment. Even though
it is inferior equipment - it stands by its man. No person who uses
equipment for Video Capture would ever use ATI or nVidia as they are junk,
but Microsoft stands by because in Redmond a person had a junk
configuration and Microsoft said that is the only configuration we will
issue Certs for. Still junk.

Microsoft makes mistakes and you need to let people correct it. At the
moment no person using video heavy will ever use Vista as it is forcing
people to use Junk equipment.

bye

 

[Jupiter Jones [MVP]]

The hardware manufacturers choose whether their hardware is supported or not
and not Microsoft.
Since the manufacturer writes the drivers for the hardware they choose, they
are making the choice for their customers.
That is one reason it is stated here and other places to contact the
hardware manufacturer and make your needs known.

As far as certified, again, the manufacturer initiates the process, which
costs the manufacturer $.

What has the manufacturer of your card said when you asked about Vista
compatibility?